The Smiley Smile Message Board

Also dropped out of the Jazz Top 15.  ???

So... I think now would be a good time to ask the world in general, in a loud voice, "exactly what the f*** are Disney playing at ?"

They paid Brian $250K to record the album, got Al Schmitt (and he doesn't come cheap) to do a remix that wasn't really needed, manufactured that thing, did some reasonable pre-publicity... and then dropped the ball completely. Amazon ran out of their #1 seller... no special displays in the stores... seriously poor merchandising... Did they think the reviews alone would suffice ? Is it a tax write-off ?  Are they more interested in the movie songs album ?

Here's my bright idea: once the movie songs album is done, and the 50th is past, Brian's next album should be released on BriMel via the website, CD Baby, amazon.(your country here) and the like. Drop the 'Major Label' mentality - it's 2010, not 1964. Might not get a Billboard ranking, but with the middleman cut out, the points will be higher and there's a guaranteed market. Oh, and did I say 'archive' releases ? Yes, I just did.

Bottom line: outstandingly fine album, outstandingly inept promotion. Meet the new boss/Same as the old boss.

I'm with you.  I'm not a record exec, so I won't pretend to know what's going on... but you had the absolute highest people at Disney acting like they completely loved the album, and it appeared genuine.  Then they did pretty good marketing for it leading up to the release.  They invested major resources in it by having it be THE album that has new Gershwin material, when they could have let anybody do that... then they held all those listening parties and got out good review upon good review, talked all the talk about how they wanted it to be a runaway hit like Susan Boyle or whatever.... and then pressed about 10,000 copies.  WTF

If they didn't want to make copies available, why did they spend so much money on the album?  It's kind of baffling.

There is ONE more explanation, i'll see what you think.  Maybe they just wanted the album to claim it, and didn't care if it sold well?  It adds legitimacy to their portfolio, because it's a very well done album. 

.

To return to the 'problem': I stick by my idea that the album will be a sleeper. Not something that kids queue up for as if it were the iPad or something. More like an album one hears at dinner with good friends, and asks: what's that? Sounds terrific... old-fashioned and modern sounding at the same time...

(Mind: I'm with Andrews criticism of course. The dichotomy between the production values of BWRG and its marketing is incomprehensibly huge. But it will find its way eventually to all interested parties, I am convinced.)

Andrew - I am in the States, waiting to see Brian on the talk-u-tainment shows.  ABC and Disney are one and the same network.  When a new CD is promoted, here, there is a worldwind TV show "tour" where a couple of songs are sampled, a little chit-chat for the people and everyone in the audience goes home with a copy, gratis.  A big bang for the buck.

Now, there were some "heady" music reviews and a Nightline (ABC/Disney) interview which was pretty good of Brian.  However the "package" is nowhere to be found.  There is a captive audience just waiting to be "captured." And all the "ABC News" outlets and morning news shows where they do an entertainment spot.  They are not the only game in town.  There are many major networks, and the subsidiaries and cable stations...

All that work...and poor promotion.  They know better. 

When the Beach Boys debuted a new album, they often did that "talk show" circuit, Mike Douglas, Merv Griffin, The Tonight Show.  Brian was even on Home Shopping Network, with his Christmas ( I think.) Album...

And with someone else further down,  I want to go into the store and put it in my hand.  It is part of the charm...

Online just has no "soul" for me!

   

Keeping Brian out of that TV show tour was one of the major promotional accomplishments of this album.

The man's TV appearances are almost always problematic -- I doubt it would sell many records to have this weird old guy on Leno.

He does best on radio -- when you can play whole songs from the record -- or something tightly edited like the Nightline spot.

Reasonable minds can differ.  Brian did a fantastic job on the Nightline interview; it flowed freely and he was very relaxed.  If that is "where he is" in the communication domain, he gets an A from me. 

And people want to hear his music, so the "banter" takes second place.  I disagree that if he were on Leno/Ellen/Oprah/HSN it would not boost sales.  You have a huge "mixed-market" dynamic, most of whom are certainly familiar with the "back-story." 

That is like saying that an incumbent politician does not have to go out and campaign.  They have to "go through the motions" because their inaction is construed as "arrogance" or "sloppiness" and certainly very poor public relations.  The re-election of an incumbent, is "theirs to lose."

Brian has a gem, here, not a dud.  If you want sales, you have to play the game, knowing the numbers of  your demographic.   

The "momentum" of that " drop in week #2 - in my view, needless and shows sloppiness. It is not even out in Europe, which baffles me completely.  Radio, you have to "look for" and it is sort of a "niche," and, not mainstream - with TV you have the visual and the convenience of the "one stop" place in the news/entertainment arena.  It is "integrated promotion."

And Brian is not a "weird old guy"  - just an all grown up Beach Boy!       

The difference in Brian's crazy interviews and his beautiful music is very jarring.  I always love seeing him on the interviews, but maybe Disney just wasn't down with it, I don't know. 

I agree Andrew, it's very strange to drop the ball at this point. Maybe Disney did all of this for a future Grammy?

Brian seems pretty hinged together to me.  I am not personally privy to what is going on, so it is just the long time fan's perspective.

It might be that this is essentially an "Art for art's sake" project for Disney.  That would seem counter intuitive to me having been to their parks a gazillion times, including the Paris park.  They are the masters of promotion.  

Would they throw so much dough down the rabbit hole for nothing and relinquish control  (or appear to) of the promotional part?  For "Art's" sake and for the Gershwin legacy?  I don't know.  

But people tend to behave "consistently" and this seems so inconsistent with the way they handle every thing else "Disney."  It is always full court press for them and at full-throttle.  

Borders' bookstore where I bought my copy, had the CD on the speaker system, promoting it "internally."   It is not a reflection of the work (I hope) and merely a "misfire" of promotion.  

But, it feels sure like déjà vue...(Pet Sounds.)

I just think he tends to not come across very well in live TV appearances.

It has nothing to do with the incumbent effect -- just what will promote this lush, artistic album best. Go to YouTube and look at the clips of Brian's appearances on Leno, Conan, etc. Read the comments. The general audience finds his live voice and behavior odd.

I agree that Disney always makes money, but art for arts sake isn't lost on them.  I was just reading up on my favorite ride of all time, the Drop Zone Tower of Terror! in Florida, and there are little touches all through the ride that they didn't have to do, but that add to the experience only for the die hard Twilight Zone fans.  Even down to the room numbers and things on the wall.

So maybe they just wanted this to make their portfolio look good.  I don't know.  OR, maybe it'll sell perennially. 

And on top of that, people think he's a Muslim Communist! That won't go down well with middle America, you know. Unfortunately, we live in a dumb world full of dumb people, dumb corporations and the dumb media we deserve.

I suppose.  I happen to think we live in a great world full of beautiful people, places, things, and music.  I guess to each his own!

A person comes across as well as the interviewer, and the level of sensitivity and professionalism, is exercised.  That said, some formats might be better suited to Brian.  He did well on Larry King, a number of years back, and several others, where he might not end up as the "butt of the joke" in a monologue-based and or satire-based show.  

They might not be the correct fit, however, with the right match of "come from behind" story that Brian owns, and everyone is into "recovery" stories these days. There are ABC/Disney (they own the store!) venues, in my lowly opinion which fit the bill.  

They know he is not a "Song and Dance" man but has proven him to be quite the "crooner."  I am all for Brian and his success, in this new work, and would not want to see him ridiculed in any manner.  He has done better recently and seems very confident.  The issue is finding the best interviewers.  

I cannot be convinced  that Barbara Walters could not interview him, successfully, compassionately and with her unique touch of class. And, then do a song or two.  She is a master at this delicate, sensitive interview process and works for ABC/Disney.

JMHO

I always thought Brian came off well on both the Tonight Show and Letterman. Both Jay, and especially Dave, have a high regard for Brian. He is always treated with the utmost respect and never mocked, at least as I recall, anyway.

Brian looks more comfortable and seems to do best behind a grand piano, playing and singing. I wish he would do that now, instead of the no-play piano, arm waver who looks wanting for something to do.

Brain may not be the best interview subject in the world but he has definitely improved since the days of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q72y52p7IM

Hint - wait till near the end of the clip.

If Disney's so worried about art for art's sake, we'd have uncensored versions of Fantasia, Aladdin, The Rescuers, and The Little Mermaid. Plus, Song of the South would be available to buy. "Art for art's sake" my ass. Disney is a global conglomerate, bothered mainly by the bottom line. Brian Wilson is not a blip on their radar. We should just accept that.

PS - Can someone PLEASE tell me what's so racist about Song of the South? I don't see it. And I'm not a hick from Alabama.

Art of art's sake, money for God's sake.

You and the man below finished the argument...Now that is settled. 

However, I can't respond about "Song of the South" issue except that we were "discouraged from using it" in school.  It was linked in terms of the "master-servant" and "dialectical" thing.  The school system I taught in was under a desegregation order and it was construed as "racially insensitive."  I did not make the rules and never used it.  I used the Disney Anthology (sheet music) every day, and a lot of their work that was true to the old masters (Grimm, etc.) for fairy and folk tales, geared to my grade.  Great stuff.     

Still unanswered but troublesome is the "non-event" for BWRG, for this "global conglomerate."  Hopefully someone in Brian's organization or Disney will "take the bull by the horns" and start "turning this thing around" if it is not intended as Art for Art's sake, and not "Money, for God's sake." (You gave me a good giggle!) It was the Pet Sounds journey for a long time and painful for those of us on the sidelines to witness.   

Maybe Capitol should give them a jingle; seems they learned to eat their words with a "fork and spoon."   :lol   

And that was a hilarious YouTube with Joan Rivers. 

 As a transatlantic person, I am given to understand that it is the part where the black cotton pickers are singing about how they love picking cotton.

Song of the South has been released in the UK and is even shown on TV. We've worked out that it is of its time, and not intended to be racist...and in fact isn't racist.  A few years ago I recorded it from an airing on the BBC, had it converted to NTSC and shipped to relatives in the USA who had been waiting years to see it.

Not the briar patch!

If your diatribe against disney were true, they would have never paid Brian to record the album.  They would have tried to get him to produce the Jonas Brothers.  Lay off Disney. 

The U.S. is all I can comment on, and over here everybody's hyper sensitive about racial things.  Of course the movie isn't racist.  Ignoring racial differences and history isn't the way to eradicate racism; acting like nothing ever happened or professing till you're blue in the face that whites and blacks are identical is a losing game.  I live in the south, and blacks and whites intermingle everywhere, they work together, they live in the same communities, etc.  Hell they used to pick cotton together.  I've got lots of old white friends who tell me all the time about what a great memory they have of picking cotton before the bull weevils destroyed it all.  I'm not kidding, i'm serious. 

I have long been critical of Disney and the period of Eisner's management.   I understand that Disney "let" Brian do this as incentive for doing the children's album.  So I would have been surprised if they promoted it more than they did.  However, I suspect they didn't anticipate the beauty and potential of the album.  Maybe they will give it a second push?

Song of the South?  I don't see it was any worse than the crows in Dumbo.   AS for the movie being "of its time" I think there is some merit to that arguement.  Amos and Andy went years off the air but shows up occasionally as a historical piece on public television or some such venue.  Notable Black entertainers have expressed mixed feelings about this series being permanently shelved as it provides some of the only early television moments of Black actors back in the 50's.   I don't think Amos and Andy were portrayed as any dumber than say, Ralph and Norton.  

The Honeymooners.  Now THERE is a racist show.  It makes all us white guys be stereotyped as stupid and out of shape.

Nevermind Jackie Gleason was one of the greatest comedic minds that ever lived, we should ban the honeymooners. 

Also, it promoted spousal abuse; Alice was clearly battered and constantly in fear of his TOO THE MOON! threats. 

Little Black Sambo is still in print here in LimeyLand too. Mind you, we can no longer buy 'gollywogs' we have to call them 'gollies'.

We did go through a ridiculous phase in the 80's when some left wing local authorities banned black trash bags on the grounds that maybe somebody would be offended...and replaced them with pink! The same people who thought kids shouldn't be reading fairy tales or competing in competitive sports in case somebody is psychologically scarred by losing.

Sooner or later, governments will realise that the world has been shrunk by the internet and that 'banned' media can be obtained very easily....and that there is nothing they can do about it.

I think this is just another in a long line of Brian's fan base going ape-sh*t over his latest release, and then the reality of how its really being received by the general public sinking in. This release is doing fairly well with critics, 72 score on Metacritic...not bad. TLOS was a 70, POB Legacy was an 87, BWPS was a 97, Getting in Over My Head was a 55. The media critical perspective is only one yardstick....BWRG was not a critic's darling, it was a medium success. Another yardstick is sales, chart placing etc... BWRG sold about 12,000 in its first week, pretty good, #26 on the charts. I felt that performance must have been a bit of a disappointment to Brian's camp because TLOS debuted higher with much less buzz and clamor, not to mention media attention. If anybody actually thought BWRG would rise in the charts the second week they are not in touch with reality or the state of the music business. Falling to #52 isn't horrible...if it had stayed in the top 40 that would have been great. Some have called this record his career topper, of course that is not and was never going to be the case. A lot of BW's fans absolutely love the record and that's a positive. Will it rank as his best solo release once the glow wears off and it is assessed in a more sober way...say in a year? I'd say probably not. It'll probably be ranked in the top 3 BW solo releases for sure. Personally i think Brian's singing is great on it, a few tracks are really enjoyable...but many of the arrangements IMO are kind of bland. I grew up listening to Gershwin interpretations by a lot of great artists...this is another one, its not the best, and nowhere close to the worst. Brian and his team have dialed in a few very good records over the last 6 or 7 years. BWRG is very good too. Will it have a lasting effect? Probably yes with a good number of his hardcore fans. Will it become a classic? I think the odds on that are very slim. It still could win a Grammy or two and then sales will spike again...and maybe that's what Disney is counting on.

On one hand, the tone of that previous post is a bit much, but on the other hand, it's not exactly wrong.

Yeah, and when those Beach Boys albums didn't do well, people claimed that they were poorly promoted.

Thank you, Jon Stebbins, for an accurate, fair, and balanced (and not in the Fox News sense!) assessment of what is going on here.

A Beach Boys album, not a compilation or hits package, hasn't sold well since 15 Big Ones. That's thirty four years.

First, let me say that I respect the work you have done as a Beach Boys historian.  Thanks for your contribution.  I am not a "Brianista" or whatever they call them, just a "lifer." 

Second, I have had the opportunity to see other recording artists and songwriters "CD" work, presented in a media context which has not happened with Brian. IMHO 

Third, Pet Sounds was my first LP. It was not "out" very long, and you can check the veracity of this by any Capitol "time line" release order, before it was marginalized by the "BB Hits Vol 1."  And its non-promotion is a fact. I lived it and I saw it, hands on.  I did not know (like everyone else) what happened til the history enfolded much later.

That said, just to compare in the "not so distant past," Barry Manilow had some new CD released, maybe a year ago.  He was paraded through every daytime and some of the night time programs, with a full blown press package which is absent, here.  Free CD's for the audience which put the product immediately in the homes of those people.  That is the "route" which appears to be "custom and practice" in the trade or industry.  It appears to be the standard. 

The apparent problem is that the recording industry standard does not appear to be met.  They might even have a legal "duty to promote" the CD better than the less than impressive way they have done so far.. And "so far," in my opinion it is only cursory.   

It has nothing to do with having a fan "melt down." That is a value judgment.  If I sound harsh, I don't mean to. 

This is a fan discussion board, not the Supreme Court. 






   

Did he just compare groupies with Phil Spector?

This should go in the Brianisms thread.  :lol

The bit that cracked me is when you can hear Bruce off camera say in a very sarcastic tone "Is Phil a groupie Brian?"

As a fellow Limey I also remember blackboards being replaced with whiteboards in schools and reading how nurseries had children singing to "Ba ba BLUE sheep"

It is my opinion that is not often coloured people that see racism in these things, more the white, upper middle class 'ethnically aware" do-gooders (who probably don't have a blackman living within 5 miles of their property) feeling the need to speak on their behalf about what offends them.

BACK TO BRIAN WILSON!!!

Jon's post may have been heavy handed but it's true. 99.9% of the planet don't give a fig about Brian Wilson. At least not as a contemporary recording artist. In the general public's conscious Brian's doomed to remain in a 1960's timewarp along with Ray Davies.

 Brian Wilson "Reimagines Gershwin"

Sales this week: 8,150
Percentage change: -41
Weeks on: 2
Cume: 22,269

And almost no one cares.

Based on the hype, all the ink spread about this, you'd believe the audience was waiting in rapt attention, salivating, ready to buy.

But we've given up on Brian. His vocals are broken/cheesy and he's disappointed us too many times.

One summer track as good as "Fun, Fun, Fun" to knock off Katy Perry and we'd care again. I'd like to believe Brian's got that in him. But projects like this are good on paper, but irrelevant in the marketplace...like Renee Fleming goes pop..... On Bob Lefsetz web blog week ending 8/29

No, we wouldn't. I can think of some folk who would, but Brian left 'summer tracks' behind him in 1968

Are you sure?
http://www.billboard.com/charts/jazz-albums#/charts/jazz-albums (http://www.billboard.com/charts/jazz-albums#/charts/jazz-albums)

I know... that's odd. I checked the Jazz chart right after the 200, made sure it was for 9/11, and BWRG wasn't in the top 15. Then.

can't say i'm too surprised on this.

Bravo to Brian!

Donald you can google an interesting "shareholder" lawsuit involving Michael Eisner from a few years back...there was some stuff going on which Mickey's (Mouse) white gloves would not touch.  

I still maintain that is badly under-promoted.  There are plenty of newspaper reviews; who many non Beach Boys fans would even read them.  Even Justin Beiber gets out on the road to promote.  The argument that is it not "Brian's medium" does not hold water for me.

Brian is in the music industry 50 years and knows how the game is played.  Even if, for example, he were to do a "taped" interview with someone like Barbara Walters, it could be run right through the whole ABC/Disney network affiliates, and that base is covered.   Most of those interviews are only a few minutes at most, and several more to do the performance.  

If the Nightline interview was an example of "where he is" with being relaxed and loquacious, it seems as he is in pretty good shape at the moment, never mind going back to when he was not as much at ease.   Volumes have been written about how the "under promotion of his work" affected him.  

And that YouTube with Joan Rivers was hilarious...loved "Graduation Day" and Joan's miscalulation of the 1957 start date of the Boys!
Her people did not do their homework. Mike's ability to land on his feet to "reform" the date and put her at ease at the same time shows his showmanship and quick wit.

Glad it is at the top of this list and thanks so much for the info!

Still, IMHO; The overall promotion is still "conspicuous by its glaring absence."  

I care. We had Midnight's Another Day. That had the edge. Lyrically OTT (too many metaphors piled in), but damn-near as essential as Surf's Up, and certainly up there with 'Til I Die, This Whole World and many other top flight Wilsonians.

Those are not 'summer tracks'.

Yes, aware -  I'm referring to Butch's reference to tuns that make us care; these are simply tunes (not specifically summer themed) that make me care about BW's output... to be frank the summer themes are incidental and that theme isn't a prerequisite of my caring about his output.

Hmm, doubting my own clarity now -  hope my point comes through... it's a bit muddy... like a summer puddle...

I'd love to see Brian - or the BB... or both - chart with a cracking good, contemporary song, but the old sun/fun/cars/girls formula ain't gonna do it.

I think the average pop music listener in 2010 couldn't care less about Gershwin.  Doubt most young people even know who he was.  From the start, this project was going to appeal mostly to hardcore BW fans (people who were aware of BW's history with Rhapsody In Blue) and Gershwin fans.  That's not exactly a huge chunk of the population. 

When I went to my local music store to pick up a copy of BWRG (a day early!), my friend who owns the store actually thought that I was joking when I first told him I wanted it.  Pissed me off, to be honest.  But that's the climate. 

(I realize this is a separate issue from whether Disney dropped the ball)
     

I think "Soul searchin'" could've been just that song.

Honestly, I find this conversation a bit perplexing.  The idea that I, personally, went to the store last week and bought a new brian wilson album, and it was friggin awesome...well, that's about as much of a miracle as I can imagine!!  The idea that there is still, after 50 years, great NEW beach boys related music for me to get excited about, that's a miracle.  Of course no one bought it!!  People haven't been buying the Beach Boy's music in any serious, non-nostalgic sense since 1966.  I don't care that Sunflower hit 152 anymore than I care that Beach Boys Concert hit 1. 

Personally I don't think Midnight is up there with 'Til I Die and This Whole World, not even close. It strikes me as an attempt to write a 'Til I Die-like song (especially in terms of the lyrics) and to my ears it even was mostly successful at that (loved the demo recording in particular), but it's still very different from Brian pouring his very heart out in a song such as the original 'Til I Die.

Disney knows what they are doing. They have already bribed the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences. Once the "Album of the Year" award is presented "...Reimagines Gershwin" will soar back into the top ten over night.

Yes, good points, it was a 'Til I Die wannabe, but undoubtedly one of the best BW songs for many years and I think transcended its lyrical quality.   In fact you;re probably right that it's not really up there with TID, but is indicative of the potential that remains.  I have faith!

I think "Soul searchin'" could've been just that song.

A good retro song, but  Brian should've moved on from that sort of stuff - and at his best, he still can.

I can imagine the Disney album being awful.  He can dress it up anyway he likes, but for a considerable percentage of the audience, Disney = twee sentimentality; a company that sold out years ago.  It'll be even worse if he does anything from the last 30 years... Maybe he should bring it out for Christmas...

I don't know -- given the sales -- that we can assume Brian has an audience.

The Beach Boys have an audience. Gershwin has an audience. Disney tunes have an audience. Some of those audiences will occasionally buy a Brian Wilson record.

Stating the obvious but there's a huge leap between being a BB's 'hits' fan and wanting to hear a BW solo effort years after his prime. Even if you take a group with a still large contemporary audience like the 'Stones - Mick, Ronnie and Keef struggle to shift more than a thousand copies when they release a solo record. For someone to want to buy this album they most likely must have gone from "Endless Summer, to Pet Sounds, to Sunflower, through the 15BO's/Love You debacle, to the lesser late 70's stuff, touched upon the 80's crap and picked up on Bri's very hit and miss earlier solo efforts and still want more. That's a minefield that very few music fans are going to stick with all the way.

Although, I will say -- Smile and That Lucky Old Sun actually broke though here and there. A 23-year-old guy at my workplace actually owns TLOS -- and he knows none of the history. Interestingly enough, though, once I passed on some of the demos to him, he liked those better.

Thing is, though -- Smile was a really wasted opportunity if Brian had wanted to remain a relevant recording artist. That should have been followed up a year later with a super-strong album of originals, also on Nonesuch (which really knows how to package and market that kind of late-middle-age singer-songwriter stuff). Instead, he toured Smile for a year, put out a Christmas album, and the Smile "follow up" came four years later, clothed in a unneeded "concept album" costume.

Each time Brian has some momentum in the solo career -- 88, 95, 04 -- you can bet that something is going to push it aside. As a result, the man has no consistent audience for his solo work. People know who he is, but the people who picked up BW88, or IJWMFTT, or Smile -- these aren't the same people. He's never managed to string together two knockouts in a row -- like Bobby D. with Time out of Mind into Love and Theft -- that establish him as contemporary again to listeners or reviewers.

If you enter the phrase "brian wilson reimagines gershwin" into Google, the list of suggested searches starts in this order

brian wilson reimagines gershwin
brian wilson reimagines gershwin torrents
brian wilson reimagines gershwin reviews
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Getting any sales figures out of #2-5?

(sorry to end the thread)

It *might*, but only if it's done right. Which, as we all know, is a HUGE "but".

In the 16 Sept issue of Rolling Stone, the 'BUY THIS NOW" column in the reviews section includes 3 items, one of which is BWRG.

The store where I saw it had one well-hidden (formerly) copy of BWRG on the shelf.

The Best Buy across the road had one copy, behind some other stuff (not the Ash).

Might get some sales from 'reviews' since many of them are positive. A curious punter might read reviews having vageuly heard the album mentioned, then buy it.

I bet if you google the name of many albums the terms 'torrent' and 'rapidshare' appear after. Try it with whatever is number 1 today.

THere's even a chance that people will try before they buy....download MP3's illegally and then decide to buy the real thing.

The biggest problem would seem to be that the CD is not visible. People who are not die-hard Brian Wilson fans but who nonetheless might decide to buy it if they saw it.....cannot see it.

Why couldn't Brian stay at Capitol? They seemed happy to have him. Had press conference on tower to announce his return. Released him album in classy manner. Why does an artist of Brian's calibur have to hop from label to label like a cheap whore?

1. Brian Wilson is not a mainstream pop musician. He's a musician for connoiseurs. His record sales aren't bad considering that. Is there any other artist with his profile selling that well? Don't say Dylan or Macca because they ARE mainstream. I know that fans want the whole world to appreciate what they know, but what we have isn't that bad: he's recording good music, singing great, and seemingly will keep on making music.

2. I think Brian's solo releases, with the sole exception of "Imagination" (nevertheless a weak recording), suffer from some fanboy over-information. His collaborators are fans, they know the catalogue and they like coming up with BW self-quotations. An extreme example is the whole of BWPS, but there's "self" quotation all over BW's solo music. And it's not legitimate self-quotation.

I mean: as every great artist, Brian IS auto-referential... the shortenin' bread riff, Proud Mary, the Spector sound, etc... But the Farmer's Daughter outro on IGR cannot be his idea... or this strange thought that tracks on a BW album must be linked as Smile was (fan)-supposed to be; that's what a fanboy musician working for him cares for. And on the whole, perhaps  a "beach boy" sounding cover of a Gershwin tune isn't his idea either.  Brian will always sound like Brian, that's for sure, but there's a degree of auto reference that isn't his. Heck, we end up dealing with a musical equivalent of Mike's permanent "vibrations" rhymes.

Album didn't sell that well. Deal was for one record only.

That's the way the business works these days, unfortunately.

I disagree with Dr. Lenny regarding Imagination. I don't think it was a weak album at all. If there's a weak solo album of the bunch, I think it would have to be "Gettin' In Over My Head".

If the Disney deal goes as per contract, and I've reason to believe it will, it'll be the first time in Brian's solo career 1986-date that he's released back-to-back albums on the same label.  :thud

Mikie, I agree with you in thinking that Imagination is a real "repeat listen" and I don't tend to skip around much.  It is lively and upbeat and has a "healthy and positive place" to put his grief over Carl with Lay Down Burden...

Whether it was a big seller is another story, but it was better promoted than this apparent disaster with no store displays, no TV promos, or appearances and now I wonder if AGD's thinking out loud might be correct in whether this is a tax write-off.  But, why would they do this to Brian?  What could be the motivation?  There is more here than meets the eye.  Unless Brian insisted on no TV promotion.  There is a real "disconnect" here. 

In the past, they have had Brian do CD "signings" with purchases in major book/music stores...     

Dr. Lenny - I don't agree with your "elitist and classicist" approach to Brian.  That could become a "self-fulfilling prophesy." Many of his fans are also "crossover" Beach Boys fans and concertgoers. 

His compositional work permeates every social strata in both American and even  many countries "out of the States" culture...I often hear "Pet Sounds" (instrumental) in the "decorating" segment of TV5 - the International French station, as well much of everything Beach Boys/Brian Wilson.  It is impossible to separate The Work from The Master.     

 

Please stop using quotation marks. I'm begging you.

Nobody said you were 'An Atheist'. Is this 'true'?  ;D

Yeah, Filledeplage, the board is in danger of shutting down!  

It's the teacher in her; all that correct punctuation and stuff.  ;D

Thanks, Babe!  :kiss  "Rock and Roller to the Rescue!"

http://jerz.setonhill.edu/writing/grammar/quotes/basic.htm

found under "Emphasis"  ;)

Nope, because the quotes there imply you're being ironic. So, because I am, it is untrue. And filledeplage, no offense to you. Sorry--it's me, not you. But while quotation marks can be used not just to quote (but to show irony or maybe emphasis), such overuse distracts me. I get dizzy. I fall down. I hit my head. It's no good for anyone (especially me). Thanks in advance. Again, it's my problem, not yours. I'm just asking it as a favor.

Luther - Darlin' - it is not just for irony, it also denotes when it is an idea of a "certain time" or meaning that it is "someone else's" idea and not yours, you give the credit to the rightful creator or author, and for clarity, legally. 

My kids who are probably your age (1980's) don't understand it as well, because education was not emphasizing, in my humble opinion, the extreme need to make sure the lines don't get blurred with a concept known as "attribution" - read plagiarism, which got very out of control with the advent of the internet.

Attribution is also a legal concept in Copyright and Entertainment law, protected under the US Constitution.       

And, -  the temptation of things like Sparknotes (We used Cliffnotes, but "judiciously" - meaning we did the research, too) only made the problem worse.   People would lift (copy) entire sections, without using quotes as if the student would let the reader (the not-so-dumb teacher or professor) think it was their (the student) work;  not the original author. 

Colleges and universities are now zeroing in on this huge problem, by making students sign pledges.  (And, I still take courses to maintain my credentials and have to sign those "pledges.") e.g. "I pledge that the work is entirely my own..."     

And, it is style...Ever hear of e e cummings? 

Hope your head is not spinning!  ;)



 

I'm still pretty happy how the albums going....

Sure It might not be high on the Billboard chart but it's still selling very well online on various sites..

Holding steady on amazon etc, let's hope for some deserved awards that might send it high again

It's the numer one jazz album apparently

http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/jazz-albums (http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/jazz-albums)

I appreciate you calling me darling. And I feel the same about you, precious. But please understand that I know what quotations are. I know when they ought to be used. And I "know" that "sometimes" people "use" them regardless of whether they are "quoting" someone else, just using "slang," perhaps being "ironic," or whatever other "reason" they may have. Seriously. It's agony. I try not to be a grammar nazi here, but I'm not kidding when I say it's dizzying to see a word that is neither quoted nor especially noteworthy in any other appropriate way in every sentence in quotation marks. It's not as if I don't know calling you out makes me look like an even bigger asshole than I am to the whole board, either. But I'm begging you anyway. "Stop" using "quotation marks" when they aren't "necessary."

To be fair, I appreciate you not misusing the quotation tool on the site. That's a positive. And I usually agree with what you have to say. So there you have it. Everything evens out (aside from me being an asshole.)

Out of stock on amazon.co.uk lol

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003TOYG7M/ref=s9_simh_gw_p15_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1BPJ8XB8ZM9Y08A9G4Z1&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128533&pf_rd_i=468294 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003TOYG7M/ref=s9_simh_gw_p15_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1BPJ8XB8ZM9Y08A9G4Z1&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128533&pf_rd_i=468294)

Never seen an album out of stock on the day of it's release  :lol

Relax Luther  - this is only a movie...we all just are here because we love the music.

No one needs to take a grammar test to join this board...all you need is to be a fan...and hopefully informed.

It is what we say...not how we say it...

You are not a b-hole...you're just fine...

I hate grades anyway...and I admire your spunk...my favorite kids in school were the boys with "spirit" - there I did it - the quotes!

It is just delightful that there are young people out there who love the music of the Beach Boys and Brian enough to take the time to listen to their great music and take the time to share and reflect about what you like and what you even don't like...

And I would even go so far as to say that those Beach Boys who read these community boards from time to time, as their time allows, are probably very happy to see young people who are interested and motivated to join the discussion and learn about the music from an historical perspective, even though when they were composing it and performing it on tour they maybe did not think they were making history, but they were. 

It really means that they did something worthwhile with their lives, and made a contribution in life and gratifying that young people want to learn all about that road.  At the end of the day, that is what we all want, I think.

It  can be intimidating to be among some of these Beach Boys/Brian Wilson scholars but the study of the music is well worth it.  This is study in a sense.  I learn something new all the time, even though I grew up alongside the music which is a real advantage for me because generally music reflects society at each particular moment in history.   They are no exception. 

And, I just loved seeing that photo of Dennis with his hand all wrapped up after an injury.  I knew he had injured it and was not at the drums, but never saw that picture.  Dennis the sexy Beach Boy and gone all these years...It was cool to see that.     8)

Don't beat yourself up...life can do that...

You're just fine... ;)

d   

I don't like ellipses, either.  ;D

At least you know what they are, but, you are out of luck!

I hope you have watched all the videos in another thread.

That is your homework. 

Watch them and write something "cogent" about them...

Bonsoir!  ;)

Sadly, I've seen them. I've said (about Wipeout, specifically) pretty much all I can bring myself to say without coming across as even more negative than I already do. And am. I really dislike most of those videos.

This may be a really dumb question, but does Billboard also use foreign (to the US) sales in their charting?

Say if sales in England skyrocketed, would that be represented in Billboard?

No, the primary Billboard charts are based on U.S. sales, airplay, etc. (Billboard also has international charts, though.) More info is at: http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/charts/charts_legend.jsp

Thanks!

I'm thinking (or is it wishing?) that BWRG is the lead-in to Brian being given the Gershwin Award by the Library of Congress next year. His associated performance at the White House before the Obamas and other un-crowned heads will then lead to astonishing sales of BWRG and gold or even platinum sales status.....

Eh, with the approval ratings of you-know-who, I'd hope Brian would stay away from the White House....and I very much doubt his performance there would really change sales for the better - I doubt Dylan's appearance on the White House PBS special this last Winter helped his sales drastically.

Very correct. Brian at the Whithouse NOW would not be a good idea. As for fiddlepage asking if the poster  has seen the videos, I think it has more to do with the fact that if you were not there, you can hardly have a point of reference to go against the grain.  It's not the fault of the young folk for not being around for the shows and such, but to sit and watch old films now and then to somehow think you're in a position to criticize what went down is LUdicrous.

Right. One may only comment about what one experienced first-hand. Things ain't what they used to be. Et cetera.

I don't think ever-fluctuating poll ratings of the current (or previous) occupant of the White House has any relation to whether Brian deserves the Gershwin Award or not. Frankly, I was very surprised when McCartney (a non-U.S. citizen) got the GA last year, ahead of Brian. Brian is overdue for that recognition, imho.

Good point about the current approval ratings. Whoever gets the award, the show won't happen until next spring.....when it could be better or worse. As someone else pointed out above, BW isn't in the same sales group as Dylan or Macca (who got the 2010 Gershwhin Award), so I wouldn't write off the possibility of a sales boost should an award come along. But you're likely right a big boost may be a fantasy.

Exactly. But the sales benefit of getting the award program on TV could vary depending on the popularity of the venue host. It would make ZERO difference to me if the host was GWB or BHO but to some people it would make a difference in whether they would even watch.

Worldwide Obama is still pretty popular....so overall global sales would be increased if Brian played at the white house.

As for comments on people too young to experience events....clearly nobody in the world is qualified to give an opinion on the Boer war, or the Roman empire. So its best nobody ever discusses them.

foder that. Get him to the White House! Heaven forbid he be seen with an African-born black Muslim communist or is that nazi or...? Well whatever...

Who the heck is Trombone Shorty? Is that Al sneaking in to knock Bri out of the #1 spot?  :o

Maybe Al sports a trombone sporting alias? If so he needs to team back up with Mike and get him to dust off his saxophone for a Jazz duet album. I propose that Mike's jazz altar ego be "Saxyboy Lovehorn".

 :lol I see possibilities... if Al and Mike would get Kenny G. to co-operate, a dream combination would be on the horizon.

Saxyboy Lovehorn & Trombone Shorty Present "Put Your Lips Around This (And Blow)". Instant classic.

Nice to hear TCTTAFM on BBC Radio 2 this morning at 06:50am, with a brief mention of the new record being launched in the UK today.

Aye, Lynne Parsons seems to be playing bits of the album quite regularly.  Should be made an honorary blueboarder!

Oh no! That should be titled 'Jazz Cheeze Galore'.

My other suggestion was "Through the Jazzhole". I've got others but I feel I've lowered the tone of the board enough for one day.

Go to your music room, Brian.  Take cake if necessary and 'excercise' every morning, but sit at your keyboard and noodle away and record it all then call in Darian or Andy Paley or Scott Bennett and see if you can work up something with ambition, like the best bits of BW88 or TLOS.  Don't worry about touring it, getting it on a major label, what the wife thinks or how many times the Lovester wants to put lyrics to it.  In fact, don't even bother about the lyrics, just work it up into a suite of music and harmony bvs.  Of course, you've done enough already, but if you're going to do more, do this. 

BWRG has ambition to spare. Just sayin.' Might not be ambition that everyone here likes, but it's arguably a greater risk than anything Brian has done since the '66 Smile sessions.

I disagree with you, Wirestone, about it being such a risk. I don't hear any risks on the album at all. And even if there were risks, what's the worst-case scenario? If it were bad artistically--poorly done--then it would be another GIOMH. It would have gotten some of the typical "Brian is back" reviews that every album of his gets regardless of quality, plus some more critical ones. But Brian's legacy would remain in tact. If it were bad sales-wise, well, it would be more or less like every other album he has done. And he would continue to do whatever projects he and his team decide to do, because he'll always have some label who is willing to take him for an album.

By that logic, it's basically impossible for Brian to take a risk.

But yes, I think if you assume a somewhat different starting point, the album is quite a risk. It's an album of pre-rock covers, requiring vocal finesse and tidiness of execution that few (certainly not me) expected from Brian. It features "I Loves You Porgy" -- a choice that Brian actually argued about with Disney. And won. Theremin features on almost half the album. And several of the songs are genuinely transformed -- Brian didn't hand off the project to an outside orchestrator. He sat down and made the tunes his own.

He took on a big challenge and went beyond what anyone could have reasonably expected. In a genre where pop stars are routinely ridiculed (Rod Stewart has destroyed his credibility doing it). And for a man who has so often followed paths cleared by others, clearing this one on his own seems like taking a risk to me.

I don't see us agreeing on this one. Using a theremin, which he used 40 years ago, as a risk? And the orchestration: he may not have handed off to an outside orchestrator, but he did the more obvious and totally un-risky thing of choosing Mertens, with whom he has worked for over a decade and whose abilities have been proved on BWPS and TLOS. I think Wilson did a very good job with the album and (judging by the results) apparently worked harder than he typically has done. But I don't think there was a lot of risk involved in the project. Even if BW himself weren't up to the task, I think the team would have ensured a solid product. Luckily, BW was up to the task and it's better than solid.

Different strokes, man.

Yep. That reminds me, one of these years I ought to put down some organized thoughts on the album in the reviews section. (And R.I.P. Gary Coleman and Dana Plato. Todd Bridges forever.)

You're missing the biggest risks of all - taking the project on in the first place, and the possibility that The Gershwin Estate might not approve. For someone like Brian that's not so much out of his comfort zone as somewhere slightly beyond the next galaxy.

I still love that he argued about singing "I Loves You Porgy" from the female perspective and, yes, won. Whatever his motives for doing this -- and I imagine they're simply "not fucking with the original" -- I like that he does that. It almost makes up for "Hey Little Tomboy"!

That's fair.

Is anyone aware of airplay for any of the BWRG tracks?

Rod Stewart didn't have any credibility before. He had nothing to lose.

I'm not convinced the album is great....but it is very good...and it does smell of Brian Wilson actually taking control of the project.

I do feel (AGD step in if I am wrong) that post-SMiLE....Brian has got some confidence in his own abilities back. As has been pointed out, he took on a project which could easily have gained criticism from the Gershwin estate or Disney when Brian handed over the finished product for an audition....he took risks here that he simply wouldn't have done 5 years ago....and he pulls off I Loves You Porgy which is quite something.

Excellent point.

Eh? So 'Every Picture Tells A Story' didn't reach U.S. stores then?

I'm English Don.  ;)

I think that this is exactly what Disney is hoping for.  Get the album in the stores with some good press just before the cutoff date for Grammy consideration.  Lobby for 'Album Of The Year" or some such Grammy award.  Then, if it wins a high profile award, the big push. 

It would be nice to think it was all a pre-ordained strategy... but frankly it all looks like a complete f***-up to me.

It sold out on Amazon.co.uk on its first day of availability.

Complete f*** up.

People are talking about this album like it's a flop, but despite everything, BWRG will go down in history as a #26 album and that really isn't bad, is it? It's Brian's 3rd highest charting solo album ever, and overall his 5th highest charting studio album since 'Pet Sounds'...

It would be interesting for buyers in stores to inquire about how many CD's the store had in inventory.  Why?  I got the last one where I bought mine...Incredulously, I asked the clerk how many they had in inventory, just a couple of days post-release.  He told me "4" (four,) IV, quatre...and could not believe it!  Then I got the song and dance, "We can order it for you!"  Thanks, but no thanks.  This was a major book-music chain, which even sells foreign magazines and books.

Knowing the clerk was not "of the generation" so, dumbfounded, but happy I secured the last copy.  It might be well for people to inquire as to how many copies stores ordered, or within the store computerized inventory, as to whether there was a "created shortage" like the Cabbage Patch Dolls of the 1980's. Or even whether there was a limited number in the production line.  Customers might be able to infer what is going on by what the true inventory in the stores really is.  This may be something we are not looking at.  There were more copies of Sounds of Summer and Pet Sounds than the Gershwin CD.  

As you say above...and I agree completely!

 

 

Maybe retailer's are just hedging their bets a little? What would be worse in their eyes; ordering stacks of copies and having no one interested, or ordering not enough to meet demands?

No argument there: I just wish I didn't know that the first week sales were about 13,000, second week some 8,000. Were there actually enough discs in the stores/at amazon on 8/17, we might be looking at a Top 20 debut

and number 80 the third week......number 2 on jazz charts

Just a quick note: as I had previously written on this board, BWRG was about #30.000 in "music" on Amazon.fr. Yet Amazon.fr didn't have any copies left on Sept. 6th (Europe release date). Just how many copies of BWRG were Amazon.fr provided with? Two?  ???

Well, he's scheduled for the Tonight Show in a couple of weeks.

Think this could have been coordinated a bit better, but I'm sure it will shift some units.

He should sing TCTTAFM

I think the album has been selling great

Yes, that would be fine. But I would break into joyful tears if Bri did I've Got a Crush On You. The audience would soak it up and Jay would go home singing the song. Amazon would sell out again. 

def should do i've got a crush.  TCTTAFM would be so cheesy and bad live. 

UK news where BWRG is ending its first week on sale. I don't generally listen to radio much but my wife tells me Radio 2 has been playing TCCTAFM and IANS during the week. Can't hurt sales, they are probably the two tracks that the radio audience would be most likely to recognise and identify with.

I'd still like to see TCCTAFM released as a 45. Do a 'Wonderful' and chart it, generate some more interest in the album. I've not seen much in the way of promotion over here.

I am all for some good ol'time payola.

I am aware of somebody who, in the 70's and 80's, would help fix the charts for a certain big record label of the time. He was involved in shipping records to the record shops, back then of course most of them not part of huge chains. He'd find the weaknesses of the shop managers and encourage them to report false sales by such tacticts as buying them bottles of whiskey or crates of beer or sessions with ladies of the night.