The Smiley Smile Message Board

I really don't know the answer to this sense I am not sure what the big albums (commercially and proggressivly) were that year. I know that Dark Side of the Moon came out that year which is one of the greatest albums of all time. Dark Side is much better then Holland, but the track Steam Boat stands up. But Dark Side is one of the greatest albums of all time. What are some of the other albums of 1973? The big hits? Now lets see how Holland stacks up.

Well, it was a Rolling Stone Album of the Year in 1973...

Personally, I think Dark Side of the Moon is rather overrated... I mean, yes, it's a great album, but it's kinda like Led Zeppelin IV or The Wall when it comes to popularity. I believe The Piper at the Gates of Dawn is actually a better album, because it lacks the intense, suffocating seriousness that the latter Pink Floyd had in droves.

I would say that Dark Side is perhaps their best, but Piper may be my favorite.

Are you refering to Holland or Dark Side?

I am not a fan of Dark Side much at all, but 1973 had (as most years end up having once enough time passes and you can look back) a LOT of great albums. Some others, Randy Newan's Good Ol' Boys, Zeppelin's Houses of the Holy, Stevie Wonder's Innvervisions, Big Star's Radio City, the Stooges' Raw Power, Wings' Band on the Run, Lou Reed's Berlin, Herbie Hancock's Headhunters, Frank Zappa's Over-Nite Sensation, to name just a few I am fond of. I like Holland, but with all due respect to the Beach Boys, I don't think I could include it among my Top 10 of that year.

Holland was the RS album of the year...

I seem to recall that RS rated "Holland" the third best album of the year, though my memory could be fading a bit.

The Beach Boys were voted Band Of The Year in Rolling Stone. I'm not sure if it was the same year or in 1974?

I enjoy Holland but I usually skip the California Saga (too white for me :P). Dark Side of the Moon and Houses Of The Holy are solid efforts throughout. John Lennon's Mind Games is a very underrated album in his canon. Overnite Sensation is pretty enjoyable all of the way through. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath came out that year as well. 1973 was dominated by singer/songwriter acts too like Jim Croce, James Taylor, Carol King, etc. And weren't the Carpenters big at the time as well?

My own quick thoughts on Holland now (I actually listened to it last night before I went to sleep so my memory is sort of fresh):

Sail On Sailor: Cool groove but suffers from being written by committee with very little of Brian's input.
Steamboat: Probably my favorite song on here.
California Saga: Boring. But popular amongst BB fans.
Leaving This Town: Interesting synth solo in the middle but I much prefer the live version on "In Concert" with the organ solo and cool percussion. I really enjoy the lyrics to this one as well.
The Trader: I know I'm going out of order here. I really love this song and I like Jack's lyrics too. Nice mellow 2nd part.
Only With You: I love this song put I prefer the version on the POB cd with accordian. And I love that live version from Carnegie Hall '72.
Funky Pretty: The live version on "In Concert" totally rocks. The only real problem here is Brian's limited drumming.
Mount Vernon:  ??? I mean, what can you say about that track?  ??? It scares me, okay?
We Got Love: An okay song but better live.
Carry Me Home: Powerful song and would love to see it released someday.
Hard Times: Okay but quickly forgettable.

To be honest, I prefer So Tough to Holland as a studio album but I still believe they were a much better live act than recording artists during this era. I would love to see more of the tapes from those shows be released as a boxed set of sorts.

In the early toMid 70s, Rolling Stone selected several albums as albums of the year...as I recall, Holland was one of 5 or so in 1973...

I had a real love/hate relationship with Holland years ago. I used to think that half of it was so unbelievably head in your hand pretentious (Big Sur, The Beaks of Eagles, The Trader, Leaving This Town) and half of it (Sail On Sailor, Steamboat, California, Only With You, Funky Pretty, Mount Vernon and Fairway) was righteous, standing with their finest material.

Nowadays, I've come around a lot more to it. I think it stands up well as a Beach Boys album, and certainly feels more like one than Carl and the Passions did if we're using the Blondie/Ricky era as a reference point. In the context of 1973, it's a very warm album. It's inviting, provoking, and organic. Revisionism seems to dictate that Carl and the Passions and Holland had the potential to be combined as a great double LP, but honestly I don't see how that would work at all. Carl and the Passions catches them in a very disjointed frame of mind and lacks a cohesive sound, despite the presence of four undeniable gems (You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone, Marcella, All This Is That, Cuddle Up). Holland, while still going all over the place, doesn't feel like an album made by a band split into factions.

We could be very (possibly overly) kind to Holland and say that it stands up well as the Beach Boys' form of a country rock album. There are bits and pieces of contemporary sounds spread all over the album. It sounds similar to what artists like Neil Young and the Eagles were doing around that time. The album is also one of their best as far as the imagery it conjures up in your mind. I think Andrew Doe said it best in his book (or at least I think it was him), that the album named for the area they called home for a few months was the one most predominantly about California. It makes a whole lot of sense when you take it in that context. This is an album for road trips.

I amaze myself at how bipolar my taste in Beach Boys music is sometimes... :lol

I wonder if Wishbone Ash released an album in 1973...

I think 1973 had much fewer great albums compared to '72. As much as I love Holland I doubt it would have made top 5 in RS if it had been made a year or two earlier.

I believe a new running gag has been born...

Great album

1973:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ac/Wishbonefour.jpg/200px-Wishbonefour.jpg)

1973 is a great year for albums, aside from the aforementioned Floyd, Lou Reed and Zeppelin, there was also Queens debut album (great), Genesis' 'Selling England by the pound' (my favourite of theirs), Black Sabbaths 'Sabbath bloody Sabbath' (brilliant) - those 6 albums are some of my favourite albums of all time and I don't think Holland comes even close to them...
I much prefer CATP to Holland which I was primed not to like after reading AGDs book in the 90s but then was pleasantly surprised by it.

Nice call, surely evokes some memories. I loved the odd Queen single back then (Seven Seas Of Rhye), a bit of Led Zep, singles by Lou Reed, Sabbath's Paranoid, and I preferred Yes over Genesis. Floyd, I never 'got'. My tastes have changed a lot over the years, but that is hardly the issue here. I was a pubescent young lad and found it all very exciting.

1973:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418J698JPXL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Who are these bozos? The Edgar Broughton Band, perchance?

With the two obvious exceptions, all people well-known in the UK (well, back then) who wouldn't mean anything to anyone in the US who wasn't a Macca fan.

Ah well, I was just doing a bit of sarcasm. Your reply, sir, is, however, quite cryptical... :-\

i have  loot of trouble getting into the music of this time.   a lot of the songs meander too much for me.

That is why I'm not a Yes fan anymore. 'Nous Sommes Du Soleil' wanders. And boy, can they wander...

Other (now considered classic) albums that came out in 1973:

Stevie Wonder - Innervisions
Tom Waits - Closing Time
John Cale - Paris 1919
Todd Rundgren - A Wizard, A True Star
John Martyn - Solid Air
David Bowie - Aladdin Sane
Bruce Springsteen - The Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle
Little Feat - Dixie Chicken
Roxy Music - For Your Pleasure
Bob Marley & the Wailers - Catch a Fire
The Who - Quadrophenia

A very adventurous and varied year, I think "Holland" stands up well to each of these (and the ones mentioned before), and fits in perfectly well with its adventurous and slightly experimental character.

It's a little-known fact but That Band on the Run cover features two members of Wishbone Ash... and David Leaf...

More from 73

Countdown to Ecstasy- Steely Dan
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road-Elton John
Let's Get It On-Marvin Gaye
The Joker-Steve Miller
The Harder They Come-OST

I listened to Holland and most of the above a LOT....but didn't play Mt Vernon and Fairyway even monthly.

Sigh...look at all of that great stuff.  Those were the days. 

I think most any year eventually resembles this, though. Given enough time, the first-overlooked albums shine through, the slow burners have had a chance to heat up, and the hits have had time to prove their durability. The best eventually is remembered; most of the perceived shortcomings in modern music have more to do with us not having had time to develop critical detachment. (Not that the in-the-moment enjoyment isn't really important, too. And probably just as important, if not more so. Having fun is what it's all about anyway.)

I'll bump this thread in 20 years to see where we stand.

Sounds good. See you then.

I wished i'd been a pubescent young lad in that time period...

I'm surprised nobody mentioned what might well be Genesis' best studio LP that came out in 1973:

"Selling England By The Pound"

Dancing With The Moonlit Knight
Firth of Fifth
Cinema Show
I Know What I Like(In Your Wardrobe)
Battle Of Epping Forest

A Classic LP!

 Bri

Arriving smack in the middle of my college years, HOLLAND was a rather artistic occasion, an album that I could play for my DeadHeady roomate and could turn the ladies onto the Boys with and get them to go see them with me (especially with Blondie and Ricky's hipster cred). We were all terribly excited when they arrived at Harpur College for what turned out to be two shows in the gym (the huge outdoor event planned was rained out). I was hitchhiking to school (another era, kids...) and a Winnebago type van pulled over to pick me up. At the wheel was none other than Dennis Wilson, with a bevy of young student beauties already on the bus (and if memory serves, a piano...). What a great way to get to school.

When Holland arrived, it was the back cover that was so striking - that picture of Brian, turning around in the car. His face hadn't been in public much during those years, and it was a shock to see the - let's call it aggressive - look on his face, the length of his hair, etc. But it was the SOUND of Holland on lp that was so exciting at the time, with heady cuts like Steamboat, Trader, and Leaving This Town. And, of course, the great love song, Only With You (with its most sublime reading at Carnegie, '72, IMHO). The mini record felt like it was giving clues to the long lost Brian mysteries ( I remember a lady friend of mine in college went to Bellagio and talked about Tandyn being there and what a wild, anarchic mess it was...). I love the isolated tracks from PIED PIPER. And CALIFORNIA was such a rolling good time blast (other albums like the New Riders' POWERGLIDE and Poco's GOOD FEELING were around then too) after the beaks of eagles...

HOLLAND was a great record to get high to, with SELLING ENGLAND, DARK SIDE, and especially WIZARD saved for acid...

Sorry about that, "Selling England" WAS mentioned!

 Bri

Posts like this are why this board rocks.

And the endless die hards

Why isnt this story elaborated on in its own post? Hell, its own forum!

I can just picture that van bouncing up and down as it careened down the road...

I think music was starting to decline a bit by 1973 but it was still a fine year if you strayed away from certain areas of the top 40.
My favorite LP's of that year
Elvis Fool, and Raised On Rock
Jerry Lee Lewis The Session, and Southern Roots
Beach Boys Holland
McCartney Band On The Run
Stones Goats Head Soup
Ike And Tina Nutbush City Limits
Jackson 5 Get It Together
First Edition Monumentel (only a hit in New Zeland it is their hardest rocking album)
JB's Doin It To Death
Willie Nelson Shotgun Willie

Nice call. I could get really emotional by hearing good singles on AM radio then (well, I still can, but it has changed). I recall: 'Angie', 'Maggie Mae', 'Reason To Believe', 'Angel Fingers', 'See My Baby Jive', and also those great Gamble & Huff productions (Billy Paul, Three Degrees, and so on). And 'Amoureuse' by Kiki Dee was such an enduring favourite...

Glad you liked my selections. Now you have me wanting to pick out my favorite singles from the year.

Elvis-Raised On Rock
Jerry Lee Lewis-Drinkin' Wine Spoo-Dee O'Dee, No Headstone On My Grave
Jan Berry-Don't You Just Know It. (It's sloppy but I love to hear Jan and Brian having fun)
Beach Boys-Sail On Sailor, California Saga,
American Spring-Shyin Away
Bob Dylan-Knocking On Heavens Door-A Fool Such As I
Wings-Helen Wheels- Jet-Band On The Run
George Harrison-Give Me Love
Rolling Stones-Angie-Heartbreaker
Ike And Tina-Nutbush City Limits
JB's-Doin' It To Death-If You Don't Get It The First Time
James Brown- I Got Ants In My Pants-Down and Out In New York City-Think-Sexy, Sexy, Sexy-Stone To The Bone
Jackson 5 Get It Together
First Edition-Lena Lookie
Willie Nelson-Stay All Night-Shotgun Willie

I noticed that nobody has mentioned Mind Games by John Lennon. I am very fond of that album actually and find it very underrated. Check out "Out The Blue" or "I Know (I Know)" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Dark Side Of The Moon is probably the best album of that year but not my favorite Floyd album (that belongs to Piper of course!).

I was born in 1972 so I have no recollection of Holland other than hearing "Sail On Sailor" in the grocery stores. There are some really great songs there but they are very quiet and understated.

No worries, it's a great album. Genesis always get a slagging from a lot of people but they were head and shoulders above all the other prog bands in my opinion, by virtue of being all about the songs as opposed to just the solos and all that. I think fans of Brian and the Beach Boys would find much to enjoy in the music - particularly in relation to the interesting chord structures and melodies and multi-sectional long songs. Tony Banks was a big Beach Boys fan and you can certainly hear that in his compositions.

If people ask me what music is my favourite it's hard to mention The Beach Boys and Genesis without having to justify it afterwards as the 'average joe's perception of these bands is generally quite poor - The Beach Boys being a cheesy Surfing band and Genesis doing 'We can't dance' and all their terrible 80s stuff. I'm also a massive Queen fan, and again I have the same problem there - though fortunately not as difficult as a lot of their prime 70s stuff is pretty well known (Queen II being my favourite album of all time).

I'm still waiting for Genesis to reunite and take "The Lamb" on the road again.  Doubt Peter can fit into his Rael costume...   

Unfortuneately I don't think it'll ever happen as they seem to have spent too long dithering over it all...also it always comes up as doing 'The Lamb' but personally I would prefer the slightly earlier material overall to be revisited - again, don't think it will happen... ???

Two things would be needed for a full Genesis reunion

1) Phil would need successful spinal surgery and therapy because his backs blown and he can't drum anymore.
2) Peter would need a knock on the head sufficient enough to wipe the last 30 odd years of his memory because he's adamant that he doesn't wish to relate to the past.

Sorry to be a downer, I'd love to see Genesis reform if for no other reason than to stop them putting out anymore ghastly solo records!

An underrated but great album from '73 would be Roger McGuinn's solo debut. Best thing he'd done in years.

Holland is among my favorite albums ...period.   And oddly enough, in 1973, I was just discovering Surfs Up, and wouldn't hear the entire Holland album for a few years.   I was listening to Dead, Airplane/Tuna/Baron Von Tollbooth, A new band called the Eagles, Neil Young et al.  A lapse in my Beachboy fandom. But I DID joyfully rediscover the Beachboys with the In Concert album as it was getting heavy airplay for a while on the hip album oriented stations in the Baltimore/DC area.

In retrospect, Holland is among the very best of its era and maybe the only thing I still listen to from that time with any regularity.  It is hard for me to connect with the fact that it was that good, that late in the game for the band.  I much prefer it to Sunflower or Surfs Up or any thing thereafter (with the possible exception of Love You).


The Beatles were disbanded, Stones were doing Goats head Soup ..yeeech!, and Neil Young was heavy into his burnout phase......and the Beachboys released this gem in the middle of the train wreck that pop was becoming at the time.

More amazing, ......just around the corner was Endless Summer...and the end of such beauty and creativity.

That knock in the head would also have to convince Peter that he's british again...he's been a "world" musician for so long now...doubt he still relates to the absurdist humor of the old days.

Somebody mentioned "A Wizard, A True Star" earlier.  I love that era of Todd Rundgren. 

I do believe that Matt-Zeus hit it right on the head!
Him and I both share the Genesis/Beach Boys as our 2 favorite bands. And the Genesis I'm talking about is anything BEFORE "Duke"(which was their last real Genesis LP).
It's the structure of the chords and song craftsmanship by Brian Wilson and Tony Banks/Mike Rutherford/Steve Hackett that actually make these two bands very "akin" to one another.
But above all...........it's the Heartfelt EMOTION that both bands bring to their music that has always been the real draw to myself.

 Bri

A lot of people on here are saying that music went way down hill after 1973. Well, on the one hand, I think that it was the end of one of the greatest eras in music. The psychadelic/proggressive era was one of the most creative times in music. But the mid 70s saw something different on the horizen. Bands like Queen, ELO, Devo, The B-52s, U2, REM, etc all had something fresh and new to say. And I could easily start another thread comparing Love You to other albums in 1977.

Anyway, I am pleasently suprised the Holland received considerations for album of the year! I really like Holland, but I don't think it stands up to Dark Side. I do think it stands up to Band on the Run and Mind Games.

Blondie Chaplin summed up what I feel in an interview. He said that Holland was better then So Tough. But the direction the Beach Boys were going (with Chaplin/Fataar and Carl as producer) was not fully realised. It only had two years to develop. Pacific Ocean Blue gives a good idea of what the next album might have sounded like had they continued to move forward.

I would put Queen as my absolute favourite with the BB, Led Zeppelin and Genesis in joint second. I always thought Queen were (to be simplistic) a cross between the BBs and Zeppelin early on. There are many parallels between Queen and Genesis too, particularly in regard to the division of their 70s and 80s work, though I find Queens 80s work a lot more palatable than Genesis'!

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Genesis continued to be great up thru Genesis in '83.  Invisible Touch in '86 had some okay moments, but was a little obvious and massively overexposed. 

The real career killer (imo) was We Can't Dance in '91.   

Oh yeah I actually quite like Invisible Touch as it was the first Genesis album I ever heard when I was very little - it's a great 80s pop album - to me WCD as you rightly point out is the low point.

I rarely listen to them anymore but Queen firmly remain in my top 10 all time groups. Their 1973 debut was pretty good and I consider Queen 2 to be a masterpiece, it's one part metal, one part Brian Wilson, set to Tokienish lyrics.

Queen's 80's albums were hideous but even then they always managed to write a couple of good singles for each one and were amazing live.

Queen 2 is indeed a masterpiece IMO, the whole thing is great, the first 3 songs sets it up but it's side two which really shows just how brilliant a writer Freddie was, the whole thing is fucking genius.

I know some people are down on their 80s stuff but there are plenty of gems in there, I think it was a lack of inspiration, indifference, drugs, band infighting, the changing pop scene, technology etc which meant they had to change. I think there's a handful of really great songs on each album from Hot Space (really underrated) up through to Innuendo. 1989s The Miracle I think is their weakest album but there's still some fun bits on it.

Freddie was a great songwriter up until the late 70's then the parties, coke and male orgies really seemed to sidetrack him creatively. Notice how it was Roger and John "the background two" that wrote practically all the 80's hits.

Freddie wrote some cool '80s songs, too, though, if not necessarily hits. But he has been quoted in interviews (around the time of his solo album) as saying he just didn't have the patience to work at songs at that point: if it wasn't going to come right away, fuckit. And frankly, that's how a lot of (but not all) 1980s Queen sounds to me. Here's an idea, ok, good enough. Done.

"Ringo" LP by Ringo Starr...

Arguably his best...

MD...

As an aside, am I the only one who thinks that the Beach Boys were absolutely crazy to think that the whole ecological/political angle on Surf's Up and through to Holland would get them mainstream respect? I wasn't alive at the time, but when I hear music from the early 70s, I don't see where ecology and politics were a major factor on the charts. I hear that 70s funk vibe creeping in, more 'rock ballads', more dramatic performances with more theatrics, and a syrupy sheen coating everything.

Adding a more funky contingent to the band was a good idea, but the raw, rustic feels on So Tough and Holland don't sound radio-friendly to me (except for "Marcella", but they took too long to release it as a single, going with "Mess of Help" instead). It doesn't have that sheen you expect on your typical Hot 100 topper. Don't misunderstand me,  I like the direction they were taking musically, but it didn't seem mainstream. I guess they were going for the artsy crowd, but did attracting that smaller crowd really translate into a lot of record sales? And why the artsy crowd? It was like the BBs biggest long shot after the late 60s, but they went after it. It's like they still couldn't get over their failure with SMiLE psychologically. 6 years had gone by and it's like they wanted that '66 hippie crowd!  Maybe people were wearing bell-bottoms, but they didn't have the radical mindsets of that era.

And the politics/ecological commentaries on Surf's Up... are you kidding me? Did they expect people to sing "Don't Go Near the Water" in their homes? Again, I love the music, but the lyrics are absolutely silly by most people's standards. If you can't play a song for your friends without them scratching their heads or laughing, I'm sorry, but you have to accept that it's silly. "Feel Flows" should of been a single, I think, except they messed up with Jack's overly esoteric lyrics. Tone it down, Jack, we get that you're intelligent already, but not even James Joyce was this willfully confusing. Can anyone tell me what that song means, beside that I need to feel things flow?

Again, I love these albums, but if I was their manager, I would have told them that they were flushing their careers down the toilet, and fast. They were better off taking their Sunflower approach and making it even more mature in terms of lyrical concepts. Dennis managed to combine very mature musical and lyrical concepts with "Forever", and the BBs messed it up again by not pushing it as the lead single. At the same time, I can't fault them for picking "Add Some Music", as it was actually pretty good from a maturity concept (could've been a 3 Dog Night song!) and was written by Brian. I think their image is what held it back. Had they persevered with more songs like that, I think they would have eventually broken through. In my opinion, what had hurt them the most in the last few years before Sunflower in terms of public approval was Brian's goofy innocence. I like the concept of the song "Friends", but do you see Joe Sixpack singing along when it comes on his radio? Probably not.

Should have hired me as a manager!

I wasn't alive at the time either, but the late 60s and early 70s were when ecological awareness was taking off. I'm not saying it was top of the charts, but remember, they were going for top of the charts via coolness. And coolness? Yeah, i'd say ecological awareness was in that vein. It was the post-hippie but still back-to-earth kind of vibe. Wasn't the first Earth Day in 1970? And that is when in the U.S. the first modern environmental legislation was passed (under FUCKINGNIXON!).

Go back and research the LP and singles charts in the early '70's. Ecological and politically themed releases like Marvin Gaye's "Mercy Mercy Me (The Ecology)" and CSNY's "Ohio" were definitely a major factor on the charts. Was it a good idea for the BB's to follow suit? In a few cases it worked and in a few it was pretentious. But to say those themes were not commercially viable in those days really proves you weren't around...and that you don't research your points.

Note to self: don't forget to research before posting on message board. ;)

@Luther

Lots of people pose questions here looking for answers; hopefully factual. A little research goes a long way. I was in the 13-16 years old range during the 1970-1973 period. Top 40 radio may not have been all ecological/political, but FM radio sure was. That was the hip thing to sing about. At that point in The Boys' career, that was where they were aiming their sites. Surf's Up and Holland both fared decently because of it. When you compare how well Friends, 20/20 and Sunflower did, I would say they pretty much made the right move going in that direction. Overall though, I think their live act helped more than anything else. They were especially good from 71 through 73. They could rock the house.

I think either you think I was asking a question about the ecological messaging (which I wasn't) or you're missing that I'm joking around with the "research" thing (which I was).

I figured that you were teasing Jon. I took it as a half joking, half meant it, type of remark. I'm glad it was whole joking. ;-)

I want to point out here that back then, Jack Rieley and Dutchman Machiel Botman released an eco-themed album that is pretty good, according to AGD (Andrew, I hope I remembered this rightly). It was quite pretentious, but got good reviews at the time. It was called 'Western Justice'. If I am right, Carl was involved in some way or another. I will do a bit of research soonish on this topic. I'd guess the album was ahead of its time.

The Western Justice album was even reissued on CD a couple of years ago. Never heard it, though. I always imagine it to sound like a cross between "The Trader" and Neil Young.

It's easy  :) go to: http://www.western-justice.com

Carl's not mentioned in the list of those involved. However, I was quite surprised to see Roxy Music's Eddie Jobson there, and producer John Leckie in a much younger incarnation.

Western Justice is ok. I'm not overly impressed but it's worth hearing as a curo. There are some photos in of underage nudes. That was a little creepy.

I'd say that back then '60s ideology was still going strong. Underage nudes wouldn't be accepted nowadays. Back then, discussions about legalizing paedophilia were doing the rounds, also about taking away legal restrictions re: the age of consent. Strange days indeed...

Legalising paedophilia? Proof positive that people were taking too many substances in the early 70's!

Don't know. Those were other times; I think the world nowadays, despite its many problems, has a more sober and healthy outlook on these matters. Then, you also had very dubious porn (re: the age of the female models), normally available in street shops. Group sex was fully accepted, and I don't even want to know how many marriages were destroyed by that, not to mention the number of children that were burdened with psychiatric problems for the rest of their lives by their swinger parents... :(

I believe that they were very succesful in changing their image. They went from being surfing Dorris Days in 1970 to a very hip underground band in 1971.  Not that images are always real, but they did get some minor hit songs and underground radio play around that time. I believe that one more album after Holland could have put them back into the mainstream. Of course they did with Endless Summer. But imagine if they had also released a proggressive album that was a big hit at the same time! 2 Different mainstream audiences at the same show. Could've been crazy!

I think that is more or less correct, and I think it's probably the very source of frustration that Carl and Dennis felt in the post-Endless Summer period. They had put a lot of work into moving into a new direction only to see it at least diluted if not abandoned after the success of those mid-1970s greatest hits re-releases. They didn't abandon new directions and creativity by any means, but neither did they commit to them. To me, that kind of schizophrenic messaging is hard to overcome, even if (especially if?) you've got the history and hits of the Beach Boys.

I think they pulled off an image change pretty well in the early '70s. It didn't give them top 10 hits again but it did give them critical repsect once more and helped them fill out live venues again. Remember a year or two earlier they where struggling to pull in a few hundred fans at shows. Many big sixties groups had bit the dust by this point. I don't feel the whole 'eco thing' was fad chasing - more like a direction they where helping establish. Heck, they had to sing about something, why not the beauty/fragility of mother Earth?

They also looked cool - compare the shots from the 20/20 period where Bruce, Carl and Al looked total geeks and Mike in those robes.   :-D

Things only look "geeky" if you are in another "time zone," as it were.  Those 20/20 clothes were "hip" which sounds like a geeky term in 2010 - (never mind 2020!)and 20/20 was the 20th Boys' album.  They were quite fashionable and if you look back to see what the other rock stars were wearing, it was very "London-driven" style.  And finally they would be "out of uniform" - and wearing what pleased them as individuals and not "Stepford" guys.     

And 20/20 is also metaphor for looking in the rear view mirror "of life" when you get a clear shot view of your mistakes;   That "duh" moment when your perspective becomes clear.  And it had the "eye chart" on the inside...It was an unusual title for an album without a song entitled "20/20"  but did have some very cool songs, like Do it Again, Bluebirds, and Cottonfields.   

Not unlike another poster who mentioned he was in college wooing the girls with the  Boys music, I was in grad school and just in my first teaching job when Holland arrived.  AGD had an interesting perspective in that they were in Holland singing about California...and testimony to the fact that sometimes you have to "leave, to come home" again.  It was not long after my first trip to Europe (Greece) and the opportunity to get a look at European fashion trends in the connecting airports of Gatwick and Shannon.   

Some of the Holland music is "yearning and tortured" yet probably too "intimate" to be fodder for singles such as Leaving this Town (on the 73 concert album,) Only with You, but I do love Sail on Sailor, The Trader (which had a powerful anti-colonialism message) and Funky Pretty...

Holland was probably too "artistically dense" for a lot of people to "lock onto" unless they were already Boys fans and ready to be lead in another creative direction.  And they were "serious" times in the US.  We had an American President step down and the troops started coming back from Vietnam, which probably opened the door to the commercial resurgence of American popularity with the bicentennial of the country in 1976.   For fans, it was a "Yahoo!!!" moment.     

Didn't the critics like Sunflower, too? Or am I wrong? According to the article I'm looking at, Rolling Stone is gushing over Sunflower. You're right, they improved as a live act in the early 70s, and that did pay dividends. But I think it was the improvement in performance that mattered more than the change in material. No, they couldn't have just done songs like "Surfin' USA" and "Fun, Fun, Fun" in the early 70s, but mature, romantic songs and personal songs such as we see in Sunflower would've fit. No, it might not have attracted as much of the college crowd, but I don't think that was a huge segment commercially. Or am I wrong?

Holland did go silver though, which Sunflower never did. Holland charted higher, too. Was 1970 just a bad year, though? Bad promotion? Or was it really just the material? A Wild Honey & 20/20 reissue and a Friends & Smiley Smile reissue both charted in '74, with Wild Honey/20/20 hitting 50.  The BBs were still getting top 30 hits until mid-69, when "Breakaway" only hit 63, their last Capitol single (and as such may not have been promoted as well as it could have been). Then, they were on a new label. Whose to say they weren't failed by the label?  Just wondering out loud.

I would go back to the poor promotion of Pet Sounds (in the USA). As the Beach Boys were changing, Capital put more promotion into the greatest hits. But then they did do a good job with Good Vibrations and Smile. But in 1968 they were considered the #1 surfs group. Not really what they were doing at the time. It also didn't help that they were still wearing matching suits in 1969. Sunflower was great, but their public image was still of the passed. Even the media couldn't change that. I believe it was there improved live shows that helped them overcome their image. Touring with the Grateful Dead may have converted some Dead heads into BB fans.