The Smiley Smile Message Board

Recently been talking to, y'know, someone about, ah, stuff (as you do) and they offered this opinion:

"Thank the Lord for Craig Slowinski.  The man is a saint and a gem."

True dat.

C-Man is indeed awesome.

I feel embarrassed, because I haven't got a clue as to what this thread is about... say AGD, you didn't take the produce of Owsley by any chance? So that you'll start to agree with Tobelman shortly?  ???

Andrew's being mysterious and confounding as ever, and I propose we take guesses at what he's alluding to.

My bet is that C-Man's had the completed SMiLE album master tapes in a box under his bed since 1967 and only handed it to Mark & Alan last week, just after they'd finalised the Capitol box set.

To their dismay, C-Man's treasure trove revealed not only the fact that they'd second-guessed most of it and got it wrong, but also that TWOTS was the lead single, that several hitherto-unknown Wilson/Love compositions made made the grade, and that the Rock Me Henry version of Surf's Up, complete with yodelling backing vocals and "ma-ma-ma-ma-ma-ma" tag, was to have been included as a bonus 7" 33.3rpm single, ala Mount Vernon & Fairway, a format Brian of course returned to five years later.

The phrase "Thank the Lord for Craig Slowinski. The man is a saint and a gem," was Brian's response to the news. He never wanted SMILE to be released and is grateful to C-Man for holding out for so long.

 :lol Wicked!  :hat

Nah...the only produce my bro has ingested was some old rutabagas I sent him for his past birthday.

Either:

a) Craig has explained the Zen interpretation to AGD and now he "gets it" :)

b) Craig has located the Inside Pop reels in time to be included in the box set.

c) Craig has a contact at Capitol and Unleash the Love is getting a Fourth Quarter 2011 release.

Oh... I'd just as pleased with a DeLuxe double disk set of Unleash The Love as I would with that SS box, which is vastly overrated IMHO anyway. Gimme da Lovester any time.


It's Turban Time!

Another tee-shirt slogan from the Don! You should go into business  ;D

P.S.

Does anyone have the faintest notion what AGD is going on about?



Is this some Smile Sessions related nugget that you're going to torture us with, or something else entirely?!  :brow

Is it like me to be obtuse, in any way opaque, at any time less than entirely transparent ?  ::)

Patience. All will become clear. Soon. Ish.

Ah, now I get it. Craig runs a dating agency and he's got you hooked up with a lady hairdresser & beard trimmer!

Goodbye Kenny Rogers, hello Phil Collins!

 :ahh :banana :woot

I try to read AGD's stuff backwards, to no avail. Not even a message from Satan himself.

That's Natas to you, buddy!

I find it worrying that AGD is deeply into mysticism these days. What's he up to? A TM phase? Hopping included?

The smile you send out will indeed return to you.

Allegedly.

Or if that's a little too arcane, some zen humor:

The Dalai Lama walks into Domino's Pizza and says "make me one with everything".

:lol

The Dalai Lama is not amused. :I

He told Mike, to tell you , Yes He is.

Craig is, indeed, a great guy. 

And recently he's been so darn busy immersed in important projects that he's had little time to post on this board.

This is the best thread ever, even if I have no idea what the hell is going on.  :lol

I'm not a saint or a gem, just a hard-working guy.  An entirely embarrased one.

I was told to say that. You can probably figure out by whom.  ;D

Still true, mind.

You're in direct connect with Brian?  Not on twitter, fer sure.

Pretty sure Brian didn't say that about me.  Probably doesn't know me from Adam.

Define "direct".

They think you're Tandyn Almer!  :lol

This thread belongs in an episode of The West Wing..

Very mysterious

Oh wow lol

Before I'm accused of homophobia again I am quite sure AGD took that as it was meant to be taken.

Not that direct.  :thud

I'm guessing it has to do with the sequencing of SMiLE. Guessing.

Perhaps we could ask Andrew questions that have a yes / no answer.

Andrew.....

Is it to do with the sequencing?

In other words, he's the anti-Brian :lol

I guess AGD can not answer specific questions but may answer in a round-a-bout way so I will try this.

Statement: It would be nice if the boxset has the FH cover. That would make us happy!

Question: Will we be happy with the cover of the boxset AGD? (note no reference to what the cover is)

 ;D

The use of Frank's artwork would make everyone happy (especially Frank): like I've been saying since day one, if not slightly before - thanks, ACJ - to put this out without the iconic cover is unthinkable, and if it's purely finance that's preventing it then hell, Brian, pay him out of your own pocket. This thing needs to be done right and, with all due respect to Mark London for his sterling work on the BWPS, there's only one cover, only one booklet.

Er... how did we get here from me relating an observation that c-man is one fine dude ?  ::)

This explains why he always calls me C-Man...

:lol

I get the impression no one is going to spill what this thread is about. Fair enough, but can some kind soul 'in the know' confirm whether this is/isn't Smile related and whether it may/may not be of significant interest regarding the Sessions release?

I'd hate to get all excited then find three weeks down the line that someone has the inside scoop on Brian recording a song from Mulan on his upcoming solo album  :deadhorse (not entirely the right use of that Smiley, but it might make sense if you've seen Mulan).

Yes... and probably not.

Well, I asked for it didn't I?!  :)

Aye, a curious thread that's had me curiositifising for days…

I reckon Craig's been asked to verify certain sessions detail and has run it by AGD for double-verification, which has given AGD an insight into release schedules and potential tracklists but he's sworn to secrecy and will, if he lets anything slip, have to hunt us all down, one by one, and kill us.

Just like he did with everyone on the original Cabinessence board…










… and yes, he knows who you are, and that you're still out there, and YOU"RE NEXT!

AGD is an employee of Blackwater, then. I though so all along.

Good reasoning. This would make a lot of sense, although why would AGD answer that it was 'probably not' of significant interest regarding the Sessions release? Surely, any track info would be of paramount interest to us all ....  :brow

I thought he said "probably not" about the Mulan song?

I woke up with a horses head! Starting to get a tad worried

"Probably Not…" is also the name of a London-based Irish music group, formerly known as "Probably Not a Wardrobe" for reasons I've long-since forgotten. This could be a red herring on Andrew's part, or on mine.

Oh God, AGD's probably rubbing his hands with glee at all the confusion this is causing!

My original question was "Can some kind soul 'in the know' confirm whether this is/isn't Smile related and whether it may/may not be of significant interest regarding the Sessions release?", to which AGD replied "Yes .... and probably not"

He might have meant Brian is 'probably not' recording a Mulan song for his Disney album, but I think he was just addressing my main questions above.

Ha ha! Was it singing songs from Mulan!?

Have a bowl of oats and quit complaining – there's fields to be ploughed and carts to be drawn.

Son, you shouldn't advertise your sexual conquests on the internet, especially if they're that ugly.

Sorry, both my comments were in regard to the first paragraph: as regards to "Mulan" songs being on the Disney album... I'm flattered you think I might know.

 :lol

Damn. Rumbled.  :ahh

Better than sleeping with the Fishes/\..

Uh-oh, it sounds like Frank Holmes' artwork still may not be a done deal.  Do we need to take up a collection?

Yes, let's collect every existent copy of Franks' cover and destroy them. Then Capitol will have to buy the artwork, knowing everone, everywhere will buy the box for the artwork.

Well he does seem to be somewhat irritating about it - didn't he make an eye-watering offer for it''s use on BWPS, hence the use of London?

His point is very simple - he wasn't paid for the work he did in 1966, he wants paying now.

BTW, the reason the prints he was selling included a Capitol copyright wasn't because they did indeed pay him back then, but because said prints of the front cover included the bands name and the album title, which were the work of the Capitol art department.*


[* this occurred to me maybe 20 seconds before I wrote it]

At all? - For some reason I thought they had given him a flat fee of some kind but royalties weren't forthcoming because, well, it never made it into shops.

nothing, nada, zilch, zero

If I accurately recall his account, he asked Brian's people how his artwork would be used, how many copies expected to sell, etc. and got no answers.  So he made an opening offer of $50,000.  End of negotiations.

I assume experts will clarify if I'm mistaken.

I know zilch about remuneration in these matters. But $ 50,000 seems very cheap to me.

According to Mark London in 2004, Frank was paid $2,000 by Brian back in 1966.   This, among other things pretty much killed Frank working on BWPS in 2004. 

Man, are my facts off. Thanks all....

According to Mark London in 2004, Frank was paid $2,000 by Brian back in 1966.   This, among other things pretty much killed Frank working on BWPS in 2004.

And of course Mark London is an authority on this matter why?
If Brian personally paid Frank $2,000, he's never mentioned it; and I've never heard Frank mention, nor seen any mention, for Frank being paid by Capitol.  

Umm, Mark was THERE at the preliminaries for the art for BWPS.  Initially worked with Frank.  And then was privy to the "negotiations".  Simple.

Frank to Mark:  "Brian already paid me $2000 for this cover, I'd sure like to be paid again, for doing nothing else" 

Yeah, right, sure. I wasn't there, of course....

Actually, it is a little more involved than that...but I won't bore you with the facts about the merchandising percentage questions and the lawyers... plus the parts that Jean Sievers and Melinda played in the "negotiations"...;D

Interesting that Frank - who btw has also claimed he was never paid at all for his work - says that he was paid by Brian, and not Capitol. Can you say "legal minefield" ?

"50 Years of Legal Minefield"...great name for the next greatest hits set!

Shrikes… without Frank's artwork this box takes a credibility knock for sure. I'd be happy to wait 'til next year or the year after if it means there's chance for successful negotiations over this, if all this speculation  –  and I'm assuming it's speculation  –  is true.

With all due respect to Mark London, there's only one possible artist to associate with the original SMiLE project.

Having eh box set in anything but Frank's art would be like the remastered Sgt Pepper coming out in a Tracey Ermin-designed sleeve*.





* which would probably be a spent condom, or a stained tent floor…

Hey, I'm a huge fan of Frank's work, and I'll be sorely disappointed if it's not used in this release, but I'm not getting any younger.  I, for one, will NOT be happy to wait until 2013 for the Smile box.   Sure, a delay of a month or two would be fine.   But a year or two?  I must part company with you on that one.   

I'm hoping that sensible minds prevail on both sides and mutually agreeable terms are reached... soon.

Yes, let's hope for sensiblity where there once was none.( Capitol/ BBs) 
Let's really hope they don't use a Mark London cover.  ( nothing personal)

Agree with you 100%. Nothing personal on my part either.

If it means I have to wait a couple more months while they get the deal locked down for the Frank Holmes artwork, I'll wait. No problem at all. They need to get this thing right. Frank's a great guy and he deserves this, and so does Brian and the fans.

Thirded. I'd be surprised if they'd commision new artwork for this though. If Frank's image isn't used I suspect we'll get the Smile type along the same lines as the 78. It could be classy, as that Smile type has a lot of personality, but of course it would not be a patch on them using Frank's image.

What are the chances we get the original booklet somewhere in this? I guess the pages may be scattered throughout the 60 page book. Would be great if it's there as an insert inside the vinyl (Actually, was the original booklet planned as an insert? I just presumed this). Or with the CDs if they did a Japan mini LP thing and reproduced a miniature booklet for that? Oooh, so much potential for disappointment with this!

Given that the original booklet was Frank's artwork and BBs photos; and also given that Capitol /EMI has decided not to use Frank's artwork for the box, I'd say there's no chance of getting the orignal booklet.
 But I have to believe we'll be getting lots of photos.

Hang about, is it official that Capitol/EMI aren't using Frank's artwork? When did that happen?!

I haven't heard it from Capitol; I was told today, by someone that seems pretty solid with their info, that someone else( other than Frank) is doing the artwork for the box

Care to show me your source for that ?

Is it possible that someone else is doing the overall design of the set, but UTILIZING FH's original art? Or is your source implying (or stating outright) that FH is out completely?

Can I just say that I've never liked Frank's artwork?

Iconic, yes, and historically accurate -- so I agree it would be nice to see it in the boxed set.

But I've always found it rather amateurish looking, and kind of tacky compared to the sophisticated music from the sessions.

I'm not that much of a fan of the London design either -- I love the embossed cover, but the old-engraving-clip-art stuff inside misses the point almost as much as Frank's work.

[Edit]
 I've always felt there was some visual aspect to the music that no one has quite found yet. In some ways, I find the cover of Smiley Smile the most appealing of all. But that's a finished album ...

Michael Vosse talking about the Smile Shop cover in 1969...

That's why they had something as dumb as the "Smile Shop" on the cover. And everybody who knew anything about graphics, and about art, thought that the cover was not terribly well done . . . but Brian knew better: he was right. It was exactly what he wanted, precisely what he wanted. And he stuck to it until they went into the Smiley Smile thing, by which time the whole idea had collapsed anyway.


It is going to be incredibly disappointing if the Smile shop cover isn't used.  Having the booklet illustrations would be great, too, but their absence wouldn't be as hard to take.  For all these years, most of us have operated under the assumption that an official Capitol release would feature the original cover.   To finally do an official release without the iconic cover will be a huge mistake.  Of course, I (and undoubtedly all of the other hardcore fans here) will still buy whatever they release... no matter what's on the cover.  That's not the point.  Sure, the world won't end if we get a different cover, but I and many others will feel a bit cheated.  Also, I wonder if the lack of the Smile Shop cover won't subtly contribute to the perception that what we're finally getting isn't the REAL Smile, after all.  A picture is worth a thousand words.  When anyone who knows anything about the Beach Boys' Smile expects it to have a certain cover, but it comes out with a different cover, might it not plant a seed of doubt about the validity of the whole enterprise?

I agree.  Without Holmes' artwork, the box will always be historically deficient.  But if reasonable terms can't be reached soon after good faith negotiations, it's time to move on.  And if it were a project budget decision of paying ridiculous $$ for the artwork vs. paying a collector for some unbooted gem (a completed CIFOTM for instance), I'd take the set in a brown paper bag.  

I wonder if we will ever learn what kind of negotiations have been going on behind the scenes?  Has there ever been a similar archival project where so many original tapes are missing?

That's a good argument; it's just that I bet Capitol is balking at paying the price for Collectors' tracks too.  They've got their market, plus they already have SO many tapes to draw from, why bother paying out today, what they won't likely recoup tomorrow?

Today I went back and re-read this account of lengthy negotiations for "Shut Down Vol. 2" master tapes, and I just imagined this going on with multiple collectors of SMILE material and how much cash that could add up to.   You're right...Capitol knows the diehards like us will buy the box no matter what is on there.  Having a completed CIFOTM (for instance) isn't going to be what sways a casual BB fan to buy it.  So you're right, there's no reason for them to pay out a lot of cash they can't recoup.  They may be spending some extra money for the prestige factor - and they deserve credit for that -  but at the end of the day they still are a commercial enterprise.

http://www.newtimesslo.com/cover/3164/the-reel-deal/

Oh crap - that's a bummer indeed. I really hope by artwork you just mean 'design' and that the design is as unobtrusive as possible. If this thing has newly illustrated artwork by anyone other than Holmes it will be a great shame.

Thanks for the info . With all respect, I do hope you're wrong though!  :)

The Capitol press release detailed who was handling the art – as in, the design, not the actual illustrating. That might be the answer. Don't have a link to it right now – anyone?

 
 
THE BEACH BOYS’ LEGENDARY ‘SMiLE’ ALBUM SESSIONS TO BE RELEASED THIS YEAR BY CAPITOL/EMI
Never-Before-Released Original 1966-’67 Album Sessions Compiled for 2CD and Digital Packages and Deluxe, Limited Edition Box Set


Hollywood, California - March 14, 2011 – Between the summer of 1966 and early 1967, The Beach Boys recorded, in several sessions, a bounty of songs and drafts for an album, SMiLE, that was intended to follow the band’s 1966 masterpiece, Pet Sounds. The sessions were ultimately shelved, and The Beach Boys’ SMiLE has never been released. With the full participation of original Beach Boys Al Jardine, Mike Love, and Brian Wilson, Capitol/EMI has collected and compiled the definitive collection, ‘The SMiLE Sessions,’ for worldwide release this year in multiple physical and digital configurations.

The SMiLE Sessions presents an in-depth overview of The Beach Boys' recording sessions for the enigmatic album, which has achieved legendary, mythical status for music fans around the world. The SMiLE Sessions will be released in 2CD and digital album packages and a deluxe, limited edition box set.

Co-produced by Mark Linett and Alan Boyd, all of The SMiLE Sessions’ physical and digital configurations will include an assembled album of core tracks, while the box set delves much deeper into the sessions, adding early song drafts, alternate takes, instrumental and vocals-only mixes, and studio chatter. The SMiLE Sessions invites the listener into the studio to experience the album's creation, with producer, singer and bassist Brian Wilson's vision leading the way as he guides his fellow Beach Boys, singer Mike Love, drummer Dennis Wilson, lead guitarist Carl Wilson, rhythm guitarist Al Jardine, and newest member Bruce Johnston (who'd replaced Brian Wilson in the touring group during 1965), through the legendary sessions.

"I'm thrilled that The Beach Boys' original studio sessions for SMiLE will be released for the first time, after all these years,” says Brian Wilson. “I'm looking forward to this collection of the original recordings and having fans hear the beautiful angelic voices of the boys in a proper studio release.”

“One of my favorite songs from the SMiLE sessions is ‘Wonderful’,” says Mike Love. “The song truly lives up to its title, as do many of the tracks on SMiLE. Cousin Brian was at his creative peak during those sessions. I’m unaware of anything that comes close in pop music.”

“I recently played some of my personal acetates from the SMiLE sessions and they held up really well,” says Al Jardine. “We would come home from touring and go straight into the studio to record. Brian couldn't wait to show us his latest ideas. We were recording SMiLE and Pet Sounds material simultaneously, so the tracks and vocals all have the same great quality. Most of the vocals were done at Columbia Studios in Hollywood, across the street from Western Studios, where most of the tracking was done.”

“For me, it's always been about the way Brian Wilson brilliantly composed and 'voiced' his amazing chord progressions and melodies,” says Bruce Johnston. “SMiLE really made me smile!”

“Personally, I loved it,” the late Carl Wilson said in 1994 of the SMiLE sessions (from the Don Was-directed documentary, Brian Wilson: I Just Wasn’t Made For These Times).

“In my opinion it makes Pet Sounds stink - that's how good it is,” the late Dennis Wilson told a journalist in 1966 of the planned SMiLE album.

What Brian Wilson brought to the table, in his effort to maintain The Beach Boys' position among the top rock 'n' roll bands of the day, was beyond what anyone could have expected. Beginning with “Good Vibrations,” then into SMiLE, Wilson had begun to construct songs in a modular form, crafting individual sections that would later be edited together to form a coherent whole. In several intense bursts of creative energy, Wilson, drawing on the talents of the finest studio musicians in Los Angeles and utilizing the best studio facilities available on any given day, laid down dozens and dozens of musical fragments, all designed to fit together in any number of possible combinations. No one had done this in pop music, and Wilson had just created “Good Vibrations,” The Beach Boys’ best-selling record in a long string of hits, by using this method. His next endeavor would be an album-length version of this unique and luxurious songwriting parlance: SMiLE.

In 1965, Brian Wilson had met an up-and-coming session keyboard player and songwriter, Van Dyke Parks. Noticing Parks' conversational eloquence, Wilson felt that he could help to volley The Beach Boys’ songwriting into the wave of broader-messaged and socially-conscious rock 'n' roll that would come to define the '60s. They were soon collaborating on keynote songs for SMiLE, including “Heroes and Villains,” the band’s follow-up single to “Good Vibrations.” Wilson and Parks would also co-write “Surf's Up,” “Vegetables,” “Cabin Essence,” “Do You Like Worms,” “Wonderful,” “Wind Chimes,” and other bits and pieces of the SMiLE tapestry. Parks also introduced Beat-Pop artist Frank Holmes to create album sleeve art and a booklet interpreting the album’s James Joyce-mode lyrics.

The reason SMiLE did not see a release in early 1967 had more to do with back room business that obscured the creative side of the program than anything else. In late 1966, The Beach Boys formed Brother Records, initially to produce outside artists. Soon, however, The Beach Boys would become embroiled in a court action with Capitol Records with the goal to become the top-selling artists on their self-owned, independent label. The group withheld “Heroes and Villains” and announced they would instead release “Vegetables” – recorded with the band’s own money in April of '67 – on Brother Records. By July of 1967, Capitol Records and The Beach Boys had come to terms, with Capitol agreeing to distribute the band’s Brother Records, and it was agreed that SMiLE was no longer to be the band’s next album.

The SMiLE Sessions’ global release date, complete track lists, and artwork will be unveiled soon.

“Surf's up, aboard a tidal wave, come about hard and join the young and often spring you gave. I heard the word, wonderful thing ... a children's song... ”
– from “Surf's Up” (Brian Wilson/Van Dyke Parks)

 
 

I guess one way to put the squeeze on a artist would be to suggest there is a plan B. Not saying this is happening in this case. ;)

This set without the FHs cover would be like a reissue of 'Pet Sounds' without the sheep. A no brainer! ::)

Darn, I was a mile or two out.

The info came from Peter Reum on this very board:



Tom Recchion -  could that be the guy bgas was alluding to?

What we need is a wonderful handy reference book to the SmileyBoard so we can look this stuff up in a nanosecond!  ;D

It will all be included in my forthcoming book The Smile Sessions Finally Released in 2011, or How To Piss Off Phil Cohen At One Fell Stroke.  ;D

Will that also be released before October?   :p

Day after the box.

Ahh, January 11th, 2012, then

(http://www.earcandymag.com/parody/agd2011book.jpg)

Can this be pre-ordered at Amazon?

Only pre-ordered at Borders.

earcandy can replace Taylor as eye candy AFAIC :)

Wait didn't Frank Holmes do artwork for the proposed SMiLE box set in the 1990's? I recall that there was new illustrations but did he ever hand them over to Capitol? If he did perhaps they intend to use them for 'The SMiLE Session' box.

I guess if he was paid for the latter then that might be a possibility.

I know of one new illustration. A few years ago there was a SMiLE special in a magazine called 'Fishwrap' (don't know if it's still around). In it, there was a new drawing for 'Wonderful'.

You bring up a good point.  FH did do new illustrations for several songs in the mid-'90s.  Off the top of my head, I remember seeing drawings for Good Vibrations, Fire, Wonderful and CIFOTM.  IIRC, the intention was indeed to supplement the 1966 illustrations with the new drawings for inclusion with Capitol's proposed Smile release at the time.

It's interesting that FH seems to have been more on the same page with Capitol at that time than now.  Who knows...   But do we really know for sure that there is an ongoing dispute?  Van Dyke Parks recently mentioned how pleased he was that Frank's work was finally getting its due with this release.  Of course, VDP may have simply seen mock-up packaging that was prepared without formal permission.  We've yet to see anything official from either side.  All we seem to have here are rumors.

Like the aforementioned rarities in the possession of collectors, the Holmes artwork is, to some extent, a now-or-never proposition for both sides.  If it's not purchased by Capitol now, it may never be.  I'm sure that all parties realize this, and I hope that things will be worked out eventually.

I will only buy this if I can't get my hands on the epic Bill Tobleman/Fishmonk book.

>>The Dalai Lama walks into Domino's Pizza and says "make me one with everything".

PERFECT.  now i will annoy my co-workers with it. :)

Another issue could be how the payment is made. I think this set will sell for many years so a fee based on units sold may not appeal to Frank who I think is in his late 70s. He could be after a larger 'one off' fee now which is making Capitol nervous.

based on years, his fee might get reduced too. A lot of sales this year, then a lot more in a couple years when the set hits the cut-out/overmanufacture racks

Don't forget that Mr. Holmes' illustrations appeared in BEAUTIFUL DREAMER (the new ones at least -and animated! - but I seem to recall the cover was used as well along with portions of the original illustrations - I haven't watched it in awhile). If the illustrations were used in the documentary, you would think there wouldn't be a huge problem in licensing them for the box set. Perhaps a lower fee was negotiated which would allow for the images to appear in the booklet as historical reference (like the cover was used in the GV Box Set booklet) and not as part of the actual cover art.

RALMAO

All 20 of Frank's drawings will be making their appearance in the deluxe box set.

Splendid, fitting news. Many thanks David. I hope the cover is used as a cover, if you get my drift…

Yes, exactly... will the drawings be IN the box set... or ON the box set?

I don't know anything either way, but I'm curious. Sticking 'em printed small with the other archive shots in the documentation IN the box isn't the same as having THAT COVER... er... on the cover.

I guess it might have proven difficult to come to a commercial agreement over the cover of the set.

And of course... the SMiLE Sessions *ISN'T* the original SMiLE album (which, of course, can never be)... so maybe we're in for a Pet Sounds Sessions-style 'similar but different' cover. That works for me too...

Where ya been?

Any idea of what drawings will be on or in the double-CD edition?