The Smiley Smile Message Board

Charles, due to your continued harassment of Laurie by PM, I am deleting my account. Get well soon.

All others who agree, please follow suit.

Since, once again, matters that Laurie insists be private are made public again, if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask them right here.  I'll answer them to the best of my ability.  

I second Ian's notion, and furthermore add that I am withdrawing my membership along with any and all support for this site. When John and I built this community back in the day, we did it with a spirit of love and a sense of community and friendship. It is very, very clear to me that this spirit has been wholly absent from the moderation of this site for a very long time. Sarcasm, ridicule, belittling, back-handed sniping, and now victim-blaming and harassment are the order of the day.

This is not the community we helped build. This is something other. Enjoy yourselves. I'll be seeing you.

Yep me too. I'm shocked that you feel fit to talk to a member of your own board like that. It's really disappointing.

Jon, refering to Laurie as a "victim" in regards to me only shows that not only do you not have all or any of the facts of what happened, but you are mistaken as to exactly what happened with her and the Professor.  Moreso, she asked that we take our conversation today to PMs.  If she didn't want to talk to me about the exagerated incident from the past, I shouldn't have been invited to do so.

Hope to see all the great posters again at the friendly board!

Maybelline, I can only assume you've either read our PMs, or have been told about them.  Either way, as I have told Laurie, I can't abide by the fiction that she has been a helpless victim the entire time she has been on this board.  Her hands were not clean when dealing with the Professor, and the continued manipulation of a one time joke from me, by her and others, got old a long time ago.  

In the end, this should be between her and me.  But, as usual, it isn't.

Man, I'm so out of here. No one deserves to be treated like that. I, too, am deleting my account and severing all ties with Charles LePage.

Private, not private, whatever: a member of your forum in no way deserves to be talked to like that.

You heard it here, folks. The victim's to blame.

What FACTS are you referring to?  You make it out like I'm some kind of slut or something, which I'm not!!! I don't know where you get your information but no one deserves to be treated this way.  You are so wrong and should be so ashamed of yourself.   I'm outta here too.

What did I say?

And how is someone a victim when they say one day something is okay and funny, the next day it's not, and then continually bring it up even when the matter is apologised for?  Seems like a strange definition of victim, "guest."

Do you really want me to discuss this here?

We are leaving. Because of your behavior to Laurie, Charles.

Say amen somebody.

What's wrong, Charles? You afraid the whole board will find out what happened?

soooooooooo what happened?

This is really painful to do.  This whole situation stinks all around and there is no one source of trouble IMO.

But I must say I have to agree with the exodus.  Charles, it is not all about today's events either.  I will be honest -- a large part of my tie here has been the online relationship I have had with John and jon for going on 10 years.  We aren't buds but I have always liked them and my board loyalties were always to them.  Justified or not, that is how it has been for me.  I had to be coaxed back here after the meltdown against my instincts, because I was offended that their board was resurrected with a new name against their wishes (so it seemed).  I have never felt completely at home here.

Charles, there are so many other things at work here than just relationships with the mod. Some of them involve other posters whom I won't drag in here.  But to set the record straight, here is where I am coming from:  I already posted my concern for your attempts to set the morals straight on this board, when it seems -- just from my public view -- like there have been times when you have participated in your own way as much as anyone.  In addition, I was offended in the way you came over to the Smile Shop board seeking gossip (and let's call a spade a spade -- it was gossip you were after) about Brian Wilson and Andy Paley, even after it was made clear that this wasn't welcome, just for a project of yours. You come there either seeking that or else to check up on what is said about you but for no other reason and that is offensive to me.   Finally, there are today's event which are just a last straw sort of thing.  I don't know what "really" happened, and I don't need to know.  There are enough threats made clear in the PM I was shown to demonstrate that, whatever happened, Laurie was under a current attack from you.  If you really had an issue with her, you could have been more gentle and open in your attempts to communicate.  Instead, the anger you clearly have inside about your reputation colored your response. 

Two boards has always been a pain, but I have done it because not every one came over to the Smile Shop.  Now it doesn't matter.  Anyone that needs me can find me there.

Wow, I've just seen the PMs. Charles should be ashamed of himself.

 ??? :o :( :-\

I haven't seen anything yet, but from what I've heard it's harsh.

What the f***?

ask chuck.

what did you say?

Yes, seriously, what's this all about?  Why are respected board members flocking in droves?  I'm seriously confused.

Sadly, the time has come.  Goodbye all.

seems like being inaccessbile and unapproachable at this point in time would be a bad thing.

the only recourse is to go jimmy swaggert.

"Everything that I will attempt to say to you this morning will be from my heart. I will not speak from a prepared script. Knowing the consequences of what I will say and that much of it will be taken around the world, as it should be, I am positive that all that I want to say I will not be able to articulate as I would desire. But I would pray that you will somehow feel the anguish, the pain, and the love of my heart. I have always -- every single time that I have stood before a congregation and a television camera -- I have met and faced the issues head-on. I have never sidestepped or skirted unpleasantries. I have tried to be like a man and to preach this gospel exactly as I have seen it without fear or reservation or compromise. I can do no less this morning.

I do not plan in any way to whitewash my sin. I do not call it a mistake, a mendacity; I call it sin. I would much rather, if possible -- and in my estimation it would not be possible -- to make it worse than less than it actually is. I have no one but myself to blame. I do not lay the fault or the blame of the charge at anyone else's feet. For no one is to blame but Chuck LePage. I take the responsibility. I take the blame. I take the fault."

 :-\

Peace.

Chuck, where the hell have I been?

Don't bother answering, I'll tell ya!

I was on the old site for weeks, posting ...nobody said anything back..the days went on and on. I finally gave up and headed into the forrest, into the black of night, to find you all again. With wolves, bear's,TV's and freaks snarling for a piece of me I battled tooth and nail to find my way home. Finally on my last legs, with nothing left to give, I ran into an impoverished but knowing lad who told me tales of hackers with ships abandoned and rebuilt, he pointed to the west. I struggled onward, up hills and through valley's, passing a weakened DOOM on the way, until...at last...Eutopia was found again.

hi costly bow.  i'm mike.  charles said something inappropriate to laurie arleen whatever her name is (wasn't she in the middle of the last mess?  i'd say this is strike two!  i kid, i kid) in private pm's.  certain people know, and they are throwing stones because they are sin-less.  i'd go over to the smile shop if i were you.  that's where all the innocent freaks hang!

http://thesmileshop.phpwebhosting.com/forum/index.php

i feel for ya chuck.  everybody makes mistakes.  especially on the internet.  things surely get blown out of proportion, don't they?

Bastards!

yup, continue to blame the victim. Its easy, when all evidence of activity gets deleted.

Deleted? Bastards!

no one's saying any one is a victim.  in fact, if i were to say someone were a victim, i would say it is everybody.  now we're all into the drama and looking here and looking there to see what the deal is and what side we should be on.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=victim

at any rate, i just thought this would be the right topic to "ask charles" about what he said that offended laurie arleen. 

guess not.  no biggie!  words will never make ME a victim.   ;D

The only side being chosen is that in favor of not harassing women.
I could post the offensiveness, but I have too much class for that.
This isn't a chess game, it's serious.

typing words to somebody i don't know, and can't even prove exists...has never seemed serious to me in the least. 

now, should that someone come up to me on the street and pinch my ass?  well then, that's cause for alarm!    :o

as for these letters i'm typing and words i'm forming...don't let them bother you.  not only do i mean you or anybody any harm...they can absolutely do no one any harm.  i can prove it.

anyways, i'd never side for something bad like harrassment, or self-righteousness.  nope.  not never!

All will be explained, later tonight I hope.

Isn't this EXACTLY what happened with the Prof?  Seems a bit odd to me. :-X

I'm out of here too.

Those who care to look closely elsewhere will see that it is not just the PM mess that is going on.  Chuck has established a pattern of behavior that has disturbed many of the regular posters to this site.  This can be found in other threads elsewhere.

Deleting your membership to a board only to keep posting as a guest makes the resignation a pretty empty gesture.

assuming of course that you tell the absolute truth,and nothing less...but then how will we I know ?

is it me, or did the activity of this board just died after this afternoon?

usually I cant keep up with the new posts...today Im actually bored!

So long, LandLubbers.

Anyone ever see the episode of That 70's Show when Donna says to Eric about something else going on,

"Draaaama  :P "

Quite some time ago, I provided a message board for the Smile Shop web site.  It was my pleasure to do so, as a member of the Beach Boy online community, as a means of giving something back to fans and professionals who had given me so much for so many years.  One day, however, I was told all was not well on the board.  Someone using the nickname of "The Professor" had been sending sexual and harassing private messages on the board, I was told, and he was now posting public messages that were not sexual, but problematic none the less.  Unfortunately, I was informed of this at the tail end of the incident, and was not privy to all the facts.  Trusting what I was told, I banned the Professor.  Shortly afterwards, Jon Hunt and John Lane announced they were shutting the board down in anticipation of starting a new board and new Smile Shop site.  Not wanting to abandon the community on the board, I started the Smiley Smile board and site.  It appeared to be the best solution at the time, to keep the existing community together.

Shortly after the Smiley Smile board started, a message thread started where members were posting pictures of themselves.  It evolved into people using Photoshop to make humorous combinations of backgrounds and member photos.  I myself made a couple of combinations that included the woman who I was told was harassed by the Professor.  She let me know she thought the photos were funny.  Shortly after that, the woman in question and I sent private messages to each other in the morning, telling each other "good morning," "have a nice day at work," and so on.  This seemed harmless enough to me.  However, she announced to me privately that my attention to her was making her "uncomfortable," and to please stop it.  This caught me by surprise, since the exchange of greetings seemed harmless to me, but I apologized and stopped the conversation.  This made me wonder just how one sided the Professor incident really was.  I was told he had been sending this woman the suggestive messages for months, and that she admitted that she told him right up until the end she enjoyed the messages.  Also, I learned when the Professor was asked by her to stop, he did.

Thinking the matter settled, I dropped it.  But I found that every so often, the woman or someone she associated with on the board would bring it up, and the matter became increasingly exaggerated.  By the time of the message you are now reading, it's been said on the board I was harassing her privately and I had seen naked photos of her, none of which is true.  I can honestly say I've not seen naked photos of anyone on this board, and don't want to.  Unfortunately, there are people who have made a point of creating a reputation for me that is false.  I did my best to keep what I knew to myself and keep the matter private, despite what was being posted.

Most recently, there was a message thread where people were joking about blindness.  I made two jokes that I'm told were offensive, and while I didn't see the harm in the jokes, I apologized.  However, this became another opportunity to bring up my supposed harassing of this woman, sometimes in blatant ways, sometimes in subtle ways.  Even after things settled down and most people seemed to be getting along well, the woman in question continued to make public comments about me.  I asked her what the current problem was, and she asked to take it to private messages, so I did.  I told her in language she considered to be "mean" that if she was so bothered by the mention of her suffering on this board, she shouldn't continue to bring it up in public, especially since it was clear to me from what I had learned that she wasn't a helpless, innocent woman being stalked by evil men.  I made it clear I firmly believed that both her and the Professor were at fault, and that I was tired of being painted as an online stalker who was mean to women.  Instead of dropping the matter, she chose to tell other people online that I was "harassing" her.  Some of those people have chosen to delete their membership on this board.

I said all that so I could say this:  I am not perfect, and I'm not here to cast stones at anyone.  I've done stupid stuff online and offline.  However, I have not harassed anyone on this board, publicly or privately.  I have only made it clear that something that should have been finished and forgotten a long time ago had been blown into something ridiculous, at my expense.  I have done my best to do this not out of anger or revenge.  I simply want people to know what they are talking about before they accuse me of an activity.

To the people who have left:  you are all welcome back.  Not because the board can't survive without you, but because I do not want people to leave based on emotional reactions based on poor information.  If you believe you cannot participate here, I wish you well, but I also want you and everyone else to know, I did not ask or tell anyone to leave, and I do not agree with their decisions.  I appreciate the loyalty you are showing a friend, but this was a matter that should have been between the two of us.  She is a 40 year old married woman who does not need a posse of virtual big brothers and sisters defending and protecting her.  She has proven to be very able to take care of herself when she feels it necessary.

To Jon Hunt:  again, I appreciate the loyalty you are showing.  I see have been banned at the IP level from the Smile Shop message board.  I will not do that to anyone who has decided to leave this message board.  I am not going to add to the useless drama permeating this board any more than I have to.  I also will not let this nonsense poison the relevant parts of this site or board.  They will continue unblemished.

To Jeff Mason: you said tonight "Chuck has established a pattern of behavior that has disturbed many of the regular posters to this site.  This can be found in other threads elsewhere."  Strangely, this supposed pattern hasn't caused any issues on the relevant parts of this board.  You've also made it clear you have many issues with me, this board and this site that go way beyond anything recent events.  I believe nothing I could do or say could make you feel comfortable here.  Just the same, I'm sorry to see you go.

To the woman in question:  I'm sorry you felt the need to once again take a private matter public.  I'm sorry to say, given the facts I have learned over the past months and years, I don't believe everything you've said about being harassed by the Professor, nor do I believe your current outrage is sincere.  I'm sorry you chose to either talk about or share the private messages you asked me to send you recently with others.  I don't intend to post them here.

To all:  I apologize for the interruption.  I apologize for the ill will you have heard about and seen.  Hopefully this will be end to baseless bickering that has been taking place here.  There is more I could share, but I still believe there are details about the events I've related to you that should remain private, no matter what is said about me.  And, I apologize to anyone who I've wronged, or to anyone that perceives I have wronged them.  I'm told I seem unapproachable sometimes, which is true, and that has led to some of the misunderstandings that have taken place.  At the same time, when I'm falsely accused of harassing and sexually harassing a woman, when I'm told I'm "sick" and a "sociopath" for defending myself, I cannot remain completely silent.  To do so would be an affirmation of the accusations.  To do so would be to grant a victory to those who want to convince others "this is exactly what happened with the Prof."

I believe all things work for good.  That is what my faith in Christ teaches me every day.  I believe that all the hurt feelings, the perceptions and misperceptions, the truths and half truths, will all lead to a good result, because that's what God has promised.  My hope is that all who have trespassed, including myself, can forgive and be forgiven.

NBA Coast To Coast is on ESPN2 in a half hour.  I encourage everyone to get off the computer and watch it.

ADDED LATER:

I've made what I hope is a clear statement in the very first post in this thread.

I believe I should add to it by saying, thank you to anyone who has not jumped to any conclusions.  I appreciate it.

Also, I will allow unregistered guests to continue to post here as a courtesy to those who have left the board but wish to continue to participate (yes, it's a contradiction, but what else is new?).  I do not see the value in punishing anyone who felt the need to leave.

From Jon Hunt on The Smile Shop:
Chuck posted his version of events.

I'd like to quote liberally from it if I may.


"Shortly afterwards, Jon Hunt and John Lane announced they were shutting the board down in anticipation of starting a new board and new Smile Shop site. Not wanting to abandon the community on the board, I started the Smiley Smile board and site. It appeared to be the best solution at the time, to keep the existing community together."



Note please: we were not happy about that. We made our displeasure very clear, and it was made clear that the answer to that was "tough titties," in no uncertain terms.

I'm still pissed about that, and probably always will be.


"However, she announced to me privately that my attention to her was making her "uncomfortable," and to please stop it. This caught me by surprise, since the exchange of greetings seemed harmless to me, but I apologized and stopped the conversation. This made me wonder just how one sided the Professor incident really was."



And here is where the problems lie. You know what? Whether you think you're right or not, when a woman says that your attentions are making her uncomfortable, you STOP. And you apologize, profusely. PERIOD. Even if your intentions are harmless. Even if you had NOTHING IN MIND WHATSOEVER. YOU STOP. ***PERIOD***.

What you DON'T do is belittle that person's concern.

What you also don't do is belittle everybody else's concern.

Whether you think it deserves it or not, you take it seriously.

Don't they fucking have sexual harassment classes at your place of employ?


"Also, I learned when the Professor was asked by her to stop, he did."



Except he didn't. What he actually told her in a message I personally saw was essentially to "lighten up," to start getting more into the spirit of the EXTREMELY disgusting sexual messages. And this was after he was told to stop.

AGAIN: I SAW THAT MESSAGE.

Sometimes people don't know how to tell the harasser that they find the messages disgusting. THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM RIGHT.


"Thinking the matter settled, I dropped it. But I found that every so often, the woman or someone she associated with on the board would bring it up, and the matter became increasingly exaggerated. By the time of the message you are now reading, it's been said on the board I was harassing her privately and I had seen naked photos of her, none of which is true." 



That's fucking BULLSHIT. Nobody had ever said anything like that. Of course, who knows what we said, since the entire thread is deleted -- Chuck could claim at this point that we said he liked to f*** pink elephants, and there'd be no proof.

I will say it again: What Chuck did, and last time I posted this he deleted the message, was to post pictures of Laurie, with her face superimposed over the body of a naked woman in a hot tub. *I* found it extremely inappropriate. John Lane found it equally so. Ian found it doubly so. Just about everybody involved wondered how in the hell it made sense to post something like that SO SOON AFTER THE PROFESSOR INCIDENTS.


"I can honestly say I've not seen naked photos of anyone on this board, and don't want to. Unfortunately, there are people who have made a point of creating a reputation for me that is false. I did my best to keep what I knew to myself and keep the matter private, despite what was being posted."



Yes, we're all out to get him. That's such BULLSHIT -- we said what I just said above: he posted a photoshopped partially-naked picture of Laurie.


"Most recently, there was a message thread where people were joking about blindness. I made two jokes that I'm told were offensive, and while I didn't see the harm in the jokes, I apologized. However, this became another opportunity to bring up my supposed harassing of this woman, sometimes in blatant ways, sometimes in subtle ways."



If Chuck hadn't kept making reference to "I am so UNCOMFORTABLE" all the time, clearly designed to poke at Laurie and anybody who agreed with her, it wouldn't have gotten brought up. Only: it did. Because he did.


"I told her in language she considered to be "mean" "



EVERYBODY considered it to be mean, no ironic quotes.


"what I had learned that she wasn't a helpless, innocent woman being stalked by evil men."



So: Chuck has decided to trust the Prof's words over Laurie's. Brilliant.

And this should be all you need to know, folks.


"Instead of dropping the matter, she chose to tell other people online that I was "harassing" her." 



I saw the messages. They were harassment. PURE AND SIMPLE.

I showed them to my wife, and she was APPALLED. And she doesn't even know the full history. She was just appalled by the "blame the victim" stance.


"However, I have not harassed anyone on this board, publicly or privately." 



Again: I saw the message, and it was clear harassment.


"Not because the board can't survive without you, but because I do not want people to leave based on emotional reactions based on poor information." 



IT WASN'T POOR INFORMATION. I SAW THE MESSAGES. EVEN IF NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED, THOSE MESSAGES CONSITITUTED PURE AND SIMPLE HARASSMENT. Even if there was NOTHING ELSE, THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH.

I love the implication that we're all too stupid to know what's going on.

ONCE AGAIN: and I can't make it any clearer: I SAW THE ACTUAL MESSAGES. THEY ALONE WERE ENOUGH.


"To Jon Hunt: again, I appreciate the loyalty you are showing. I see have been banned at the IP level from the Smile Shop message board. I will not do that to anyone who has decided to leave this message board. I am not going to add to the useless drama permeating this board any more than I have to. I also will not let this nonsense poison the relevant parts of this site or board. They will continue unblemished. "



I'm surprised the entire thread just hasn't been deleted.

And damn straight you're banned. I'd love for you to be able to post your one-line sarcastic messages over here more, but I'm afraid that's not gonna happen.


"I don't believe everything you've said about being harassed by the Professor, nor do I believe your current outrage is sincere."



Again: we are blaming the victim. That is pathetic.


To do so would be to grant a victory to those who want to convince others "this is exactly what happened with the Prof." 



The Prof. An innocent victim. I cannot BELIEVE this insanity.

now I have to decide whether I should stay or not...THE LAST THING I NEED TO HEAR ABOUT IS A SUPPOSEDLY CHRISTIAN MAN BEHAVING LIKE JIM BAKER or JIMMY SWAGGERT...Let me guess, God told you she really wants it...

Ian, did Jon want you to post this here?  I'm assuming if he wanted me to be able to respond, he'd turn off the ban.


I have never said the Professor was an innocent victim.  I have said I refuse to paint a gray matter black and white just to make it easier to digest.  NEITHER party was an innocent, helpless victim.


I'm not calling anyone "stupid."  I am seeing people with long standing beefs with me, that had nothing do with my supposed "harassment," bringing out the laundry lists of every thing I've ever done to them.  Seems to me dots are being connected that shouldn't be.


How is someone a helpless victim, when they encourage improper behavior for months, ask someone to stop, and the person stops?  How is someone an innocent victim when they insist they don't want to talk about a supposedly painful incident, and then continue to post one liners and assertions?  Of course someone is going to be appalled if they are told someone is a helpless and innocent victim.  Problem is, the facts don't back that conclusion up.


Not at all.  I believe what I've been able to verify.  Both parties were at fault.  Both ended up becoming victims of something they started and fostered together.  It was not a simple matter of a bad man and sweet, innocent woman.


I did not.  Since you crave details, I did photoshop a partial picture of her in a body of water, but the picture of her was not naked, nor was it someone else's naked picture.  It was meant to be funny in the context of the message thread.  Other people added to the photo.  While all of you were so offended, she made it clear to me at the time she thought it was funny.  Again, this has become so exaggerated it is ridiculous. 


I did not say the Professor's messages were "right."  I've said the opposite.  But this wasn't two to three months of not being able to tell him to stop.  This was two or three months of mutual activity.


I did stop.  I did apologise.  And we now see how effective all that was.


I have no idea.  But as I've never sexually harassed anyone, here or otherwise, that has nothing to do with anything.

This is exactly why I felt the need to say what I said.  Now we have people believing I have sexually harassed someone.  Now, as I told Jeff Mason, we are actively attempting to turn me into Professor Part II.  And I will not have it. 

As for "supposedly Christian man,"  Christians were not sinless and perfect last time I checked.  But if I'm going to be accused of a sin, make it factual.

No, not necessarily. But I felt you should be given a chance to respond, in all fairness.

Charles, your standards of what harassment is or isn't clearly are not shared by others.
You keep going into attack mode when all you should be doing, IMO, is apologising.

People have read your messages and are greatly offended. They are going simply on that. Not on accusations.

and just to prove I can be fair, if IF IF the female in question is who I think it COULD be, the avatar itself could be considered provocative...

I'm not in attack mode.  I'm in defense mode.  I will not idly stand by while others recreate events to their own ends. 

As for apologizing, I have, over and over again, for things I have done and not done.  I just posted a very long message apologizing to various people.  But that doesn't mean history gets to be rewritten. 

Of course they are going to be offended.  I defended myself against Snow White.  This goes beyond this message board.  I mean, haven't you wondered why, if she was so perplexed and bothered by the Professor, she didn't mention it to her husband the entire time?  I know the answer to that, and it makes perfect sense, unfortunately.

I don't remember having any issues with her avatars, but I could be mistaken.

The people that are leaving now have probably wanted to leave for a while, in favor of the oh-so-elite new non-Smile-related Smile Shop (hilarious that the name was never changed.) They're using this as an excuse. Ian in particular, he loves to ridicule this place on "The Shop." There has been a lot of anti-Smiley board sentiment on the Shop since its inception, probably stemming from Jon & John's being "pissed" (as Jon has finally admitted) about Chuck's refusal to allow the community here to die or be assimilated into the new non-BB-related "Smile Shop."

What I see happening here (and is evident in Jon's post) is an electronic lynching of Chuck, fueled by past animosities. I have read nothing that I feel is improper action on Chuck's part, and am left instead with a lousy view of Laurie.

For what it's worth, Chuck, you have my full support. What is happening to you is wrong, and people will eventually figure it out. The ones that won't aren't worth worrying about anyway.

The more I read about this situation the more unsure I am about it.

It makes me a little skeptical when two people, who have been posting on these message boards for years, just out of the blue start harassing the same woman.

This does not sound right to me at all.  I will continue posting at both boards as long as I'm welcome.

And Posts: 7 and Posts: 8, have fun.
Posts:1000 and Posts:2000 see things otherwise.

90% of the major-volume posters have de-registered in one day. And it's all a witch-hunt. Sure.

Some of you kids take this sh*t way too seriously.

Everyone needs to relax. Chuck, I recommend that you just close this thread down and just let it be. Everyone should move on, and get back to talkin about music and all the good things in life. All this random bickering isnt going to solve anything and is only going to escalate again.

I thoroughly enjoy the SS board, Ive gotten to chat with plenty of amazing people, Ive learnd a ton of info about the BB, and best of all I got to speak to someone I regard highly in the audio engineering world.

So please, everyone, light up, guzzle down, throw on your favorite record and just relax. (http://www.dubnetwork.com/images/thumbsup2.gif)

if by "Laurie" you mean "LaurieArleen",then I might, I said might owe Charles an apology..."Provocative" is in the eye of the beholder...And I DO appreciate the fact that the Christian inside him has kept a fairly low profile,'til now...

Josh, you get hypocritical post #2, since this one calls me by name.

Charles, you absolutely right that we aren't perfect.  But we also need to be humble and admit when we are wrong.  I have lain at your feet one undeniable sin that you have not responded to -- gossip.  For those who don't know, Charles went to the Smile Shop and implored people there to tell him why Andy Paley had a falling out with Brian Wilson because he knew someone there knew why, and wanted the juice so he could add it to his timeline.  It was made very clear that this was wrong and he persisted.  This was the beginning of my departure from this board.

As to the current events, the jokes and the PMs, my comments have little or nothing to do with what may have happened between you and the lady or whatever.  In the jokes, you justified your behavior by saying that everyone in the Sandbox needed to bring up their posts from the gutter or some such thing immediately after a half-hearted apology that never admitted that the jokes were truly in poor taste.  And in the PMs, you showed no compassion or humility.  Regardless of whether the lady's accusations are wrong or right, to bring our mutual faith into this, Jesus commands us to always take the high road of love into every situation, and I saw no love but bitterness in the words I read in those PMs.  And they matched the PMs you sent me for attitude, as you alluded to the PMs above we exchanged, so I see no reason to think that they weren't the actual words you wrote.  You are more concerned for your reputation than the heart of someone else regardless of what you think of her and that isn't right.  So my objections are strictly factual and have not been rebutted in the slightest.  And I have been consistent in my stance whereever I have posted, so I am not saying anything to anyone else I wouldn't at this point say to you.

Why do you think that is? He deleted all the threads.

This is not a cut or criticism, but I would emphasize major VOLUME.  The person who has posted only 8 messages here is not less valuable than the person who posted 2000 messages, along with a slew of off topic messages.

This may change, but I don't see much change in the activity outside this forum.  Which is as it should be.

Ian, thank you for posting Jon's reply here.  I wish I had the opportunity to respond directly, but the choice has been made to exclude me from a board where I've become a topic of conversation.  And that's a shame.

Ha. I think even Charles would agree that the accusations made are plenty worthy of serious consideration.

It's funny. If this were a few months back I would've been totally oblivious to all of this because I was mainly interested in the BBoys talk.  I wonder how the people who mainly stay in that section view these happenings here.

in America a man is innocent until PROVEN guilty...innocent men go to jail and guilty  men go free,consider this the beginnig of an apology...Still, in this day and age one has to be ESPECIALLY careful...for instance-what was called discipline when I was a kid is called child abuse now...what was called flirting is sometimes called harassment...

Actually, I went to the Smile Shop because I knew that someone who claimed to know the true story behind Andy Paley leaving 1) insisted it was so super personal no one else could know, and 2) was at that board telling others this deeply personal story.  I went there, not for gossip, but the truth.  My actual belief is if it's a deeply personal secret of Andy Paley's, then it's not likely anyone really knows it and the person claiming to know this fact is full of it.  Before we get on our high horse, it should be made clear, the people who say it's wrong for others to ask about it are the ones claiming to tell each other this supposed secret.

So there you go.  I'm guilty of attempting to piece together the truth behind BW/AP and BB reunions. 

And, as for me being more concerned about my reputation than humility or love, I've done my best to be loving and humble concerning all this for what I believe is about two years.  I could not be honestly loving and continue to allow the misrepresentations to continue.  Painful as it might have been to write or to read, I believe someone had to say "enough."

People here are judging based on statements from Charles that we've read.
I could print them, but I won't, that'd be wrong.


Talk about rumors.


I lived two doors away from Paley. And the story was corraborated by two BB authorities who you would not remotely question.



Uhhhh, what?

And that person just posted about this very thing at the Smile Shop.  He said he talked about #2 above all right -- in his personal private messages to someone else that you opened up and read.  In fact, this person said that he posted that PM just to prove that you were reading his PMs and that he never had any intention of telling anyone anything.

Susan. Please come to the Smile Shop for a sec.

Yet another old complaint.  I remember when Jon Hunt was unhappy, right after the Professor incident, that I didn't learn sooner how to read people's private messages.   Then it became this outrage, 'he can read our private messages?  outrageous!'  Now people actually post their OWN private messages to "prove" what they claim to already know, that I read their private messages. 

Again, I wasn't looking for gossip, I was looking for the truth.  And if there really is a behind the scenes story on Andy Paley and Brian Wilson, apparently it's going to be kept in the inner circle of BB fandom, along with the unbooted songs that only a select few get to hear.

Yes, we've got to tell you something Charles can't read.  *yawn*

Since I didn't say not to post them, were you told by the other party not to?

Good advice, and eventually, this will be locked down.  Just a little bit longer and we should be done.

Do you or do you not read Private Messages from members of the board in the interest of moderation?


it wouldn't matter to you.

Yep-- I made that change for you, Ian, and we see what good came of that.

I guess the biggest problem with any bulletin board is that it's run by, visited by, and used by human beings...And you know how nutty the human race is...judging by my dog's behavior, there is lunacy in the animal kingdom, too...

If it didn't matter to me, I wouldn't have asked.

This is like a fight between a bunch of little kids. I'm younger than all of you here and I can actually leave the computer room and get to bed now. My day hasn't been ruffled with any of this and it will disturb my dreaming none. I'll be back tomorrow to see who has flat tires on their bike and who has gum in their hair.

Goodnight folks.

Man, I was always in favor of moderation and censoring threads when necessary. That was CHRIS D's issue.
I was the one who got into hot water for killing threads when I was a moderator.
I mean, come on. Censor away.

a lock down SEEMS like censorship,but then again, maybe not...or to get to the heart matter--f*** it, let's move on...

Just as it should be.  And goodnight to you, as well.

This may seem silly, but it ruffled my day today, and I'm letting this happen so it won't ruffle tomorrow.

I understand its suppose to be uncensored...but theres nothing else going on the board and this is the only active place...and in all honestly, its getting repetative. Seriously, its endless bickering, reread each others posts and youll notice its just two mirrors spewing teh same sh*t back and forth.

If you dont want to be active in this board, fine, leave and thats it. Why keep coming back to argue about something thats not going to get resolve? What is it that you ultimately want from visiting this board as a guest? You might as well reregister and go at it if it really means that much to you.

Like I said, only reason Im reading all this is because theres nothing else going on, and I hope some interesting conversations spark in the Music forum soon. Maybe I should avoid it all together, but thats just not my style. 8)

I love you, Ian.  You criticize me for saying I'm going to lock down a thread, then you say it's okay.  I miss you already.

Let's!

Actually, I need to go to bed.  I'll move on tomorrow.

Thanks, everyone.  I think most of this was worth it.  Let's fill up the important parts of the board tomorrow.

Nope, just merely pointing out the irony.

Hope your board without us goes well, Charles.

it ain't over.

If you mean the board, no, it's not over by a long shot.

If you mean something else, I'm all ears.

The first PM from Chuck:




It's old and tiring but you keep bringing it up. You've tried to forget about it, but you keep bringing it up.

I joke about the "uncomfortable" comment because I know this was not a case of sweet innocent Laurie being stalked by evil Chuck. Nor was the professor thing that simple. The things I've learned since then have made it clear what really happened in both cases. One second you said you liked the photoshop nonsense I and others were making, the next second it makes you "uncomfortable," and I've continued to have it thrown in my face since then, to the point where Jon and Ian now talk about "naked photos of Laurie." Essentially, I've been made into Professor part II, and it's a complete load of garbage.

So, yes, I apologise for mocking you, but you don't get a free pass to play the Virgin Mary card with me. I know better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The second PM:

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:16 pm

 

I wish it were that easy. However, what was a small joke that you asked me stop, all that time ago, never goes away. You and others keep bringing it up and throwing it in my face. I'm "mocking" you. I make you feel "uncomfortable." I'm told I was creating naked pictures of you. I have to read on other boards how people were "shocked" that I would do such a thing. It's gotten to the point where no one, not even you I think, remembers exactly what it is I did that was so awful. I remember, however, and I remember how it was funny to you at first, and suddenly it wasn't. And how it became fodder for the rumor mill. And how it's continued to be used as a flag to wave to announce what a victim you are. But I've seen things I wish I hadn't, and I know you aren't the victim people have made you out to be.

I've tried to not say anything when I read it. I've certainly kept quiet about the things I've found about the Professor, and things that I've discovered since then. But I've found if I say nothing, it only reinforces the impression that sad, innocent Laurie was brutalized by another online stalker. I will not roll over, shut up, and let what was a harmless joke continue to snowball.

My hope and prayer is that someday you and the Professor can forgive each other for the trespasses you caused each other. I hope the same for you and me. Honesty would be a good start to the process.

ugh, thats the most pathetic response ever.

and "it aint over"...I think H&V said it best, youre acting like a bunch of middle school kids.

get over yourselves.

I certainly hope Laurie doesn't mind you posting her private messages, but I guess at this point they really aren't all that private anymore.

Haha, Charles. Good one. I loved North Country too.

Amosario, above me, BBBBBBBB-LLLOOOWWWW me.

thats sexual harrassment, and I dont have to take it.

youll be recieving a call from my lawyer.

SMOG MAKES ME DO THESE THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and sorry, Ian, I thought you posted the IMs.  I read just now on Jon's board that Laurie did it herself.

Hmmm....
Bootleg-related, but only semi-obscure.
Slightly wrongly remembered.
Plus for context to use it in.

I give your semi-obscure, bootleg-related reference response a 3.5

OK, Prof.

If you think that's funny, given today, you are seriously wrong.   Out of love, I have to say, once again, you've gone too far.

I thought we were friends, Mr. Guest.  :(

Methinks the guest did not catch your acronym properly...

I think this is a job for "Holy sh*t."  Sometimes nothing else will do.

I don't think so.  I guess I'm an asshole now because I won't pick a side.

First off: I was NEVER upset that we were unable to read private messages. If you can produce a quote proving that, I would be most intersted. Let''s hear it, Chuck. Because I have NEVER said that. Private messages, for good or ill, are supposed to be PRIVATE. Hence the name. If people have issues with what goes on in PRIVATE MESSAGES I'd hope they'd do like Laurie did: contact the moderator. Which she did, and we took care of it.

You know what? I still think reading people's private messages and not admitting to it is absolutely outrageous. Frankly: I would have been not the least bit offended if somebody had admitted AT ANY POINT to reading private messages. But when you were called out on it, Chuck, you admitted nothing. You didn't deny nor did you admit. Neither that you'd read or you hadn't read. And I think that's pathetic -- either ADMIT TO YOUR MODERATION or deny it wholeheartedly. HONESTY. What happened was that I was quoted on a poll from a message I'd sent IN PRIVATE to Ian. And that's neither fair nor right. At the very least cop to your moderation.


The truth was none of your fucking business.


BOO FUCKING HOO. Last night I had sex with my wife. It, too, is private. Guess what, Chuck: not everything is for public consumption. Sometimes things don't get to go in your lamely-designed timeline.

This entire thread is built on a series of sad, pathetic lies. You can believe what you like. If you hate me, fine. Whoop-de-do. Have fun, folks. I'm being honest. Ian is being honest. We're telling it like it is, based on actual viewing of actual messages sent by Chuck. He can spin it however he likes: the truth be told his treatment of Laurie is harssement, plain and simple. You can make light or joke about it or whatever, it is this simple:

I saw the messages.

They were nasty, cruel and in my opinion constituted harassment. We reacted in kind.

Take it how you will. I'm only, y'know, the founder of this message board and sh*t. New folks might not understand, but at one point that meant something.

And furthermore:


This line ALONE, in context of what went down with the Prof, is so offensive I cannot fathom people wouldn't be outraged.

If you're not, search yourself.

Well.

I'll say it again, just to be sure.

Well.

I've read what's left here on the thread (from sundry commets it's obvious that parts have been deleted), and I'm left with this thought.

Charles is admin, and indeed owner of this MB, and as such I take it as a given that he has access to the content of PMs. No problem there.

The problem I have is with an admin who choses to reveal on the board the content, if not the text, of private[/i] conversations between himself and a poster, for whatever reasons (but especially those of self-justification). That violates every principle involved in being an admin, and forces me to the uncomfortable conclusion that the word 'private' has a different meaning here when compared to the rest of the world. This is unacceptable to me, for trust once broken can never be completely restored.

Each time I come back to this site, more and more members are dropping like flies because of silly internet drama. I may not've been here as long as the rest of you all, but it was the people that kept me coming back. It was the people that made me want to contribute my opinions and ask questions and not just be a lurker like I am on so many other boards of interests that pertain to me. I never made one post on the Blueboard, because I didn't like the overall aura and feeling of the board. But here, I post daily.

Or at least I used to. Ridiculous drama which I don't even fully understand from people old enough to know better has lead to a demise of the community that I loved. Sometimes the board was the highlight of my day. Now it's just an afterthought.

Andrew, I may be wrong, but everything I "revealed" in my post was already known.  THAT WAS PART OF MY POINT.  Everytime I've had a private conversation with Laurie, or some others here, it ends up becoming fodder for public conversation and gossip.

I'm sorry you've seen fit to end your time on this board.  I will state again, it's not necessary. 

One more thing before I say goodbye to this insane thread for good...

Jon, the fact that you have banned Chuck from your board and yet have the audacity to come here to his board to attack him speaks volumes about your character.

Cowardly, and so not "rock n roll." :(

While I appreciate Jon speaking out here, Octave, you make a point to consider.

Susan has suggested it would be best if let this be for now.  I believe she may be right, or at least that I shouldn't respond to every accusation from every "guest."  I will repeat this:  I did not harass anyone on this board.  And it is clear to me that there are long standing issues that people have with me that go beyond two private messages I sent to someone here.  Such as, considering one self to be the "founder" of this message board, and declaring parts of the larger web site "lame."  The very existence of this board and site is offensive to some, no matter I say or do.

Also, while I find the declarations of the demise of this site and board to be premature, it is true they are of a limited lifespan, like everything in this world.   If I found it necessary to shut down any part of this Beach Boy experiment, I'd miss it, but my real life would go on.  But I'm not buying the casket just yet.  I've not asked people to pick sides, or used this to grow the membership of my board.  I simply want people to know what they are talking about before they make a decision about me.  I don't want someone's negative opinion of me to be based upon private messages others have chosen to share and talk about.

I will now do my best to say as little as possible.

I'm confused because at one time I got my back up and took people to task because I thought Laurie Arleen was a teenager who was being harrassed and sexually teased with many inappropriate things being done and said in her direction by many people. Because I didn't read every post in every forum, I wasn't aware she was an adult woman and was I made to feel sort of foolish [maybe that was just me] because I didn't know this was supposedly alright because it was supposedly "joking" around.

I'm not taking sides one way or another yet and I don't want to be involved or PMed with anything because if I were I would feel compelled to take it up directly with those involved for clarification and I'm not really feelin' up to it at the mo'. I think everyone needs to turn it down a notch or several and you all work it out. Maybe they already have because I haven't read every post in this or other threads either.

I guess I am foolish.

I think it will be good because this place won't be stunk up w/Ian's farts anymore. A talented wrtier certainly-about every 800th post. And now that he's at the other place, you know it's only a matter of time until he melts down over there about something, and then there will be more drama!

ATTENTION!!! Just to make this clear:

- I have no idea what has happened on these boards while I was away. And to be honest, I don´t even want to know it.

- I will continue to write on both boards, so please don´t attack me for not taking one side or the other, ok?


That´s all.

I'll stick around...theres too much good music talk on this site...people have to be careful that revelaing personal information on the internet is not always a wise thing...I noticed this about certain posters...they spill their whole life on the net and of course people will flock...

Love & Mercy

WOW!  What in the WORLD  happened here????!! ??? :o :o :o  
I guess I have never wandered over to this side of the schoolyard before, I usually just post on the on topic stuff.  I had no idea there was another Smile board or a sandbox.  

a decent night's sleep makes all the difference...two good posts, I plan on stayin...It's not so much that "what happened" was insignificant, although in the bigger scheme of things it might be...it's just that the SS board is so vast,I'm sure there are posters on it who have little if any idea that the Sandbox exploded,sh*t flyin everywhere...

WE NEED THE SANDBOX

Trust me Carly, you don't wanna know...maybe that's what they mean by "ignorance is bliss"

"schoolyard" is right...

electronic lynching.  best post ever.  i agree with it.  octave doctor is the doctor, and the doctor is in.

the smile shoppers up in arms are self-righteous children.

everyone else seems to be cool.  if not, prove it.  if you can't, shove it.

i'm gonna drop this now.  but we'll see if this happens again "laurie".  (i use quotes because i don't know you or jon or charles or ian or anybody, just my computer screen) 

i assume you've taken measures to assure that doesn't happen again.  as an adult, i assume you can take care of yourself.

we'll see.  glad it's a new day.

As a guy that had no idea about any of this drama, I can't comment on what I think happened..  but it DOES
sound strange that so many people have access to the PM's Charles was sending that girl.  It seems she was
forwarding this stuff to a lot of people and that's problematic.

i agree.  this paley/wilson thing was so secret that person number one was ONLY allowed to tell four other people.   ???

time will tell.  if the same thing happens again over there, we'll know what the deal is.   :o

Just want to say that I think Charles has done a wonderful job here and I will certainly stick around.  This board is run much better than the old one was, in my opinion.  And the lynch mob they've gathered over at the new one is appalling.


Love and merci,  Dan Lega

From what I've seen, the reaction to whatever the f*** happened (creeping someone out???) is incomprehensible. Chuck, damn fine board you got here.
I don't get it. Never will, I imagine. People I like, really cool people are deleting their accounts here.

What I Gathered:

Laurie was creeped out by Chuck e-mailing her everyday, and it took a while for her to get up the courage enough to tell him so.

Chuck wasn't e-mailing her everyday out of creepiness, he thought it was a mutual thing, to greet each other everyday and carry on a "behind the scenes" PM relationship.

I would imagine that Arlene suddently felt out of the blue creeped out, because she remembered she had a husband, and she shouldn't be having "behind the scenes" PM relationships with anybody.

So she stops Chuck who thought he was being harmless, by telling him he's making her uncomfortable.  Chuck is mad because he was being harmless, and he's afraid that she'll spin on everybody that the opposite is true.  So he starts mocking her in public by saying that everything is "making him uncomfortable"...because if she was PM'ing him, why wouldn't she be PM'ing others about their PM's!!!

Jesus.  Anyways, here we are today, and we can see what happened and what didn't.

THE END

I don't come into the sandbox that often because I like to keep my nose clean. If it wasn't for this topic, I could have been none the wiser to any of this of apparent controversy. As it is, it has nothing to do with me, so I don't give two bags of sh*t. I was never that fond of the "victim" to begin with, so I'll not spend much time, effort, or emotion, worrying about who is right or who is wrong in this situation.  It's cyberspace, for Christ's sake. Go outside and take a walk.

gotta love the cliffnotes version better than all these pages ;)

Yeah, move that post to a new topic line, The Short Version of what happened.

People can form online friendships, with instant messaging and daily PM's, that has nothing to do with sex or harassment or anything else.  It sounds like Charles thought that was what was going on.  But the bottom line is when someone tells you they're uncomfortable with something you're doing, you have to stop - and there's no point in defending yourself to that person, because being uncomfortable is subjective.  There's no logic involved.  To continue to make posts referring to being uncomfortable, and attacking the person's credibility regarding the previous incident with the Prof, is inappropriate.  You apologize and you stop, that's all.

That said, it seems this whole incident has been blown way out of proportion.  Internet drama for those who don't have enough drama in their real lives I gather.

I agree.  Everyday posts with a married member of the opposite sex?  Even if harmless, BAD IDEA.

I agree, it was the mocking that made Laurie finally come out and tell people about everything.  Mocking.  BAD IDEA.

I agree, BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION.

You kinda have to wonder what the motivation of someone is, when they blow things out of proportion.  Other things at work.  The animosity between Jon/John/Chuck, the deal with the Prof (whatever the hell that was...you see, you don't tell people things, they give things less credence...sorry!), the blind jokes, the photoshop pics, the deleted threads.....yadda yadda

Water under the bridge as long as it's clear that Chuck didn't rape or kill or threaten anybody. 

Laurie just got mad at being mocked (if no one knew about her telling Chuck she was uncomfortable about his daily PM's to her, then who would know Chuck was mocking her?).

Nobody's fault.  Somebody started throwing around terms like "sexual harrassment" though, and that is wrong.  BAD IDEA.  Show me the money, I'll show you there was no "sexual harrassment".  Just Chuck mocking someone, not taking someone seriously, and this other person getting mad about it...and getting revenge by having it be the last straw and inviting Jon/John to start a big ruckus and try to destroy this board they hate.

THE END

that  sounds about right to me mikea...It's the fuckin Internet,I'd wager that half the people on it aren't who they claim to be,the Internet is FULL of wackos (It takes one to know one)...In spite of "her" avatar (which Charles sez he didn't notice) I wouldn't be too surprised to find out that "Laurie" was a lonely over weight white guy with little reason for living (like me)...Except there may be people who have met her IN PERSON, but how would we know for sure...I know I'm contributing to the sh*t but "BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION" barely scatches the surface...

mikea, I would point out that the entire stream of PMs lasted maybe a few days, and were brief in nature, "hello, how are you" type things.  I didn't think it was inappropriate for either of us, spoused or otherwise.  I didn't even know she was married at the time.  That's why I was surprised when she announced she felt "uncomfortable."  And, when it stopped immediately, I was equally surprised to see it come up in conversations, over and over again, and see the story grow.  Now I see that apparently I have called her a "slut," which I never did, and I have said what happened with the Professor was all her fault, which I didn't.  Now it's said I was being "creepy."  And so on.

The complaints related to the "exodus" are fascinating.  It's bad that I have ever deleted a message thread, even though it was normal for message threads to be deleted on the Smile Shop board.  It's bad that I took proactive measures to make sure someone couldn't harass someone for months before being discovered, even though that lack of moderator action was part of what allowed the Professor to do what he did.  For many it appears it really boils down to this: me, this board and this site are going to be offensive by their very existence, no matter what has been said or done.  There have been efforts since the board started to encourage people to leave, and this is just the latest and best selling point.  I also notice Jeff's very good point about the wisdom of having an extended thread about me on a board I'm banned from was completely ignored.

Also, while I appreciate the support I've received, I wouldn't want anyone to make a decision about someone or something without adequate investigation.  I don't encourage anyone to say "so and so told me what happened, and that's good enough for me."  Friendship and loyalty are excellent traits, but you have to decide if an important conclusion should be based only upon what a friend told you or not.  Here again, which board on the internet to use or not use is not exactly an earth shattering decision.

Those PM's can be like playing with fire.  I would venture to say that many of the people who post here have had at least one somewhat regretable experience in the realm of pm's.

I would add that TRUST is a key element in a relationship.  That is especially true when all you have to go on is the printed word of a stranger with a fictitious name and persona.  It takes a leap of faith to enter into an online community and begin to develop some sort of human relationship.

A breach of trust can quickly blow the whole thing.

Let me agree with mikea on this too:  talking to her privately was a bad idea, even if she never complained.  It simply would look inappropriate, and should never have happened.  That's my fault.

Mocking?  I didn't intend to mock anyone, but there again, if I hurt her feelings, that's my fault.

Blown out of proportion?  Definitely.  

Wasn't she a "moderator" or something like that less than a week ago? If she was that unconfortable about Chuck's behaviour (her right, I guess) I guess she'd rather stay away from anything to do with him and just post as any other member.

I think for some reason emotions run very high online.  It's fascinating, psychologically, that we get so involved. 

A friend of mine has a theory about this.  She believes that time online is compressed - that things happen much more quickly here than they do IRL.  So whereas IRL we have time to consider what's happening, to plan actions, to think about WTF is going on, in our online relationships that is not always true.  So events happen more quickly, and we don't get the benefit of the extra [or normal] amount of time to consider them and process them and deal with them.  Therefore our emotions get foda'd around, and things get - wait for it - blown way out of proportion.

BTW - no sides being taken by this poster, neither in public nor in private.  Just so y'know.

I'm not taking any sides, either.  I do feel bad about what's happened.

I think that theory makes sense, I think there is an urgency, and compression that tends to warp reality when dealing online.  I've certainly been effected by that.

I think another thing is that any physicality and body language is totally absent.  Even when you talk on the phone with a family member, you have a visual of them, their quirks and how they move.  But online, there's no reference...but that reference is so important because online we're six generations removed from the other person.

Our thoughts are rendered as speech, which we can render into text.  Then somebody else can read that text, convert it into speech in their head, and then process it.

It's almost like playing the telephone game...every time we type something on a message board.  I think it's a wonder these things work at all.

For what it's worth, I will not choose sides in this matter either
 I don't post a lot (understatement, i know), but I vist this board often.
Although I wasn't on the board when the sh*t hit the fan, I have an idea of what Chuck is going through.  I was wrongfully accused of sexual harassment while I was in 5th grade.  I was guilty without anyone even asking me my side of the story.  She said I did it and that was that.  It was horrible and I don't wish that on anyone.

Well that's enough outta me for now.

-Tim

trying to stay neutral on this one , however if I was a co-admin of a section of the board I would consider behind the scenes private messaging with fellow admins as necessary, even if it was just 'How are you today?' stuff, i always find it helps when I get on with the people I work with.... ;)

Well, I deleted my account two or three weeks ago, mostly because I decided not to spend too much time reading and posting on boards of any kind.  It wasn't like I read and posted much, but I had too much to do to do any of it.  Now, I've got time on my hands, apparently.  I just happened to peruse this board for the first time in weeks, and what do I find?  I don't want Chuck to think I deleted my account on account of this woman.  So, I've re-signed up.  I think any female poster that puts up a photo of herself on an avatar and cyberflirts with guys is a bit suspect (I am female, and had problems when I used to post under my real name on Usenet a long time ago, and learned my lesson).  It's just insane, and I think she was looking for attention.  You only get as much respect as you ask for, and it is different when you're a woman, you need to be careful.  So, don't feel bad, Chuck.  I'm not totally in agreement with everything on this board, including the language censorship, but it has more going for it than many boards.  Keep up the good work.

Oh my fucking hell...this goes beyond silly or even stupid. Grown men and women acting like children on a MESSAGE BOARD. Honestly, I'm ashamed of both sides. You know what is really sad? We all make fun of the sh*t that happens in the world of BW/BB, yet the same crap is happening here. I'm not taking sides, nor will I, because I don't have all the facts? That, and the fact that I *DO NOT CARE*. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, but enough of this nonsense. At the end of the day, the world goes on, blah blah blah. Regardless of who's here, who's not here, whatever, I'm still going to go wherever I want online to find out/discuss info about Brian & the 'Boys music. That's why I'm here. f*** all this other nonsense.

That said, I do have to say one thing about this.


WTF was up with that? I saw the thread in question; hell, I was a (small) part of it. At that time,  I did keep mentioning that if Ian was not allowed to say what Paley did (or did not) tell him in confidence, then it should be left alone. Like I had said, the truth will eventually come out. , and if was personal reasons for Paley himself, and not related to Brian, then who cares? However, I surmised that the discussion continued via PM, and other people were made aware. I kinda wondered about Ian's motives for even bringing it up; if someone asks you to keep something in confidence, you do not throw hints around about it to others, esp. if you know they are going to hound you about it. Now, I *really* wonder about that.

Okay, I've said that, and with that I'm through with this matter.







I hope.

I've been away for a long time now. This kind of crap is the reason why. People have become so involved in this sh*t, this monstrosity we call the internet and message boards and all of that, that I started to feel sorry for the world around me. I had to unplug from all of this and go out and live. And honestly, it's been a great experience. Becoming that involved in all of this internet crap is unhealthy. It was for me anyway. I've done so much and went out and just met people. Formed new real face to face relationships, met a girl, wrote music under the beautiful blue sky, experienced all kinds of nature, and just got away from everything that is this (myspace doesn't count considering it's just pretty much become my email account now, and how I stay in touch with my personal friends).

Sides will be not taken in my case, because in my typical blunt honesty: I don't give a f***. This is the internet, no one is showing up at anyone else's house and stalking them or causing physical harm in anyway. If someone is feeling harassed, it's pretty damn easy to make it stop.

Leave.

Which is what it looks like has happened. Problem solved, it won't happen anymore and whoever is wrong and whoever is right doesn't matter anymore. There's no sense in pointing fingers and bickering when it's not going to do a damn bit of good to the situation. If people want to leave, let em. For those who want to stay, great. It's still just a message board on the internet. It is sad that what was once the greatest thing on the world wide web has become what it has. That's not in anyway blaming anyone for anything, but it's obvious why the old guard left and didn't come back a long time ago. It feels like Jr. High. I was never a big contributer to either sites, but the friendships I've formed with guys like Chris D., George Duss, and the soap opera that was Ian and myself going at eachother constantly until a mutual respect developed out of it has been totally worth it.


Spot on H. Another example why your the most well thought and relevant dude who's ever graced the Smile/Smiley shop. Whether you think much of me or not, I've learned a lot from you over the years. Thanks.

If you want to blast me for any of my comments, go ahead.

After all, it's just a message board.

And H's point about the huge generation gaps is very relevant. A lot of people my age have a sense of humor that would be very offensive to older generations and people with very high morals. It's almost impossible to be a smart ass without offended at least one person who isn't hip to the joke. It is indeed a wonder that these things work at all.

Alright, I'm done. See everyone on the other side. It was a fun ride since 2001, but it's just not fun anymore.

good to hear from ya Nez. I started a "Where is Nez?" thread the other day, but it's gone now.

i agree with billy and nez

or as i like to cvall them

nezilly

:X

Damn, I love this thread.  Especially these last few pages.  I go over to that other board and feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.  Here, I don't have to read people explain around common sense.

Nez has been having a splended time. Thanks for the thoughts J. I hope your peter Gabriel love has grown and continues to grow.

I don't want to be involved but I'd hate to think I/we sat oblivious to some problem: Are other women being harrassed by anyone through this board?

There is that model that people post pictures of every few posts...

I'm afraid you have me confused with another poster, Nez.

f***, I've been away so long I don't even know what's going on anymore. Sorry about that.

whoa now...I know a lot has been said and hostilities have come to a head, but Mike...doncha think that kinda direct attack is over the line?

Edit: not to mention, unneccessary?

hahahahaha this is the most ridiculously unnecessary post of the day.  pretty friggin funny though.

Assholes, you all are, yess.

Mike Lovestein's comments are exactly what's wrong with the board and what the fuss is all about.  And you're not a wack job spending all your time on a message board?  People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  And look at all the avatars people around here use - real images of the posters is kind of the exception, isn't it?  How do you even know that LaurieArleen's avatar is a picture of her?

I've never witnesses John and Jon "ganging up" on anybody - they put up with more sh*t on the board than they should have, in my opinion, before finally banning those who deserved to be banned.

If crap like Lovestein's comments are now acceptable here, I guess I'll give up on the board as well.

Wow that was a long 10 pages...this is why I stay out of the sandbox and stick with the musical stuff.

Y0 Y0,
T0 3V3RY H0 0N TH4 W3B
PR1V4T3 4V4T4RZ SH0ULD 3QU4L 3Z H34D
N PL34S3 4CC3PT TH1Z PM W1T D1R3CT10NZ 2 M4H B3D
CUZ 2N1T3'Z TH4 N1T3, N0 M4TT3R WUT U R34D

JUST G0T 2 R3M1ND U TH4T TH1Z 1Z TH4 1NT3RN3T,
N 1T SH0 41N'T R34L
U PL4Y TH4 CRY1N G4M3, 1 FL4SH TH4 VE4L
3V3RY 800TH P0ST N 1 BR34K TH4 S34L
4PPR3C14T0N THR34DZ S0 G4Y
U D0N'T N33D M0B M3NT4L1T13Z 2 S4Y, "H333333333Y!"
1F U B3L13V3 M4ZZ 3X0DUZ W1LL H34L

BUBB4 H0-T3PZ, 1 KN0W U H4T3 TH4 W1F3
JUST L1K3 L0V3ST31NZ W0ULD G1V3 L4N3 N HUNT L1F3
U 3V3R M3T M1K3 HUNT, CUZ 1 KN0W H3'D R3L13V3 UR STR1F3
JUST G3L UP UR H4ND N D0 WUT 1 S4Y
Y4'LL M1GHT S33 TH4 0UTS1D3 W0RLD 1 D4Y

TH1S FL0W 1S 0V4 N 1 G0T 2 G0
BUT L3T 3V3RY B4BY G1RL N B0Y KN0W
D3L3T3D M3M0R13Z R 3N0UGH 4 M3
WH0 N33DZ M0D3R4T10NZ WH3N THURR 41N'T N0 H1ST0RY
JUST 1GN0R3 UR FR13NDS WH1L3 U R0LL UP TH4 SL33V3
CUZ ST3PH3N D3SP3R 1S H3R3 4 U N H3'LL N3V3R L34V3

Refresh my memory-- other than the Professor, who else did they ban?


It's not a matter of his comments being acceptable.  I don't agree with the tenor of them, and I don't agree with his comments on contributions.  I have no ill will towards Jon, John, or anyone else who left, no matter what was done or what is being said.  We are to forgive each other for our trespasses. 

If Mike had said what he said on any other part of the board, it would be a more serious issue.  But your reaction reminds me of the confusion that is part of this "exodus."  Some of them were mad that I moderated at all, mad that I ever censored language, deleted a message or a thread. Some were made that I allowed this part of the board to exist.  Some who have said I have been wrong to edit or delete threads have also said more than once 'if i were chuck, that thread would be gone.'  Confusion indeed.

So, no, Mike's post remains here not because it's been deemed "acceptable."  Right now, any moderating I do on this thread would only be fodder for more gossip and attacks.

Plus, while I can't subscribe to what Mike said, I also can't subscribe to the continuing misrepresentations.  The people who lay out their accusations now turn this into a running gag, as if an attempt to convince people I'm a sick, passive aggressive, harasser of women, is funny.  It's said I hate the Smile Shop, when I've shown no ill will towards the efforts to revamp that site or board.  It's being said I'm not a real Christian. 

So, no, Mike's post remains here not because it's been deemed "acceptable." 

Thanks, Chris.  Though I have to admit, I have no idea what "flashing the veal" means. 

I have to admit this is very entertaining...if anyone showed misguided behaviour...and people were offended...then they can cast their stones...if someone was naive enough to think that they could reveal personal feelings and info on the web and not get hurt...was naive...really...they need to go for a walk in the park...

I doubt she ever was.  Charles is just her new patsy.  You can't trust a person with that credibility.
She is the common item in both "harrassment" cases.  What does that tell you?

One day, Old Bean and Old Rake arrived..  with that Joseph Castrano fella that wrote in code.
There was a time when every single post of mine was ripped apart by the two dandy's.  If I
started a thread (a couple about Weezer were affected by this), they would hijack it and troll
it to death.  They would also make crude sexual jokes about me and my lady.  The mods
wouldn't do anything about it and then someone told me Jon Hunt was one of the Old Baggs.

Swamp Pirate, please email me at smileysmiledotnet@gmail.com.  I need to discuss some stuff with you.

BTW, thank you to those who have emailed me to complain about Lovestein's posts on this thread.  Again, I don't agree with the tone or content of his messages.  I don't plan, however, to delete what he has said, out of respect to those who have left due to unhappiness with messages and threads being deleted.  No more than I plan to delete Chris' post.

Thanks for the shout out. I'm not sure what you are telling me, but I'll take it as a compliment. I enjoy your posts as well, and hope we can continue to have a good time here on the board.

I think this episode has run it's course. I'm heading back to the on-topic discussions and getting down to business.....

Chuck, PM me at Shut Down and I will respond to you when I get home tonight.

You know, i have to jump in.  What i'm seeing here is just wrong.  People who have stated that they know nothing about what really happened are passing judgement on the people involved, and that just defies explanation.

Yes, the same person has been at the center of both "harassment" incidents, but it makes me a little sick to see people who have been complete bystanders suddenly start hammering her.  That's not right.  If you are not privy to all of the facts - by first-hand knowledge, not by hearsay - then it's libelous to make the kinds of statements i'm reading here.  What we might believe is one thing; what we KNOW is something else altogether.

I will have to email you, Swamp.  I can't PM you on Shut Down.

Okay.  I won't be able to do anything until tonight.

I'll second what Susan said.  Like I said over at Smile Shop this morning, enough's enough.  Everyone needs to take a step back.  Blasting off on Laurie here or Chuck over there at this point serves no real constructive purpose other than to exacerbate what is already a bad situation.  All it does is validate what one side already thinks of the other. 

People make mistakes.  People forgive.  People heal.  People move on.

Charles is a nice guy.

But I'm not. And I have no problem tearing some jerk a new a-hole.  I'm not going to stand back and watch him get ganged up on and bad mouthed.

But I've decided to delete my posts because I don't want to lower the standards of the board.

I hope they don't think that this will blow over and they'll be welcome back here.

Scum.

We should keep a sticky on the "Resign Thread" and add Chris D to it, that way we won't forget what a-holes they are. Then we should change the name from "Resign Thread" to "Banned Scumbags."

Wow.  The place clears out a little, and the real psychos come out of the woodwork.  Dr. Octave, Heywood Floyd, et al; you really need help.  You're coming across as a scary group of hateful sociopaths.  Glad I left.

Glad you're gone.  If you left, how about you stay away this time?

Takes a big man to post anonymously.

It's done. Over. A week from now, nobody will care. Swamp said it best,though.

The only thing I regret about all of this was AGD leaving, as I enjoyed the knowledge he brought with him, even if I disagreed with some of his opinions. Well, at least Desper, Boyd, and Linnett are still here.

I just wrote a 6 page paper on Buddy Holly.

My fingers and brain are too tired to contribute to this.

If you were AGD, everytime somebody had a question about Buddy Holly, you'd be disgusted they didn't reference your paper first.

Please allow me the privilege of having the last word on this thread.

The most important thing I can say is this:  all of this, all of these boards, bands, music, etc. means nothing compared to the fate of your soul.  The most important question you can ever ask is "Who is Jesus?"  After that, when you have resolved that question, and the answer has led you into the family of God, everything else is secondary.

I'm pleased to see that things have quieted down so quickly.  The main parts of this board are very active, and the off topic area is almost completely unused.  The drama that has hung over this board ever since the Smile Shop was temporarily shut down has dissipated.  We've been given yet another opportunity to start over, and so far it has a sweeter taste than I could have imagined, given what led to it.

There are some who left because they felt it wrong that I, the administrator of this board, publicly discussed private messages in a public thread.  I understand their point and I appreciate they feel I did something an administrator should not do.  I've made this point before, and I will do it again:  I did my best to keep a private matter private.  My private messages were consistently being shown to other people, and once people decided to post, on this board, public messages stating I was harassing someone via a private message, I had no choice but to respond publicly.  Harassment is not a trivial accusation.  People go to jail for it.  Not responding would have been received as a concession to an action I did not commit.

Like others, I can appreciate the irony of the complaints about deleting messages or message threads, only to see the message threads about me on two different boards deleted today.  I appreciate the irony of being called passive-aggressive, when it was passive-aggressive behavior like publicly praising this board while railing against it in private that led to this nonsense.  Just the same, holding onto grudges only poisons the person clinging to the anger.  I encourage everyone to not use friendship or loyalty as excuses to wrap yourself in spite.  Use what has happened as a means to form better alliances, and not as a justification to create more division.

I reiterate to anyone who chose to left:  I did not ask anyone to leave, and I've not told anyone they can't participate on this board.  It's clear some who left were never happy here, for a variety of reasons, and in those cases, they've clearly made the best choice possible.  I do hope that anyone who wants to come back understands they are welcome to return and participate.  And I hope that everyone who left knows they have nothing but my best regards.  Again, there's no point in the continuing grudges that only lead to further anguish.

Specifically to Laurie:  I'm sorry about what has been said about you since this past weekend.  My intention was never to create a public situation where people who do not know you would judge you.  Unfortunately, when a private situation becomes public, ugliness is certain to follow.  It's clear now that I should have taken a firmer and clearer position on the bickering and sniping on this board a long time ago, and I'm sorry if any action or non action on my part has led to any unearned grief on your part.

Soon, hopefully, I will be handing over the daily operations of this message board to some capable people who have volunteered to manage things.  I will still be here, posting, reading, but I will not be the administrator, having to involve myself in every detail of the board.  This will give me more time with my wife and children, and everything else I do out in the "real" world.  It will give me more time to work on the Smiley Smile web site.  And it will also give some who left a choice to make:  if you left because you couldn't be on a message board I was running, will you stay away from a board I'm not running?

I'm going to freeze this topic, not out of censorship, but because this topic has run its course.  I will not delete this thread, however, at least not yet.  Not when the a charge as serious as harassment still lingers.  This will serve as an explanation to anyone who may hear the rumors and gossip down the road as to what really happened.  Plus, I wouldn't want anyone to think I deleted the thread to "hide evidence."  If anyone has any comments or questions concerning what has happened, please email me or send me a private message.

Thank you all for making this board and site the best it can be.  Thanks for participating every day.  And don't forget to use all the other Beach Boys sites and boards on the Internet; they each have their own special flavor and each add something special to the world of Beach Boy fandom, including the Smile Shop.  I may not be able to participate there, but you can, and you should, not to start an argument, but to enjoy the knowledge and wisdom of those who regularly post there.

God bless you all, and goodnight.

ADDENDUM, written March 22 2006

After some threads on this topic were started and deleted on the Male Ego and Smile Shop boards, I've had some questions asked of me and some statements made that require addressing.

1.  Jeff Mason state on the Smile shop "two boards has always been a pain, but I have done it because not every one came over to the Smile Shop... and Jon, I feel awful now. If I had known you were truly p**sed and still were, I would have left months ago. I would never have come back. I apologize if that was wrong."  I can vouch, after, per my wife's suggestion, reading messages from what is left of the original Smiley Smile board, Jeff, Jon and John, and others, were not happy with my decision to start my own message board and welcome what was the former Smile Shop community into it.  And while some were not happy with the months of activity that led to the "exodus," there were other agendas in action.

2.  Jon Busey-Hunt stated on the Smile Shop, "I understand wanting to know what went down, and wanting to understand fully before pulling the trigger. Its a tough row to hoe as it were because Chuck is going to do whatever he can to prevent folks from knowing what happened, deleting threads and all that, and it comes down to basically his word against ours."  This was stated in a thread that Jon deleted.  Jon on a regular basis deleted threads on the Smile Shop board when I hosted it.  By leaving this thread up, I've actually done everything I can to make certain folks can know what happened.

3.  Ian/Tommy stated to Jeff Mason on the Smile Shop, "He said you were happy about my banning, among other things. Not that I believed him, because I didn't."  Actually, I told Ian that Jon Hunt told me when I banned Ian briefly last year that he agreed with my decision.  While I do not have the messages Jon sent me, I have the replies I sent him, and it's clear in them that Jon asked for Ian's email and IP addresses so he could likewise ban him from the new Smile Shop board.  Obviously, things have changed, and Ian is currently welcome on both boards. 

4.  One person who left this board stated he did so because, as an administrator, I should not have discussed private messages I sent or received under any circumstances.  However, when the party receiving the PMs states on Male Ego "I showed two abusive messages from the Smiley Board Administrator to a few trusted and respected friends and asked them to be witnesses," and also states "when someone in a position of authority (i.e. the Board Administrator) is sending abusive and yes, sexually harrassing messages to a member, I feel that justifies that member asking for outside help from trusted friends in that forum community," and when those PMs became public discussion here, I had no choice but to discuss them as well. 

5.  Let this be clear:  Jon Hunt learned I was able to read private messages as soon as I discovered I was able to.  This was not some shocking discovery months later. 

Unfortunately, since anonymous posters on the Male Ego board continue to malign both Laurie and myself with lies and misconceptions, this probably won't be the last time I have to add to this final post.