The Smiley Smile Message Board

I apologize if this has been covered before (repeatedly) but I couldn't come up with much in a search so I figured I would ask. In comparing my 1988 CD and vinyl of the Brian Wilson album with the 2001 remaster with bonus tracks, there is an obvious difference in the two mixes of "Melt Away". The end vocal round on the 1988 versions contain a set of high "ahh"s that aren't on the 2001 release. It doesn't sound like Brian to me. Perhaps it's Andy Paley?
Anyway, was there a reason the compilers of the 2001 CD chose to use a mix that was different from the original release. Did it have anything to do with Landy? Personally I prefer the "ahh"s mix because they sound real pretty on top of Brian's vocals. 

The missing 'ahhs' were simply a mistake by the people producing the set - they used an earlier mix on the reissue.

Wasn't there talk at the time of the error being corrected on a subsequent repressing? Far as I know that never happened...  MArk L would know what the score currently is there, I guess...


Maybe it'll be included in the BBs Surfin' Solo boxset (which collects 4 ML albums, 11 BW albums, 1 AJ album, 2 CW albums, 3 DW albums and 10 CDs of outtakes) that's coming out at the same time as the SMiLE Sessions box (15 CDs) and the 72-74 Tour box (150 CDs).  If you buy all 3 boxes together from Amazon, you get a bonus 4CD box of Kokomo re-recordings in Italian, Nepalese, Urdu, Swahilli, Spanish etc etc etc.

Rhino replaced my copy of BW '88 with the corrected one almost immediately after the release. Not only was the coda to "Melt Away" affected, but "Love & Mercy" and "There's So Many" featured different mixes as well.

I think "Let It Shine" was different too, I remember there being a difference in the drums.

Makes me sad I didn't buy the one with the different mixes; When you say "replaced" did you have to send one back to get the other? 

seconded -  very curious!

I bought the Rhino reissue in 2000 when it came out, and got the alternate mixes.  Years later, I bought a second copy (from Amazon) and got...the alternate mixes.  Apparently there's plenty left in stock.

Yes, I did have to mail in the "wrong" disc to get the correct one sent to me. I hesitated briefly, but the earlier mixes were definitely inferior as far as I was concerned and the lack of the high vocal at the end of MELT AWAY was a dealbreaker (it's perhaps my favorite moment on the album).

Bummer. I wonder if they destroyed all the returns, or kept them to sell as collectors items...

Those of us who bought the CD in 1988 were, of course, spared any such dilemma.  ;D

Mark will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I recall reading that when the 2000 reissue was compiled, it was discovered that there wasn't, in fact, one single master for the album, so the tracks had to be pulled from the vault individually.

So the 88 CD has the alternate versions of songs? Don't remember hearing them that way.

The 88 CD has the correct mixes.

I wasn't aware of any "corrected" 2001 CD. Are we certain this exists? Even the version of the album on iTunes has he alternate mixes.

I remember back when the reissue came out being really disappointed about the wrong mixes being used, and I read somewhere (I think it was on one of those cards they use in record stores for the artists name) that you could send in the srewed-up version for the right one, but since I have a couple copies of the original I just figured "hey, alt. mixes...cool." I think I remember someone saying that if you sent in your re-master you got a CDR with the correct versions, but who knows...?

Um, Roger Ryan just said above that Rhino replaced the "incorrect mixes" disc he'd bought with one that had the correct mixes.  Roger, was that a standard CD or a CDR?

There's no freakin' way I would have accepted a CD-R replacement! It was a properly-pressed disc with artwork. I didn't have a CD burner at the time or I would have burned a CD-R of the incorrect mixes before mailing the first disc. Like I said, I found the wrong mixes pretty inferior (or, at least, not different enough to be interesting) so I don't lose sleep over it.

Oh, and to clarify, the disc that Rhino sent back contained the correct mixes. Also it was the newly remastered version with the bonus tracks - obviously this was the main reason I repurchased the album since the '88 issue was in need of remastering.

As far as I am aware, the fixed and correct mixes are not (and have never been) available in the stores.  If you buy the 88 reissue anywhere I believe you still get the version with a few incorrect mixes so that version isn't rare at all.  I have several copies of the re-issue and and they all have the Melt Away without the high part at the end.  I'm not blaming anyone for that either, I just think the limited audience for this reissue made it not worth sending out new corrected stock to the stores.  I'm sure many of the people who purchased the reissue didn't notice the differences (except us geeks here).

I would love to hear if anyone has purchased a corrected version in a store, but I think the corrected version was limited to the few who sent in their incorrect version

Hmm; In that case, I wonder if Rhino is sitting on a stack of corrected CDs, just waiting to be purchased by rich, completist, collectors.
Or if one were to purchase the reissue in the store now, would they replace it with a corrected version if you mailed it back? 

Let's alter the course of this discussion's stream: Is "Melt Away" Brian's best outro since "Til I Die"?

I say yes.

Let's go back to your childhood

Yeah, lets alter the stream. In Holland it has been discovered that wireless WiFi signals significantly decrease the health of trees. Published today. I thought of 'A Day In The Life Of A Tree', how eminently prescient.

And herrings communicate by farting.

The above statements are true, by the way.

Same here. Like Roger, I mailed back my original without bothering to make a copy and Rhino instantly sent me a replacement CD. I love this album, but not enough to want the "wrong" mixes.

So the "wrong mixes" are from the original issue of the album? Would having this version of the cd be worth anything?

The "wrong" mixes are from the original Rhino 2000 remaster of Brian Wilson. The 1988 CD issue uses the "correct" mixes, as does the reissue Rhino offered in 2000 (and still?) for anyone who mailed in their "wrong" copy for an exchange.

Given how common the "wrong" mixes version of the 2000 remaster is, I doubt it's worth any more than a "corrected" copy of the same disc.

Of course, those of us who bought the album when it was originally issued have no such problems.  ;D

I remember sending my "incorrect" remaster back to Rhino and getting the corrected replacement in the mail. I assumed the corrected version would also be put in stores, but apparently it wasn't. I did have a CD burner at the time, so I did back up the "incorrect" mixes. But I've never re-listened to them.

The missing vocals at the end of "Melt Away" bothered me, so when I read about the replacement program in ICE magazine, I jumped on it ... What a gorgeous coda.

A question:

Vega-table Man, where are you ?   ;D

[Sorry, but currently reading a Syd biography, and it was just too good a chance to pass up]

:lol


Is it the new one that just came out? Anything we don't already know in it?

Pretty new-ish - A Very Irregular Head by Rod Chapman, published last year. Interesting: some great original research and myth debunking, and lots of input from Libby Gausden & Syd's sister Rosemary, but the main problem I can see is that the author insists that Syd's increasingly bizarre actions in his latter days in the Floyd were because he was bored with doing the normal stuff and started expanding his horizons, and therefore concious decisions, and not because he was, frankly, imploding and pretty much out of it at the time. I mean, when his bandmates all agree that he was tap-dancing on the rings of Saturn after the summer of 1967, I think it's a pretty persuasive argument.

Except that ours is not re-mastered, as Roger points out. Fairly significant.

Bernie Grundman mastered the original. He's certainly one of the top mastering engineers in the music world, whom also happens to run one of the top mastering facilities.

Like I said, not very significant. :-D

However, the improvement in digital sampling rates between 1988 and 2000 is significant. The Rhino reissue sounds warmer and has more clarity than the first version on CD, plus it has all those cool bonus tracks. If you're talking about the original vinyl album, then there is less of a difference.

As I was saying, quite significant. ;D

Just one more thing -- other alternate mixes notwithstanding, the dropping of the "ahhhhs" on "Melt Away" is so egregious -- how could that have been missed?  I noticed immediately and like others was extremely disappointed as that was what put this wonderful track over the top for me.

Who was getting paid to drop that big of a ball?

Recall it being explained at the time that there wasn't a single, banded master for the whole album, so the songs had to be pulled individually from the racks, and in a couple of instances, the wrong one was used. It happens, even with complete album masters, as per the Sony reissues of 1991.

 ;D

I need to pick up that Syd book actually ... Been meaning to for a while.

Did the producers of the reissue not have a copy of the original album on CD or vinyl to compare to the tapes they had?

An excellent question, and one much asked back then.

Sorry for posting in here after such a long time but I stumbled upon the thread and wondered if the version on spotify is the correct version or not? I'm sure it's the same as the one I bought on cd about ten years ago.

Omg, just listened to my 88 cd (I have both, so I've never really listened to the old one) THE CODA IS AMAZING.

Now you're just teasing! The one i've been listening to is pretty much my favourite tag in a Brian song, so to think there's a different version that's even better is making me too excited!

It's worth it, the "aahhhh" is just so great, sounds a bit like adding the "2nd verse vocals" to CIFOTM

My claim to fame is that, upon release of the reissue, I mentioned the wrong mixes on the PSML.  Somebody forwarded my comments to Mark, and he insisted that they were the right mixes, even saying that the 3 loud synth notes before the L&M coda were loud because of the higher bitrate.  Yeah, I don't think bitrates add like 6 dB; just sayin'...
 :police:

Also, the "ahhhhh"s in Melt Away are on the IJWMFTT version, If you really want to hear it but have the reissue

I can't believe there was that much ineptitude in preparing a  remastered re-release. I was disgusted with the way the disc sounded, particularly the missing vocals in "Mely Away". I'd like to have a "corrected" copy myself!

Those 3 synth notes on Love and Mercy annoy the hell out of me everytime I play it. They shouldn't but they do. I also end up singing the missing vocals on Melt Away when I play the remastered version. 2 of the 3 greatest songs on that album screwed up, very poor! Maybe I should just stick to playing the original issue, the first BW/BB's album I ever bought incidently.

Am I a bad person if I like the reissue mixes as that's the first way I heard that record and I never really miss the coda? And what synth notes? The little run up the scale to the final chorus? Is that not supposed to be there?




I just remembered, I actually have an old pre-reissue CD of this. Maybe should stick it on the computer  :lol

If it's the same three notes i'm thinking about it's after the lovely harmony bit in the middle leading back into the chorus. I've always hated it, those little notes ruin the whole section that comes before.

i went to half price books today and was perusing their cd's when i saw this album.  I decided to get it since i didn't have it yet, it looked like an original issue, and i definitely have the "ahhhh ahhhhsss" at the end of melt away on mine :D anyway, on first listen, this album sucks! but melt away is gooood

Stay tuned for the end of the album.  You'll be all like "OH MY GOD"

i think once the flush of the overwhelming production goes away i'll probably start enjoying it.

Yeah, you'll get past that.  You did listen to Rio Grande, though, right?  You didnt' enjoy it?

I didn't like Rio Grande the first time I heard it. I like it now, but still.

Rio Grande just hit me after about the 4th time of listening to it. I think it was that beautiful "whoa whoa yeah" part that got to me on a higher level like all the best Brian songs.

BW 88 may be the least approachable of all of Brian's albums. For whatever reason -- the dense (and inconsistent) production, the stiff instrumentation, the shouty vocals, the wide variety of songs -- it can be a tough nut to crack. It was one of the reasons Imagination seemed like such a revelation back in 98 -- it was a pleasant, refreshing, less difficult listen.

The last 3 songs on this album + Melt Away, There's So Many, and Maybe L&M Make this Brian's best solo album IMO

I have 3 copies, Vinyl, the old CD (Real One) and "Remastered" one.

I've loved that album since it came out. Was partly responsible for me becoming a fan.

the second half of Rio Grande is def better than the first. *listening to the album with nice headphones now*

usual boring apologies for being slightly off topic/asking something that's been covered before

but

found this album a difficult nut to crack until I read the biography of Brian by Peter Ames Carlin and it suddenly clicked for me, but one question remains for me: how come Brian's (if it is his) falsetto is able to reach close to its perfect former glory on the backing vox of 'Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long' but weirdly not on the lead vocals or anything he did 15 odd years before or since?

the chorus to night time is crazy annoying.  but other songs are getting better. melt away is goooood

I think you're overstating things a bit. He was sounding excellent on "Getcha Back" in '85, which was quite high. And the falsetto was still pretty healthy on Imagination. Listen to "She Says that She Needs Me" and "Cry." He got his band the next year, so he's turned to Foskett since then.

Overall, I think Brian is kind of embarrassed of his falsetto and generally prefers not to sing with it, unless he has a co-producer who's really pushing for it. Also, I think it's just physically harder for him to do now.

He has done some other falsetto here and there more recently...he does all the vocals for the Rhapsody In Blue intro and outro on the Gershwin album, so listen for some there.  Doesn't really count, but on the demo for Forever My Surfer Girl (and possibly other TLOS demos) he does some falsetto work.  Not a lot though, admittedly.

Aha, yep he sounds great on Getcha Back - didn't realize because i've only listened to the 80s BB albums once (and brian's solo album is pet sounds compared to those!). I suppose i am overstating the case, it was just shocking for me to hear his falsetto as pure and pristine as ever because i thought true Brian falsetto disappeared from 15BO onwards.

brian can kinda hit those falsetto notes, but that doesn't mean he sounds great to me.

Not that anybody here would know :)  but he does sound great in falsetto on "Wipe Out" with the Beach Boys too.  I believe that's around the same time as Getcha Back...

Night Time chorus is catchy as hell! Album highlight for me!
'Melt Away' is okay, but I have never heard this apparent "proper" mix...

He does some falsetto in The First Noel, too, at the end.

Um, there's still an ongoing debate as to how much of that is Brian and how much Jeff.

Not so much a matter of "how much", though, right? Brian said Terry Melcher coached that vocal out of him, where as Jeff says that he did it. I doubt the final is a mixture of the two or anything, unless one did most of the song and the other did the key change. Both parts sound like the same guy, though.

Isolating the f*** out of the CD mix, sounds more like Brian - it sounds like the closest he ever got to his 60s prime, but you can definitely hear a bit of his late 70s falsetto in there, too. That "whine" he had in the 70s (that was different from his 60s whine) very much sounds to be in there. Jeff never really sounded much like any era of Brian to me (that's not a slight on him this time - just two different sounding voices), where as this vocal has always carried a kind of eerie feel to it because, while certainly not exact, reminds me so much of Brian's 60s voice.

But then that's an amateur isolation, I don't have the multitracks and could obviously be way off. Shame we'll probably never know for sure. Anyone else who knows a bit more about this want to give it a shot and post the results?

The vocal would sound better if it were Jeff, in my opinion. Sorry, Jeff haters!

not sure why, but i find the first half of Rio Grande creepy.  

Now you have to decide, is creepy always a bad thing?  Or is it impressive that someone can make music that invokes different emotions.


The falsetto note he hits on "First Noel" is breathtaking, if you're in the right mood :)  He's singing the same "Noel, Noel... Noel; Noel!" the whole song, over and over again in the chorus as the song is written... and then towards the end, he has the band come in strong with a good "AHHHHHHHHHHHH" and he does "Noel; Noel.... Noel;... NooooeeeeLLLLLLLLLLL!" and swooshes up into that old-school, early Brian Wilson falsetto, for all of one note. 

If it's the right time of night, and the right time of year, you might cry a little bit. 

LOve the 88 album. Yeah, I wish the production hadn't been that way, but there are more stronger songs overall on here than on Imagination

Really? I thought it was confirmed a long time ago that it was Brian.  Sure sounds like him!

listening to Rio Grande again, the first half is still meh, but starting at 3:56 it was suddenly SO much like animal collective.  I was playing it for my girlfriend and she said "wait what?  This is still brian wilson?"

good stuff.