The Smiley Smile Message Board

Initial reaction: excellent piece of work, 100% new interviews (all excellent), a handful of rare/unseen (by me) photos. OK, there's a few avoidable errors/perpetuations of myths but they're on a level that probably only someone as picky as me would catch, or indeed want to catch. No previously unseen footage, I think although I'll have to double check on a couple of clips, and at three hours, there's time to do it right, and they did. Recommended without reservation.

One caveat, however: if you're coming into this expecting whole songs and plenty of them, be warned. This is semi-academic (that's not a criticism - entirely the reverse) and, I'd say, possibly a bit heavy for the casual, Endless Summer, Sounds Of Summer fan.

Sounds perfect for this crew.

Cool! I just ordered it, so we'll see...

i'd love to hear what post Good Vibrations songs are included/discussed

I was waiting for a review. Got mine yesterday, all the way from the UK! 
Now, should I keep it sealed as a collectible, or open it to enjoy....

Enjoy.

Any uncommon songs/versions we've not heard before Andrew? Mine's on its way from Play.com.

Buy two, dilemma solved!

Just snapped up my copy! Anyone in the UK, they're going for under a tenner from one seller on eBay.

Well... not BB/BW, but that's the first time I've every heard any of "Fannie Mae".

Mike Love sings Fannie Mae?

Yeah. And Al does a wonderful Freddy Mac. He da man, seen?

This is a very good documentary. I must make special mention of the Bruce interview segments. He's very insightful when he hasn't Mike breathing down his neck. My only gripe is the feature makes short work of the 'post Smile' 60's stuff, but as that was somewhat to be expected, it's a small gripe.

You should get the soundtrack to "American graffiti". Buster Brown's original is on there. Or just click here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usii0MVmBPY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usii0MVmBPY)

no?

Hey guys - I'm actually in that movie, which probably surprises me more than anyone, but whatever. I really enjoyed the day I spent with the guys who were writing/directing/shooting the piece; they were very into Brian and the story, and were smart and funny and all that. I got my DVD weeks/months ago and put off looking at it b/c I was just horrified to think of how I'd look and etc., but then I was flying from NYC to the west coast last week and had a chance to watch most of it and was thrilled to see how well-written it was, and how deeply they saw into the whole story, and created such a cool narrative for themselves.

Not so sure about Bruce's bits tho. He had a few neat things to say, but I couldn't imagine why he felt obligated to diss 'Friends' so much. I think that's a lovely album -- he basically dismissed 'Busy Doin' Nothin,' for god's sake, to say nothing of 'wake the world' and 'be still' and etc. And I'm like, really? Those are lovely little gems, whereas BJ's contributions to the songbook do very little for me. Okay, 'Disney Girls,' and every so often I'll get a charge out of 'Tears in the Morning' and/or 'Deirdre.' But his staunch m.o.r. perspective, and his stubborn insistence on giving Mike as much credit for 'GV' as he does Brian, gives me the willies.

Okay, whatever. But do check out the video. Fast forward thru my meanderings and you'll have yousrelf a really cool movie.

Can we get it here in oz??

Thanks for the review, I just ordered it. Can't wait till it''s its on my screen

I thought your parts were very entertaining too Peter! The eyeopening part of Bruce's stuff for me was how much he seems to love the Smiley Smile album. I saw his views on Friends more as "it was the wrong album to put out at that time" than "it was a bad album per se".

Friends may have been out of place in 1968 but the actual music deserves better than still being dismissed for that reason, which seems ridiculously unimportant considering it's been 42 years since that album first came out. Why not let the music speak for itself after all these years? :)

1968 was the wrong time to put out anything by the Beach Boys.....

Hmm, have to disagree with you there... 
There's never been a bad time for them to release something they believe in.

Funny, the only album I have autographed by Bruce is FRIENDS.  It was soon after the album came out, after a concert, at a restaurant that I heard he would be going to.  And he seemed very happy to sign it.  In fact, he actually remembers the occasion because I described the lady he was with exactly to him. That day, not long ago, we both shared a distant memory with fondness for different reasons. 42 years ago?

I have much affection for the Friends album and as I wasn't even born when it was released it's historical context means nothing to me. However I would label the songs more as "nice" then "great". It's hard to forget they come from the mind of the man who less than two years earlier had conceived "Good Vibrations" and "Surfs Up".

I agree with everything in this post, but despite most songs being just "nice", I think that as an album it is great because it's more than just a collection of individual songs. It has a wonderful mood, it's pretty consistent, it flows very nicely and it has just one bad song - but since it's the last one it doesn't interrupt anything. The songs are 7s and 8s, but as a whole I think it's a 9.

You have great taste in music for someone so young...but you are approaching their music from a different vantage point.

If you watch and can make out what Carl and the guys are saying on the Paris - Gaumont Palace Youtube, which I think was a mini documentary you can see the feelings, expressed very candidly by the guys about the whole "being in the box" musically and the desire to "break out" from the stereotype they were saddled with at the time.  It is in two parts and you will see clips of live concert, including one of my favorites, "Country Air" from Wild Honey and interviews which look like they were held in a hotel room with two twin beds pushed together.

My initial impression was that "Friends" (with a very sweet single by that name) was sort of what what called "experimental music" at the time, and the Boys, trying to fly in another direction.  It is listed as the first album that they did under Reprise.

You might get the flavor of where they were even a couple of years later.  Someone mentioned that they had no business releasing anything in 1968 and I would beg to differ, and I would suggest that it was/is impossible to separate any of what was going on in time, from the music. 

The US was ready to explode with war protests, and the murders of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King...Any attempt to inspire calm was the socially responsible thing to do, even though it might not have been the creative intent.  It was also a place for some of Dennis' work as well.  Some of the cuts are fine work, although not a commercial blockbuster.

I have not seen the film and to listen to what the comments are...if someone involved with the Band thought it was the wrong time, maybe it was.  That is an "informed" opinion...Instinct and intuition are very important in looking at the big picture.

Timing is everything in that business...   

     

I think Brian's 1967-69 work is among his very best and I am NOT a fan of Bruce Johnston's taste or really of him period. He's not the devil per se but he is very narrow in view. A real sell out actually.

I don't think you know what I mean....

Here's why Friends should've been released: it had great fucking songs on it! Who cares if it wasn't cool or hip? Will that matter in 100 years? I personally like it better than Sgt. Pepper's. While Sgt. Pepper's has two or three songs that are probably better than anything on Friends, as a whole, Friends wins out. I'd rather hear a cracking 1:40 pop song than another "Within You, Without You".

This thread inspired me to listen to the whole Friends record today for the first time in quite awhile. My views on it have not changed. It's a lovely, mellow outing, the first sparks of the whole band collectively writing material which would fully blossom into the 70's and scaled back as they may be Brian's production instincts are still intact. The title track may well be their most overlooked single. However I still maintain the musical and social climate surrounding the album's release made it possibly the worst choice of direction they could have picked from a commercial standpoint. I see a parallel to the Kinks great 68 release "Village Green Preservation Society". Both wonderful, beautifully realised efforts from big name groups on the wane saleswise, both totally at odds with what was 'in' at that time. As posted before, 42 years later it makes no bit of difference to their enjoyment now, but back then what they really needed was music with power. Both Ray Davies and Brian have never been one to follow the crowd and jump on bandwagons and that's what makes them unique and great.


Will you marry me?  ;D

Sometimes I'm not sure who I dislike more for their crass commercialism, Bruce or Mike... Though at least Mike can write songs that are not uniformly awful!

A Dutch record collectors fanzine called Platenblad had a four page article about the Friends album a few years ago, I think they described it perfectly:

My second marriage proposal on this board!  

"It's Rainin' Men - Alleluia!"

You are a sweetie - you  made my day!  ;)

Well, the album has a bossa nova song, waltzes, an exotica track, old school Beach Boys harmonies, cocktail music from Mars ("Passin' By"), experiments in dissonant jazz, a prayer, some white boy funk mixed with a roller rink organ ("When a Man..."), and organ drone poetry. Jesus, man, what else do you want? And yes, there are less instruments on the tracks, but you can't deny that some of the arrangements are very inventive. "Be Here in the Mornin'" is a very dynamic arrangement. It nearly has as many twists and turns as "Good Vibrations". I mean, it's not quite there, but it's still impressive.

Back atcha'  ;)

You descibe the album to a T. However for me, that extra something that makes it an outright classic is just missing.

Whether or not one likes Mike or Bruce is a personal right, and I support that, but, it is very important to remember that when Brian was absent from public view for the better part of about 25 years;  it was Carl, Dennis, Alan, Bruce and Mike who kept the Band "alive" in the news, in the music world, on tour on colleges campuses, when most bands quit touring and interacting with the public.  

They are responsible for Kokomo, "bringing the magic" to a whole new generation of fans.  I think they were as surprised as anyone about that, but they worked at it, after playing venues which were half-filled at their lowest point.  Brian came back publicly in a strong position because of their continuous work. People forget this.  Had they disbanded (as the Beatles did) when Brian stopped touring, many might have forgotten Brian.  It doesn't diminish Brian's compositional genius.  

Personally, I rejoice that "Brian is Back" in the public eye, composing, and see him whenever I can, but being "balanced" in a 50-year assessment is very important. The Band had to learn to manage without him and learn how to survive professionally, in his absence even though his compositional skill and "vision" was the original catalyst for the band.  

If you watch that Gaumont Palace Youtube interview and mini performance, you will hear them talk about how they have to "tailor the shows" to the audiences...It does not make them a sell out, it shows common sense and being "responsive" to the wishes of that particular audience.  

Carl was right next to Mike, Al and Dennis, and seemed to be on board and seemed to be "into" moving forward creatively and taking new directions.  Maybe they were more relaxed in that setting than in others...but there is a definite dissatisfaction with what was going on with the pressure to "stay in the box" - maybe because it benefited the original record label but stifled their personal creative growth.  Their work and persistence in "staying out there" has made this 50 year saga possible.   JMO    

I have nothing against Bruce as a contributor to the Beach Boys' sound or even some of his suggestions (chief among them, for instance, is getting Brian to record on an eight-track [if I recall correctly], which possibly would have happened much later without Bruce's intervention). However, I think the songs he brought to the group have basically all been uniformly terrible schmaltz. (And not even in any endearing way!) Of course, any good suggestions he makes seem to swiftly offset by terrible ideas like a disco version of "Here Comes The Night" or having him be a producer for the Beach Boys! Maybe I have a soft spot sometimes for "Disney Girls", however...

edit: noticed a spelling error

Well, I know exactly what I meant. A little thinking about the point the Beach Boys had got to at that point in their career and considering some of the earlier posts shouldn't make it too hard to understand. Let me know if I can help you any further. But on the whole, it isn't important enough to make something out of it that it ain't

That technical stuff (8-track) is out of my domain, and I liked almost everything they released, because of the vocals, whether the critics liked it or not.  "Here Comes the Night," I find, very useful (alongside the Stones) for "treadmill music."  I have been revisiting that era largely as a result of the discussion on this board, so my thanks are in order.

When I first heard it - I was sort of surprised, because it seemed so "out of character" for them.  But they have done so many different genres, including Gospel,  "That Same Song" - which is clearly not "surf - girl-y - car" music, that is was not a complete surprise, but proof that they could perform that genre.  During that time of creative change, it was important to keep an open mind, for the music, not for their stereotype...

      

I think Bruce's songs from 69-71 were ok. Not great, not bad. Some beautiful arrangements. His solo album was awful though. I do sort of like 2 of the songs (Someone to Dance with Me and Think About You). Also his song on BB85 is very solid. Speaking of BB85, that album has grown on me. A few awful songs though, especially California Calling.

Apologies if this is a little off-topic, but I've just watched the 'trailer' for this ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGjRMhzlKe4 )
and noticed a bit of footage I've seen before and often wondered about: from about 2.10 to 2.18 there's a moodily lit clip of Brian at the piano. It looks like it probably dates from '66/67 and puts me in mind of the Inside Pop Surf's Up footage in some respects. Does anyone know what the clip's from? And do we have any idea what Brian's playing at the piano?

If anyone knows anything about the footage it'd make my day :).

Taken from the same footage as the 1967 "Surf's Up".

To me Friends has always seemed like an amalgamation of the last for albums (Pet Sounds, Smile, Smiley Smile, Wild Honey). You get some inventive instrumental combinations from Pet Sounds, but filtered through the complex simplicity of Smile (sparser but just as exotic), coupled with the more laid back approach to recording of Smiley Smile/Wild Honey and also the less ambitious (not in a bad way) approach to songwriting of Wild Honey.  I love it, its in my top 5. 
This subject also makes me think about how I read certain a Beach Boys book (Heroes and Villains) when I was 14 or so that thankfully got me into the music, but also caused me to ignore this era of their career for years because it gave the impression that most everything after Smile was mediocre. I can still remember looking at a copy of friends when i was 16 or 17 and passing on it. I didn't get a chance to hear it until 6 years later. Regardless H&V still holds a special place in my heart. I was barred from my local library for a bit b/c I kept it for 2 years.

This post got me jamming Friends all over and loving it. Thanks. (Not that I needed a reason to listen to more BB...) So tell me people- I pre-ordered this doc and am chomping at the bit to see it! How'd you see it/get it so quickly? I'm dying to see it.

In Europe it was released 11/1/10.  :)

Okay, have given it a blast (couldn't pay full attention due to looking after the baby at the same time) but I think this is only the second "official" outing for the Fire music (American Band being the first); and the tag to the SMiLE version of Wind Chimes used here sounds like a session extract rather than anything from the Good Vibes box set. Wonder if these were officially sanctioned or were slipped in from SoT?  I'd have to back-to-back them to be sure but anyone with a 20-month-old daughter knows that's unlikely to happen anytime soon!

The subtlety of the Friends album is really marvelous, it's so understated. I think Brian was upset with the Smile sessions, he bit off more than he could chew, it was too esoteric, too pretentious, too ambitious. Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends were all released within a year of one another (all three remarkably between Sgt. Peppers and White Album), There are only three (technically two) songs on the albums not written by Brian, I think Brian outgrew the Smile project, he shed its skin and salvaged what he could. Smiley Smile was Brian flushing all the bad energy out of his system, Wild Honey is Brian finding his footing again, and Friends is the culmination.

So it was an out-take from Inside Pop? I didn't think any were known to exist.  ???

Not an out-take as such; extracts i a better phrase. This doc also has part of the title sequence and a clip of the presenter hailing Brian's music. I think the out-takes search is on ice at the mo' -  others will confirm.

Yes... and no - first turned up in the 1985 American Band video-biog. The original footage was mute so they got someone to work out what Brian was playing, then recorded a track to match his hands in the video.

Can't wait. If you sanction this video, Andrew, I'm sure it's awesome and credible. Can't wait (AGAIN!)

Just watched it. I thought the first DVD wasn't all that interesting (it's mostly the same old pre-1966 band bio that we've all heard and read many times before), but it gets interesting from the 'Pet Sounds' era on. I hated what Bruce had to say about 'Friends', but apart from that this is certainly enjoyable. The most impressive moment to me was the 'End of an Era' extra where Fred Vail gets emotional. I guess he really cares very deeply for the band.

Yes, Bruce was the king of cheese in many ways, but his two contributions to Sunflower are both great, and he did produce LA Light Album, which is a understated and overlooked classic in my view, and the last thing of real beauty and quality that the Beach Boys produced.

For dissing Friends in public Bruce Johnston has recently felt the wrath of the universe (see viagra thread).

I'd take Bruce's songwriting over Mike's any day.

I believe that footage is in American band no?

It's overdubbed by someone playing the "Wa ha la lu lay" part of Worms if I remember.

That's it.

Is the "Wa ha la lu lay" part just a piano or is there addition sounds that I'm not hearing?
It's like that's the only missing piece of Smile NOT included on boots...or none that I've seen.

Said audio track was added to the silent footage in 1984 by the makers of the American Band video-doc. It's not on any boots because:

1) it was recorded in 1984, ergo...
2) it's not a Smile recording.

Indeed, Brian was probably just banging out something while the cameramen did some B-roll.

Question is... why wasn't it "Shortenin' Bread" ?   :o

hahahahaha!

I can't believe that Bruce dissed "Friends." That's all I've been jamming lately. Well that and "Love You."  ;D

I think i'll be ordering this today. 

Also, i really dig Friends.  It came out 19 years before my birth but that's ok.

It should be noted that Bruce is one of the harshest critics of Beach Boys music done after Pet Sounds and Smile. Mainly because he's a Brian Wilson fan first and foremost.

Why am I imagining Max Headroom having a laugh at this guy's expense?

Well even that doesn't make total sense because Brian still worked a lot through 1970-1 and I and several others feel he did some of his best work from 1967-71. The 1963-66 stuff is great too but what came later should not be under rated. We all know Brian didn't go straight to bed in  May 1967 don't we?

While I agree with you, I'd also like to add Bruce's likeness for the hits, which doesn't surprise anyone who knows his past and current career. I just hate how he gives crap to the hardcore fans for celebrating post Wild Honey through anything else we hardcore people celebrate more than the 'greatest hits.' But sometimes he's got great things to say like Sunflower being his favorite album of the BB.

Bruce is uncultured!!

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3424/3192435737_6d81f4bb88.jpg)

Actually, Bruce's favorite Beach Boys album is...Sunflower.

Scott Totten

I'm well aware of Bruce ranking Sunflower at the top of his list of Beach Boys albums. But that still does not change the fact that he's one of the harshest critics of their music after Pet Sounds and Smile. Not bashing the man or his personal tastes, just stating a fact that he's shared with us so many times over...

Bruce said in the documentary that it didn't surprise him that 'Friends' didn't make the top 100, because he thought it shouldn't even have made the top 1000. That's beyond criticizing, that's ridiculing.

Yeah, and...? Go on the Britain board and have it out with Bruce. It's his opinion, not mine. :)

... which reminds me... Mojo Magazine August 1995 (nr. 21): 100 greatest albums ever made....

Nr.1 was Pet Sounds. And the only other Beach Boys album that was mentioned ... in the so-called "bubbling under"-list, at nr. 112 was - surprise! - Friends.

(and I almost forgot a 3rd “Voted for in vain”-list (30 of the personal passions that appeared high and hopeful on some contributor’s lists): one of them was Pacific Ocean Blue


but that’s just a list, I know…   :)

found this a little boring, suppose i was expecting too much. It just goes over too much old ground covered on lots of other documentaries.

I found Philip Lambert and Fred Vail's interviews the most enlightening for new stuff. No offense to anyone involved though as it was very well put together. What happened to 20/20 though? that was 1969 right? - do it again, i went to sleep, time to get alone?

I would have liked if it could have gone more in the direction of philip lambert's book and left out the personal stuff about murray and mike love and so on and just looked at the songwriting but then that's just me.

I never finished Lambert's book since it was a little too music-theory-heavy for me (I am shamefully uninitiated in that arena) but what I did read -- and of that, what I understood -- was very enlightening and extremely well done. More books like that should be written about Brian Wilson. As I recall though it gave short shrift to his post-Smile stuff. Which, as Lambert himself readily admits, was not groundbreaking anymore but rather was simply excellent work within the confines of then-contemporary pop music. Nevertheless, I would still like to see Lambert write a book to cover in more detail 1967 to 1977 as I find it to be their most interesting period in some respects.

Found the DVD in my mailbox at last and watched it instantly. I really enjoyed it. It's the exact mix of interviews, narration and music clips that makes it a captivating documentary. I really think it shows the essential contribution of Brian to pop music.
Actually, I mostly enjoyed Prof. Lambert's music explanations (got to get his book). I dig it, when people explain music, not being a musician myself.

Hey Danny Hutton, get a new pair of spectacles, the one you have don't fit, you have to get them in place every 30 seconds. That must be annoying?

And Peter, I'm currently reading your book "Paul McCartney A Life" and now a have your voice in my head while reading it  ;D

Yeah Danny definitely could do with getting those things adjusted!

Got my copy today.  I've watched the first disc.  Like others have said, nothing startling there, but it is well done and I enjoyed seeing Dave Marks getting some attentiona and offering his thoughts on the band the early music.

It was great. Loved some of the footage that I had not seen before. Great insight etc. But Jeez- maybe a bit of variation in the music eh? That piano line was really nice and I like the idea of using it (what BW was playing supposedly and then it was re-recorded? very cool!) but using it THAT much almost exclusively? wow. Sometimes it would just cut out and not fade or anything. Strange editing choice I thought, considering how polished the rest of the doc was. Either way, I was so glad to watch this and will share with friends.

Watched the first disc and enjoyed it; put in the second disc and my computer ejected it 2 minutes later, telling me it was scratched. Annoying. Maybe I'll try it in the DVD player.

Anyway, I really like this documentary.

I ordered the thing two months ago and it just came in this week. I almost looked to buy it again.

I really enjoyed the fact that it gave props to certain songs that normally get ignored, such as 'In the Back of My Mind' and 'Wind Chimes'. I was thinking that once it passed Pet Sounds they would casually mention Good Vibrations, Darlin, and Do it Again. But they did post Pet Sounds a good. Except for the negative review of Friends by Bruce. How can he love Smiley and hate Friends? It doesn't make sense. I love them both, but I think Friends is better.

It still feels incomplete to me. I would have liked it to go all the way to the present with TLOS and BRG. Songs like At My Window, Til I Die, Sail on Sailor, Mt V & F, Love You lp, and solo career.

Maybe the 3rd part will come out eventually. :)

What version of Wind Chimes is mentioned? Smile or Smiley?

Also, can anyone tell me what post GV songs are mentioned/discussed or played?

Smiley. Bruce Johnston gives that album high praise. I was very surprised about that.

Santa brought me a copy yesterday.  Looks great.  Hope to watch it today...

Watched DVD 1 last night, & loved it.  Once of the best BB docs so far.  Although, probably more detail about the music than a casual fan would tolerate — probably best for mega-fans, & musicians.

Something that bugged me though: Peter Ames Carlin, I think, said that when BW started using the Wrecking Crew, the BBoys 'never touched their instruments' again (I'm paraphrasing).

Hmm, haven't watched to verify what you're saying; but this is the way these nasty false rumours get started. Seemingly PC videos spreading non-truths as the gospel. 

Yeah, I was disappointed to hear that too, especially from Peter who, I thought, would've known better :(

Yeah, strange.  I wonder if the editing, or something, is to blame?

"...to the extent that the Beach Boys had continued to play on the records, they were now, like, not touching instruments." - exact quote from Carlin on the 'BW Songwriter' DVD.

I think it was more of a vague comment not intended to be taken literally. Obviously Carlin of all people knows that the Beach Boys continued to play their instruments occasionally, he was just trying to quickly convey how important the Wrecking Crew were to Brian's music in making his own 'Wall of Sound'.

On to my review of the Documentary:

Just finished it today. I'm very impressed but at the same time I am not impressed. Honestly, as I recall, 30 minutes into the documentary and I was still listening to commentary on Surfin' USA. Given that the movie is only 3 hours long I expected to be further along into the discography at that point.

It was rather irritating that not once did they talk about the exotica music and it's influence on Brian's Pet Sounds work. Nor did it talk about the musical influences for SMiLE...which I am deeply interested in and have yet to get a concise answer for. It did talk a lot about the jazz chords Brian used, and how he meshed jazz chords together with a rock sound to make something very unique, especially in his early work. Also, a bit of time was set aside for SMiLE, but no new information was given...and only a few songs were talked about. I'd have loved to have heard more about the instrumentals for 'Wonderful' and 'Look' - but I understand that not EVERY song could be talked about. They did cover 'Wind-Chimes' - both for SMiLE and Smiley Smile - with some great footage to go along with it.

Philip Lambert was a great addition to this DVD. His commentary on 'God Only Knows' really stuck out to me. He started playing the chords for GOK on the piano and it sounded unreal...Making me wish Brian had kept more of his demos. Lambert plays us many Beach Boy tunes on the piano, giving us a glimpse at what Brian's songs sounded like well before he went into the studio. I also LOVED the footage of Specter in the studio, as well as the in-depth look at his influence on Brian. A real treat was the commentary on 'In The Back Of My Mind' - it finally gets some recognition for its beauty - lyrically and instrumentally.

In all, the documentary is VERY well put together. They did a great job balancing the story of the Beach Boys and the music itself. A great narration is peppered through the movie - guiding us from one album to the next. The footage during the song 'Cabinessence' is nearly worth the price of admission. Also, the incredible highway footage during the song 'Heroes and Villains' was a rush. Most of the footage/photos I had not seen, but then again I haven't watched too many Beach Boy documentaries.

I'm not going to spoil anything (and this story may be old news to many of you), but that last story that Hal Blaine tells us (about his last studio session with Brian) nearly brought me to tears. What a powerful story. The movie ends on a high note, as I think Carlin talks about Brian finishing SMiLE and releasing it to the public in 2004.

It gets 5/5 from me. Yes, I wrote some cons here, but this would make a great introduction for future Brian Wilson fanatics...paving the way for more beautiful music to be created by up and coming artists...and thus I love it.

Rab does a nice job of reading my mind on this one. I was going for some kind of comic overstatement to emphasize the significance of the Wrecking Crew folk in BW's production style. Clearly, the other BB's played instruments here and there during BW's peak era, then played even more...almost exclusively, on some records...through the early 70s.

And just so you know, there's plenty of room for misstatements and blown attempts at making yourself clear when you're sitting across from a camera for five or six hours, going on and on, blah-blah-blah. A lot of balls hovering over your head. You're forever wrestling to balance the loads of stuff you've got memorized with the need to get to the point asap before everyone falls asleep. All that, plus how does my hair look? Am I slumping too much? Sitting too stiffly? And is it okay for me to scratch my nose now?

That's how it feels to me, anyway.

I just finished viewing this documentary, and while I did not hear or see anything I had not seen before, I thought the people who put it together did a nice job of illustrating how Brian grew as a producer and songwriter over the course of the Sixties. Brian had a wonderful ability to absorb influences, synthesize them into his music, and create something his own in the process.

It was good to hear from Danny Hutton, who confirmed the data he told some of us many years ago. He was diplomatic, but the information was there. I also enjoyed Peter, Domenic, and especially Phillip Lambert`s commentary. It was good to hear from Bruce, but to again have the issue of Wild Honey`s production go undisclosed was too bad.

Friends as an album was well described by Domenic. I think it was too bad that Bruce saw it as a slight effort. I personally believe that Brian saw it as a vehicle for family healing, and recorded it with that intent in mind. The albums that got the most attention--Surfer Girl, All Summer Long, Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds, and The Smile Era, are all my favorite Brian stuff from back then.

I also appreciated Peter bringing out Brian`s recent creative spurt, because I believe that his last few efforts have been most enjoyable. I think the point made in the  film about The Beach Boys being young and a family enterprise were critical to understanding Brian`s reaction to changes in the Sixties.

Thanks to all who contribted to this project, especially my old friend Gary Pig Gold, for bringing it into reality.

Peter, what were you hoping Bruce would 'disclose' or at least discuss, concerning the production of Wild Honey?

Mikie, from documents I had in my old collection that came from Capitol, I have concluded that the Wild Honey that Brian would have finished was quite different than the Wild Honey The group eventually submitted to Capitol. After the Darlin and Time To Get Alone blowout, I have come to the conclusion that, based on the documents I had in Carl`s hand that went to Capitol, along with Capitol`s memoranda in response, that Brother 9003 was the Brian Wild Honey lp, and that Capitol 2859 was finished by the group, with Brian`s occasional participation, with help from the rest of the group. As Bruce points out, Brian was "cooling out" by that time. Anecdotal evidence from David Dalton`s eyewitness account of the Brian of the period in Fish Wrap Magazine supports this conclusion. Wild Honey, as finished was the first evidence of Carl`s slow but sure transition into the leadership of  the group. Evidence from the earlier period would indicate that he took over day to day dealing with Capitol shortly after Best of the  Beach Boys was put out and promoted over Pet Sounds.

Peter, I have a picture of the track line-up of which you speak of. I assume this is what you mean - it includes "Wild Honey", "Here Comes the Night", "Let the Wind Blow", "I Was Made to Love Her", "The Letter", "Darlin'", "A Thing or Two", "Aren't You Glad", "Cool, Cool Water", "Game of Love", "Lonely Days", and "Honey Get Home".


 

What is "Honey Get Home?"... and was Brian much more into the project b4 the whole TTGA/Darlin' blowout? That's kinda weird...

YEah, I remember seeing that track lineup. 
Peter nice to see you bring your wisdom here more often. 
Was reminded of you as I listed a mag for sale today on Ebay....

Evidently, just a basic track exists.

That's kind of vague. It could mean anything. My money says if it's even a shred of an idea from Brian it could be insightful and awesome....'specially if it's about Honey.

Stand Back - Speak Normally.  That's what the sign said near the call box outside the gate at 10452 Bellagio when I went up to see Brian.

Did you?

Yeah.  Summer of '76.

Hi Mikie...yes that is the list. Carl began doing the liaison work with Capitol shortly after Best of the Beach Boys came out and their promotional muscle went there instead to Pet Sounds. This is just a theory, but I think that Honey Get Home was an early working title for I`d Love Just Once to See You.

This isn't based on anything I've been told specifically, and I'm probably talking out of my ass, but I have strong suspicion that there were more differences between the BW Wild Honey and what we got instead than just the track line up.

For those who wish to do the Sherlock Holmes thing, here's a list of shows & (known) sessions from the period in question:

September   
11 - session: Sloop John B/Help Me, Rhonda/Good Vibrations/California Girls/Surfer
       Girl/God Only Knows/The Letter [Wally Heider]
18 - Smiley Smile album released (Brother)
23 - session: With A Little Help From My Friends
26 - single session: Wild Honey
27 - single session: Wild Honey
29 - session: Bluebirds Over The Mountain [Western]

October
  ? - The Many Moods Of Murry Wilson album released
  4 - Wild Honey session: Aren't You Glad [Wally Heider]
  6 - State Fairgrounds Coliseum, Indianapolis, IN*
        [w/The Box Tops, The Idle Few and The Chosen Few]
  6 - Freedom Hall, Louisville KY*
       [w/The Box Tops, Soul Inc and The Alphabetical Order]
  7 - Cleveland Hall, Cleveland OH
       [2 shows w/The Box Tops, The Ohio Express, King Kirby and The US Male]
  8 - Civic Opera House, Chicago IL [2 shows]
11 - Wild Honey session: untitled song
12 - Wild Honey session: untitled song
14 - Redwood session: Time To Get Alone [Wally Heider] [12]
15 - Redwood session: Time To Get Alone [Wally Heider]
18 - Wild Honey/Wind Chimes single released
25 - Wild Honey session: The Letter/Game Of Love
26 - Wild Honey session: Here Comes The Night/Cool, Cool Water
27 - Wild Honey session: Darlin'/A Thing Or Two/Game of Love [Wally Heider]
28 - Wild Honey session:
       I Was Made To Love Her/Lonely Days/Been 'Way Too Long [Wally Heider]
29 - Wild Honey session: Cool, Cool Water [Wally Heider]
31 - Wild Honey session: Lonely Days [vocals - Wally Heider]

  November
  1 - Wild Honey session: Been 'Way Too Long
?? - Wild Honey session: Let The Wind Blow
?? - Wild Honey session: Mama Says [Wally Heider]
?? - Wild Honey session: Aren't You Glad [Wally Heider]
13 - Wild Honey session: I'd Love Just Once To See You [Wally Heider]
14 - Wild Honey session: Country Air [Wally Heider]
15 - Wild Honey session: How She Boogalooed It [Wally Heider]
17 - Masonic Auditorium, Detroit MI [w/Buffalo Springfield, Strawberry Alarm Clock,
       Soul Survivors and The Pickle Brothers (for all November shows) ]
18 - Le Moyne College, Syracuse NY
18 - Memorial Auditorium, Buffalo NY [w/Caesar and His Romans]
19 - Richmond Arena, Richmond VA
19 - Constitution Hall, Washington DC [2 shows]
20 - Bushnell Auditorium, Hartford CT
20 - Fairfield University, Fairfield CT
21 - Westchester County Center, Westchester NY
22 - Penn Theater, Pittsburgh PA [2 shows]
23 - Back Bay Theater, Boston MA
24 - Rhode Island Auditorium, Providence RI
24 - Back Bay Theater, Boston MA*
25 - Military Academy, West Point NY
25 - St Johns University, Jamaica NY
26 - Seton Hall University, South Orange NJ
26 - Civic Center, Baltimore MD
        [Baltimore band Bob Brady & the Concords added for this show only]
28 - Dennis Wilson session: Tune #L [Western]

December
15 - UNICEF Variety Gala, Paris, France
       [w/Lena Horne, Victor Borge, Johnny Halliday, Ravi Shankar, Marlon Brando,
       Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi]
18 - Wild Honey album released
18 - Darlin'/Country Air single released

Whatever happened to change the album from Brian's to the band's did so startlingly rapidly

The way it was explained to me, Brian was devastated after being told he couldn`t use company funds to do production outside The Beach Boys. He essentially withdrew from producing for a period of several months, just playing sessions with the band if he showed up at all.

Thats so awesome...I was with ya in spirit...did you get to go in? Eat steak with the maestro?

Yeah, I went in and it was awesome. I'll tell the story here one of these days.

NOw Now Now Now Now NOW Now Now Now Now Now NOW

Doing the Sherlock Holmes bit, we could very, very tentatively place the change of Wild Honey hands at the first two weeks of November--since we don't have any definite dates for those tracks marked ??

Just finished watching this documentary and wanted to add my thoughts.  I liked Bruce's commentary in this documentary.  He really is such a huge Brian fan.  I was particularly struck by his comments of how Brian was such a leader in the studio for his age.  The comment he made of Brian basically trying to wrangle together his group of "wild boys"  to do the sessions just struck me.  As Bruce said, here you had a bunch of young guys with girlfriends, money etc...and in a sense they wanted to hurry up and get out of there (the studio). Here Brian was with this huge responsibility of writing, producing, arranging, getting the guys to sing the parts.  I'm finding it hard to articulate what I am trying to say here.  I guess I am saying that I am (once again) in awe of how young Brian was and what he accomplished.  He really really was such a gifted unique talent.  Yes I know this. sometimes you need a certain slant of light on a well know fact to jar you from your sleepy familiarity of the subject at hand.  Often, I will see a new interview or read a post here on a well know fact and the way it is put or spoken about snaps me to attention and I go "wow, yeah...that's right...isn't that amazing?" lol 

All in all, good documentary.  Also, over the years, the more I read and watch, I can really see why Brian withdrew.  Poor guy could only take so much.  I really believe it was a big "F" you to everybody.  "F" this, I am not doing this anymore.  Can't blame him really. 

I have never heard about a TTGA/Darlin' blowout.  Can anyone explain?  I'm sorry if it's been gone over multiple times before.

The short version is that one or more members of the Beach Boys were not happy that Brian was putting his songwriting and production efforts into the group Redwood instead of his own group. Both "Time To Get Alone" and "Darlin'" were initially worked on as material for Redwood who were being groomed as a Brother Records signing (they eventually became Three Dog Night). Eyewitness accounts differ, but Brian was reportedly made to feel like a traitor for giving such good material to others (there's a certain logic behind this when one considers that both "Darlin'" and "Time To Get Alone" are superb commercial compositions and productions, and were worked on in the period that immediately followed some very un-commercial material being thrown together for SMILEY SMILE).

On the one hand, you can't blame the Beach Boys for feeling like that - having said that, it's very telling, in my opinion, that Brian deliberately gave his most commercial compositions to another group over his own.  Seems like a very deliberate act of rebellion (for lack of a better word) for a guy that supposedly just wanted to get back to making music with the band again.

Just finished watcing this (and the great 1969-82 follow up) and have to echo the comments of others by my disappointment at Bruce Johnston's opinion of Friends.

Each to their own but him saying that Friends shouldn't have been top 1000 (!) has made me question his taste/opinion of his own band! 

I would have thought his continuing membership would have been cause enough for concern....

Although I like the album, it is completely uncommercial. A lot of the songs sound like half-ideas that have been fleshed out a little (which probably accounts for the length of the album).

It also features some of Brian's most adventurous songwriting. What to make of that? If you play Friends (the track) on a piano, it makes very little sense - the verse shifts key at least 3 times, and you'd never know unless you tried to play it. When A Man Needs A Woman shifts key downwards, which is rare enough. Little Bird has a very weird relationship with the home key. Transcendental Meditations horn arrangement! I hardly think Brian or the band weren't trying

I wonder if Brian had retired from the group completely after 1967 that Mike and Bruce's "commercial" album would be "Surfin 1968" with the dated formula. ;D