The Smiley Smile Message Board

When did this start?

People have always said his vocals on GIOMH are shouty, especially his new vocals on Soul Searchin'.
But I've also read where people think Orange Crate Art's vocals have his shouting characteristics.

I myself would like to note Water Builds Up and Drip Drop as shouty vocals in my book; but I find nothing wrong with them.

The shouty voice made it's first tentative appearances back on BB85 and has been in vogue ever since.

good call...Male Ego comes to mind

He sounds quite shouty on the Knebworth DVD.

First shouty vocal I know of is "Lucy Jones", 11/12/74. It got a whole lot worse, but that's the earliest one I've heard.

I REALLY gotta hear that one :lol

I wish every Beach Boys song had a shouty-vocal counterpart!

It ain't that good. There's a reason why some unreleased stuff is unreleased.  :)

Sure, sure, But you've heard it. I think it should all be available for everyone to listen and decide for themselves.

Please, make it so.

I think every Beach Boys song should alternate verses between non shouty and shouty!!

My definition of 'shouty' must be different to everyone else. I hear it in the bulk of 'Wouldn't It Be Nice' from 66. ???

Yea but that's good shouty...   ;)

Yeah...But strip away the instruments and vocals surrounding it and he really is goin to town!

I can see it being shouty in some of the alternate versions...

Eh, I'd base my definition of BW's shoutiness off of his singing on the album 'Orange Crate Art'. Parts of 'Sail Away' and 'Wings of a Dove' are somewhat shouty.

'shouty' = "Male Ego"

Ja, but I'm a completist who must have/hear everything. That and '74 California Feelin' are my two holy grails of BW vocals. :D

 Rather surprised they haven't leaked, considering some of the things that have been booted (like Fig Plucker).


Also, Male Ego is a great example, Andrew. Maybe "shouty" isn't the word, but it's when he actually pushes the vocals out rather than sing them.  To be honest, you know what actually qualifies under that criteria? Even though he was in good voice at the time, the way he sang it....You're So Good to Me.

I'm surprised Male Ego was only released as the CD bonus track. Yeah it's fluff, but it's still much better than most of BB85.

I think the fact it sounds like a demo kept it from being on the album proper. It has that "Too Much Sugar" half-assed Landy quality to it.

Fun song though. Really, if anything should've been cut, it should've been "It's Just a Matter of Time".

The reason the music means different things to different people I guess. I love Brians vocal on 'Male Ego' as a counter to Mikes. Works for me.

I've heard a good portion of BW88 been called "shouty," but I still think he held pitch very well on that album, and sounded confident. "Melt Away" is one of his best vocals of the solo period imho and "Let it Shine" is even better...even if his production techniques may have been in the cheezy department sometimes I believed Jeff Lynne coaxed amazing vocals out of him and he would've served the album well. Generally, I think the better the material the better the vocals for Brian...the exception being something like "Grief Never Grows Old" where he sounds terrific and the song is weak and "California Feelin'" 2002 where it's a classic song but a plodding vocal.

I always liked "Male Ego" as a vocal, it's a decent tune but not a classic. It's the best of Brian's material on the album imho, "I'm So Lonely" is an example of a bad shouty vocal.

i feel like "melt away" is waaaay shouty

By the time Lucy Jones was recorded, was his voice already hoarse? Did his voice still have any of the "classic Brian" sound?

I think slurred is more like it. There are a few shouty parts in that one. I swear there is another on BW88 that is shouty that I can't place......

checking itunes;

'Walking The Line' - 'Walk Walk Walk, I keep on walking the line' - more like shouting the line  ;D

Yeah, not a fan of his solo shouting songs.

How about Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight for shouty.

I just wonder what Brian vocal of that era it would best compare to. I think AGD may have said the vocals were most comparable to "Chapel of Love", which wasn't very good, per se, but it was fun. But if he was sounding supposedly "young" on "California Feelin'" a few weeks before, I'm confused. Although I'm sure this was probably right near the middle of the period of losing his voice.

I have to ask though, why did Brian's voice basically go from sounding like one person to sounding like an entirely different person? I mean, Nilsson went from A Little Touch of Schmilsson In The Night to P**** Cats vocally in one year. But he still sounded like the same person, and his vocals thereafter, while a little bit different, sounded like Harry Nilsson.

I do hear the young Brian in the performance of "God Only Knows" from the clip on YouTube that Paul Reiser introduces. Is it possible that this was always going to be Brian's "mature" voice, or do you think if he took better care we'd have ended up with a more Carl-like sound but just a bit shriller?

Lots of discussion here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,9005.msg152382.html#msg152382

Here's a post of mine from that thread -- some of the follow-ups are well worth reading too.

----------

I said this on an earlier thread about vocal quality, and I think Alex hits the point right on the head.


This is absolutely right. Brian has had roughly three voices in his career -- smooth 60s, gruff 70s and nuts 80s to now. And those first two voices had a lot in common. Brian's phrasing, for one. You could listen to BW in the mid-70s to the beginning of the 80s and know it was the same guy.

Example: On Jan. 14, 1981, Brian records Stevie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8G4xFpbijs

(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2733/1981dj1.jpg)

This is not a healthy Brian Wilson. He's in the depths, although not hugely fat yet. But listen to the song. You can hear remnants of the classic voice in there. A tic he would later show live -- clipping notes at the end of phrases -- pops up, but slightly. He has that classic California "cool" sound that defines his vocals with the Beach Boys.

Just two years later (and now under the care of Landy), Brian goes into the studio to record three demos. Black Widow, Little Children and In the Nighttime. You can listen to the 83 version of Little Children here:

http://www.myspace.com/officialbrianwilson/music/albums/brian-wilson-9544591

(http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8812/1983gy8.jpg)

He's healthier. He's recording and touring. But something is off. The voice has changed -- it no longer sounds like the Brian Wilson of the 60s or the 70s or even two years prior. This is a version of the Brian Wilson voice we came to know through the 80s and 90s: Shouty, unhinged, with phrasing that seems off -- something has gone wrong. And it doesn't have to do with tone (which is pretty much the same) or range (which is likewise pretty unaffected).

This is just two years later. Two. Years.

It sounds -- to me -- like someone who doesn't quite know how to sing. During those two years, in some way, something happened to Brian. His voice has never been the same since. I would bet on drug-induced brain damage or a mini-stroke (and people who have mini-strokes don't often recognize that they've had them).

I don't think Brian realized that anything had happened. He didn't appear to struggle with his new voice, or act angry that anything had changed. I think he may have come to realize during his solo album that his voice was less expressive -- he talked a couple of times about how people think he "sabotaged" his performances on the album.

But it took until 1998, with Imagination, for someone to seriously sit down with Brian and deal with the vocals. And I think Joe Thomas deserves tremendous credit for making Brian sound -- well -- human again. It wasn't the double tracking. It wasn't the autotune. It was getting Brian to focus on phrasing and breath control.

This slow re-education has continued. Darian worked closely with Brian on his Smile leads. Melinda (I assume) brought in vocal coaches. And in TLOS and the Gershwin project, I think we finally have a Brian Wilson who has learned to phrase like a professional singer -- again.

He sounds like a professional version of his 80s voice, though. He can summon the BBs sound now and again, but he sounds like a different guy. Which, in many ways, he is.

Brian also had another voice. It seems to have started in 1991, and continued until Imagination. His voice on I Just Wasn't Made For These Times is very odd. I have not heard Brian sound like this before or since.

There's a couple of things about the IJWMFTT vocals. For one, they're under-produced. I'm doubtful as to if they have auto-tune or double tracking at all on the songs. For two, he's singing much softer than he did on OCA or SI or BW88. And the final reason is that his vocals are starting to age. It sounds like a cross between Landy Brian and Imagination Brian.

On IJWMFTT, he's subtly double tracked on "Love and Mercy." And one other, I think, tho I don't remember which one.

Yeah, it's a weirdly pinched voice -- it's on a lot of the Paley tracks. I've chalked that up to Brian apparently starting to smoke again for a few years after Landy bowed out.

Well, there's an entire black era of Brian vocals, from 1973 to 15 Big Ones. What demos he had recorded are either locked in the vaults or lost. So basically we jump from Holland era straight to 15 Big Ones. That's the reason why you don't see a gradual decline. There's just a lack of released documents from the main period of vocal decline. As for how it happened.... Well, 5 packs of cigarettes and cocaine a day for about a year could ruin ANYONE's voice. It's a miracle he could still sing at all.

Did Brian ever take vocal lessons before he first started to sing, back in the early sixties? Did he ever have a vocal coach during the prime of his vocals?

I don't think so. It was all from instinct (and copying records).

I think that's probably what made it so hard for him later. As suggested by others, his huge weight gain (and loss) of the early 80s may have caused permanent physical changes that simply made it harder for him to sing -- to produce the notes. Thus, he would force them, and viola -- you have the shouty voice.

The trick, in recent years, seems simple enough. Brian sings in in the middle of his range, and more softly. That seems to take care of a lot of the other problems.

The first time I know of Brian having vocal coaching was during the 1985 album sessions - Steve Levine made him see one.

Hmm. Do you think that not taking proper singing lessons could've been a factor in his 1969-1974 vocal decline? Singing in falsetto strains the voice enough already, much less not doing proper vocal exercises and such.

Quite possibly, Leon.


Brian indeed was smoking again,up until 1994 (which partially explains his huge weight gain when he quit). As someone once told me, the famous story where Melinda almost hit him her car? He was going to have a smoke.

As for 1973-1975, that's one of the reasons why I'm so desperate to hear "California Feelin'" and "Lucy Jones". The former is apparently the last "classic Brian", and the latter apparently is "mid-period Brian". I will say this, though..if you've heard Brian's part of Johnny Rivers' version of "Help Me Rhonda"...Brian's voice had already changed by then.

BB88 is filled with shouty vocals. hurts the album.  randomly on "let it shine" he doesn't sound as bad tonally.

I believe this is the track you're referring to, for all those wondering. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPToxd7h6hg

And indeed, it seems like Brian's falsetto was closer to the 15 Big Ones era than the Holland era by that part. It seems like a cross between the two, really.

Didn't a recent thread on this board suggest that a vocal coach was at the MIU sessions?

Having re-read what he has to say about the Fairfield sessions, it looks like his 'vocal coaching' was more along the lines of getting a decent air mix than actual vocal coaching as you or I understand it. (he's actually credited on the album as an engineer):

"So I got my mantra and began to record their vocals­ which is why they brought me there: to be another ear and put the vocals on tape the best they could sound... I coached their positioning to the mic until we got a good blend over the control-room monitors."

I'm thinking had he actually coached Brian one-on-one, he'd mention it.

Most definitely. Actually, to me it sounds WORSE. Compare it to the falsetto on, say, "In the still of the night". I seriously wonder if any pitch altering was done...

Also...have no idea why I called you by your last name instead of your first. :lol My apologies bro.

This may be what I refer to as his "Ozzy" voice.  See also "Fantasy Is Reality/Bells Of Madness".  It's a strangely brassy, shrill sort of sound that he'd never really had before. 

I actually don't mind a bit of his shouty voice here and there, but on BW88 it does indeed get tiring after a while, especially on side 2. On "Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight" he sounds awkward and nervous, which is too bad because I think it's a very good song.

There's Brian's duet with Jan Berry on "Don't You Just Know It" from 1973.  Don't know if this is from early, mid, or late 1973, but it's available on the Jan & Dean Fun City CD, as well as iTunes, Amazon, and various other places on the web.  Brian doesn't sound hoarse yet, but his vocal sounds somewhat spoken and shouty and he sounds absolutely nothing like he did a few years earlier.  To me, it almost has a "confused" sound to it, as in "why am I singing this?"  

Others on this board may be able to offer more insight into this recording, as I only heard it for the first time a few months ago.  Had I heard this vocal from BW back in 1973, I would have been quite surprised and described it as "disturbing", but his singing voice here is very closely related to his spoken parts on Mt. Vernon and Fairway on Holland, which, back then, I also considered "disturbing" as well as close to unlistenable.  I think it's fair to characterize the singing on Don't You Just Know It and the spoken parts on Mount Vernon and Fairway as sounding like that of a person suffering from some form of mental illness.

Brian's vocal was reportedly recorded back in 1970.

Yeah, I'd heard that too.  Completely caught me by surprise, as he sounded (to my ears anyway) like mid period Brian minus the rasp. Then again, he sounds like 15 BO Brian on "He Came Down" off of So Tough, but more like Sunflower-era Brian on his small part on "Funky Pretty"...and somewhere in between on Marcella.


Yea...the 1974 sessions really need to be circulated or something....driving me nuts :lol

I never knew Brian was on He Come Down...

Another possible explanation for the "shoutyness" is that it was a way to hit notes.  Think about how narrow Dennis's range had gotten by the end of his life...he can't have had more than an octave.  I think Brian subjected his voice to similar abuse (minus the famous punch, I know), but insisted on hitting a wider range, which meant just pushing and pushing until a note came out...hence the shoutiness.  Although I also hear the change in phrasing someone mentioned.  I think Oh Lord is the best example of how soulful and really thoughtful and also spontaneous Brian's phrasing could be even when his voice was at its worst tonally, and by 85 thats all gone. 

Yup. Right after the "Yes I believe it" part, you'll hear a real low "EEEEeeee" part that for YEARS I thought was Dennis.

To me he sounds absolutely fine on the Jan Berry song, pretty much exactly as he did on Sunflower, which would fit AGDs theory that it was recorded in 70. Just sounds like he doesn't really know the words or something.

I posted about this a long time ago, but I can recall hearing two different versions of the Jan Berry duet, the finished version (which I think is cool) and a version with a less polished vocal from Brian (or perhaps it was just a single track, I really don't remember...my impression was it was a different take).  Point being, on the less polished version, it was really obvious Brian was having trouble crossing over into falsetto and hitting some of the high notes.  A lot of stabs at certain notes and squirrelly vocal transitions.  It sounded like he was really struggling, or at the very least had a bad cold or something. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi9voOrzzB0

Actually, I wasn't surprised when AGD said it was recorded in 1970. Brian's just singing it in a different way than usual. The tone of his voice sounds just like Sunflower era.

Yes. By that era, Brian began to struggle with pushing into the falsetto range... I sometimes wonder if that was why he didn't sing lead very often. Background harmonies are relatively easy. Lead puts a lot more strain on the voice.

Also, Billy, no worries! Lots of people call me by my last name.  :hat

Brian's singing on this song is virtually unlistenable to me.  It was a silly song when first released in 1958, but by the early 70's it would have been considered, by the standards of the day, totally dumbass.  Perhaps Brian felt the same way and sang it as a favor for his buddy, Jan Berry, but I'm unconvinced that Brain was in a positive frame of mind when he recorded this.  Maybe I'm reading way too much into this, but after listening to a playback of this song, I can picture Brain wondering, "What was I thinking, maybe I am insane," before he later admonished Van Dyke Parks to convince him otherwise.  (And the date he did that is very much in question.)

Yes, some of the vocal intonations are reminiscent of Brian's voice during the Sunflower era, especially on background vocals, but can anyone seriously claim to have heard a BW lead vocal anywhere near this bad during that period?

Although Jan & Dean sites say this recording is from 1973, I'm not doubting that it could have been recorded in 1970.  AGD - can you provide any more info as to the source indicating that this was recorded in 1970?

To clear up the mystery of how Brian sounded when he spoke between 73-75; listening to his vocal performances on Mt.Vernon and Fairway and Child of Winter, I can only assume he had the voice of The Grinch Who Stole Christmas.  ::)

Nah, he was using vibrato on those two tracks. His REAL speaking voice would be the intro to "California".

Brad Elliott's discography.. Hence 'reportedly'.

I gotta say, just based on my impression of where Brian's voice was at on that rough take, I'd expect it to be closer to '73 than '70.  If you charted a line of the decline of Brian's voice, that's just about where I'd imagine him to be around '72-'73 (with Dec. '74 now established as the point where Brian's old voice finally crossed the line into the new one).

Pretty sure BW's vox are from 70-71, and Jan finally added his a couple years later, and to me they sound fine. I'm sure Bri didn't really give too much of a crap about this tune, but he seemed to like Jan, and if Jan needed some help on one of his new songs BW was happy to help. It may not be Brian's greatest vocal performance, but for some goofy cover of a goofy tune it seems good. I do think you're reading too much into it if you think you can hear the mental breakdown (or whatever) thru his singing on this.
Average song=Average singing

I don't know why but whenver anyone brings up Brian's voice on the Carl and the Passions....no matter how many times I listen to it, I cannot pick out his voice on ANY song. I doubt he's audible.

He is VERY audible on the 2 or 3 songs he's on, but you have to know what to listen for. Once you realize which parts are his, it's very obvious.

Another example...he's doing the "what's in her head"* line on the tag of Marcella.



*= I think that's the lyric.

Brian's vocals are all over Marcella. The "Doobie doobie do" part is also him. I also have a suspicion that's him behind Al on the first two "One arm over my shoulder".

He's doing a growling harmony behind Carl's double tracked lead on "Mess of Help".

He's singing mid range on He Came Down. Blondie and Carl's screams are drowning him out. 

Yeah, that's a great analogy. I always link Ozzy and Brian when it comes to chemical damage.

To me, the chorus of "We wish you a merry Christmas" (from the Arista album)finds him shouting, maybe to try to hit some notes (can't believe how they used that song on the Epk, since he fails big time on a "WISH")

Maybe we should start a "Brian slurry's vocals" ie, the "ever afterrrrrrr" on "Fairy tale" (surely a favorite of AGD!)

And the flowers DIIIIIIEEEEEEDDDDD. :lol God, that was hideous.


No, that was Blondie behind Carl.

As for Marcella...I think the high part was Bruce,although it could've  been Brian, too. My understanding is that Brian's part doesn't kick in until about 2:58.  Listen on headphones...it'll be on the left channel. The doobie doobie part is Al.

My "Mess of Help" comment was based solely on the twofer booklet info, which I know can't be taken as gospel.

My ears tell me that's Brian's doobies on Marcella, but I'm perfectly willing to admit I could be wrong.

Huh huh huh huh you said "doobie".

:lol

doobie do or not doobie?

wasnt a alternate lyric to a smile song?
the telephone lyrics to cabinessence?

Now there's an understatement.

For me, I can always hear him in the opening vocal blend. You know, the "Hey-a Marceelllaaa" and in the backing vocal harmonies behind Carl's verses.

We had a huge discussion over who was doing the singing in "Mess of Help" on the vocal thread.  The conclusion was there are three vocal tracks, the most prominent two of which are Carl.  The third one could possibly be Brian or Blondie, but it's so far back it's impossible to tell, and it's most likely Carl as well.

I think it is Brian on the Doobie Do part myself. He sings high harmony of "Mess Of Help" but is mixed a bit low. "Don't You Just Know It" I always thought he was trying to sing kind of like he did on "Bakers Man". I did ask Brian and Jan both about the track but they only remembered that they had done it. You can hear Brian's voice sounding very good in 1971 on Til I Die, Awake, and Won't You Tell Me. His vocals on the Spring LP are also quite good.

Going on to 1972-73 there is less around but what you can make out on So Tough and Holland is fine. We have all debated on the Daddy Dear Suzy home recording from 1972 but to me it is Brian and he sounds fine. From 1973 we also have the Fairy Tale performance at home. It's low volume and quality but again he sounds fine and his speaking voice isn't at all raspy.

From 1974 we have Battle Hymn, Child Of Winter, and Rollin Up To Heaven. On all he still sounds clear to me. California Feelin and Lucy Jones are the missing link.

I asked Jimmi Sieter about Brian's voice when he worked with him on the Why Do Fools Fall In Love single in 1975. From what I hear he sounds a bit gruff but Jimmi said he didn't feel Brian was overtly hoarse or off key. Help Me Rhonda sounds a bit like MIU which isn't bad but lacks the purity heard on Rollin Up To Heaven. Then we have Back Home 1975 which is very hoarse and from there it was pretty bad through 1998 except for the MIU stuff both Beach Boys and Spring and some of the Paley demos (especially the almost clear Brian on GIOMH).. Since 1999 he sounds professional most of the time (some of the post 94 shows and GIOMH excepted) but he's not a particularly great singer anymore. Not bad but not great.

'Goin' Home'

One of the only songs I don't really like on TLOS - because of the shouty vocals....

I've always heard a lot of similarity between Ozzys current voice and Brians current voice (or certainly his 80s/90s voice), very similar timbre and tone and times - sadly Ozzys voice is pretty much defined by autotune these days. I'm a massive 70s Sabbath fan and Ozzys vocals on those first 8 albums are fantastic. As another voice connection I always thought Ozzys and Roy Woods voice were very similar...

I thought we only had the 1971 version of Rollin' Up to Heaven?

You know, the more I listen to it, the more I begin to think that Brian's part in Rollin Up To Heaven isn't really all that good. Yes, he still has a very high pitched/falsetto voice. But, it's rather...."squeaky". I'm not sure how to describe it. It's like Brian has lost his control over the pitch of his voice. He can still sing quite high, but it's now nasally and "mouse like".

Nope it's fall 1974 the bootleg was misdated. I can't agree that he sounds anything but good there. He wasn't 20 anymore but if he kept this voice for another 20-25 years I don't think we would be having this discussion.

Hmm. Does that mean there ever WAS a '71 Rollin' Up to Heaven/Ding Dang?

I never would've guessed that this was '74, just judging from how similar Brian sounds to the Sunflower era. A frustrating problem is that Brian doesn't sing properly on the track. He just does background harmonies and that "Langa langa langa" part. If he only chose to sing something, it would be a lot easier to judge his vocals.

No no 1971 version. Ding Dang was cut at the end of 1973 and Rollin Up in the fall of 1974. It is a little hard to say but he does keep saying the words Hard Time. He sounds like his old self to me.

I forgot about that "langa langa langa" bit. I was going by the "hard time" phrase that he repeats. To me it sounds a little flat at times.

You know, for as much as the California Dreaming demo and Lucy Jones get talked about, it's interesting to note that they have not circulated in any way, shape or form. Hmmm....

I know, right? I've always found that odd, considering what did circulate. I used "Fig Plucker" as an example earlier, which is freakin' hilarious now considering your sig! Seriously though, those are the 2 tracks I've been dying to hear for years, regardless of quality.

Ohhh....the HIGH part. Yeah, that sounds like Brian. I'm currently messing around with some tracks in audition, and I can definitely hear him doing one of the "she don't know it" parts, still sounding like his Sunflower/Surf's Up. I'm actually working on a project...doing a compilation track of all of Brian's non-lead parts on So Tough and Holland, isolated. For someone who was allegedly inactive during that time, he sure did a lot more work than many people think...one odd thing I'm discovering is how all of his vocals from that period are "dry" in comparison to the others!

That sounds cool Billy. Let me know when you complete. Use the Spring LP too he has some great vocals. The end of Forever is my favorite on there.

Especially Teardrops On My Bed.  One would think that the powers that be would see to it that a recording like that would never be heard. I would bet money that somebody got in trouble when it leaked. Not that I'm not greatful it has been circulated.  :p

Teardrops on my bed? Are you referring to "Drip Drop"?

Yes. It's a cover of a song, right? I'm not familiar with it. Is the correct name "Drip Drop"? The version I know of(not that I was looking into it or anything...) was titled Teardrops On My Bed.

Let's go mo'fos? Oh yeah, that's drip drop. originally done by Dion...at least was titled as such on the copy I came across ^_^

First off...this doesn't violate board terms...this is only a clip...


Brian on He Came Down. For the LONGEST time I thought this was Dennis. However, it's not, unless Dennis learned how to be in two places at once. Oddly, Brian sounds EXACTLY like he did in 1976, which makes one wonder.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yhpa04


Ok, Brian on Marcella. This was harder to isolate....Mike's vocals are still on there, but Brian's part is now in the middle ("what's in her head"), noticeably lower than what we are used to, but higher pitched than the above link. As a bonus, the doobie doobie part is isolated, but with a LOT of hiss and noise...I stand corrected...it's Brian.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9j2cv3

I love his shouting the word: 'O-HI-HI-O!' on 15BO ('Back Home').

How did you isolate those vocal parts Billy?

Trial & error, really. One rule of thumb, if you listen on head phones, he'll be on the left side. So, I removed the right channel, and cut out some other frequencies.



You need a mess of help...only Blondie, Carl, and Brian's vocals remain! Brian was ALL over this track...
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ahv5a4

Oh yes. With only the tracks and my ears I can hear him on a lot more than people credit him for. All of Sunflower and all of Surf's Up save for Student Demonstration Time, which I'm not sure of. He's also on the majority of Carl and the Passions, too. Can't hear him on the Blondie and Ricky tracks, but I can on everything else besides maybe Make it Good, which doesn't feature harmonies much at all. Maybe not on All This is That too, but I'm not sure. I think I can hear him...

I don't hear him on "Lookin' At Tomorrow"  ::)  Not sure about "Tree" either, at least vocally.

He's on the tag to 'Tree' aint he?

Probs my fave tag ever :)

I always thought it was Brian singing the high yet mournful "Do do dooo do" on the tag of ADITLOAT.

I can hear him on the vocal blend in the tag to "Tree". And in the very sparse vocal harmonies on "Lookin' At Tomorrow too. Might not be him on the last one, though.

"Tomorrow" is a solo ACJ track.

According to the engineer, Brian isn't present on:

Long Promised Road
Student Demonstration Time
Lookin' At Tomorrow

So far, those are the only cuts I don't hear Brian on. He's on most of Holland also.

Really? For Holland I count Steamboat, California (both tiny bits), Funky Pretty... and thats it.

Brian's not on either of the 'Flame' tracks, nor "Make It Good" (no other BB on that at all aside from Dennis) or "All This Is That" - so that's half the album - and I'm not at all convinced about "Cuddle Up" either.

Desper's a great source but in The Lost BB, David Marks claims Brian did the ba-ba-bas on "Long Promised Road," on the floor no less.

People always make the point about Brian not being on much of CATP but due to the fragmented way it was put together there's possibly only one or two tracks that feature the ENTIRE lineup performing. The only constant throughout the record is Carl. Mike and Al have nothing to do with the Dennis or Flame songs. Dennis is not on the Flame stuff or as far as I can gather on "All this is that". It's almost like a bunch of solo artists.

If you're thinking of the prominent vocal "lay me down, my branches to the ground" etc. that's Al.

Yup.

Also, I meant "much" of Holland, not "most". He's on Sail On Salor Steamboat, California, Funky Pretty, and supposedly has a brief cameo on Leaving This Town, although I cannot hear him

Brian is singing on Long Promised Road. Desper told me himself and its in his book. He does the Down Down Down Down. He also does sing on Tree doing some of the do do do's at the end. Again Desper is my source.

Dude! Thank you VERY much for those clips! When people were talking about the "what's in her head" part, I was very confused. I couldn't remember that lyric anywhere in the song. Long story short, I was mistaking the "what's in her head" lyric as "marcella baaaaaaaaaabe".  ;D

For the longest time I thought it was "voice in her head". :D

Comment on "He Came Down"? Wasn't that mindblowing?  How did he sound like that then and not again until a few years later?! Weird... :lol

Fascinating stuff, did never think that.

The He Came Down one was weird. If I didn't know better, I'd say that it was a 15BO outtake.

Hmm. Who did the vocal harmonies on Make it Good, then? Around 1:55 in the track, I can hear some type of backing vocalists. Unless someone's playing some instrument that sounds suspiciously like singing. I always thought he did some backing vocals on All This is That, too. Must've been Carl or something.

Yeah, I know. The last few seconds of the "Eeee" part sound EXACTLY like 15 Big Ones. Maybe 1976 Brian time traveled into the past just to record that one bit to f*** with the fan's heads?

Maybe he just had a cold or something? For a long time I thought it was Dennis singing Hawaii. It was actually Mike with a heavy cold.

Same here. Couldn't believe it was Mike.

BTW: I am certain that people like Brian, with their habits, can have 'multiple voices' on any given day. In the morning: rough from last night's alcohol and smoking. After eating and drinking somewhat: younger, but still nasal. Perhaps the most youngish: early evening, after dinner, well-lubricated but not inebriated. During the evening: decrease in articulation, more of a slur.

Curtis, those vocals are by Dennis, singing at the top of his range.

As for BW's part on HCD...that makes no sense to me.  Maybe did a whole bunch of white or something...dunno.


I don't hear Brian on Cuddle Up at *all*. Is Toni Tenille on there though?

Damn. He must've been doing falsetto or something. Sounds exactly like his brothers! Wonder why he didn't do it too often...

He really couldn't do it too often. Plus, once his demons really took hold, any remaining smoothness in his voice disappeared. Really, his notes on this cut and "Slip On Through" were about as high as he got.


Vocally speaking.

When DID Dennis lose his voice? I've heard it was due to a throat punch or something.

That killed it, yeah, but it had already declined  before that. Compare "Cuddle Up" to "Love Surrounds Me", for example.

Carl is definitely on "Cuddle Up", as is Toni.

I KNEW it...couldn't have been anyone else, unless someone punched Bruce in the ballsack. :D


Any theories on why Brian sounded like he did on He Came Down, though?

I brought this same thing up on the ultimate vocal thread (Brian's 1976 voice appearing on "He Come Down").  The consensus was...nothing.  Nobody could explain it.  A lot of people didn't believe it was Brian at all.  So it's still a mystery, as they say.

I think the different voices for different parts of the day is as good an explanation of anybody.

Crazy, ain't it? Just so wild that he sounds so DIFFERENT, but makes me wonder how much pitch altering was used on vocals where he was sounded higher pitched.

Then again...I recently found a demo of It'S Over Now (NOT the one commonly booted with the rest of the Love You Demos and That Special feeling) where he was singing in the same way as he did in the early 70s, only with rasp. Freaky stuff.

The first time I listened to the album I knew it was Brian on both tracks-never thought it was anyone else. The tree goes from reilly nicely into Brian-and he's the singular voice behind the verses on LPR. Thanks Marilyn.

His book doesn't mention Brian doing anything on "LPR", just a reference to Carl doing something he (Brian) used to do.

David Marks book says Brian did the "ba-ba-bas" on the floor.

I have a hard time hearing Brian on "Marcella" and "He Come Down". I tried. I played it over and over, but I just don't.....................maybe I'm gettin' old.

Tell me I'm not getting old, Van Dyke!

I've listened to those extracts a lot, too. While I can hear Brian on "Mess of Help," I can't really hear him on the other two.  The "what's in her head" part on "He Come Down" doesn't sound to me like early '70s or late '70s Brian. If anything, it sounds slightly like Dennis to me. The "doo bee doo" parts do sound Brianish, though.

Uhhh...that would be on "Marcella", and Dennis never sang in that range in the harmonies. I have confirmation that the low part in "He Come Down" is Brian, also.

Sorry about that. I did mean "Marcella." And I never thought it actually was Dennis - just that it sounded a little bit like him. It just doesn't sound like Brian to me. What's the source for the "He Come Down" low part? That one is less surprising to me because it's somewhat similar to his low vocals on the Spring album.

Mikie you're not getting old, but you would look better in a Van Dyke, if she'd let you.

Bgas, whosat in your avatar?  Your parents?

dennis and Jodi

For those doubting it's Brian on "Marcella", here's part of "Funky Pretty", him singing "Funky Pretty Gone" sounding exactly the same.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/3gr53m

I had a clip like this about a year ago, but lost it during a computer crash. I didn't think I'd hear it again. Thanks!  ;D

About "Don't You Just Know It":


Actually, it probably was recorded in 1972.

In his article, "The Road Back From Dead Man's Curve," in the Sept. 12, 1974, issue of Rolling Stone, Paul Morantz wrote:

"Jan calls himself 'One Jan One' to show that he is singing alone now. Ode Records has just released Tinsel Town – two years after it was recorded. Jan recorded another single about the same time – a remake of an old hit, Don’t You Just Know It, with Brian Wilson."  [emphasis mine]

The Pixies Present SMiLE

The Jesus Lizard Presents Pet Sounds

Jan Berry started recording "Don't You Just Know It" in early 1966 before his accident. The '66 instrumental sessions with the Wrecking Crew are in the vaults.

So it's fitting — in the wake of Carnival of Sound — that Jan finished "Don't You Just Know It" with Brian Wilson in the early '70s. Jan and Brian were hanging out and doing drugs together during that era.

Mr. Castillo -

Help me out here  ...  OK, so it's BW, but why does this sound totally like Mike?  I honestly can hear why it could be BW, but if so, he's doin' a big time ML imitation.

That's just how he sounded by then. Check out his vocals on the Spring album...he sounds EXACTLY the same. Dunno why...maybe all the coke made him sound more nasal ???

It's extremely possible.  Coke does a number on your nasal passages, or so I am told.  I can tell you from first hand experiences messing with your nose/sinuses will mess with your voice.

Wow! That long ago? So, if Jan hadn't been in the accident, it would have been a Jan & Dean track. Presumably, Brian's singing the parts Dean originally would have handled?


Mark, is there any way you can be more precise as to when in the early '70s? Since it's the quality of Brian's vocal that we're discussing here, an approximate date for that vocal session would be very helpful.

Good point.  His voice here also sounds a lot like his speaking voice as I recall hearing it when he was on the radio in LA promoting the Spring album.

The point was so good it had to be posted twice.

Yeah, and while you were writing I tried to delete the second post, but couldn't figure out how to!  I ended up changing the second duplicate post to a "-".

Happened when I was pressing the browser back button.  Saw the message again and it appeared I hadn't posted it yet, so I hit 'post' again.

Is it possible to delete posts?

It's happened to me in the past too - I've tried to post something, the connection 'timed out' and when I retried it duplicated the post.

Only moderators can remove posts as far as I know. Unless there's a "Delete" button shown at your own posts.

I deleted it.

That will be $3.50.

^_^

Thanks so much for saving me the intense embarrassment of having a post in the archives that was initially a duplicate, but then changed to a simple hyphen.  Please advise me where to send the money.  Or, alternatively, I'll be happy to enjoy a Jack Daniel's on the rocks in your honor.

:lol