The Smiley Smile Message Board

While looking for future Christmas presents for myself  ;D, I found what looks like everything off the Wikipedia pages about the Beach Boys, it's 822 pages long! Runs around 35$, I know I want it because I was thinking about printing out all the pages from wikipedia for a BB reference guide, looks like I don't have to. Looking through the sample pages, looks like everything off the wikipedia pages, wonder if solo stuff is included.

http://www.amazon.com/Beach-Boys-Complete-History/dp/1453603565/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I204EKJ2T4JAFJ&colid=2XLTNTQKX7ZGS

Why pay for something you can get for free?

i honestly don't wanna take the time to print out all those pages. I still have a crappy printer...I'd like it as a good reference guide.

If you're going to be wasteful and print out easily-accessible online information about The Beach Boys for no good reason, I would think you should print out the contents of Bellagio 10452 instead of Wikipedia's pages on the group. At least with the former you know it's as accurate as possible!

Minus the spelling errors, which are legion. :)

Except for the bits I made up of course... which according to someone with the initials CK is all of it.  ;D

IIRC, a lot of the information on that page is sourced to Wouldn't It Be Nice: My Own Story, so it might not be reliable.

Already have.  ;)

I have a huge library of things printed out over the years.

Over the years, I've had a lot of printer freedom at the university library, well, I'm graduated now, so I can't really use that good printer, otherwise I would.

...why are you so ridiculously wasteful?

I'm wasteful to print out paper that I paid for in tuition?
It's not like I don't read it.
Read it once, then file it away with others.
As a I file it away, I read past pages that I've printed.
I use it as reference and reading material.
I love reading this stuff.
I've got things printed from the early 2000s, it's refreshing and reminds me of the things I've learned over the years in the Beach Boy world.

I do this also because I know I won't always have internet access.
Sure I do where I live now, but where I'm expecting to move, I won't have internet access.

Don't worry, I print out stuff on small print and on each side of the paper.
and you could say I 'reuse' the paper each time I read it.

Citizen Kane?

Ahhh...  You mean we're losing you? 
How much more time do we have?

Where are you moving to - the moon?  ;D
I thought you could get internet access pretty much anywhere these days.

well, when you're lame and moving out of your parents house and know you won't have the money to pay for internet let alone not having a computer....that's when I won't have access

waiting to hear about a job.
when i get all these files out sometime, i'll post what i've printed out.
It's stuff I find important and a lot of stuff I can't find in BB/BW books.
Over the years, a lot of good articles have been written all over the net, it's impossible for me to bookmark each one them, going through a different computer at times.

Library.  ;D

Gosh, I can't win here.  :-D

Are you guys telling me you've never printed off stuff to read when you either can't read it online or it's way to long to read on a computer screen or want to include an edit from some type or article or blog to stick in any of the BB/BW books?

Back in the day when it was known as Cabinessence.com (surfermoon.com), they had a lot of great writings/articles. You should check them out if you need a good read. Unfortunately, the writings section hasn't been updated since they uploaded a selection of the book: Catch a Wave. I don't know why they stopped writing there, darn shame.

These books can be a mixed bag.  They are authored or edited, by people who have a certain point of view. 

Wikipedia is the same unless it is "corrected" and I understand some of it has been, from different accounts.  You do realize that copiers have "hard drives" and stores what you copy in "memory," (which is pretty outrageous)and people who copy stuff that is not pertinent can get into trouble.   It might be best not to copy in school or work. 

You have control of your own printer.

If that's teh case, I save the text file in my HD.

Wow...Carol has actually accused you of making this stuff up?  I guess she can live in whatever fantasy world she wants.

I think it's well known that CK has taken exception with whoever disagrees with her-even there is evidence to support their case. Why she's like that, I have no idea-I wonder if she was always that way, or if it's just old age.

She's an exceptionally talented musician, but ever since I heard her claim that she played James Jamerson's part on the Four Top's "Bernadette", I've taken everything she says with several large grains of salt.

You never will win here-you're not in Kansas anymore-you're in the jolly old land of OZ. :wall

Seeing as CK posted the following on her own website after our little spat on the Bloo - where she also accused me, and every other BB researcher except Russ Wapensky, of stealing AFM sheets - I have no compunction about reposting it here, some ten years later (comments in italics are mine):

“This purported self-appointed "expert" is actually a real buddy-friend of someone (used car dealer-writer) that Brian Wilson recently sued for stealing/purloining masters (Brad Elliott, and no, never 'a real buddy-friend')... this current phony posting on one board or more is posing as an "expert" on the Beach Boys' stuff who lives in England and is a bully to a lot of fans, setting himself up as some sort of "god" to history.... another one of those. Haha, never ceases to amaze me about these types of guys living on their lies and subterfuge of posing as a guru of information that is totally false but is obsessed to pretend to be a vip... this is a bachelor baby-boomer who was in knee-pants when we were recording - lives with his elderly mother who takes care of him etc (I think that anyone who stoops to low blows like that is more deserving of our pity than our censure)... I think some are getting wise to this poor guy tho', how badly he needs help.....we've got some like that over here in the USA too, the Internet helps them set up with their pure lies so they can "enchant" the masses for awhile (true - I completely invented this so-called band, The Beach Boys: actually, they don't exist)...and it's not good for people like Brian to have these types mislead people either.... They are really self-delusional guys who eventually get laughed at -- hard to believe that people actually do fall for their lies tho' for awhile, but that's because not much is known about our studio work...... more books are on the way to the printer soon (Wapensky's book was cancelled in 2003 - very sad about that). And there's a lot of films in the can wending their way on the air.... Yes, he just can't stand to be "corrected" -- yet (and most are finding this out too) he makes outlandish claims which are all lies all the time ("makes outlandish claims which are all lies all the time" - two words, Carol: James Jamerson) .... just a really bad guy imo. And yes he does have a website....this kind of person is harming the fan-club of Brian Wilson's...is the buddy of a person who Brian sued, and little by little he's being found out but does tend to bully whomever on BW and BB sites. Believe me, join the crowd of people who he attacks, I guess the truth is very threatening to him...like another fellow I know (hmmm.....probably more of them out there on the internet too). So easy to fool people on the internet which takes time to ferret out if it's lies or truth...I think he's really on his way out now tho'. Sad case (merda, I've been on my way out for ten years... guess I need to speed up some)"

...

I know how Wikipedia works.
Even being on the site itself, I can tell if the info is fact or opinion or false...I think a lot of us can tell on the BB sections.

I don't know if your just handing out advice but throughout college I got the lecture of not using wikipedia every semester.

...

Wikipedia was not around when I was in college; without computers. We went to the library but we had something called "Cliff Notes" and "Monarch Outlines" (some here will know what those are  :lol ) - but I still take classes.    

The only advice was that if people use a copy machine, at work or at school, and it is not school or work-related, the copy machines, even the public ones have hard-drives so they can keep a copy of whatever you are copying including sensitive information, like personal documents, which is pretty scary.  It makes a clunky home printer/scanner look better and better, even if they are slower and less efficient.  

Wiki has disclaimers looking for updated material so it is a site which is in a state of flux all the time.  It may be a good place to "start" but maybe should not be the "last word" in your research.  

Ok, but its one up from you-nah, I'm not gonna start with the name calling-nobody can top you at that. :p

Well play, I understand what you're saying.
Yes, I know what Cliff Notes are.  ;D
I'm glad I graduated and used up all my paper at the library.

Congratulations, Graduate!  ;)

And another mis-interpetation.

After some PM's back and forth. It's clear for me that oldsurferdude's first response was merely a sarcastic response to the CK quote, not intended to personally hurt AGD.
It was interpreted that way though, and AGD’s reaction wasn’t mild either.

Although I very well understand the personal emotions behind all this, may I (as always) suggest to ask first to make sure what the other meant to say?
No need to give the negative vibes a chance to ruin an otherwise interesting discussion.

O, and I also wouldn’t mind to scrap some words in those last few posts. We do have rules on name-calling.

1 - scrap away, no problem here

2 - I think we're all well aware of what the intention was as regard OSD's response. He doesn't like me, which I can understand (::)), or Mike Love, or, quite possibly The Beach Boys at all, which is rather odd.

That would indeed be odd...why be here if you're not a BB fan?

Excellent question-sounds like the genesis of a possible thread. ;)

Thanks. though I did graduate spring of 09, I've felt like I can't do anything with that degree because I didn't have my license to teach until a month ago. NOW I feel like I've achieved something and moving forward in life.

Back to Topic at hand:
I'll still be ordering the book.
I enjoy how the articles on the site for the albums discuss or at least list the albums that were to be released during that particular era, example: Adult Child, New album, etc.

It has a lot of flaws but in reading the book it is kind of nice to have certain things in one place. I really like reading books offline but hey I'm 34.

Just checked the Wiki page for "Surfin'", and of course it was wrong (as was the singles discog) as regards the release sequence.

So I fixed it.  ;D

Ah, yes -  it's not widely known outside of West Yorkshire that Surfin' was recorded in a Halifax engineering shop. Murry Wilson had travelled with Audrey to a glass eye convention in Mexico, leaving the guys $300 dollars to buy Brian birthday cake for the weekend. Instead, they spent some of the dough on RyanAir flights to Leeds & Bradford airport and from there hopped on the Number 45 bus to Halifax, pausing only to spend some more of the cash renting instruments on Halifax's Piece Hall flea market. After recording Surfin' (three versions -  snare & vocals version, acoustic guitar & vocals version, and brass band & vocals version), they still had money left for fish & chips, a bottle of dandelion and burdock each and the bus fare back to the airport.

Coming soon to a Wiki page near you!

I'm still in Kansas and only 7 miles north of "Oz".

I can only hope everything will be edited by AGD by the time the print of the book is delivered to me.  ;D

If only there was a perfect Beach Boys literature with no mistakes....except mr. Doe's book.  :)

Wait, you mean all of them perfect in every way except AGD's?
Why does he get a pass?

I don't think there's any mistakes in his book...as opposed to other books

Oooh ....   a witch-hunt! 

It says that Alan sang lead on How She Boogalooed It, an unforgivable error!  ;D

Off topic but why is it the Complete Guide always referred to as AGD's book when it's credited to Andrew and John Tobler? Just curious, not trying to stir anything up!

Andrew did all of the work, whle John supplied the publishing deal.   :lol

When it comes down to it, Who is John Tobler?

If I mention that name every time I mention the book, everyone's gonna ask who it is...
...and you know how AGD hates answering the same question over and over.   ;)

JT was one of the foremost, and best (the two terms are not invariably synonymous), rock journalists of the sixties and seventies in the UK. With Pete Frame he co-founded the legendary Zig Zag. I couldn't have had a better mentor (in the truest sense of the word) and collaborator. He's also a supremely nice guy. Even got a Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tobler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tobler)

Finished the book. It mentions the board here a few times and I noticed that some of the tweeking I did to various entries are included. It's not nearly as good a source as say Andrew's site but it does get a lot of info together. 7/10

What kind of pictures are in the book?
just pics of the album covers?
Does it mention alternative albums like New album in the Love You entry and Add Some Music in the Sunflower section?

“This purported self-appointed "expert" is actually a real buddy-friend of someone (used car dealer-writer) that Brian Wilson recently sued for stealing/purloining masters (Brad Elliott, and no, never 'a real buddy-friend')... this current phony posting on one board or more is posing as an "expert" on the Beach Boys' stuff who lives in England and is a bully to a lot of fans, setting himself up as some sort of "god" to history.... another one of those. Haha, never ceases to amaze me about these types of guys living on their lies and subterfuge of posing as a guru of information that is totally false but is obsessed to pretend to be a vip... this is a bachelor baby-boomer who was in knee-pants when we were recording - lives with his elderly mother who takes care of him etc (I think that anyone who stoops to low blows like that is more deserving of our pity than our censure)... I think some are getting wise to this poor guy tho', how badly he needs help.....we've got some like that over here in the USA too, the Internet helps them set up with their pure lies so they can "enchant" the masses for awhile (true - I completely invented this so-called band, The Beach Boys: actually, they don't exist)...and it's not good for people like Brian to have these types mislead people either.... They are really self-delusional guys who eventually get laughed at -- hard to believe that people actually do fall for their lies tho' for awhile, but that's because not much is known about our studio work...... more books are on the way to the printer soon (Wapensky's book was cancelled in 2003 - very sad about that). And there's a lot of films in the can wending their way on the air.... Yes, he just can't stand to be "corrected" -- yet (and most are finding this out too) he makes outlandish claims which are all lies all the time ("makes outlandish claims which are all lies all the time" - two words, Carol: James Jamerson) .... just a really bad guy imo. And yes he does have a website....this kind of person is harming the fan-club of Brian Wilson's...is the buddy of a person who Brian sued, and little by little he's being found out but does tend to bully whomever on BW and BB sites. Believe me, join the crowd of people who he attacks, I guess the truth is very threatening to him...like another fellow I know (hmmm.....probably more of them out there on the internet too). So easy to fool people on the internet which takes time to ferret out if it's lies or truth...I think he's really on his way out now tho'. Sad case (merda, I've been on my way out for ten years... guess I need to speed up some)"

I've lost all respect for Carol Kaye after this.

AGD, if you don't mind my asking, what on earth did you do to PO Carol so much?

This - back when the Bloo really was blue, she was a regular visitor, and generally an all-round OK poster. Then, someone asked her which instrument Ray Pohlman played on a specific Pet Sounds track, and she said that he wasn't on that session. Which surprised a few people, yours truly included, as not only does the AFM sheet and the box set booklet credit him, but on the relevant session extract you can clearly hear Brian calling him Ray. So, a few of us quite politely questioned what she said, and she just went off on one, the basic gist being "I was there, you weren't, how dare you question me". Maybe I should have left it at that... but that's not me, so I pointed out the facts as stated above. Which was when she accused me of stealing AFM sheets, and said she'd get her friend Russ Wapensky to go through his research and he'd prove I was wrong. I pointed out that there was no need for him to do that as he'd merely be quoting from the same AFM sheet that I was, which would actually prove me right, and suggested, again politely, that she listen to the session extract and hear Brian call Ray by name. And that was when she flounced off and proceeded to make the sort of comments you've seen on her website forum - from which I was barred, of course, as was anyone who spoke up for me. She also sent me several very insulting and unpleasant emails, even after I'd asked her to stop, so I had to put a block on her.

I have nothing but respect for her musical ability and achievements, but as a person I have no time for her, because (aside from what she's said about me) I have no time for anyone who lays claim to the work of another as theirs. This isn't widely known, but in 2000 she brought a case in Chicago against people who stated in print and on the 'net that she had nothing to do with the MoTown tracks she claimed to play bass on (notably Alan Slutsky). The judge threw her case out in pre-trial, telling her that on the basis of the evidence she'd provided, she didn't have a leg to stand on.

As an aside, I feel there must have also been some kind of falling out with Brian's camp as well, as if you try to make a post on the Bloo using her name, it won't be accepted.

This is what I was going to say. Her musical talents are(were?) incredible. Unfortunately, she seems to have fallen prey to dementia.
If she could have just shut her yap, her legacy would be a good one.
Now, I think it will always be there with an asterisk.   

Yes it does metion the unreleased LP's. It also does have a few photos but mostly record covers.

Thanks AGD but don't you know a woman is always right even when she's wrong!  :lol

ah yes...zig zag magazine. i had a cd of the magazine's 5th anniversary concert with mike nesmith as one of the performers. very good. now that i think about it i am going to zip over to videoranch and see if nez is selling it again. i need to replace my copy.

Think you can do much better than that...

The Amazing Zig Zag Concert (http://www.starryeyedandlaughing.com/zigzag.htm)

thanks andrew...  :)

Also, does it go through solo stuff?

From time to time I've wanted to ask this but I was afraid to raise a delicate subject. Now that he's mentioned, I ask: Whatever happened to Brad Elliot?

Last time I remember him being online (like eight years ago, on the Net Sounds board), he was calling for donations to help fund his researching for a new book. Then, the book never happened, and he cited health issues to explain his absence (and the money was never returned, from the complaints I've read). What's been going on with him on the last few years?

This is one for AGD to tell..........  ;)

Basically, been evading process servers: this isn't me being my usual charming self, but from one of the folk he owes many thousands of dollars from the First Wave episode.

...and for other things too.