The Smiley Smile Message Board

That's what this topic is for.

1. Wrote the hook for "Good Vibrations". Honestly, without his bass hook, does the song become as big of a hit? No.
2. Beyond even his vocal performance, I'm pretty most of "All I Wanna Do" was written by Mike Love. If you look at the chords, most of the lines just switch between two chords, which is the hallmark of Mike Love songwriting. It looks like Brian took the chords, added some sevenths, and made an arrangement.
3. He inspired "Do It Again".
4. He brought Transcendental Meditation to all of the BBs. You can call Al Jardine a square, but he's been to far out places in his mind where bubbles and ripples float. Have you? And all thanks to Mike Love.
5. Mike Love, for better or worse, has been the bedrock of the BBs. No way would they have made it as a group into the 80s without Mike.
6. Came up with hooks and lyrics for the early hits.
7. Turned "Kokomo" into an insanely catchy song with his additional hooks. What, you don't like "Kokomo"? Brian Wilson thinks it's a great song.

Continue, please...

He has good taste in turbans.

Nice thread.

I personally love Mike because he stuck it all out. The highs and lows, and he was always there with a pen ready to write.

Oh and "Sumahama"

10. He made a serious effort to get Brian to write in the late 70s, early 80s. Some people may not like the results, but he tried.

11. His name is ripe for punning, which he knows all too well...

let the wind blow
his absence on Friends LP   ;)
Big Sur

Mike's great, what's not to Love?  ;D

Mike's vocal on 'I Just got My Pay' is sublime.

Another vote for the sumptuous 'Sumahama'.

Another vote for the lyrics to 'Good Vibrations' — the early version is terrible imho, and should've been left off BWPS.

'All I Wanna Do' is either a 2:37 mystical experience or the musical equivalent to sharing a warm chocolate bath with Eva Longoria.


Like him or loathe him he is highly entertaining, and that is what the business is all about.  :hat

Yup, he has character, even though it's often bad character, which is very hard to teach somebody, or for someone to develop.  He's corny, he's cheesy, he's a fucking musical force!!!!

I'll tell you another thing too, when he sang things like the first line to "Little Deuce Coupe" or "409" he was COOL, yet another thing that can't be faked :)

I always thought that he had the best look. Clothes, beard, etc. Also, I am glad that he was a Beach Boy because other wise we might have had to put up with him as a stand up comedian.

Imagine a Beach Boys live show without Mike. Would be a bunch of guys behind instruments and mic stands without anyone really moving or saying much. Would be pretty dull. Mike's the only one (maybe apart from Dennis when Ricky played drums) who really acted as a frontman.

He's kissed girls and liked it.  ;D

Another reason: he talked about wanting to kill Landy on national TV. And it looked like he had tears in his eyes.

I'm particularly fond of his rant at the Hall of Fame.  I never understood why people didn't like that.  That's the epitome of Rock N' Roll.  

Look, they told Mike they were going to induct him and his friends into the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame.  So he showed up, drunk off his ass like any proper rock star, and proceeded to get beligerant and insult a bunch of people in attendance.  What's the problem?  

"And I think it's wonderful to be here tonight, but I also think it's sad that there are other people who aren't here tonight. And, uh, those are the people who have passed away, those are the obvious ones. But the other not-so-obvious ones are people like Paul McCartney, who couldn't be here tonight because he's in a lawsuit with Ringo and Yoko. That's what he sent a telegram to some, uh, high priced attorney in this room, you know. And that's a bummer, because we're talking about harmony, right, and the world. If we can't get it together in America and in England, and harmony within our groups. I mean, beleive it, you can beleive it the Beach Boys have their own "interstescene" (not sure what Mike is trying to say here, and neither does Mike) or whatever you call it, squabbles. But that's a bummer when Ms. Ross can't make it, you know?" "The Beach Boys have continued to do, about, we did about 180 performances last year. I'd like to see the Mop-Tops match that! I'd like to see Mick Jagger get out on this stage and do I Get Around versus Jumpin' Jack Flash, any day now. And I'd like to see some people kick out the jams, and I challenge the Boss to get up on stage and jam. (during Mike's pause, someone in the house band plays the theremin line of "Good Vibrations" during the crowds tepid response) I wanna see Billy Joel, see if he can still tickle ivories, lemmee see. I know Mick Jagger won't be here tonight, he's gonna have to stay in England. But I'd like to see us in the Coliseum and he at Wembley Stadium because he's always been chickenshit to get on stage with the Beach Boys."

I mean I love Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, and Diana Ross, and Billy Joel, but that was awesome.  

In your own mind it was. :whatever

It wasn't so much "rock-star drunk" as "deadbeat father drunk".

All This is That

The last line of Cabinessence -- no one has done it better.

And his anchoring the girls-in-bikinis/fast cars/American flag/love of $$$/Republican politics/clean-living pole of the Beach Boys has made it possible for their story to be epic and powerful, iconic and symbolic of the tensions, aspirations, and struggles of the baby boomers, and, beyond that, of America and the West in general.

I'm pretty sure Brian wrote the bass line on Good Vibrations.  Mike just put words to it.  I'll give him credit for the lyrics, not the hook.  :p

I do like the sound of Mike's voice when he used to sing in "pretty" mode.  Somebody already mentioned "All I Wanna Do".  Like him on "Meant For You" and "Airplane" too.  I'm sure there are other good examples I'm forgetting.  

He's also an important part of one of the most amazing vocal blends in the history of pop music.  His bass always sounded great to me (except maybe his goofy voice on live renditions of "Heroes and Villains").

On some levels, I also appreciate his abrasive sense of humor.  

"California Girls are pregnant"!!!! ;D ;D

I respectfully disagree.

gotta admit I might act him a bit when I sing Beach Boys karaoke   :-D

Yes. All Mike did was write "I'm pickin' up Good Vibrations, she's givin' me excitations". BFD.

I think Mike got more credit than he deserved for co-writing songs . He walked away from court with no resistance. "Wouldn't It Be Nice" is a good example. Ask Tony Asher.

Mike wrote some real good lyrics for the "Today" and "Wild Honey" albums. I'll give him that. And the two notes he played on the sax on "Shut Down".

There's a list of negative things that Mike Love has been responsible for, along the lines of being a jerk. But the biggest thing he's done to counter that and redeem himself is to spread the word of Brian throughout the world for almost 50 years. He's helped to bring a lot of joy to people over the years and hung in there with the Mike & Bruce show. Now.........if he would let Al Jardine and Dave Marks back in the band where they belong, I'll have a more positive opinion of Mike Love.

I'd personally like to give thanks to Mike Love because if he hadn't grown that humongous ginger beard back in the day I'd have to think of another online name to use on this site.  Whats that? You thought that was my real name??   ::)

The cynic in me wants to start a 'Reasons to Hate Mike Love' thread and compete with this one....  >:D

He was kind enough to spare the world his country album. On second thoughts, actually I want to hear it really bad but for all the wrong reasons!

for more material to make fun of him for? that's a good reason   ;D

Are you sure Mike didn't write the verses?  I always heard that was mainly him. 

Yes, Mike wrote the lyrics to the verses.

I'll bet a donut that if Denny had given the exact same drunken rant at the HOF, it would still be revered as a great rock and roll moment.

I wish Brian would have had him sing more with his singing voice instead of so much with his "teen" voice. But maybe those songs wouldn't be as distinctive even today if he had.

Here's one I don't know if has ever been mentioned, it's more about Brian but it's Mike.

On "God Only Knows"... you've got 4 or 5 (whoever it is.. Carl, Brian, Bruce, probably Al, don't know if I hear Dennis) singing like Angels.  They have the most beautiful voices ever. 

So what to do with Mike?  Brian could have Mike try to sing 'pretty' which I suppose he was capable of doing, but Mike was always best being the braggadocio lead singer with all the swagger... that's what he's naturally good at.

So in this beautiful, perfect song, Brian has Mike sing the bridge (I guess that's Mike, right?... and I guess that's the bridge? hard to tell with Brian) in that swagger.  Right in the middle of one of the greatest love songs of all time, "Bom ba bom ba ba ba baaaa, baaa, baa bom baa... " or whatever.  Instead of sticking out like a sore thumb, it sounds completely natural and helps the song IMHO.  One of the best parts of the song?  Probably.

...but Mike's an ass. 

Oh gotcha, I think they were just discussing the bassline in the chorus.  Great lyrics, plus Mike invented a word.  I will never use said word, but he did invent a word. 

You know, I remember the first time I heard Tony Asher's lyrics to Good Vibrations on a radio special called "The Best Summers Of Our Lives" in 1976. They played the alternate lyrics and after hearing the released Good Vibrations for so many years, it was like a revelation. I played the cassette recording of that thing over and over again. I dunno what it was - it's my all-time favorite Beach Boys song and the different lyrics just added to the enjoyment and mystique of it. So much work went into that song. As Brian once said, "It was the biggest production of our lives".

I always wondered if it was Brian who chose Mike's lyrics over Tony's or if Mike insisted that his lyrics be used, especially since Tony's were used on most of Pet Sounds. I like both sets of lyrics - they're both very good. I guess I really like Brian's vocal with Tony's lyrics, whether they were guide vocals or the final deal.

His vocal on Meant For You
Big Sur

Tony's lyrics were dropped for one outstanding reason - they were never more than placeholders, dummy lyrics, never intended to be heard. I know this for a fact - some dude called Asher told me.  ;D

Well Mr. Doe, to an average bloke off the street like me, I really like those dumby lyrics. They make nice placeholders on my coffee table. It's a matter of taste I guess, but maybe there's a good reason that Brian used those never-intended-to-be-heard lyrics on his SMiLE album.

Quick points.

1.) Mike's lyrics to GV are some of his finest.

2.) Asher's aren't terrible, but they pale in comparison to Love's.

3.) I don't think it was Brian's decision to use those original lyrics on BWPS, and he doesn't sing them in concert.

4.) As stated earlier, Mike didn't exactly write the "hook" to GV. He wrote lyrics to the song's bass line, which Brian then decided to use as the chorus.

If he had, I'd bet two donuts he'd have thought of something a bit less impotent and nonsensical than what Mike said. You know, the kind of thing that would've made Elton John say "Why the FODA didn't he mention me?".

If Denny had come out with the RRHF speech, i too would think Denny was a moron. Simple as.

I'll take your two donuts because that wouldn't have been the "exact same drunken rant ". Thanks. And hypehat gets my donut apparently but I still stand by the assertion.

Mmm, donuts ;D Although you have a point, it would have probably been brushed off as 'Oh, Dennis...'

But seriously, the speech is stupid. From my understanding, he calls out the Beatles for not doing 200 shows a year, apparently forgetting that they hadn't done a show since 1966 and some git shot their rhythm guitarist, and then takes it upon himself to utter the immortal challenge 'I'd like to see The Boss come up on stage and jam'. Cos, y'know, Bruce just doesn't ROCK like the mid 80's Beach Boys do....

At least if Dennis did it, you could probably blame it on too much complimentary champagne, but if we assume Mike was his usual sober self (Mr 'TM in the AM and PM'), he has to be a complete fool.

Oh, Mike...

EDIT: I felt, in the interests of fairness, I should add that I find this speech utterly hilarious and wish to see video of it someday before I die.

I think the point some are missing is that nobody agrees with Mike.  I don't.  I'm just saying it takes a lot of balls to get up there and make that big of an ass out of yourself.  You have to be a special kind of person to be so out of touch that you actually believe your own hype.  It's the same reason I absolutely love Oasis.  Mike's an idiot.  True. Mike's an ass. True.  Mike did something SO FUCKING MEMORABLE at the rock and roll hall of fame that nobody remembers anything anybody else said that year.  People still talk about it.  Badly, but they still talk about it.  I've never said anything in my life anybody talks about.  He showed up ready to play.  LOL.  It's incredible that he got so beligerant that he would dare to diss Diana Ross, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, The Beatles, and the Rolling Stones all before he got his microphone cut.  Who else has ever done that?  I mean that's incredible. 

OH, I'd like to add too, he *IS* the lead singer of one of the greatest bands of all time, I mean it's not a stretch to put the Beach Boys on the level of The Beatles, the Stones, the Supremes, orBilly Joel.  So he kind of has some clout... and then for THAT GUY to say that sh*t, that's incredibly messed up. 

I mean I could get on stage and run my mouth, but nobody would care.  Oh, the guy from Maroon 5 could get on stage and diss all those people, and everybody would just say he's a nobody... but if the lead singer of one of the biggest bands in the world calls out other bands... that's kind of major.   

That is incorrect. Brian sang those original lyrics to Good Vibrations many times live since the release of BWPS.

My take on it was that it was just a novel thing to do (do the BWPS original lyrics), so Brian did it.  Just a little something to make the song a little different than the other times he's performed it.  Even when he sings it with Mike's lyrics, he usually adds the "Hum, Be Dum" part near the end that's kind of smile-ish. 

At the time,.... Brian was ABSOLUTELY calling the show.  He wouldn't have included lyrics he didn't want to (I'm talking '66 when it was recorded). 

Regarding Mike Love's famous speech at the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. Al Jardine was interviewed by Ken Sharp for Goldmine magaine in 2000. I thought Al's perspective was interesting:

Q: Let's go back to the Beach Boys' induction into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. It was a bittersweet night. It was an amazing honor that was lessened by Love's bizarre speech. What are your memories of that evening?

A: It was one of the early inductions. It was such a monumental event because of the magnitude of the stars that were there. It made us feel almost humbled by it. It was the Beatles, Bob Dylan, The Surpremes, The Drifters who were inducted. So many great stars. John Fogerty was there, Mick Jagger, Jeff Beck, Bruce Springsteen, Elton John, who inducted us, Billy Joel, Paul Simon. The stage was so jammed when we did the jam session at the end that I didn't even run into Paul Simon. It was awesome to be inducted. It was a mixed pleasure. Brian opened up with a speech of his own, written by his surrogate father, Gene Landy. The nutty professor, Gene Landy, who ended up writing a book with Brian. He scripted everything Brian did and said, so it was a little bit unusual and stilted. There were words there that Brian never uses in his speech. I could tell that. Then Mike was just dying to get to the microphone. As we were leaving the stage it seemed as if - Carl was trying to get us off the stage so the next artist could get inducted. Bob Dylan was waiting in the wings. Mike just drifted back to the microphone telling everybody how f***ed it was that people that were still living weren't there, like McCartney. I'm not really sure what to this day he was trying to accomplish other then maybe the politics of the record business were not to his liking. But this was not an event to discuss the politics of the record business. That's a discussion you have at another time.

Q: Were you, Carl and Brian embarrassed or just plain angry by his speech?

A: Of course, both. I remember meeting Dylan backstage and Bob saying, "What's going on?" [laughs] He said, "I'm sure glad he didn't mention me." [laughs]

Q: When you returned to your table, did you say anything to Mike about his wacky speech?

A: He was sitting next to Muhammad [Ali] so I didn't want to start anything. [laughs] Just kidding. But I immediately went over to George [Harrison] and Ringo and I said, "Geez, guys, I really want to apologize for that speech. My partner's not feeling to well." I said something to that effect. [laughs] They put their heads on my shoulder. That was really touching. When I was leaning down between them Ringo just kind of came over and put his head next to mine. He said, "Oh that's okay, we love you guys." George did the same thing. They were really nice.

Periodically, in concert, the Beach Boys did that "Hum De Dum" part at the end of Good Vibrations.  Check out the famous Perth, Australia show from 1978 where Carl had too much to drink. Brian sang that part at the end of Good Vibrations. I love that part! First time I heard that was also on that radio show in 1976.

He sang it that way in some of the BWPS shows, I believe. But the times I've seen him live since (that is, 06 to the present), he's used the Mike lyrics.

Trust me the man is a gent !! after an initial chat in a certain Hotel in the East Of England (and a break of some 20Mins) Mike signed everything I had (he made sure he did , honest) and we even talked about his cousin Brian etc.. for the best part of half an hour in a very relaxed situation during a brief UK Tour in 2003 (????) serious what a great guy (I told AGD about this at the time  which he said was quite a coup) , possibly my best time of being a BB's fan :-)))  

I saw a girl on Facebook who had quite a few pictures with Michael. And she got AWFULLY close too. One of them had her sitting in his lap!

Was it Patricia Ferrelli?  ;D

I thought it was just Brian, Carl and Bruce on God Only Knows?

Boom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZSAQX2uuUY

It may be, I always just assumed the middle part was Mike.  You know what happens when we assume.

Look, guys, I said reasons to love Mike Love. You want to talk bad about Mike Love's R&R Hall of Fame speech? Well, get out of the topic, buckwheat! Personally, I could care less about all of those Hollywood egos. Who cares if he said something potentially offensive to Bruce Springsteen or Mick Jagger? What does it even matter in the long run? You guys' obsession with that is so weird. It's like you're mad because he's stopping the BBs from being as cool as you want. The BBs aren't about being cool. They're about being raw and honest. Oh, and making good music. You take the good with the bad.

It's not just the speech, dude. It's also Mike interrupting Brian while he was trying to deliver his speech. Much less funny than when Kanye West did it.

Without Mike, the Beach Boys (as we know them) would never have formed, Pet Sounds as we know it would NEVER have been even thought of, and we would not have any bits of SMiLE to listen to AT ALL. Sure, Brian would have probably gone on to do wonderful things in the music business, but without Mike's drive to help form the band the history of Brian Wilson would look ENTIRELY different.

EVERY Beach Boys fan has everything to owe Mike....I mean, sure, I've called him a douche on several occasions, and yeah, I harbor some rude thoughts when someone talks about Mike Love and SMiLE in the same sentence, but deep down I know that The Beach Boys wouldn't be the same without him....just as if Dennis or Carl weren't a part of the group.

PS: and as much as I dislike 'Kokomo', it IS a well written song....seriously, the only reason I dislike it is because he rehashed that classic Beach Boys sound - had Kokomo been on the album 'Surfer Girl' I think we'd all thoroughly enjoy it.

'Course there is... and you know that reason as well as I do.   ::)

Google is a wonderful thing. YouTube too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YBqve7SjHs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YBqve7SjHs)

I swear last time i looked it wasn't there... thanks! Oh god.... this is magnificent.... 'The United States is only 6% of the worlds population.... which is why I came here with Muhammed Ali!'  ;D

And sorry for derailing the thread! I do find you have to work hard to love Mike Love

Thing about Mike is, yes, he can be hard work, but every now and them, he'll say or do something that has you falling over laughing... or going "y'know, he's right".

I agree. They all could be hard work sometimes and I would add fantastically easy sometimes. Of the 7 "core" Beach Boys I'd put Mike at around #4 in the hard work category but on the other hand [the first hand instead of second hand] I didn't know any of them.

I remember in Endless Harmony, I think, Mike is talking about Brian, and he says something like "Brian had this incredible ability -- still has, actually -- to arrange vocals."

And he just tossed it in there brusquely, like it wasn't a big deal, but it struck me that Mike still knows what's going on. And he's spotted the one aspect of Brian's talent that seems not to have changed or diminished one iota over the decades.

I have really liked Mike's hats that he's worn over the years. Especially the turban.

And the way he's tried to emulate Mick Jaggar with that swagger on stage.

I've never, ever, ever got the vibe (no pun intended) from Mike that he didn't think Brian was one of the most talented musicians alive.  All of Mike's comments, lawsuits, etc. always made logical sense to me, even though many times they were unnecessary or a rude or even mean thing to do.  I've never heard him slam Brian's talent.  Mike obviously loves Brian very much, anybody who's had 'tough' family members knows all about this. 

Did Mike's lawsuit regarding the Daily Mail CD make logical sense to you, Ron?

The lawsuit said the CD giveaway undercut the band's sales. Love sought damages, including "millions of dollars in illicit profits," and sought at least $1 million for international advertising "to correct the effects of unfair competition and infringing uses." He accused Brian of promoting his 2004 album, "Smile," in a manner that "shamelessly misappropriated Mike Love's songs, likeness and the Beach Boys trademark, as well as the 'Smile' album itself".

I think Mike lost that lawsuit, didn't he?  And I think at that point he lost a lot with his relationship with his cousin Brian.

OK, let's keep it positive here. I don't want to start any negativism.

Sure, that lawsuit makes logical sense.  Mike feels that he has to pay Brian money to use the Beach Boys name, but Brian doesn't have to  pay him money to use the Beach Boys to promote SMiLE.  I wouldn't have sued over it; but it does make sense.  Of course the court threw it out, so it didn't live up to what it needed to legally, but I can see where he's coming from.  I feel he was wrong to sue, but can see his point of view. 

Sad that you can't. 

You make good points, but I don't think it's sad that I can see Mike's relationship with Brian being compromised. I see it as jealousy. I see it as the nail in the coffin as far as any release of a Beach Boys Smile Sessions comp in the future. If a Beach Boys reunion doesn't happen with Brian included next year, I think the lawsuits are definitely factors in Brian's decision when he answers with an adament "No". When Mike filed the lawsuits, he said it was "nothing personal". I would like to be wrong when I say it was personal and that Mike knew exactly what he was doing.

I have no doubt that Mike loves Brian, is in awe of Brian's talent, has fond memories of being close to Brian when they were younger, etc. And I think Brian loves Mike, admires Mike's ability as a frontman, and has fond memories of being close to Mike when they were younger.

But if my cousin sued me--especially more than once--I would be pissed off too.

He doesn't "pay Brian money to use The Beach Boys name" - he pays BRI a percentage of the touring income in order to be able to use the name "The Beach Boys" as a condition of a license that he voted in favor of.

He is an inspiration and hero to the 'everyman'.

Proof that a balding ginga with a average vocal range can be a lead singer in a major rock and roll band.

I am shocked that no one has yet to mention / drumroll ..................................................................................................

 THE CHICKEN DANCE!!!

Come on Andrew, you know that's splitting hairs.  Does Brian receive a percentage of BRI's income?  Of course he does.  When Mike tours, he has to pay to use the name, and Brian gets a piece of that.  Mike was claiming in the lawsuit that Brian needed to pay to promote the cd that way.  Mike was wrong and got shot down in court. 

Excellent point.

I don't think though that Mike ever saw what he did as actually suing Brian but merely the "corporation" that represents him.

But of course, it's still a pretty good reason for Brian to feel offended.

Preamble: when I was in my teens, I thought for years that the guy on sleeve photos and whose real name is Al Jardine, was Mike Love. To complicate matters, I thought that the vocals I liked best (Brian's) were sung by the guy whose portrait was Al's, and whose name is Mike Love.

Yes, life was very tough. It got even worse when not one single girl in grammar school turned out to be even remotely interested in The Beach Boys. So: I perceived myself as a total geek, with an isolated, weird hobby. Not good, that. But on the other hand: more popular guys loved Elton John, Alice Cooper, Kiss, Deep Purple, and Led Zeppelin. Now that is a real disorder, I'm sure you all agree.

Back to Mike: although it is difficult, with his humour that I can't relate to, his clothes sense, his weird dancing, and his HOF speech, I try to empathize now and then. How would I feel if there was my cousin in the band, that I co-founded obviously, and put all that hard work on, and so much praise in terms of 'genius' would be heaped on that very cousin? Whilst I knew that he had all that talent? Sure, he was self-taught, but to me his ideas seemed to pop up in his head all of the time, seemingly costing not much effort. My cousin sometimes came over all lazy, not that interested, he'd just eat three steaks, and then leave?  (I exaggerate, folks...).

Possibly Mike had/has an inferiority complex that he overcompensates for. I do not really know. His jokes sound forced and directed at vulnerable Brian. Brian perhaps does not see the jokes for what they are. Mike has this obsession with all matters legal... I am thinking of the delay in the release of the Pet Sounds box set, and the non-appearance of the SMiLE box in 1997.

(Oh yes, the funniest thing in the HOF speech to me is the challenge to Bruce Springsteen...)

In Mike's defense: I believe that Mike never sued Brian because he thought Brian was taking advantage of him, only when he though that someone was taking advantage of Brian and in the process was hurting his own interests as well. Big difference.

He'd come off a lot better if he didn't wear all those silly hats, like the ridiculous one he wore at the HOF speech.  He's bald, bid deal.

Yup, didn't Mike supposedly give a big show in court with the copyright lawsuit, saying that he only wanted Brian to offer him a token amount and settle out of court, but all of his lawyers forced it to a decision costing Brian much more money?

How Myk comes off any more is irrelevant-his reputation is pretty much sealed in stone  and is what it is regardless of hats, jewelery, sandals, smelly jokes or Mick Jagger wannabe swagger. While Brian keeps moving forward, Myk is relagated to a fading career in a travelling juke box cover band. The only thing to look forward to with him(that is, if anyone cares) is how he plans to nuture his ego and line his pockets while still trying like Hell to keep hanging on to Brian's coat tails. >:D

The true mark of anti-Mike Love dementia - much like anti-liberal or anti-conservative dementia - is the inability to even spell his name correctly, usually as a pejorative.

Whilst I agree that Mr. Love's SMiLe lawsuit (and seemingly many of his other actions over the years) were ridiculous and petty, it's safe to say that neither you or I or most of the other people on this board know Mr. Love personally. We don't live with him day to day or even, I'm guessing, deal with him in person from time to time.

Perhaps remembering that we're all human - and that Brian, as awesome as he is, has made plenty of mistakes in his life as well, of a decidedly different stripe than Mike's - will help you to get over your anti-Love dementia.

Re. the copyright suit in the early 90s: I'd love to have more info because the only documentation I've seen [which is extremely little] shows Mike v. Irving Music, et al with et al listed as about 3 or 4 Irving subsidiaries plus 3 or 4  individuals [which I think I thought were lawyers] plus Brian. Don't know what that means or if there was another suit which did not show up. Anyone know?

Seconded, as for the last two paragraphs. Let me put it this way: if you try to make regular appointments with a friend, the first time he shows up drunk and disorderly, or fuelled by cocaine, is easy to forgive. The second time is a bit harder. I am the first one to say that Brian has a mental illness, but that is not my point. No one knew that back in the late '60s. I dare place a bet that Mike really tried to make it not too hard on him; but eventually the most patient of people, and the best of friends can't carry that burden anymore. Just imagine: Mike may have brought in decent new ideas and lyrics time and time again, only to discover that his cousin 'wasn't really there', figuratively speaking.

Yeah, kinda takes one back to the Smile days when Myk was right there with a whole lot of cooperation  for Brian-Pet Sounds, too.

When was Brian diagnosed with a mental illness, anyway? Although I don't know the timeline, I have it in my head that he was diagnosed twice: a first time that was incorrect and he was prescribed wrong medication, and a second time that did it properly and provided him with adequate meds. I hope I'm not making some sort of far-too-elaborate alternative history of the Beach Boys... :lol

Exactly, Don. Watching Brian spiral further and further into drug addiction must have been tough for Mike, not just as his collaborator but also as his cousin. I've dealt with similar situations and over time, it goes from heartbreak to frustration to anger and back to heartbreak. A true zero sum game. Imagining that happening in real time to a brilliant artist like Brian is heart-rending - then imagining it happening to one who is also your cousin and former creative partner seems to make it even worse.

Sure, Mike probably resented Brian for using other collaborators for Pet Sounds and SMiLe. He also didn't get SMiLe and may have contributed to its demise. In 2010 we can say "f*** him, he stood in the way of timeless works of art!" and we may be right. Then again, he is only human.  Carl and Al also stood in the way of SMiLe, and in the end, Brian stood in its way more than anyone else. Do we blame them for its demise?

Mike is not an artist on any level close to Brian. He knows that, we know it, my dogs even know it. He is, however, a talented vocalist and frontman, and a truly hard-working guy. He deserves that respect if nothing else. His questionable aesthetic and legal decisions are what they are, but he is not Satan by any means.

So, when OldSurferDude talks about how history has already decided that "Myk" is a total douche with nothing to offer, I have to respectfully disagree. Sure, he didn't support Brian when he should have (Pet Sounds and then SMiLe among other times) but Carl and Al are guilty of the same thing. Carl even queered the pitch with the awesome Landy sessions in the 90's. Why don't you badmouth Carl, OldSurferDude? Why don't you spell his name "Caruhl" or something to obliquely convey your distaste for him in a way that doesn't really make much sense, at least not in my native language (English) ?

My theory, OldSurferDude, is that you don't badmouth Carl for the demise of SMiLe, the joke the live Beach Boys became, the demise of the Paley sessions, and the onset of awful projects like Stars and Stripes because Carl is considered a better songwriter than Mike, he is a Wilson, he hasn't said a bunch of stupid bullshit in the press like Mike has (he has always seemed more circumspect than Mike) and he sued Brian for better reasons than Mike has. Plus, he is no longer with us.

Maybe i'm in the minority, but I like Brian, I like Mike, I like Al, I like Carl, I like Dennis, I like Bruce, and I like David.  If somebody could introduce me sonically to other members of the band I think i'd probably like them too.  Why dwell on anything negative anybody has said or done?  Who cares?  It wasn't done to you, and you don't know the half of it, so f*** it just enjoy the music.  If all you can find to Love about Mike is his hat, love him for his hat.  Don't keep bring up the same old sh*t and even going so far as to claim the final word on his reputation when you've never even met the man.  Mike's great!  God bless Mike Love.  Hold a grudge against Hitler and Bin Ladin, I have no grudge against musicians.

Indeed. One quality I believe Mike to have, or have had in the past, was his undying support toward the Beach Boys /as a band/, in a commercial sense. You can criticize him for ruining SMiLE and turning the Beach Boys into a corny oldies act all you want, but dammit, he believed in what he was doing, that this would help the Beach Boys in the end. Sure, he was mostly wrong, but hindsight is always 20/20. For the first one, he thought that SMiLE wouldn't be understood by the public, would result in the Boys' commercial failure. Who knows if that might have been the case? He turned them toward a revival of their old sound because he wanted them to be successful again, got Brian to write more songs once more. If Carl and the Passions or Holland hit the top ten, I'm not so sure he would've done it.

Well, you said it much better and more succinctly than I could - or did.


Curtis, absolutely right about hindsight being 20/20 and all that. It's also worth mentioning that Mike supported the Beach Boys through Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, 20-20, Sunflower, Surf's Up, CATP:ST, and Holland before he tried to turn them into the joke they eventually became. Do we ever hear stories about Mike saying Smiley Smile was "too far out?"

The reason the Mike hatred gets to me, aside from the obvious fact that he is one-fifth or sixth of the Beach Boys, is that I felt the same way when I was a fledgling Beach Boys fan. It's essentially an important part of the story that we're sold by the "Beach Boys establishment." Brian's the good one, Mike's the evil one, Dennis is the flawed but beautiful angel who died way too young, et cetera.

Now that I've been around the Beach Boys Block quite a few times, I've come to love all of the Beach Boys for their contributions to the music, and in Mike's case as well as Brian's, I choose to focus on the successes rather than failures.

Mike has made himself an easy target not entirely because of lawsuits and questionable decisions (actions shared in equal measure by Brian, Al, and Carl) but because he has long been the de facto leader of the Beach Boys, he has worked hard and survived, outliving two out of three Wilsons, and he never had drug use and abuse as an excuse for his bad decisions. Instead, he's only had the excuse that he is a human being like the rest of us doing what he can to get by.

So, getting back to what we love about Mike Love...

"All I Wanna Do." Mike's sense of humor (which is too sharp/dry for most American Beach Boys fans). "Cool Head, Warm Heart" being the best of the three Hallmark tunes, although I enjoy Spirit of Rock and Roll and PT Cruiser too. And, just to top it off, his leads on Pet Sounds, which are quite beautiful.

I would really like to agree with you guys. I understand that Mike did what he felt he should do back in the days, i know thats tough seeing your family fall apart, not to mention your business. Very delicate situation.

But then, i saw "The Beach Boys, An American Family". And i dont know, but why re-write history? I know its a "romanced" biography, but i mean, is there an excuse for that? I respect Mike Love  for his contributions to BB music, but thats all.

We all have our flaws, though. Its better to know them than to point them.

Is just me or do many of the Brian fanatics equivocate Mike bashing as a bizarre way of showing their support for Brian? You CAN like and respect both ya' know!

Love was a precursor to Stephen Colbert!

Mike was responsible for the cheerleaders, right? Did that cheapen the show at all? There was a point in the shows where the cheerleaders and Mr. T kinda took over the show. Al Jardine once called it a "three ring circus". Mike got real pissed at Al because Al called it a sideshow in a major magazine interview. Al says Mike was really embittered by that and that's when he started to re-invent the band.

More "anti Myke Luhv dementia"-No, we don't live with him day to day, but  all his EX-wives did-and Brian spent numerous days with him-funny, all have gone their own ways haven't they?? Of course we all know that couldn't mean anything-just coincidence...

Speaking of Myke Luhv dementia, where's Sheriff John Stone?

Well, I guess all my points went over your head. I'm not going to keep trying to hammer a square peg into the round hole of your psyche, except to ask how spelling his name differently is supposed to be an insult to him? Or is it just that you can't bear to spell his name the way he chooses to? I anxiously await your answer!

Speaking of psyche, why would one try to hammer a square...into..a..round...the  spelling of the name  references the subject appropriately-both are effed up. :p

So perhaps I can participate - how about Maihke Luvv? Or Mykke Loph? I guess you already hit on the really good ones, and now I'm just playing out the string with a pale imitation of your epiphets. As for why I would want to hammer a square peg into a round hole, it's because I like to waste my time on unimportant things - go figure!

Mr Surfer Dude, I share some of your anti-Mike Love sentiment.. I also love many things the man has done. Let me ask you how you feel about Dennis' many many ex-wives and people who he couldn't keep it together with? Do you judge him for that? What about Carl giving up on the Paley sessions, the last true potential Beach Boys reunion with two Wilsons?

The world isn't black and white, except for in Beach Boys revisionism land. You know I love you baby, I'd never hurt you. I just want to find out what makes Old Surfer Dude tick.

OK, on a positive note, I really, really like Mike Love's singing on the slow version of "Big Sur". That's a good one.

And I don't care what anybody says - I like "Brian's Back".  Anybody else have the same sentiments?

What else?

As sappy as "Brian's Back" may be Carl is a monster vocals wise on it.

Gotta agree. Carl's vocals are really what make the song really nice.  But Mike's parts ain't bad either.

Endless Harmony was on TV the other night on Sky Arts.

The Brian's back part really touched me, it was also the first time I said "That's not really a bad song"

Epiphets?? Now look at the pot calling the kettle black!! How dare you not spell that word correctly!Why, do you have something askew in your psyche that makes you hate that word-Well that's just not in the best interests nor is it fair to that particular word! You're just being hateful, that's all! :tm

Oh come on please tell me you didn't just say you let a VH1 movie change your opinion on Mike. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument#Argument_by_analogy

They're two completely different cases, and you know that. Plus, you completely ignored the second point he brought up. Obviously, though, you aren't taking the debate seriously, so I have no idea why I'm bothering.
 

,

Ron i just gave the 'main' reason why i dont ''love'' him, which by the way wasnt the movie but the need for someone to rewrite the past. And i personally think its kinda sad. But who cares?
That said, i respect Mike very much for his works, and All I Wanna Do is one of my all time favs, vocal and all.

Thanks Curtis. I don't know why I bothered either - perhaps just a defense against this place turning into the BlueBoard. Maybe if we begin speaking to him in emoticons it will get through, but somehow I doubt it.

Very good. I must admit that I fell into this trap quite a number of years ago. In my mind, Brian was a guy whose true potential was only realised for, say, 20% or so. And who was to blame for the other 80%? The guy who had, according to reports, his problems with Pet Sounds and the concept of Smile, of course! Nothing as good as a complete and unquestioned story, that's it.

Now I feel that Brian's psyche must be foremost seen as one, and indivisible. Which means: his gigantic talent and uniqueness have a darker side to them: extreme sensibility and vulnerability, and thus an appetite for self-medication (the use of drugs). To compare: people with schizophrenia (not Brian) in general have a lack of inhibitory capacities in their brain (imbalance in neurotransmitters), and the result is that they have unusually high capacities for association; this can lead to great abilities in language, pictural arts, and music, much greater than is seen on average. But it can also lead to delusions (paranoia, psychosis).

And that is Brian, one and indivisible. And Mike is certainly not guilty of Brian's incapacitation.

Indeed. Look at Syd Barrett, or Skip Spence. Both of them produced ground breaking albums before they went under, and they both made completely different, twisted albums, later. The 60's produced a lot of mental illness, and a lot of drug casualties. Both LSD and the green stuff can bring out mental illness in people that are already "in tune" for such a thing.

Thank you. Peter Green is also a name that comes to mind.

Simple answer! Lets start a "Why I love Dennis Wilson" thread and while we're at it we should do the same for Carl. I can give Carl a pass on giving up on the Paley sessions, but the real crown jewel is Dennis f-cking up Myke's karma on the  tv show and marrying Myke's daughter!

Dude, did Mike run over your dog or something?

:quote :woot :king :ninja :listening :kiss :brow :serenade :jedi :ahh :grouphug :drum :drunks :spin :bow :old :banana :happydance :tm :hug :love :drumroll :laugh: :psyche :angry :shrug :tiptoe :thewilsons :huh :beer :rock :ohyeah :wink :brian :thud 8o :wave :-* :poke :thumbsup :deadhorse :h5 :dennis :whatever :smash :violin :pirate. At least that's what I think. ;D

Come on now man, you didn't need to bring my family into it! Also, the part about "purple monkey dishwasher" was below the belt.

You don't have any idea how much of a dick you're making yourself look, do you ? About as credible as using textspeak, and just as juvenile.

2nd that.....

People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for people? It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not; it’s not going to change anything. Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out.

- Rodney King

That was a great reply-good sense of humor, b00ts :lol

Hey there! Was wonderin'when you. :kiss were going to stick your uppity nose into this-why don't you go back to your fact finding and mind your own business

Roky Whasshisname from 13TH Floor Elevators is another one.

It does make me laugh that (whever they where for self-serving reasons or not) Mike doing everything he could to try stop Brian from becoming a paranoid drugged up mess makes him a butthole apparently.

Didn't see this mentioned much, so here it goes:

He has one of the most vibrant bass voices I've ever heard.

"In an ocean or in a glass, cool water is such a gas."

One of my favorite moments in any Beach Boys song, ever.

 :)

Thought this should be posted in this topic, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2qE61E0i7s

See, even Mike can "take the piss out of himself", as the British say. I don't see Brian doing any long, exaggerated falsettos.

Mike co-wrote more #1 hits for The Beach Boys than Brian did.  :o

Okay, here's my take on the Lovester:

1. Mike Love wrote The California Myth. Not Tony or VDP.
2. Mike Love has kept The Beach Boys active for 49 years.
3. Mike Love has never left the Beach Boys, the only member who stuck it out all the way.
4. Mike Love has made baseball caps cool, and I don't really like baseball caps.
5. I have never seen Mike without a cap, but I know someone who has.
6. Sumahama
7. Big Sur
8. Cool Head, Warm Heart
9. He can sing in three different registers.
10. The best goshdarn lyricist Brian ever worked with.

Roky Erikson, Daniel Johnston, Jeff Mangum...

He's just a pretty cool guy imho.