The Smiley Smile Message Board

Listening to the Sundazed 3 disc Ballroom/Millennium set, in the liners of which Gary Usher is quoted as saying:

"No-one was more at the cutting edge of what was going on than Curt Becher. There was no comparison between Brian Wilson and Curt. I've worked with them both. In terms of raw talent and genius and the ability to do things and hear things and see things, Curt was light years ahead of Brian. No-one's gonna believe that because Curt never had the notoriety, but I'm telling you."

No, Gary, I don't believe it because it's simply not true. Begin, allegedly Becher's masterpiece, is a lovely soft/psych pop album that I've liked for many decades, but it was started in spring 1967 (The Ballroom demos), by which time Brian had already as good as abandoned the infinitely more cutting edge Smile. Did Curt come up with anything even close to "Cabin Essence", "Do You Like Worms ?" or the Fire Music ? Or even "California Girls" or "The Little Girl I Once Knew", for that matter ?

Of course, one has to bear in mind that Usher also stated that, in reference to Becher's early 1966 production of the Lee Mallory single "That's The Way It's Gonna Be", that Brian was blown away by it because he was "still doing all these little surfing songs". Actually he'd just done some throwaway project called Pet Sounds. Can you say "credibility gap" ?

Huh. Interesting you should say this, cuz it's what I've always thought, too.
Call me foolish, but I've also always had this "problem" with the published  Usher diaries, that everyone seems to take as the gospel; I guess because Stephen McPartland published them. Not to say all the stuff in there is fake, but... 
Your mileage, may of course, vary. 

Sounds like Usher has a case of sour grapes for some reason....

I think Usher had some hurt feelings. From what I read, he and Brian were like best of friends, always hanging out, until Brian just completely cut off contact with him out of the blue. From Usher's perspective, it had to look like Brian ditched him as he got bigger to hang out with people closer to the hip L.A. "in circle" that Brian seemed to desperately want to be a part of. Which might be true. Usher is quoted as saying that he couldn't understand what happened between him and Brian.

I've had that same feeling. There are some things in there that have since been proven false, and also his assertion that besides Carl "the rest of the Beach Boys weren't very good singers" hurt his credibility in my view.  Also, his personal & spiritual beliefs in regards to Brian come across, as...well...um...something made me uncomfortable.

He said that ?  Man's not as cosmically concious as all that then, seeing as the problem between Brian & Gary can be summed up in two words:

Murry Wilson.

Murry hated him on the principal that he wasn't family and started introducing Brian at all these other folk he also didn't like.

Yeah,  the spiritual stuff... ummm, think we have an agenda here. Also, the alleged example of Brian's SOH with the golf club actually made me cringe. To anyone reading that and not knowing BW, the impression is that he's some kind of mentally handicapped person: in a comfortable social situation he's a dangerously funny guy.  ;D

Oh yeah...that was a bit rich. The gushing over Fabian got annoying too, as Bill Champlin came across as a prick.

I agree with you guys but we should not forget that when Gary worked with Brian, Brian was probably not as inventive as he would later become. When Gary worked with Curt Boettcher, Curt was probably light years ahead of the Brian Gary knew in the early 60s. Not as a songwriter, but as a producer...

Well, OK, but that would imply that Usher didn't listen to any BB product after 1963, of course.  ;D

From the way some of the things are written in the book, he might not have! :lol

Interesting thing though is that on the symphonic BW tribute album that Usher produced in 1970, just three of the ten songs are pre-1966.

I suppose Usher's statement indeed had to be a case of sour grapes, cause it's obviously complete nonsense. I've got Becher's solo album 'There's An Innocent Face', I've got the Millennium album and the Sagittarius albums... It's all enjoyable, but apart from a few cool songs here and there it's hardly great, let alone brilliant. Also, I dislike Becher's voice because the lisping really annoys me.

Well since he wasn't in Brian's circle anymore I doubt he heard any Smile music - hard to believe he didn't check out Pet Sounds though.

Whilst passing, just thought i'd jump in and defend Boettcher's honour. ;D

I think it's probably best to forget what Usher said and just concentrate on the music. And i have no problem in believing that Boettcher was on a par or ahead of Brian in certain respects. Most of the Ballroom tracks heard on that first disc of the Sundazed re-issue were tracked during the summer of 66, making them contemperous (is that a word??) with Brians recording of Good Vibrations. Now, i hear things in those Ballroom tracks that do equal Brian's own production efforts even during his peak of power. Tracks such as Baby Please Don't Go with it's overload of tape manipulation and cutting.  It's A Sad World  and it's haunting electronic oscillations and use of tape echo - and is also an amazing song, (and yes it wasn't written by Curt but who cares, he had the talent and vision to turn it into a masterpiece). The tuned percussion and Chamberlain (Mellotron) on Would You Like To Go and so on. And don't forget all these tracks and innovations were recorded with no budget on borrowed time, with little commercial or critical recognition to back him up.

Also listen to The Association's first album recorded in May/June of 66. Hear those tape explosions? Now where do we hear those again 6 months later? I'm In Great Shape. Not only that but Curt took that process of the echoes feeding back, but then looped them into walls of noise. Listen to Tommy Roe's It's Now Winters Day recorded at the tail end of 66 and you'll hear an icy blast of noise that lasts the entirety of the song created purely from the manipulation of the echo. He does a simillar thing on a single called My Heart Cries Out bu Action Unlimited, where the feedback creates waves of pure noise that wouldn't sound out of place on many a 90's shoegazing album. Listen again to Lee Mallorys Thats The Way It's Gonna Be. Backwards guitar, reverse echo on the vocals. But the thing is, these aren't just cheesy sound effects. They are integral to the arrangement and subsequent feel of the track. Which leads me to....

Vocal arranging. Right from his days of working with the folk group The Goldebriars Curt was blessed with the ability to put voices and harmony together in ways unheard of in folk. Listen to Railroad Boy, Shenadoh, Mumblin' Word on that first Goldebriars album and you'll hear it for sure. Then there is his backing vocal arrangements for the Association, the Bobby Jameson album, Tommy Roe. Curt had this knack of creating these cloud like chords that just sort of hang above the melody. He very often keeps a top note the same whilst everything beneath changes. It creates wonderful dischords and rubbing that no-one and i mean no-one else was doing.

It would be stupid for me to say that Curt was light years ahead of Brian. Those kind of hyperbolic statements don't do either party any favours. But when looked at objectively i can honestly say that Curt was at least Brian's equal in his work of studio production and vocal arranging. Perhaps where Brian holds the upper hand is in his songwriting and his instrumental arrangements. Plus he had the success to cement those talents into the consciouness of the world. Curt never really had that opporunity - too many dodgy contracts! But to dismiss Curt's efforts based purely on what Usher has said is a big mistake. And i'm pretty sure Brian would have been blown away after hearing the Lee Mallory single. How could he not be. I mean he was also blown away by many tracks such as Strawberry Fields, My Obsession, and so on. Nothing wrong with that. Quite the opposite. Proves Brian wanted to listen and also had respect for his competitors. Something some folk could learn from.







 

Like I posted, the BW tribute album that Gary Usher produced in 1970 consisted of mostly post-1965 material... It even had a Smiley Smile medley and two songs from Friends, so it's a fact that he was familiar with the BB's post-Pet Sounds material.

1. Caroline No
2. You Still Believe In Me
3. Busy Doin' Nothin'
4. Pet Sounds
5. Fall Breaks And Back To Winter/Good Vibrations/Heroes And Villains
6. The Warmth Of The Sun
7. God Only Knows
8. Please Let Me Wonder
9. Friends
10. In My Room

No problem with CB, just with Usher talking complete and utter nonsense. First heard Begin nearly 35 years ago, loved it then, love it now.

Yeah Begin is a monster of an album. Sometimes i think it perhaps tries too hard - i kind of prefer the relatively simpler Ballroom tracks.

And i know most folks here won't agree, but i honestly think Usher wasn't too far off the mark in his thoughts of Boettcher and Wilson. I forget the "little surfer music" thing - that's just sour grapes, but Curt definitely had something that Brian didn't. And of course vice versa. But that's the beauty of having and knowing of the choice of listening to either.

Perspective is a funny thing.  You're talking about people who had certain specific windows into other peoples' lives and formed opinions on that basis.  Gary's association with BW was at one point in BW's life, and with CB it was a different period, and the up close and personal feelings that develop about people tend to trump the information you learn later at a distance.  If you heard PET SOUNDS but watched BW make SURFIN' SAFARI, but watched CB do his '66 work close up, guess what?  Those two personal experiences are going to be the basis for everything else you think and believe.  And yes, it is possible if you're a busy industry professional to not keep close track of what other people in the industry are doing.  GU might have heard PET SOUNDS but not really "heard" it, particularly if he's subconsciously slightly biased against getting it because of the estrangement from Brian.

There's nothing insidious or even conscious about this...it's just human nature and the nature of artists living the artist's life. 

The Begin album is good, but all the songs I like were not written or sung by Curt, and most of the actual basic tracks, recorded well before Begin began, were demos that boetcher overdubbed onto. I do like some of the stereo tricks he was working on, but he also had the advantage of working with 16 tracks, compared to Brian's 4 or 8, thus making the actual process MUCH easier. Also, and I know this is personal opinion, but that ballroom stuff is terribly cheesey and lacks any kind of soul (it seems to simply be aping the then current trends) while Brian was making boundary breaking art. And lastly, Curt ruined the whole California Music thing for me by making it spaced-out-disco-world-music.
just sayin'...

Isnt this all subjective anyway?  :shrug

I mean, would this statement hold as much weight if he started/ended with 'In my opinion..." ?

And then again, all this proves is by 1970 Gary had heard the later stuff.

His work with Mike on LBWL doesn't overwhelm me

I think his vocal arrangements are his trademark.
If you listen to Gene Clark's The French Girl/Only Colombe bare bone versions as bonus tracks on the CD reissue of his first album and listen then to the Sundazed 45 with Curt's backing vocal arrangement (performed by his usual group of singers) you will see how much good this arrangement does to the songs. It's a shame that the 45 wasn't released at the time.
Most of his stuff as arranger/producer only came out on 45s - the best stuff is from 66/67 when he still was with OUR PPODUCTIONS (Jacobson & Tansley, The Plastic People, Something Young, Susan Carter, The Mother Love, The Oracle, Action Unlimited etc. etc.)
The Moses Lake 45 on Together is worth a mention as well, not to forget Eternity's Children.
After the demise of the Together project in 1970 Curt went into hiding. When he reappeared his music had changed radically - to the worse unfortunately. His solo for Elektra is a pleasant singer songwriter album, but nearly all C.B. ingredients are missing.

:lol it doesn't get you rockin' the man in the boat?

I love Curt Boettcher but I think his vocal harmonies on the Gene Clark 45 are awfully out of place! I much prefer the Echoes versions!

Let GU rest in peace. But I always felt uncomfotable with his off-the-mark dismissal of BW's songs and capabilities while praising only his collaborations with him (Heavenly bodies!?). Regarding Boettcher's music, as low as his profile could be, the world's lived with his songs for 45+ years and we're still to find something more than a very talented musician. Heck, Jan Berry was a genius too.

Took me a bit, but I recalled where I'd seen the bit about Brian's "little surfer music": this from the booklet of the Sundazed Present Tense reissue:

"I'm over at Studio Three West with Brian Wilson. We Were with Chuck Britz doing something. I think it was a movie soundtrack. The (tape) machine stopped. All of a sudden I heard a sound and the instant I heard it I froze just like someone had thrown a bowling ball at me. My ears perked right up. And Brian looked at me, I looked at Brian and we both said simultaneously, "what is that ?"... and here's this little kid with an earring. That was the first time I met Curt, and it was while he was producing Lee Mallory's record "That's The Way It's Gonna Be"... That record stunned Brian. He's doing little surfer music and here comes this kid who is light years ahead of him."

According to the liner notes, this was spring 1966, which fits nicely with what Curt was doing then and is of course completely at odds with what Brian was doing, and with the last time he worked with Usher on a soundtrack project, Muscle Beach Party, which would have been late 1963/early 1964. I think the kindest thing to say is that Usher's memory is at fault here.

Before it all went rapidly downhill for him I'd say that about '65 Jan Berry was pretty much neck and neck with Brian in terms of producing and arranging.