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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Smilin Ed H on September 03, 2010, 02:22:33 AM



Title: Guardian review
Post by: Smilin Ed H on September 03, 2010, 02:22:33 AM
Brian Wilson: Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin(EMI)
1 star

Michael Hann
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 2 September 2010 21.30 BST Article history


Well, one can see why it happened. After all, Rod Stewart has had enormous success with his Great American Songbook albums of covers of pre-rock classics. And Brian Wilson, with his symphonic leanings and a melodic sense derived as much from Broadway as Chuck Berry, is arguably the rock writer with the closest ties to George Gershwin. But, goodness, what a horrible album this is. In its best moments Gershwin's songs are reconfigured into pastiches of past Wilson classics – They Can't Take That Away from Me is squeezed into the shape of California Girls, Someone to Watch Over Me follows the path of You Still Believe in Me. At its worst – an ersatz doo-wop I've Got a Crush On You, a bar-band I Got Rhythm – it's cringe-inducing. The rest passes by like elevator music from a midmarket hotel chain. Gershwin and Wilson are among the 20th century's greatest writers of popular music; no one wishing to learn more about either should start here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/sep/02/brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-cd-review


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 03, 2010, 02:34:49 AM
British snobbery at its worst. The writer smokes a pipe, loves his Chihuahua, and is a bachelor.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: absinthe_boy on September 03, 2010, 03:57:50 AM
That is a baaaad review.

The thing is, I can actually see criticism of 'I Got Rhythm' being valid....but this review was clearly written by somebody with a pre-determined agenda to trash the album.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: buddhahat on September 03, 2010, 04:14:00 AM
Brian Wilson: Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin(EMI)
1 star

Michael Hann
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 2 September 2010 21.30 BST Article history


Well, one can see why it happened. After all, Rod Stewart has had enormous success with his Great American Songbook albums of covers of pre-rock classics. And Brian Wilson, with his symphonic leanings and a melodic sense derived as much from Broadway as Chuck Berry, is arguably the rock writer with the closest ties to George Gershwin. But, goodness, what a horrible album this is. In its best moments Gershwin's songs are reconfigured into pastiches of past Wilson classics – They Can't Take That Away from Me is squeezed into the shape of California Girls, Someone to Watch Over Me follows the path of You Still Believe in Me. At its worst – an ersatz doo-wop I've Got a Crush On You, a bar-band I Got Rhythm – it's cringe-inducing. The rest passes by like elevator music from a midmarket hotel chain. Gershwin and Wilson are among the 20th century's greatest writers of popular music; no one wishing to learn more about either should start here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/sep/02/brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-cd-review

Ouch! The Guardian were pretty unkind to TLOS too, but this is far worse. It will be interesting to see how it fairs with other UK reviews. I'm not aware of any others besides Mojo which was also pretty bad.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Shift on September 03, 2010, 04:39:28 AM
British snobbery at its worst. The writer smokes a pipe, loves his Chihuahua, and is a bachelor.

Steady on old chap... surely you mean springer spaniel?

Actually I'm struggling to get my head around BWRG. I can appreciate that some Gershwin lovers might not take to BW's treatment of some of the tunes.

While I love BW's voice, and some of the production on the album, it's just not a style of music I can fully take to. In fact much of it is the kind of music my folks listened to, and which I turned to Brian and the Boys to escape.

Brian's suddenly producing music for my parents and it doesn't sit right.

Appreciate he's more relaxed than ever, that he's delivered his best vocal performances for years, and that this is a fine addition to his repertoire but it just ain't my bag.

I've listened to it over and over and over (and will listen again), and found much of it very catchy and praiseworthy... but Heroes and Villains/Surf's Up/Rio Grande etc it ain't, and that's the kind of music I keep hoping to hear from BW.

Call me a narrow-minded, stick in the mud who longs for yesteryear... then ask yourself whether you'd rather hear another S'Wonderful or another Wonderful.

I see this as Brian's treat to himself, a self-indulgence, a break, a rehearsal for things to come. I hope he hasn't decided on soft jazz as a new career direction.

I'll probably think differently by tomorrow...


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: carl r on September 03, 2010, 04:54:33 AM
This record is certainly dividing opinion. I know what Wee Helper means. From what I've heard,  BWRG isn't my usual thing. I always have to ask whether it's as a 'fanboy' that i like Brian's records. Would I feel the same if it were someone else making them? I usually can answer that there is at least a third which I am sure I would like regardless.

Michael Hann is the film and music editor, so a big cheese, I guess, in Guardian-land. If any newspaper's opinion matters, I guess that the Guardian's does. I suppose.

Maybe we all just like elevator music. Could 'Friends' be elevator music? I thought a lot of hotels these days play Portishead light imitation-stuff these days, in lobbies and lifts? Sort of chill-out breakbeat? So is it 1970s elevator music? is that better?


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: GoogaMooga on September 03, 2010, 04:58:25 AM
Many people like this album, it's currently no.1 on amazon.com's sales chart for CD's.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 03, 2010, 05:03:30 AM
Gary Usher's 'Add Some Music' on Poptones is a superb Muzak album. It's on Poptones, out of print I believe. But I love it to death. It just has that tiny touch of BWs finest melodies to set it apart... guilty pleasure, but a great pleasure nonetheless.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: GoogaMooga on September 03, 2010, 05:05:40 AM
Gary Usher's 'Add Some Music' on Poptones is a superb Muzak album. It's on Poptones, out of print I believe. But I love it to death. It just has that tiny touch of BWs finest melodies to set it apart... guilty pleasure, but a great pleasure nonetheless.

I agree, lovely album! Poptones did a nice series including Curt Boettcher and Sandy Salisbury.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Mike's Beard on September 03, 2010, 05:25:27 AM
Yeah this guy probably enjoys a nice Michael Buble album after a hard days work and is anxiously awaiting the next Sting release.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 03, 2010, 05:41:34 AM
Yeah this guy probably enjoys a nice Michael Buble album after a hard days work and is anxiously awaiting the next Sting release.

...and in his youth he was a huge prog-rock fan, esp. Wishbone Ash.

We have a case. Shall we shoot him?


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Shift on September 03, 2010, 05:44:38 AM
Yeah this guy probably enjoys a nice Michael Buble album after a hard days work and is anxiously awaiting the next Sting release.

...and in his youth he was a huge prog-rock fan, esp. Wishbone Ash.

We have a case. Shall we shoot him?

I'd like to hear The Ash's opinion of BWRG. In fact, I wonder (in the absence of a BW tour of the material) whether Wishbone Ash could present it live on stage, as a concept piece?


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Mike's Beard on September 03, 2010, 05:57:37 AM
Yeah this guy probably enjoys a nice Michael Buble album after a hard days work and is anxiously awaiting the next Sting release.

...and in his youth he was a huge prog-rock fan, esp. Wishbone Ash.

We have a case. Shall we shoot him?

That might seem a tad extreme to outsiders. Shall we settle for giving him a good hard kick in the balls?


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Nicko on September 03, 2010, 06:03:47 AM
Just because this was a bad review doesn't make it any less worthwhile than the good reviews imo.

As for the album, unfortunately I think much, much better versions of most songs exist elsewhere that I would prefer to listen to. Don't get me wrong, Brian certainly sounds a million times better than he did on something like GIOMH but at this time in his career he can't come close to competing with some of the vocalists who have tackled these songs in the past.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Smilin Ed H on September 03, 2010, 10:18:59 AM
Imagine how bad the Disney reviews will be - especially if he doesn't stick to the genuinely good stuff...  Get out now, Brian...


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Wirestone on September 03, 2010, 10:44:22 AM
Y'know, the album stands on its own.

It's a heartfelt, deeply considered work. It is not to everyone's taste. As I've posted many a place, there are certain aspects of this record -- cover versions, strings, crooning -- that will make many people cringe, fans and non-fans alike.

And that's okay. I've struggled with the album myself -- not its quality, which is really about the best Brian has ever done as a solo artist, but more with the fact that I know these songs well. Very well. And that's not quite as exciting as a new album of BW-written (or lightly frosted) tunes. He also excises all the lead-in verses from the songs (there's a great verse to "Someone to Watch Over Me," for example). But these criticisms are very personal -- they wouldn't make the album any better or worse for the general public.

Brian is not a fashionable guy. He is (still) a unique musician, with great depths of talent. And he's made a record that -- for once -- I can believe without reservation that he cares about and loves. For me, that's enough.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Fun Is In on September 03, 2010, 10:59:50 AM
Wow, well-said Wirestone.

It really does sound like he put the effort in on this one.
It has really caught my ear, enough so that I can play it thru on repeat and go to sleep and wake again with the songs in my head.   Certainly could be signs of old fart-dom, but I'm enjoying the heck out of BWRG.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: PongHit on September 03, 2010, 11:16:01 AM
British snobbery

Isn't that a redundant phrase?


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 04, 2010, 02:12:25 AM
Y'know, the album stands on its own.

It's a heartfelt, deeply considered work. It is not to everyone's taste. As I've posted many a place, there are certain aspects of this record -- cover versions, strings, crooning -- that will make many people cringe, fans and non-fans alike.

And that's okay. I've struggled with the album myself -- not its quality, which is really about the best Brian has ever done as a solo artist, but more with the fact that I know these songs well. Very well. And that's not quite as exciting as a new album of BW-written (or lightly frosted) tunes. He also excises all the lead-in verses from the songs (there's a great verse to "Someone to Watch Over Me," for example). But these criticisms are very personal -- they wouldn't make the album any better or worse for the general public.

Brian is not a fashionable guy. He is (still) a unique musician, with great depths of talent. And he's made a record that -- for once -- I can believe without reservation that he cares about and loves. For me, that's enough.

Lovely call. Cheers for that!


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Paulos on September 04, 2010, 05:10:40 AM
No one should take the Guardian review too seriously, the pretentiousness of the Guardian is incredible.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 04, 2010, 05:25:54 AM
No one should take the Guardian review too seriously, the pretentiousness of the Guardian is incredible.

...also known as The Grauniad.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Shift on September 04, 2010, 05:45:15 AM
No one should take the Guardian review too seriously, the pretentiousness of the Guardian is incredible.

...also known as The Grauniad.

But its not nown as the grauniad becase of ani pretenshiuosness. Ther's anotheer reeson, wich I cant recal rite now.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: absinthe_boy on September 04, 2010, 06:18:04 AM
No one should take the Guardian review too seriously, the pretentiousness of the Guardian is incredible.

...also known as The Grauniad.

But its not nown as the grauniad becase of ani pretenshiuosness. Ther's anotheer reeson, wich I cant recal rite now.

They once actually spelled their own name incorrectly back in the day when metal typesetting was used. In the papers earlier days it was well known for typos.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 04, 2010, 06:30:52 AM
No one should take the Guardian review too seriously, the pretentiousness of the Guardian is incredible.

...also known as The Grauniad.

But its not nown as the grauniad becase of ani pretenshiuosness. Ther's anotheer reeson, wich I cant recal rite now.

 :lol me niether, but my freinds Lieber and Stoller will be able to. I just love these American typos, like: seperate, and so on.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: the captain on September 04, 2010, 06:36:15 AM
Definately. I do to.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 04, 2010, 06:45:04 AM
Definately. I do to.

I could of thought of that one to.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: the captain on September 04, 2010, 07:03:44 AM
Definately. I do to.

I could of thought of that one to.
Accept you didn't. I am better then you.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 04, 2010, 07:07:32 AM
Definately. I do to.

I could of thought of that one to.
Accept you didn't. I am better then you.

Yes. I am worser then you. Back on topic now...


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: the captain on September 04, 2010, 07:12:56 AM
Definately. I do to.

I could of thought of that one to.
Accept you didn't. I am better then you.

Yes. I am worser then you. Back on topic now...
OK fine. I hate when revues trash albums just because their not fans of the artist in question. (Actually I don't give a f***. I just really wanted to get the last typo-laugh.)


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Smilin Ed H on September 04, 2010, 07:24:56 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/reviews/album-brian-wilson-brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-disney-pearl-series-2068870.html

Independent review.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Mike's Beard on September 04, 2010, 07:53:00 AM
Definately. I do to.

I could of thought of that one to.
Accept you didn't. I am better then you.

Yes. I am worser then you. Back on topic now...
OK fine. I hate when revues trash albums just because their not fans of the artist in question. (Actually I don't give a foder. I just really wanted to get the last typo-laugh.)

You too our two much!   ;)


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: SurfRiderHawaii on September 04, 2010, 12:37:27 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/reviews/album-brian-wilson-brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-disney-pearl-series-2068870.html

Independent review.

Ouch  :o


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Smilin Ed H on September 05, 2010, 02:57:13 AM
Observer review:

Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin(Disney Pearl)
 
Ally Carnwath
The Observer
Sunday 5 September 2010

"Musical icon X covers canonical composer Y" is a familiar moneyspinner, but this record is different. Wilson and the Gershwin brothers make an interesting alliance – not just as monuments of popular song but as chroniclers of the American dream. And Wilson, who deals more in labours of love than conventional records these days, brings his usual sincerity and diligence. Gershwin nuts will be most interested in two obscurities – "The Like In I Love You" and "Nothing But Love" – but these are love songs not museum artefacts, and, as with all 13 tracks, Wilson draws out their freshness and life.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 06, 2010, 12:30:40 AM
Observer review:

Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin(Disney Pearl)
 
Ally Carnwath
The Observer
Sunday 5 September 2010

"Musical icon X covers canonical composer Y" is a familiar moneyspinner, but this record is different. Wilson and the Gershwin brothers make an interesting alliance – not just as monuments of popular song but as chroniclers of the American dream. And Wilson, who deals more in labours of love than conventional records these days, brings his usual sincerity and diligence. Gershwin nuts will be most interested in two obscurities – "The Like In I Love You" and "Nothing But Love" – but these are love songs not museum artefacts, and, as with all 13 tracks, Wilson draws out their freshness and life.


I am going to write a love letter to that Ally Carnwath person.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: summerinparadise.flac on September 06, 2010, 01:30:22 PM
Boy if the Disney album isn't crazy Love You style, synth-farting, weird arrangement etc. these reviews could get ugly...


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: the captain on September 06, 2010, 01:32:36 PM
Boy if the Disney album isn't crazy Love You style, synth-farting, weird arrangement etc. these reviews could get ugly...
I don't think anyone doing an album of Disney tunes is going into the project expecting critical acclaim for it.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: buddhahat on September 06, 2010, 02:50:21 PM
Boy if the Disney album isn't crazy Love You style, synth-farting, weird arrangement etc. these reviews could get ugly...
I don't think anyone doing an album of Disney tunes is going into the project expecting critical acclaim for it.

Yeah agreed I think they will be taking a risk with reviewers, and the reputation that BW has built up post the Pet Sounds tour (GIOMH notwithstanding). However although the odds are stacked against, I do believe that it's not a foregone conclusion that it will be bad, (honest!). It depends on:

1. Them picking the right covers to do, and there are some gems in the Disney catalogue I'm sure many would agree, and songs such as When You Wish Upon A Star are no less appropriate than Gershwin from a BB historical p.o.v.

2. They don't just try and repeat the Gershwin one by numbers, but actually try to respond to the quality within the Disney material, in an intelligent and creative way.

3. If you like BWRG. If you don't like BWRG I think there's probably not much hope that a set of Wilsonized Disney tunes will win you over. I do think the concept of Wilson covering Disney will alienate many reviewers before they've even listened to it, so I wonder if it's the most sensible choice the Wilson camp has made, But who says BW has to put out arty records? If he wants to make purely commercial decisions then so be it. Personally I look forward to it. My kids already sing along to BWRG so I'm quite psyched about the prospect of Wilson singing Disney! (God can't believe I'm admitting to this - must be getting old)


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: the captain on September 06, 2010, 03:03:01 PM
I'm not saying it can't be a good (or even great) record. There is, as you say, plenty of great material in the Disney catalogue. My point was simply that such a project is highly unlikely to be a critical favorite, no matter how good it ends up. I would hope that he approaches it entirely from a "what is fun? what might my kids like from me with this? what would I and the band enjoy doing?" perspective.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: shelter on September 06, 2010, 03:48:08 PM
From what I've heard,  BWRG isn't my usual thing. I always have to ask whether it's as a 'fanboy' that i like Brian's records. Would I feel the same if it were someone else making them?

My thoughts exactly. So far there are three songs that I like a whole lot, 'The Like In I Love You', 'I Got Plenty O' Nuttin'' and 'I Got Rhythm', but the rest... I want to like it cause it's Brian Wilson, but at the same time I know I wouldn't even give it a chance if it would've been anyone else cause it's really not my usual cup of tea.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: buddhahat on September 07, 2010, 05:09:57 AM
I'm not saying it can't be a good (or even great) record. There is, as you say, plenty of great material in the Disney catalogue. My point was simply that such a project is highly unlikely to be a critical favorite, no matter how good it ends up. I would hope that he approaches it entirely from a "what is fun? what might my kids like from me with this? what would I and the band enjoy doing?" perspective.

Yes definitely. Let's hope it functions on at least one level as a record for kids to enjoy, otherwise it won't stand a chance. Of course there's a big chance it won't happen at all knowing BW, although it sounds like he is obligated contractually to deliver something.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 07, 2010, 05:53:28 AM
I'm not saying it can't be a good (or even great) record. There is, as you say, plenty of great material in the Disney catalogue. My point was simply that such a project is highly unlikely to be a critical favorite, no matter how good it ends up. I would hope that he approaches it entirely from a "what is fun? what might my kids like from me with this? what would I and the band enjoy doing?" perspective.

Yes definitely. Let's hope it functions on at least one level as a record for kids to enjoy, otherwise it won't stand a chance. Of course there's a big chance it won't happen at all knowing BW, although it sounds like he is obligated contractually to deliver something.

What about a coke-fuelled, 45 minute long, pounding version of 'Heigh Ho' (done in the way Tom Waits did it in that Hal Willner project)?


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Mike's Beard on September 07, 2010, 06:16:59 AM
The words "Brian Wilson" and "contractually obligated" make for a very scary combination.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 07, 2010, 06:24:34 AM
The words "Brian Wilson" and "contractually obligated" make for a very scary combination.

 >:D as in: I Think We Have Been F*cked?


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: brother john on September 07, 2010, 06:25:34 AM
British snobbery at its worst. The writer smokes a pipe, loves his Chihuahua, and is a bachelor.

And that isn't snobbery? I'm British (well, English) and I don't smoke a pipe or have a chihuahua. It's just a review by one man. The UK is a broad church.


No one should take the Guardian review too seriously, the pretentiousness of the Guardian is incredible.

And this opinion is based on what? I assume you're from the UK, otherwise you wouldn't have an opinion. What do you read? Telegraph? Daily Mail?


Observer review:

Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin(Disney Pearl)
 
Ally Carnwath
The Observer
Sunday 5 September 2010

"Musical icon X covers canonical composer Y" is a familiar moneyspinner, but this record is different. Wilson and the Gershwin brothers make an interesting alliance – not just as monuments of popular song but as chroniclers of the American dream. And Wilson, who deals more in labours of love than conventional records these days, brings his usual sincerity and diligence. Gershwin nuts will be most interested in two obscurities – "The Like In I Love You" and "Nothing But Love" – but these are love songs not museum artefacts, and, as with all 13 tracks, Wilson draws out their freshness and life.


I am going to write a love letter to that Ally Carnwath person.

A nicer review. You may be surprised to hear that the Observer is the Sunday edition of the Guardian, that most pretentious of newspapers.


http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/reviews/album-brian-wilson-brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-disney-pearl-series-2068870.html

Independent review.

Ouch  :o

Thing is, in all honesty, most of these criticisms are fair. If someone else had released BWRG rather than our lovely Brian we'd probably hate it (or at least hate some of it). I think its not bad. Its not great, but its not bad. Pretty good for Brian Wilson. The thing is, we do tend to have what someone here described as a 'fan boy' appreciation of everything BW does, and we need to accept that other people (many of whom work as record reviewers) judge the millions of CDs they here on their own merits, and don't make allowances in the way we do. BWRG is not bad, but one one level I do accept the accusations of awfulness.

Head and tailing it with Rhapsody was a mistake as bother versions are wall of Brians and dire. TLIILY is a beautiful, nearly superb (if blandly mixed) piece of work which is genuinely almost great, and Nothing But Love is the first track by Brian Wilson for years, maybe decades, to contain any of the genuine joie de vivre of early Brian Wilson recordings.

Much of the rest of the album will sound strange to anyone who isn't familiar with Brian's singing 'style', which isn't even late Sinatra. The BG vocals are, as others have complained here, horribly MOR and EQd in such as way as to render them so bland and inoffensive as to be frankly offensive. Some of the arrangements are great, but to English ears the overall feel and sound of the album verges perilously close to pure trex. There is a rebellious and creative spirit to the British (English, Scots, Welsh and Irish) and stuff that's painless, smooth and wrinkle free tends to wash over us a bit.

I think the reviews cited here were a bit cruel, as the album is certainly better than they seem to be implying, but I don't believe for a minute there was an agenda to hate the album before listening. Everyone wants Brian Wilson to be great again, but we all find it hard to accept that it isn't going to happen.

No autotune. You heard it here.


P.S. Wirestone, once again a compelling voice of sanity.

Y'know, the album stands on its own.

It's a heartfelt, deeply considered work. It is not to everyone's taste. As I've posted many a place, there are certain aspects of this record -- cover versions, strings, crooning -- that will make many people cringe, fans and non-fans alike.

And that's okay. I've struggled with the album myself -- not its quality, which is really about the best Brian has ever done as a solo artist, but more with the fact that I know these songs well. Very well. And that's not quite as exciting as a new album of BW-written (or lightly frosted) tunes. He also excises all the lead-in verses from the songs (there's a great verse to "Someone to Watch Over Me," for example). But these criticisms are very personal -- they wouldn't make the album any better or worse for the general public.

Brian is not a fashionable guy. He is (still) a unique musician, with great depths of talent. And he's made a record that -- for once -- I can believe without reservation that he cares about and loves. For me, that's enough.





Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 07, 2010, 06:36:22 AM
Dear Brother John -

with all due respect: you are more earnest than I am. I didn't make to want a case about the quality of UK newspapers (hey, the Sun rules), nor about any semi-objective assessment of BWRG. I'm lucky the platter is around, and that Brian is still with us. What non-fans think is their own thing. Most reviews are boring anyway, by-the-numbers-hackwork.

This board gives me good information, great subjective insights, and an enormous amount of warm insider humour. That is why it is my favourite board on the web.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: brother john on September 07, 2010, 06:58:38 AM
Wasn't meaning to get at you HD - no offence taken and I hope none given. Its hard being English in England at the moment. Or maybe that's just my paranoia... :o ::) :lol

And you're probably right about the hack work. I guess a lot of reviewers just get to review what's thrown at them, and are all probably about fifteen anyway and into Gaga and MIA.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Shift on September 07, 2010, 07:10:32 AM
I'm English and I have smoked a pipe, if it helps. But I've never chewed a wahwah.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: buddhahat on September 07, 2010, 07:32:12 AM
But I've never chewed a wahwah.

Aye chiwawa!


Thing is, in all honesty, most of these criticisms are fair. If someone else had released BWRG rather than our lovely Brian we'd probably hate it (or at least hate some of it). I think its not bad. Its not great, but its not bad. Pretty good for Brian Wilson. The thing is, we do tend to have what someone here described as a 'fan boy' appreciation of everything BW does, and we need to accept that other people (many of whom work as record reviewers) judge the millions of CDs they here on their own merits, and don't make allowances in the way we do. BWRG is not bad, but one one level I do accept the accusations of awfulness.

Head and tailing it with Rhapsody was a mistake as bother versions are wall of Brians and dire. TLIILY is a beautiful, nearly superb (if blandly mixed) piece of work which is genuinely almost great, and Nothing But Love is the first track by Brian Wilson for years, maybe decades, to contain any of the genuine joie de vivre of early Brian Wilson recordings.

Much of the rest of the album will sound strange to anyone who isn't familiar with Brian's singing 'style', which isn't even late Sinatra. The BG vocals are, as others have complained here, horribly MOR and EQd in such as way as to render them so bland and inoffensive as to be frankly offensive. Some of the arrangements are great, but to English ears the overall feel and sound of the album verges perilously close to pure trex. There is a rebellious and creative spirit to the British (English, Scots, Welsh and Irish) and stuff that's painless, smooth and wrinkle free tends to wash over us a bit.

I think the reviews cited here were a bit cruel, as the album is certainly better than they seem to be implying, but I don't believe for a minute there was an agenda to hate the album before listening. Everyone wants Brian Wilson to be great again, but we all find it hard to accept that it isn't going to happen.

No autotune. You heard it here.





Good sense from Brother John. I love BWRG, but it holds the dubious honour of being the first album that has made me seriously question my own music taste, (aside from the ELO phase I went through at college, oh and liking Trans by Neil Young). I find it impossible to be objective about it and have resigned myself to the fact that I just love the music of Brian Wilson. I don't like everything he puts out these days, so I can't have succumbed wholly to the fanboy mentality (not that that would be a bad thing), but I'm halfway there. What I do know is that he can still write 'em when he chooses and as hard evidence I would cite the following tracks: Christmassey, Oxygen To The Brain, Midnight's Another Day, Message Man, Nothing But Love. However I would not dream of playing these to my friends as they would laugh in my face. As such I don't expect good reviews from The Guardian, but secretly, deep down, the following knowledge brings me great comfort and warmth: Brian Wilson is still a genius.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Paulos on September 07, 2010, 07:34:49 AM
Brother John, I am English and I do not read newspapers as there is something rotten about each and every one of them.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Shift on September 07, 2010, 07:52:30 AM
Good sense from Brother John. I love BWRG, but it holds the dubious honour of being the first album that has made me seriously question my own music taste... and have resigned myself to the fact that I just love the music of Brian Wilson. I don't like everything he puts out these days ...  I do know that he can still write 'em when he chooses and as hard evidence I would cite the following tracks: Christmassey, Oxygen To The Brain, Midnight's Another Day, Message Man, Nothing But Love. ...  secretly, deep down, the following knowledge brings me great comfort and warmth: Brian Wilson is still a genius.

I can fully align myself with that. I've been playing BWRG to death this last week or two and love some musical moments through and through, but not the concept in its entirety. What I love about the album is that it's BW, and that it's another window into his condition.   The music might not be to my taste, but the view through that window is fantastic.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: buddhahat on September 07, 2010, 08:09:52 AM
The music might not be to my taste, but the view through that window is fantastic.

Hear hear, and it's enough for me that I can get this enjoyment from the music, without having it validated by newspaper x or y's review.

I remember getting pretty knotted up over Paul Morley's review of BWPS, which ended along the lines : "I need to go and wash my ears out with Dr dre", or Hendrix or some other unquestionably hip muscian (tedious in itself to have to validate your opinion by letting the reader know that you are down with what's cool but that's by the by). I thought "He's wrong, and I'm right - this music is good, and he just doesn't realise it ......  Arsehole."    but on reflection I have realised that if somebody says they don't like something then that's fair play, it is not objective truth, and in fact no such objective quality rating exists for music. If you think Beethoven is merda, then more power to you. All that matters is your own enjoyment or lack of.

Edit: Actually having thought about this a bit longer, I think reviewers' opinions do have some importance as part of their role is to flag up for society what is or isn't worthy of our attention. I suppose a worst case scenario would be that if something zeitgeist changing like Sgt pepper had received only negative reviews then there is a danger that its subsequent dismissal could have a detrimental impact on culture. Maybe this is in part why we get defensive when we read bad reviews of things we like.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 07, 2010, 08:27:56 AM
The music might not be to my taste, but the view through that window is fantastic.

Hear hear, and it's enough for me that I can get this enjoyment from the music, without having it validated by newspaper x or y's review.

I remember getting pretty knotted up over Paul Morley's review of BWPS, which ended along the lines : "I need to go and wash my ears out with Dr dre", or Hendrix or some other unquestionably hip muscian (tedious in itself to have to validate your opinion by letting the reader know that you are down with what's cool but that's by the by). I thought "He's wrong, and I'm right - this music is good, and he just doesn't realise it ......  Arsehole."    but on reflection I have realised that if somebody says they don't like something then that's fair play, it is not objective truth, and in fact no such objective quality rating exists for music. If you think Beethoven is merda, then more power to you. All that matters is your own enjoyment or lack of.

Good call. I think Paul Morley is quite a narcissistic man. One of the arts with a capital A. Long, long ago I already thought he always wanted to be the true star of a review, not the artists themselves. He could be elated about absolutely mediocre stuff, or weird dross from the fringe. He dislikes (IMHO) the common man. The only thing I have to thank him for are the Fire Engines.

(Note: Ian Penman was even stranger. He did not write one single sentence that made any sense. I bet he'd read the collected works of Derrida, Foucault, Lacan, and their ilk, and nowt else. He went like this:

"In a semi-deluded dream state, in circular experiences of the numen pe se, the rhythmic expeditions of Zot Zot Plumbum are truly extraordinary, because wheres in prior work they tended to follow the colonialist attitudes of the ordinary aprés-ski tourist listener, this time the Freudian sub-sub id itself is addressed, with consequences that stretch far beyond the exploration of repressed emotions - the motíf Oedipal converges shockingly yet beautifully with the cerebral demands of the superego, modified as it was by Rogers in his typical Jungian réveries.")

In my world, Love You is a pure punk-album. Rough, open, emotional, unexpected, with faults, in your face, just as punk should be. Compared to it, Never Mind The Bollocks is lazy heavy metal drivel, far less interesting than anything by, say, Motörhead, Free, or, Wishbone Ash.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Mike's Beard on September 07, 2010, 09:13:15 AM
Brother John, I am English and I do not read newspapers as there is something rotten about each and every one of them.

As a fellow Brit I must add that all Newspapers over here are garbage. Only good if you want to read up on what B-List celebs have been up to in the last 24 hours. Even the actual news in these rags is written with a bias towards whatever Party the writer leans towards.

The music might not be to my taste, but the view through that window is fantastic.

Hear hear, and it's enough for me that I can get this enjoyment from the music, without having it validated by newspaper x or y's review.

I remember getting pretty knotted up over Paul Morley's review of BWPS, which ended along the lines : "I need to go and wash my ears out with Dr dre", or Hendrix or some other unquestionably hip muscian (tedious in itself to have to validate your opinion by letting the reader know that you are down with what's cool but that's by the by). I thought "He's wrong, and I'm right - this music is good, and he just doesn't realise it ......  Arsehole."    but on reflection I have realised that if somebody says they don't like something then that's fair play, it is not objective truth, and in fact no such objective quality rating exists for music. If you think Beethoven is merda, then more power to you. All that matters is your own enjoyment or lack of.

Edit: Actually having thought about this a bit longer, I think reviewers' opinions do have some importance as part of their role is to flag up for society what is or isn't worthy of our attention. I suppose a worst case scenario would be that if something zeitgeist changing like Sgt pepper had received only negative reviews then there is a danger that its subsequent dismissal could have a detrimental impact on culture. Maybe this is in part why we get defensive when we read bad reviews of things we like.


This is like saying "I need to go wash my ears out with sulphuric acid".


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Mike's Beard on September 07, 2010, 09:21:15 AM
The words "Brian Wilson" and "contractually obligated" make for a very scary combination.

 >:D as in: I Think We Have Been F*cked?

Have no fear Don. Once Brian has soldiered through and manfully delivered his contractually obligated Disney tunes album, he'll be able to buckle down and focus on his much anticipated personal dream project "Brian Wilson Reimagines Wishbone Ash". Even The Guardian will have no choice but to give it gushing 5 star write ups.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: brother john on September 07, 2010, 09:54:32 AM
The words "Brian Wilson" and "contractually obligated" make for a very scary combination.

 >:D as in: I Think We Have Been F*cked?

Have no fear Don. Once Brian has soldered through and delivered his contractually obligated Disney tunes album, he'll be able to buckle down and focus on his much anticipated personal dream project "Brian Wilson Reimagines Wishbone Ash". Even The Guardian will have no choice but to give it gushing 5 star write ups.

How about Brian Wilson Reimagines Dr Dre? Now that I'd like to hear!


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 07, 2010, 09:56:19 AM
The words "Brian Wilson" and "contractually obligated" make for a very scary combination.

 >:D as in: I Think We Have Been F*cked?

Have no fear Don. Once Brian has soldered through and delivered his contractually obligated Disney tunes album, he'll be able to buckle down and focus on his much anticipated personal dream project "Brian Wilson Reimagines Wishbone Ash". Even The Guardian will have no choice but to give it gushing 5 star write ups.

How about Brian Wilson Reimagines Dr Dre? Now that I'd like to hear!

 :lol :lol for the both of you... Brian Wilson Mashes Up Dr Dre, yes, I'd buy that.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: brother john on September 07, 2010, 09:57:19 AM
Brother John, I am English and I do not read newspapers as there is something rotten about each and every one of them.

You are quite right about that. Newspapers are one of my 'Don't get me started...' topics. Suffice to say they are all, to a greater or lesser extent, corrupt, except perhaps the Financial Times, which is a great paper.

If you want to know what's actually going on in the world, forget it.



Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: Mike's Beard on September 07, 2010, 10:02:13 AM
The words "Brian Wilson" and "contractually obligated" make for a very scary combination.

 >:D as in: I Think We Have Been F*cked?

Have no fear Don. Once Brian has soldered through and delivered his contractually obligated Disney tunes album, he'll be able to buckle down and focus on his much anticipated personal dream project "Brian Wilson Reimagines Wishbone Ash". Even The Guardian will have no choice but to give it gushing 5 star write ups.

How about Brian Wilson Reimagines Dr Dre? Now that I'd like to hear!

 :lol
Or "I Just Wasn't Made For These Rhymes"?


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: buddhahat on September 07, 2010, 10:30:16 AM

Or "I Just Wasn't Made For These Rhymes"?

Somebody has to do the mash up just to give that title a home.


Title: Re: Guardian review
Post by: The Heartical Don on September 10, 2010, 03:51:24 AM

Or "I Just Wasn't Made For These Rhymes"?

Somebody has to do the mash up just to give that title a home.

 :lol Yes. This title is a piece of art...