The Smiley Smile Message Board

In the end, even snubbing the avid fans over "Smile" won't have any detrimental effect on Brian, Mike, Bruce & Al's ability to make a living....even a very lucrative living. The people who go to Al's shows & the Mike/Bruce "Beach Boys" shows only want to hear the 1962-65 Surf, Car & Summer Fun songs, and Al, Mike & Bruce deliver them. And Brian, being the primary songwriter has the biggest royalties checks of any Beach Boy. He could quit playing, writing & recording after fulfilling the Disney contract and retire in comfort.
                              As for those of us who like Brian & The Beach Boys' more "artistic" creations(though I like the early songs too), we are clearly in the minority. The recent "Smile" fiasco has the potential to permanently alienate this segment of the audience, so that this segment of the audience turns away in disgust, but the economic reality is that it is the fans who prefer the surf, car & summer fun songs that are the majority. All the surviving members can snub the "Smile" fans and happily(and successfully) continue their performing and recording careers. The sort of people who post on forums such as these mean nothing, commercially, to the surviving "Beach Boys" members.

...and...here...we...GO!

and so I turn off the computer, gaze sadly at the four stone walls of my hovel: the flimsy plastic remnants of the Beach Boys 67-80 work: all that is left to comfort me  :'(

Neither does Phil Spector.

Shh. Don't tell Brian...

Let's be real here.  I like the current incarnation(s) of the Beach Boys.  I like Brian's solo stuff, Al and Mike's live shows.  I think a smile release would be exciting.  But at the end of the day, I'm in it for the records.  Those records were made 30-50 years ago.  The people who made them are transformed almost beyond recognition.  But those records, on vinyl, on CD, on computers and mp3 players, from Surfer Girl to Love You, will be around until the end of time.  Certainly for the rest of my life.  So I'm not worried about anything when it comes to the Beach Boys.  I have the music, frankly, and that's more than enough, more than we ever deserved from these 6 or 8 hardworkin' guys.

Thank you Phil for pointing our insignificance.

Glad you put in the disclaimer on "end of time" and shortened it to "rest of my life".    Its good to get perspective.  Even the best pop doesn't survive much beyond it's generation or maybe their children.  But given.......the Beach Boys are still going strong after 50 years and they have a huge catalogue.
They may well outlast the Beatles.

I hope so. I realize the Beatles were good, but the Beach Boys were far better. Unfortunately, the Beatles just so happen to split at the exact right moment.  I wonder how the BB would be looked at if they had called it quits after Holland. Or hell, after the fight on Al's birthday.

That the real kicker question for all of us.

I'd be inclined to think they'd be right up there with the Beatles recognition wise if Holland had been the last album. But then again what followed is a big part of why we love them and why they're so fascinating.

We're like corks on the ocean....

I've ranted about it in the past, but the biggest mistake people make when this type of discussion rolls around is that they assume that one form of music is more 'artistically' valuable than another.  They always want to discredit popularity as being useless.  Humans like to categorize things, because it helps us understand them.  So the die hard Beach Boy fan does the following:

 - Hears "I Get Around", likes it, and everybody else does too.  It's huge.  #1 hit.

- Hears "Time to get Alone", likes it, and wonders why nobody else does, even though it's just as good as "I Get Around".

- Eventually reconciles this mystery in ther mind, by saying that popularity isn't important.  Therefore, it makes sense in their mind that a song can be great and not popular at the same time...

- Eventually gets to the point where they think anything popular is crap and only songs nobody's heard of are artistically valuable.

The beach boys, ALL of them, including Mike who's the easiest target, are all musicians, and all artists.  Mike is not all about the money, and neither are any of the rest of the Beach Boys.  They created "I Get Around" just like they created "Time to get Alone" or whatever your favorite pet song is, and are probably just as content to sing either.  If the fans mainly want to hear the more popular stuff, they do their fans a great service by playing them what they want to hear.

It's just sad that people think that the guys have changed, or sold out, or whatever when what they're ultimately doing is pleasing their fans by the masses.  The single most important thing a musician (who is an artist) can do, is touch as many people as possible.  The Beach Boys have done this, in a big way, for a long, long time.  Mike, Al, Bruce, Brian, Carl, Dennis have all done a great deal for society and the world in general.  

I'm dead serious!  

I wasn't alive back then, so I am only speculating here - the Beatles had 21 number-one hits in America (27 worldwide). The Beach Boys had 4.....ALL before Holland. I highly doubt the Beach Boys would have gotten Beatle-esque recognition even if they had quit after Holland.

Well put!

insert weak oldsurferdood Mike insult here: ________________________________________-

Kokomo came out in 1988, so that was after Holland.

The Beatles achieved a worldwide sense of fame and created a general hysteria that will be hard for any group or artist to surpass.  I think the fact that the Beach Boys were able to have any number one hits during that period is impressive.

I think that the Beach Boys achieved a certain sense of indelibility within popular culture, especially with their early hits, that a lot of the music the Beatles recorded doesn't have in quite the same way.  My seven-year old neighbor knows all the words to Surfin' USA, but he probably couldn't name me a Beatles tune.  Perhaps that's just an American phenomenon though.

my god does philcohen overreact or what. 

did i miss this smile fiasco?  is he talking about how al ran his mouth and had to recant?

Insert weak oldsurferdude Mike insult here: ____________________________

Ideally, an artist has or should have an obligation, and usually a desire, to do full justice to his/her talent and potential, above and beyond any commercial motivations.  Of course they usually have to walk a fine line there, and make compromises for the sake of financial survival. The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson are in the fortunate position of being able to afford to ignore those commercial considerations, but have their own criteria, such as what music they most enjoy making, and what will please the largest # of people. One view would be that Brian owes it to himself and his musical legacy to authorize the complete (as complete as possible anyway) closure on the Smile legend that an official "sessions" release would provide, even beyond the significant closure that BWPS represented, which is not to be minimized. This could be accomplished while still touring and pleasing the "masses". He and the Beach Boys could afford to do justice to both their mainstream musical direction and the more artistic efforts that Smile is the epitome of, and owe it to themselves to do so, IMO. Phil Cohen's statement about their motivations seems a bit jaded and I hope it is not representative of the attitudes of the principals involved.

Of course I also am very satisfied with the music they have released during the last 50 years, but that doesn't mean that a superbly conceived and executed deluxe Smile set, hopefully with unheard material from private collections or wherever it may be that finally sees the light of day, would not be the icing on the proverbial cake! :)

The Beach Boys don't need avid fans to enrich their lives with money, but other people need avid Beach Boys fans to show them the world outside 409 and Little Deuce Coup. I like introducing new people to The Beach Boys, and being an avid fan, because I can enrich their lives and show them music that's always been there, that's beautiful, and that can make you feel more emotion than almost any other music. I'm an avid fan for myself, and for others.

I missed the "fiasco" too.  

There is no fiasco.  Bottom line... Announcing the release of Smile is the job of (1) the Capitol public relations department; or (2) Brother Records Inc.; or (3) Brian Wilson; or (4) Two or more of the previous three.

Snubbing... fiasco ?  Sure, it wasn't the brightest thing that Alan's ever done, but bottom line is - and I'll keep saying this until it takes root - no-one directly concerned except Alan has said "no, not going to happen".  I'll lay Steve Hoffman's claim to one side for the time being, as I think he's mistaken: I obviously don't know where he's getting his scoop, but I'd question it if only on basic principles.

As for permanently alienating the likes of us - please, Phil: we've had this scenario one way or another since 1967. Do I look alienated ?

As I've said before, if come 11.59pm on 12/31/11 some kind of Smile set isn't nestling either on my shelves or in the electronic bowels of my laptop, I'll hold my hands up and say "I'm as wrong as a wrong thing in the final of the world wrongness championship". But I don't think I will be.

Let's not jump the gun, here - I don't think Al saying Smile's coming out, and then retracting the statement, qualifies as fan snubbing although it is a bit frustrating for many of us here. I also don't agree that the Beach Boys don't need the type of fans that populate this board. Brian in particular makes a good living from promoting his mythology, just look at BWPS for starters, then the subsequent albums that give more than a nod to Smile. Many of us (me included) are exactly the type of people that lap that stuff up so they're catering for us to a certain extent.

I shall hold you to this, AGD!  :)

Please, no more Beatles vs. Beach Boys. It's all a matter of opinion. And I have plenty of music by both bands resting in the bowels of my computer, thank you very much  ;)

I don't even read Al's latest reported comment (anything more on the veracity/source of that?) as saying "not gonna happen" -  only that it's not ready yet.


The item states:

The Beach Boys’ Al Jardine has said that they are not likely to release the recordings intended for their abortive Smile album, contrary to recent Internet reports. He says, “I don’t know if we even have enough parts to put it together or not. May have to record some more.”

That first sentence isn't qualified with a direct quote from Al. Al's quote simply states there might not be enough to put it together and that they might have to record some more.

Not a retraction so much as an "ooooh,  erm, maybe wait a little longer".

Should this have been in another thread, three days ago?   :D

Phil - You have an interesting point of view...a lot of people who see the Boys, do have that summer (even in the dead of winter) party thing going on...

Then, you have a dynamic where you see the same faces at Brian's shows...so, I think there is a definite place where the two (or three, in Al's case) will intersect or overlap.  But that broad brush of set-lists is one that Brian performs as well.  

Roughly 40% or so is not early stuff or a cover of another band... Darlin', California Dreamin', Wouldn't It Be Nice, God Only Knows, Disney Girls (occasionally) Good Vibrations, Kokomo, Cool Head, Warm Heart, Do It Again, Getcha Back, Sloop John B, Back in the USSR, Still Cruisin' -  that is Pet Sounds material and forward...

The whole SMiLE thing impresses me as unfinished business because of time, place and manner of the project, and it will be interesting to see how many fragments (I hope a lot.) will be included.  The whole process, not unlike the tracks on the Pet Sounds Box Set are fascinating to me because you can see the parts - become the whole. That "developmental process" is not for everyone, but something that many of the avid, as you say, fans will want to hear, after all this time.  

And, it will certainly support the position that the "Beach Boys" - in that time window, performed pretty much the same tracks as we hear on SMiLE (as performed by Brian's wonderful band. ) It was elaborate, intense and theatrical.  I often think of Surf's Up as the second half of SMiLE, as it feels like the end-of-the-sentence.  

Brian's fans are quite happy to "rock out" at the end of the sho-w...young, old, everyone...no one ever turns away in disgust, when they hear Fun, Fun, Fun.  People have both, the themed work and the classic hits.  No one is that high-minded or snooty that they don't want to rock out at Brian's behest to the signature music!  

It is not the same party as the Boys' band, but a Brian's shows end as a party none-the-less.   ;)  

Whoops - Thanks Billy. I replaced 'Til I Die' with 'Kokomo' in my mix of Surf's Up a while back....hence the confusion............TOTALLY kidding  ;D

Diehard fan here whether we get smile this year or not.  Pretty sure I am with the majority on this one. :3d

Complete nonsense.

"Al said Smile was coming out this year, but maybe it isn't!  Therefore I'm going to throw away my copy of Friends!"

Hey Phil?  You should really try going outside and just taking a walk.  The oxygen will do you well. 

Wait. What? 

Somebody fill this newbie in, please.

Well said! :rock

I'm happy that someone who isn't me rocks out on the value of showing the power of brian to those who ain't acquainted with denny.

You are correct. I know that we "Smile" fans are commercially insignificant to the surviving Beach Boys members, but it hurts to see them mistreat the people who have been the most loyal. I actually went to a Beach Boys concert at a time when "Friends" was their latest album; at a time when the group's career was at a low point. The only reason that I knew about the "Friends" album was because Capitol Records placed a full color advertisement in a local music newspaper. I had to special order the L.P. at a local store, because none of the local record stores or department stores was going to take the risk of stocking this album by this (seemingly) "has been" group. As for going outside and taking a walk, I think that you're right. After four and a half decades of having music collecting and hifi equipment as my main passive at-home hobby(though I have a couple of active hobbies that I can do outside the home; one involving restaurant food, the other an athletic activity), the music/hifi hobby is becoming too intense. And the attempts to obtain more CD's(though I already have several thousand of them), is becoming increasingly fraught with problems....even when the discs do get released; delivery problems on discs obtained by mail(particularly ones arriving from overseas). I have only a few CD's backordered now, because the stress involved in obtaining them just isn't worth it. I'm hoping that within a few months, the situation with the delivery problems will improve. There is no record store in my area any more.
                              Most of the major "Classic Rock" artists of the 1960's & 1970's have, by now, released their useable outtakes, and it is inevitable that the remaining artists who still hoard outtakes(some of whom were always reluctant to release vault material) are going to be prima donnas about it. Of course, in a few instances, we discovered that the artists in question had few outtakes, highly unfinished, ragged outtakes or outtakes that weren't musically any good.
                              Over the years, I got to do some things that were the ultimate extension of my collecting hobby: I was an information contributor(for 13 years) to a newsletter about classic rock CD's, and twice(in 1992 & 1994) I travelled to London to be an (unpaid) compact disc box set compiler & liner notes writer. In 1992, I took one of the box set projects to Abbey Road Studios where it was mastered by an actual Beatles assistant engineer(now retired). It was thrilling, and the Abbey Road staff were great.
                              As for the declining amount of pleasurable moments in this music collecting/Hifi equipment hobby, my mother says that it is because I took it(this hobby) "To the Nth degree". Perhaps so. But, to my credit, I'm nowhere near as obsessed as the vinyl revival folks or the high-end audiophile equipment people. (I've never not had a turntable since I got my first one in 1966, but I prefer CD's, and I've collected CD's since 1984)
                              Really, for me, there isn't much at stake in this whole "Smile" business: only whether I get to hear full-fidelity versions of three tracks that I presently have with only fair to midding cassette quality. I'm not really expecting that there is or could be much more in the vaults beyond the actual songs/takes that were intended for the "Smile" album. Previous Beach Boys album sessions did produce an occasional unreleased song or version, but the group was under a harsh 3 album per year contract. There wasn't time to record much more.

Sure us diehard fans are a minority. But if you'd take 10 random Smiley Smilers and 500 random casual Beach Boys fans, there's a pretty good chance that the band made more money off the first group.

Most casual fans will get a greatest hits CD, maybe Pet Sounds, and they'll go to a Mike & Bruce show if it's in the neighborhood. So that's, let's say, about two CDs and one concert each. And then there's, well, "us". Raise your hand if you bought more than a hundred BB/BW CDs and records and saw at least five BB/BW shows in your life...

I think you may be right shelter. I for one have bought 45's, all the LP's through the 85 album. All CDs in US release two fold. I also have a decent amount of foreign releases. All the the solo stuff on LP & CD. Since 1969, I've been to approx. 40 Beach Boys concerts, plus Carl once, and Brian's shows 5 times. I've been a pretty loyal fan through the years in mind and wallet.

Excellent point -  I've spent tens of thousands following the band, buying their LPs, 45s, CDs, DVDs, VHSs and more.  I've even got both versions of AGD's book.

But how many times will we each buy a BBs' SMiLE set?

I only bought eight or nine copies of BWPS, and only went to about 14 SMiLE concerts.  Bought two programnmes but didn't bother to get a T-shirt. Sometimes I feel such a cheapskate I drop a few quid in an envelope and post it to Brian with a wee apology that I didn't spend more at the time.

I suspect we are a very significant minority.

and you call yourself a fan... :quote

My first boot was a Smile LP, as well as buying the Box Set pretty much just for those tracks. I'll buy this new release later this year. I think I've bought every US CD release in which I must now have the same tracks many times over. If nothing else, we help keep the band, the legend and the myth alive. We are more valuable to them than they really know.

he should stop feeling so entitled.

And don't kick any puppies while you're out there.

My first CD was a SMiLE boot , way back in the day. And I even had to buy a rather expensive deck several months later, so I could listen to it.

We keeps da industry afloat we does!

I won't. Promise.