The Smiley Smile Message Board

Any time I ask someone if they're a Beach Boys fan and they say no or talk sh*t on them for any reason I always notice something- They NEVER have a valid reason and when I ask  them what they listen to it's always something horrible like some kinda alternative metal sh*t, hip-hop, or some kinda hippie bs. Anyone encounter this kinda situation?

It is the curse of being a Beach Boy fan.

Talk to anybody who lived through the '60s and 9 out of 10 will answer they like the Beach Boys.

Talk to anybody 30 or under and 9 out of 10 will struggle to name 3 Beach Boy songs, nevermind give a vaid opion on them.

This is not unique to just the BB's, see also The Beatles, Pink Floyd, The Eagles, The Hollies, Fleetwood Mac etc...........

I'm 40. Very few people in my generation like the Beach Boys. The reaction to 'beach boys' is nearly always negative, scornful and dismissive. I have known one guy of my own generation personally who liked the Beach Boys; when he told me ten years or so ago, my reaction was negative, scornful and dismissive, even when he played me a few songs from Pet Sounds and I had to admit that they were pretty good, I still didn't get over my prejudice.

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Surely this is largely a generational thing.

Folk whose musical consciousness developed before the 60s probably preferred Chuck Berry, and moaned that the new kids only liked the Beach Boys and the Beatles. So the way to seduce* a 60s cute chick was to mention how Berry influenced the BBs and the Beatles. And the way to seduce a 50s chick was to show how Berry was influenced by T Bone Walker. And the way to seduce a 40s chick was to talk knowingly of how Blind Lemon Jefferson influenced T Bone.

And so it goes on forever and ever...

* Apologies for this phrase, it's my shorthand for "trick cute girls into giving [insert artist's name here] a chance"!

 I got into the Beach Boys in 75/76 when I was around 12.  It was a struggle....ha.
 The thing is ,when I was in high school, I went to a BB concert and who should I sit by?  Two kids from my high school. I also witnessed a fellow student buying a short stack of BB cassettes at the local mall.   My point being, they may scoff,but everyone digs the Beach Boys.

Growing up in the late 1980s, early 1990s with a constant exposure to a mix of top 40 and classic rock/soul radio, the Beach Boys were mainly riding the wave that Kokomo spawned. They were always cool to me as a kid, even as I got into more "hip" (hate that term, but whatever) stuff later on. As a kid I always used to find the harmonies cool, and I sort of identified with the nasal tones of the frontman. It was cocky...a window into a new but familiar place. The Beach Boys were never uncool to me and as far as I was and am concerned, I couldn't care less if people get them or not. I do, and that's enough for me.

I think Beach Boys fans tend to be just as unfairly judgmental and ignorant of certain other music as non-Beach Boys fans are in their dislike of the Beach Boys. Not always, of course. But often. It's even in the question, dismissing things like hip hop or "hippie bs" as inherently inferior to the Beach Boys (both of which the Beach Boys dabbled in at various times, with varying degrees of success). It's just not that big a deal: if music doesn't strike you the right way early on, you may not like it, and you may not be interested in spending a lot of time re-listening to identify precisely why. Granted, you may miss out on what could be a rewarding experience if that's the case--I disliked the Beach Boys from the ages of, say, 10 to 22. Then I rediscovered and discovered them, much to my pleasure and benefit. But it's no big deal if I don't, and it's not wrong not to. Just like it's no big deal if someone else didn't immediately take to or further investigate and fall in love with hip hop or hippie bs.

Indeed. It's all relative - if I were a screamo-metal fan, I'd be asking myself how can anyone not like this!?

I have noticed that many of us Beach Boys fans have very open minds towards other types of music. Whereas most people I know who are hardcore rap fans are solely into rap. Most people I know who are hardcore metal fans are solely into metal.

Not saying were inferior music lovers (nor that only Beach Boys fans have this variety of tastes), but we sure do keep an open mind when it comes to enjoyment of this artform.

For one, people who limit themselves to one "genre" essentially deprive themselves of different sounds of music, different tastes, other ideas in the art form. I get the same kind of enjoyment out of, say, Scott Walker, Tom Waits, Emperor, Woody Guthrie, Charles Mingus, Serge Gainsbourg, and Laghonia that I get out of the Beach Boys. If it's your taste then that's great. But the world is bigger than the Beach Boys, something I think a lot of BBs fans seem to forget, hence the stereotype that Beach Boys fans listen to nothing but.

Since when do you need a valid reason to not like a certain kind of music?

I don't share that observation. Don't get me wrong--a lot of people around here and elsewhere whom I know to be Beach Boys fans do have open minds and diverse tastes. But the majority? A larger proportion than serious enthusiasts of any other band or style? I doubt it. Significant contingents here seem almost exclusively in favor of mid 60s now-classic rock, for example. Everything else, unless it blatantly emulates those old favorites, are disparaged mercilessly. Is it open mindedness to like the Beach Boys AND the Beatles? Dylan? Byrds? I'd say hardly!

Nevertheless, I think its fair to say a lot of people do not give the beach boys their fair shake; while I think it's true that you can certainly say the same about hip-hop, I still think that's slightly different.

Suffice it to say that in my opinion and in my experience there is something 'uncool' about the Beach Boys that puts people off and doesn't really have a whole lot to do with their music. I think that not giving hip-hop a chance is not because it's 'not cool', but rather for other factors.

The reasons why they are so 'uncool' has been analysed many times on this board and can pretty much be blamed on them.

And yes, I realize that cool is subjective, but I think that they are kind of 'uncool' for people who consider themselves cool. People who don't care about that might like them as far as they know them.

 On the other hand I will admit that their music, especially in the early days, was very distinct and had a strong identity--it really sounds like nobody else, despite the obvious influences, and that might also put some people off.

Agree. And guilty as charged -  my "diverse taste" covers everything, from the Beach Boys to Brian Wilson, Van Dyke Parks  to Gary Usher, Dennis Wilson to Al Jardine. See the variety. For many years my taste radar rarely went any further than Jan & Dean, Sagitarrius, Bruce Johnston, et al. Have expanded slightly in the last decade to include Dylan, Springsteen, the Beatles, Neil Young and a handful of others, but aside from a little folk, a little blues and jazz, I'm still mostly hung up and obsessed by BBs and related works and anything else falls under the radar of classic rock. Perhaps if I lived 'til I was 1000 years old I'd've caught up on the rest of the genres and decades but deep down I suspect there's enough music within my narrow mindset to keep me entertained until I expire!

I hope you don't mean my comments as criticisms, Wee Helper. As time goes on, I just don't care what anyone likes or doesn't: I just consider it important for people to grant one another the same respect of their tastes as they want granted to themselves. In this context, if you want people to respect your Beach Boys fanaticism, you grant them their Beach Boys dislike or apathy. As you said, there is so much music out there, it is impossible to hear anywhere near all of it, much less critically evaluate and develop some kind of taste around it all. So we do what we can, or what we want, with it all. Music is good if it is successful at meeting some need or desire, be it highbrow, lowbrow, or whatever else. If there is a right answer--which I do not believe there to be--it is unknowable and unprovable.

I'd venture to guess that there are no more than two mentions of The Beach Boys in the "what are you listening to right now" thread. There are postings of Jazz, electronica, alternative, folk, classical. Granted, I know it is a vocal minority of people who post on that thread. Anywho, my initial point was that I have noticed that many here are open-minded about music...and I still believe that.

I don't know anyone who doesn't like BBs.  However, I know very few people who are crazed fans of their music like we are (see how I'm speaking for everyone here!)  Most of my friends are neither here nor there about it.  They won't go out of their way to hear or discuss a Beach Boys song, but if one comes on the radio they might say, "hey that's a cool song" and they might even sing along.  But that's about it. 

I think I actually bore some people when I start talking about Pet Sounds or SMiLE, or whatever.

This.

I detested the Beach Boys until about 6 years ago (I am 36 now). Most people I talk to like a few songs ok. But the funny thing is that most people I find out who really like them are typically 20 something musicians/artists/writer types. The hipsters. The ones who are into Radiohead and The Flaming Lips.

I'm open to other genres of music and to hearing anything anyone wants to show me. I'm a big punk rock advocate, specially the Ramones and the Queers. I just feel bad for someone that can't or wont appreciate the Beach Boys, it's deprivation as far as I'm concerned.

There's a fantastic little entry into the 33 1/3 book series written by Carl Wilson (no, not that one) entitled "Let's Talk About Love: A Journey to the End of Taste". Given that it's a part of a book series on specific albums, it's ostensibly about the Celine Dion album "Let's Talk About Love". However, what you get is a mind-opening treatise on why people become fans of certain performers and styles. Mr. Wilson investigates his own need to try and justify his tastes to others and reaches a conclusion, not unlike Luther, that it ultimately matters little that your tastes are shared by friends, family or strangers. By the end of the book, Mr. Wilson is still not much of a Celine Dion fan, but his journey really made me think about why I champion certain musicians over others.

I believe there is something unique about the Beach Boys in that a portion of their audience may be there strictly for the fun-in-the-sun hits while another part of the audience would be thrilled to hear "Vegetables" or "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" and still another subsection of the audience would respond best to "Cuddle Up". While this split in the audience must exist for a band like the Beatles as well, it seems like most fans would respond equally to "She Loves You" as they would to "Strawberry Fields Forever", that the band wouldn't divide the audience like the Beach Boys have. I suspect Pink Floyd might also have that Beach Boys-effect in that Syd Barrett fans would more appreciate the early work, Gilmour fans would be drawn more to UMMAGUMMA and post-Waters whereas Waters fans would choose THE WALL as the ultimate work.

Anyway, I agree it's pointless to criticize someone who dislikes the Beach Boys while dismissing their taste in hip-hop or metal.

Not at all, I didn't read any criticism into it, just fact.  My own narrow minded musical tastes have always been a secret source of shame in a way! I AM prejudice against some of the advocates of music I hear nowadays, especially vocal bands that don't harmonise, and vocalists who rely on Auto-Tune to vocalise. Yet it's okay for 60s BW & the BBs to speed up their vocal deliveries to cover-up their own shortcomings!!

I also, rightly or wrongly, associate different styles of music with different styles of anti-social behaviour. EG: Rightly or wrongly I associated 70s UK punk music with fancy dress, spitting in public and disrespect for normal folk.  I couldn't hear beyond the image, if you get my drift.

I'm more than happy in my own musical pool these days though, which has widened plenty I might add, and you're righjt -  so long as music makes folk of every type happy, why should I worry!

Sorry, one too many beers with my steak and ale pie!

There is no such thing, sir.

I think the problem is most people don't like music that much. They mostly stick to obvious singles. I like the stories behind things, I like knowing about the session musicians and producers and history behind things. Everyone else I know isn't like that. I have friends that laugh at me when I suggest that The Beach Boys even has as much merit as The Beatles. Those same friends don't really even like The Beatles that much, they don't know the names of 75% of Beatles songs, and mostly stick to "Come Together". Studying music, tracking down old out of print LPs, reading biographies, listening to albums all the way through again and again. That's work, people don't like work. They'd rather just stick to singles.

Kook, that's why it takes cool people like you to beat that.  That happens to me too, but I've done the Beach Boys well in my lifetime.

If it comes up, It goes something like this

Them - "The Beach Boys?  What?"

Me - "Oh yeah mean.  They're the greatest.  Awesome band"

Them - "Are you kidding me?"

Me - "Nope... who doesn't love the Beach Boys?"

Them - "I ... du...."

Me - "Are you crazy?  Little Deuce Coupe?  California Girls?  Good Vibrations?  Nobody's on their level"

Them ' I guess'

Me - "You'll get it someday.  One of the greatest bands of all time"

Refuse to back down man.  Don't let somebody tell you what's good and what's not good, there isn't a person ALIVE that can say that California Girls isn't a great song.  If they make any kind of argument suggesting otherwise, you'll be able to debate it and win.  Just challenge them when they talk negative about the boys, the end result will always be, eventually, they'll have to admit they were fucking AWESOME

California Girls isn't a great song. And I'm not just saying that to be cheeky.

It is a great song, timeless, and will be for many decades to come.  It's also the best Mike Love lead vocal, ever.

There are a few songs-like California Girls, Fun, Fun, Fun, LDC- I've heard so much that I'm sick of them. So I guess yeah, at one time I thought it was great, and it probably is still great, I'm just sick of hearing it.  And the fact that I grew up when MTV was THE thing to watch 24/7, and they played David Lee Roth's version of it into the ground. That didn't help.

So are you saying you think the SONG sucks, or just Roth's version?

Geez, I'd hate to think of what you'd feel about tunes from Top 40 radio of the 60's. Those songs were in rotation constantly. A song like Layla, played to death by me and radio stations; just because I'm sick of hearing it, doesn't mean that it still isn't a great song. California Girls is a great song. It is The Beach Boys signature song. When a song is still well known 45 years after it was a hit, then it qualifies as a great song.

See, you fell for it.  Now I can completely write you off as being full of crap.  Everybody knows California Girls is a great song.  Hell even Katy Perry knows California Girls is a great song. 

I think you should apologize to California Girls for saying earlier in this post that it isn't great.  Kiss and make up.