The Smiley Smile Message Board

Yes , rather than be sued I do find it rather strange that Mr Leaf gets no mention in the Liner Notes  ::)
What can I read into that ????

I would have been truly astonished if there had been. Other long-time "thankees" are also absent, in some cases since TLOS. You don't need to be Nostradamus Holmes to work out what's happened.  ::)

Mr. Leaf's not in the liner notes?

The fanbase collectively lifts its leg and farts. :)

I thought Leaf has been in and out with Brian recently.

Why would Leaf be sued?

(I haven't really been keeping up with recent goings-on in Brian's world.)

Yes what has the Mike Love bashing, Brian butt licking, original Brianista done to piss off the B.W. camp so much? Do tell.

He's hardly the original Brianista or the originator of Love-bashing...

Leaf is convenient guy for some folks to gripe about who don't like the lionization of Brian at the expense of the rest of the band (despite the fact, as noted, that the process had been going on for more than a decade before he wrote a word on the subject). I don't think he was sued, I just think there was some personal drama at some point. He was, however, invited to the BWRG launch party in LA (as noted by Carlin), so I doubt it was a permanent exclusion.

Excellent reasoning - however your second sentence is, currently, spurious.

i'd say the years 1966-1967 planted the seeds.

So he wasn't at the listening party?

Or rather, are we not to extrapolate anything from his presence at said event?

I said "spurious", not "inaccurate".  ;)

He was there - Peter saw him, friends of mine spoke to him - but unless something has changed in the last few hours, he's still out of the loop. Anyway, in the wider view, less significant than symptomatic.

We talkin' Big Daddy or Davy?

 :(

So who did originate the Brianista tradition then? I'm guessing it was an after-the-fact creation of myth rather than something concurrent to his peak in the mid 1960s?

What's wrong, friend?

The post-Wild Honey Paul Williams and David Anderle articles (originally from Crawdaddy?) that can be found in "Look! Listen! Vibrate! Smile!" are pretty doggone Brianistaic. And how's "Brianistaic" for a word!

Since you asked, Earl Leaf died in 1980, aged 75. So, unlikely to be the Leaf under discussion.

Also in William's book... and I have to say, divorced from the contemporary context, they make for most frustrating reading.

So Leaf's out of the circle.

The older daughters are not mentioned by name. Are they out of the circle too?

Wouldn't their publicist Derek Taylor get some credit for early promotion of the Brianista tradition?

Murry.

I think Derek Taylor might have been the first to use "genius" in print. And all of the writers, etc., around Brian during the Smile sessions played a big role in subsequent years. I mean, the myth of "Smile" became the myth of Brian Wilson. That then fed appetites for the boots, which led to Don Was doing the '95 doc, which codified the tale for a new generation.

And it is a story, a myth, that we like to hear and we like to tell. If Derek Taylor hadn't done it, if David Leaf hadn't done it, if Don Was hadn't done it, other people would have. The creative person who comes too close the flame -- I mean, there are quite a few guys from that era similarly lauded. Syd, for one. Peter Green for another. It's a story the public loves to hear. It doesn't matter how the actual details fit.

Pretty sure that's so, but the term was obviously being applied to Brian by early March 1965 for Murry to state (albeit sarcastically) "Brian, I'm a genius too".

Absolutely. And not only did the basic narrative work with the mythical telling, but we had this wonderful, evocative story of the lost gem: Smile. Brianistaism had to come about, because we had a collection of people who believed in what was happening, only to see it put aside and themselves ousted from the scene. (Naturally, they chose good guys and bad guys for their stories ... and yes, I avoided the term H&V there.)

The whole thing lends itself to myth. It doesn't take long to give Brian super-powers. "He could coax emotion out of professional string players" can pretty easily turn into "he could play every instrument in the orchestra better than the pros" to "I've seen Brian leap over tall buildings!"

So what happened between Leaf and Team Brian?

I understand if you can't go into details, but even in a broad sense, what could have gone down between them, after all these years?

He turned a new leaf

 :drumroll

Zing! :lol

weird how there's always a 'falling out' with Brian's friends/collaborators (not in the band).
Does Melinda have anything to do with it?


I always thought Leaf thought he was the luckiest dork ever.

*giggle*

Friendly game goes sour after Brian dunks on Leaf.

Between Brian & David, nothing - they're still friends.

I have zero problem with Brian being referred to as a genius. It's just that too often it seems to be said at the expense of the other band members. Leaf certainly bought into that concept hook, line and sinker.

Wasn't there an article in the 60's describing Brian as "the puppetmaster" and the BB's his "puppets"? Didn't the writer bluntly ask Carl that very question. Poor guy! How do you begin to answer such a question? Deny it and you run the risk of sounding like Mike, dodge it and you are effectively saying it's true.

What did Leaf make of the 20/20 to Holland period, which were all band intergrated efforts and the strongest run of albums of the bands career?



I think we can guess what Andrew would like to say but can't.

Well, in the sixties it wasn't that far from being true, in terms of studio output.

I would have said, Brian definitely dominates in the studio, but we have input too--it's not like he's Mozart giving out sheet music to us. We are a real band.


I don't think that sounds too Mike-like.

Well, I'll go out on a limb here with my opinion on David Leaf.   Someone said to him, "Make like a tree and leaf!"

Sorry.

Who's the person in the inner circle here and a common thread in the on-going departures of key personnel near Brian?


Joe Thomas
Andy Paley
The Tasty Brothers
David Leaf (?)

Not to mention Irving Azoff....