The Smiley Smile Message Board

Interesting Documentary, even if much of the footage is recycled from other things. I'm adding to this post as I watch it. Has Steve Desper being interviewed about recording Manson's demos at Brian's house. Also has some brief audio snippets of in studio dialogue from the sessions, which I imagine will be of great interest to many.

http://www.imdb.com/video/wab/vi1090716441/

Well, the very first sentence is totally wrong, so that's a great start. Manson knew Melcher wasn't there - he'd creepy-crawled his mom's beach house, where he was staying. Manson knew who was living there.

Later: jeez, the guy who's narrating has got just the most boring voice. I may not stay awake long enough to see all this.

Later still: can't deny, there's some Family footage I've never seen before, or not for a long time.

Later pt. 3: despite what the caption says, i don't think those are the Brother tapes. Also, there's some very creative editing of the 1980 Dennis interview: he's actually talking about Brian.

Later still, still: cool - the "Never Learn..." tag !

About one-third in: this is fascinating, if only because the compiled footage of Charlie from prison makes it clear that maybe 90% of his weirdness is a complete put on.

Halfway: dammit, they did it again - relating, accurately, that Manson moved a telescope outside Melcher's house, then saying this was what made them move from 10050. The telescope was on the deck of Doris day's beach house, where Melcher went after leaving the Cielo Drive house. That's either poor research or, more likely, bending the facts to fit the story.

About 55 minutes in: caption says late August 1969. Andrew says summer 1972. Also, be interesting to see if the use of footage and stills from the TV movie Helter Skelter is credited.

An hour in: dammit, Mike's talking about Brian, not Dennis. Jeez, the guy who wrote & edited this needs a few lessons in good manners and responsibility. Also, what the f*** has the sale of Sea Of Tunes got to to with Charlie Manson ?

I'm halfway through it. I did groan as soon as the narrator implied that the Tate slayings were intended for Melcher. Also do not like how they are editing interviews from Mike and Carl relating to Dennis's drowning and cutting them up to appear that they are taliking about his involvement with Manson.

On the plus side Sandra Good's comments on Dennis wanting to leave the BB's to live with the Family are interesting as are the recordings of Clem covering Manson songs. I think much of the Family footage is from a VERY rare documentary called simply "Manson" which I cannot find for the life of me.

Andrew compare the smiling, laidback charmer who was arrested back in '69 to the nutcase presented in interviews from the 80's and beyond. In the court footage at the trial he is talking his guff but doing so in a very mellow, calculated manner. If he's crazy then he's crazy like a fox. Now compare the footage  of him much later - he is completely stark raving drooling bonkers!! Not sure if it's a put on or if he really had progressed to insanity territory.

i have been sneaking this in while at work today. overlooking the obvious stuff mentioned above i am enjoying this. takes me back to summer 1969 when this stuff was breaking news. i had 2 paper routes then and would read about the case while delivering the papers. then the dennis connection became know to me. kinda reliving my youth for me.

Basically... badly presented cut & paste job from pre-existing footage (legally released and otherwise) with an equally badly researched & written script, and some outstandingly misleading (and intentionally so) editing.

And no, those are not the Manson sessions from Brian's home studio.

The biggest problem is that the premise is Manson was paying back the recording industry for turning its back on him, and as anyone who knows even a little about the murders, that's just not so. Charlie knew who lived at 10050 in July 1969 and on the night in question he knew who was very likely to be there as well, and he was right. He got the people he was after. The LaBianca's were just a a distraction.

I think the problem is there is so much conflicting information that it's impossible to know for certain just why this all went down. Is there is more to this than meets the eye, or should it just be treated as a cautionary tale of what can happen if you take far too many drugs?

One thing I forgot to mention - strip away everything else and the fact remains that, in 1967-8-9, Charlie Manson was a pretty good singer, with interesting phrasing. Of course, this doesn't excuse everything else, but... the man could sing.

Apparently Melcher didn't think so.  :hat

When I first noticed this discussion, I thought I'd just let it be.  However, when I checked back, and read some of the posts, I realized two things: not only am I credited in it, but Annie & I are given a 'Special Thanks' in the end credits...  So, I decided I'd better chime in about it, if only to explain my involvement.
The director, Ryan Oksenberg, did this documentary as his thesis to graduate from film school.  I first became aware of it when he had posted clips on YouTube during the time of his production.  I immediately sent out a cease & desist order when I saw film of mine being used without any request.  By the time he had contacted me, I realized that he was grabbing other things from sources that there was no possible way of obtaining rights to use, and I softend quite a bit.  I connected with the fact that this was just an 'artistic venture', with no possibility of commercial release.  (Plus, as Andrew mentioned, I saw a few things that I hadn't seen before, and was a little impressed with his research)  I decided right then that rather than being an obstacle, I'd be somewhat supportive.
That was almost 5 years ago, and Ryan is now a bit of an adopted son; (although Annie & Joani - his 'birth Mom' - speak frequently, he is far from home now, so we sort of look after him.  Just another California son!).  (And don't let his minimal imdb credits fool you; he's making quite an impression here in LA!)  Granted, he does play a little loose with the facts here, but there's no denying this is a different look at Manson than we've been given before.  And I've got a new friend, and friendship for me is a forever kind of thing!   

I thought he did a pretty good job and am glad I stumbled on it. My only gripe is how he plays with some of the Endless Harmony footage a little loosely. I don't agree on the "revenge towards Melcher" theory, but I know many do.

Plus side - good compilation of Charlie's post-arrest footage, uses rarely-seen Family footage from 1968-9

Minus side - the world's most boring narrator, uses footage from at least three TV movies without credit (including using some stills and presenting them as actual photos), poor basic research and worst of all, tampering with other folks footage to make it fit with his script and concept. You just don't do that !

Sorry Ed, he may be making an impression in LA and I'm sure he's a nice guy, but for me his artistic integrity and credibility died with this film.

Re watched this and another Manson documentary yesterday and something struck me - many of The Manson girls were HOT! Deranged for sure but still hot. Poor taste I know, but if you guys could have done the nasty with one of them back in the day ( and gonorrhea was not an issue) who would you pick?

I've always kinda thought Squeaky was, uh...cute, I guess. I'm a sucker for those little red-heads.
Sandra Good is sorta hot but way, way too wacky. Somehow I think Squeaky tops 'em.

I thought Squeaky was very cute but man did she age badly! Sandra scares me way more than any of the killers to be honest.
I'd have took my chances with Susan Atkins. Once she lost that manic, strung-out expression she was incredibly attractive, even into her 50's. I doubt we will ever know the true extent of her involvement in Sharon's murder. Shortly before her death she was claiming she was no more accountable for the murder than Linda Kasabiain was! I think she could never fully come to terms with her guilt and her continued minimising of her role was the only way she was able to live with herself.

AGD if you should happen to read this, I think what you'd believed to be new Family footage is actually taken from a film I have just watched called "Manson Family Movies", which is very convincing pseudo footage of the 'lost films' of the Family rumoured to be buried out in Death Valley.

Does anyone know when the footage of Brian getting out of his bed at 61:43 was shot? It's very hard to tell because it's so brief and grainy, but it looks like it could be '73 or '74 Brian. It doesn't look to me like the '76 footage of Brian in bed that's commonly shown.

Ta muchly.

It won't load for me, and I REALLY want to see this footage. Damn!