The Smiley Smile Message Board

At BW.com

Or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6P_FNQyDSY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6P_FNQyDSY)

It's amazing, beautiful, wow. ;D

Not bad. 

Listening to it for the second time. The first time brought me to tears of joy. No kidding. Loved it, this will most likely be a great album. So happy ;D

I'm on my 7th time.

Nearly brought me to tears

Listened to it about 4 times already. I feel this is going to be one of the biggies on the album and possibly one that will reach high on the Adult Contemporary charts.

Permission to say, "told you so" ?

There's a Smile-like warmth about it, and damn isn't that a sweet vocal from Brian ?

Major props to all concerned.

Gorgeous, Love IT!

You always do! :p

Only when I'm right.  ;D

Oh god that's awesome. This is one of the collaborations, isn't it?

His voice is possibly the best I've heard his 'old' voice. He hits HIGH NOTES!

I really can't wait for this now.

MP3?  8) :P

Correct - lyrics by Scott, I believe.

No way, Scott is a genius

You reached into my heart
And found the music of my soul
The melodies unfold
For you

I've never danced before
Until you asked me
Then magic lights lit up the floor

Gliding in a starlit/less sky
Until we found the inner light
Now we can duplicate the universe

The pain in painting
The muse in music
The like in I love you

When you connect the dots
I see your picture coming through
The story's always you

It's more than harmony
When you sing with me
It's an entire symphony

(Chorus)

Don't be afraid, love
We can take it from
The happy ending

The great in grateful
The faith in faithful
The like in I love you

I am speechless.

*picking jaw up off of floor*

That was fucking incredible... damn I can't wait to hear the whole album now

Interesting ... looks like one of the reasons the album was delayed from spring/early summer was that Disney hired a mixer from outside the BW circle. Scott B. had said Disney wanted to tweak some things.

I wonder if that means there's going to be an alternate (BW/Linett original) album mix leaking out at some point ...

Granted, one track isn't much to base any observation on... but it sounds like a BW production to me. I doubt much was tweaked. I'm sure will find out in the fullness of time.

damn...that was something...

The most amazing thing I can think of is that Brian co-wrote this song (finishing Gershwin's bits and structuring them), sang a real good lead vocal, produced the sessions...and he was 67. Who would've thought he still has it.

This is absolutely incredible.  Brian just totally knocked it out of the park with this one.  As has been said, it definitely has a "SMiLE" vibe to it; sort of sounds like the mature "Wonderful."  His voice sounds about as smooth and as pretty as I've heard it in a long, long time. 

Outstanding.  A+. 

Wow.  Very impressive.  The amazing thing about this and TLOS is my favorite thing about them both is Brian's lead vocals.  Never thought I'd say THAT again.

I want to hear the Gershwin bits! It sure sounds like a Brian song, perhaps with a Gershwin fragment as the core melody line? But we won't know until we hear the Gershwin piece.

AGD -- I agree, it doesn't sound like it was messed with much. It sounds a bit like one of the Phil Ramone co-productions from the Target CD -- in other words, BW and BW band arrangements and vocals with a slightly more polished sound and vocal production. And there's nothing wrong with that for a project like this.

(I only bring it up because the page that plays the song makes a big deal about the mixer -- the "legendary" 15-Grammy winning Al Schmitt. Doesn't sound like something Brian's camp would come up with on their own.)

I love this. Scott's (presumably) lyrics aren't as sophisticated as Ira Gershwin's, but it's a different era. I love the arrangement.

I think the song is very good, but the lyrics are a little too schmaltz-packed for even for me. I would have liked Brian to handle those as well, as I think he is more than capable of writing effective, simple lyrics ("The Night Was So Young", "In the Back of My Mind", "Time to Get Alone") that are still substantial. But, whatever, this song still made me even more excited for the album!

Well done!! Brian's vocal is very very good. I wonder if he could pull it off LIVE? Has it had much done to it for the album?
Great song , I love it!!

THAT IS SO BEAUTIFUL.............. :)

The file is 3.82 MB if you want to fish it out of your temp files.  Just find it and rename it with a .mp3 extension  :)

I'm using Firefox and it was in C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USER NAME HERE\Local Settings\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\rxzuzfuz.default\Cache

You know, it's strange, I actually think that the Disney movie song album might be pretty good after listening to this...

For the man wondering if Brian can sing like that live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX7znc-bhDs. Check out the other songs on youtube from the show. Brian's voice is in fine form.

I had to digest it for a few minutes and give it a few more listens before posting my thoughts.  Man, this is good.  Seriously fucking good.  It exceeded my expectations, and I had high expectations going in.  Well done Brian!

haha, that worked, can't believe it.

Thanks for the help!!  ;D

Man, how many files did you have to rename before you found that one out?

Still, thanks for making it portable.

You guys have no idea how tempted I am right now to post the exact same instructions on the blueboard...:)

Just the one.  I had just clicked on the BW.com link so I knew where it would be.  The cached files are sorted by the time they're created.

And the ban hammer shall swing  ;D

Oh poor Brian, you've caught the auto-tune bug. Anybody else think one of the double tracked lead vocals is in auto-tune? I'd like to hear a BW/Linett original mix. I have a feeling this is going to be another Beatles/Spector situation, as far as mixes go.  :'(

I'm really curious now to hear exactly what Brian had to work with as far as the unfinished Gershwin fragments. I have my own ideas as far as what is Brian and what is Gershwin.

Does anyone know the story behind the Gershwin snippets Brian was given to work with? Was it to have been part of a song or symphony piece that was never completed, or just sonic sketches to work on later?

It's funny, I just finished a Music History class, and both Gershwin and Brian had sections in the text book.

BW has been pitch corrected by computer since the 88 album. Not really a big deal -- it's all about the performance quality, which in this case seems to be excellent. (The one non auto tuned BW album is GIOMH -- which most people consider his worst.)

Among other things... ;)



Mostly true... GIOMH did have autotune used on it...poorly. Check out the vocals to "Fairy Tale" again. Some strange things happen to Brian's voice on it.  What people don't realize is that auto-tune and pitch correction can't make someone tone-deaf or with a poor voice sing well...it's a myth.

Anyway, with all that said...Brian sounded AWESOME on this. Anybody else notice how sweetly Brian has been singing lately?

Yeah i saw that a few weeks back and it's awesome. Thanks for reminding me!! Go Brian, he seems to be getting some confidence back in that voice!!

Or post it on Facebook!  BW.com can't ban people from Facebook!  Mwahahahahahahahahaaaa!

Seriously, thanks for the instructions...worked perfectly for me, too.  

This is really nice. I'd love to know which bits are Gershwin and which bits are Brian. And full props to the tech guys for making Brian's voice sound almost good.

Yeah I was going to ask the same thing. As a total Gershwin ignoramus I have no idea how true to the original this is. It sounds melodically very Brian to me. Any Gerhwinados able to shed more light on this?

Thanks!

As this is one of the pieces the Gershwin estate handed to Brian to finish, very few people know how true it is to the original. I recall Brian saying that he needed to write a bridge.. and of course, the lyric is, I'm pretty certain, by Scott.

Check this out - looks like my insane idea was damn close !

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2010-06-29-wilson29_st_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2010-06-29-wilson29_st_N.htm)

Watch the video on that link..... and drool  ;D I so so so cannot wait for this!

'Scuse me ?  Unless Brian's done the most perfect double-tracking job of all time, all I'm hearing is a single vocal with some subtle reverb. Someone care to point out to me where it's doubled ?

Nice work. To these ears it has sort of an Adult Contemporary feel to it, though most certainly not in a way reminiscent of "Fairy Tale" or Imagination, so I guess it's fine with me. The only bit I didn't like was that line about "duplicating the universe", but never mind. Love the sweet vocal delivery. Go, Brian!

Thanks Andrew. I wondered if this was one of the 'collaborative' ones. Sounds like there's a lot of Brian in there. Good stuff.

Beautiful

The beginning reminds me of "Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring"

It must be horrible to be caught with the bug that anytime you hear something beautiful your mind starts picking apart reasons why it's not really beautiful.

The way I hear it, that's a damn beautiful song well written well produced well arranged well recorded and well sung. 

IF he's autotuning I hope the hell he keeps it up.  Maybe throw a little more on there, drown that sucker in autotune if that's the result.

The live clip was great too, damn I can't believe he's singing subtle again.  He actually looked like he knew it sounded good too.  Lovin' it!

Yes, cool video. Did Brian do all the backgrounds we can hear on "Rhapsody" in that clip himself?

I don't hear any autotune - sounds way too natural.

Its not a bug - he needs it to sound in tune. Just think of it as another effect, like reverb or EQ or something. I'm fine with it, and if it wasn't used it would probably sound much grimmer.

And I agree with Andrew - no doubling, apart maybe from some thickening (plugins again, not double-tracking).

However, it suffers from the usual BW Band problem - the massed vocals sounding just more MOR AOR than I'd like - just a little bit bland, the guts EQd and mixed out of them. This is mostly four or five men's voices but sounds too much like something from a Val Donnican Christmas Special. And also it would be nice if one could hear the individual parts as I bet these are gorgeous harmonies, but just sound like a vague wash. TLOS suffered from the same problem) Could be due to the low bitrate of the stream/mp3 and perhaps a little related over-compression.

Another disappointment is the use of a synth instead of an actual bass guitar. Its a shame, as a real bass would have added real warmth. Message Man from the TLOS sessions suffered from the same.

He sounds like he lost his voice in that video. 

Ummmmmmm... check out the video on USA Today - Brett Simmons on bass (Fender ?) on "The Like I Love In You". I hear no synth bass.

I think some of our ears need autotune :) Some of us hear it and think it soundss great, others think it sounds horrible.  I agree with Andrew I don't hear autotune on it, I think that card gets played a little too much.  Even if it has autotune who cares?  Like said above just another effect, I suppose reverb is horrible too.

I think the song sounds great, one of the best he's done ina  long, long, time.

Anyways, to the point about the band sounding bland, that's a fair criticism.  I still think the song is great... one of the things that seperates the original beach boys from beach boys version 2.0 (i.e. Brian's band) is that the Beach Boys always sang with 1.passion 2.honesty 3.flaw.  If you listen to any Beach Boys song, you'll hear voices that aren't quite right or that aren't mixed quite right or that are even singing the wrong damn word... on the newer stuff, usually only Brian's voice is the one that has any discernable character to it.  For a perfect example of this, listen to "Midnight's Another Day" when Brian comes in singing the background vocals with the band near the end.  Everybody's perfectly in tune, perfectly mixed, perfectly beautiful but it's only Brian's awkward, slightly off, slightly too passionate "WHOOa OOHHH oohhhh OOOOH AAHHHH!" that makes the song powerful.  

Yes, I am attempting to make the case that singing the song perfect is actually bad, lol.  

Fun video.

Indeed sounds like the wall of Brians in Rhapsody. Fun version of "They Can't Take That Away From Me."

And Brian seems excited and engaged and creative.

Who can ask for more?

As much as I love this song (and as much as I love TLOS and the Christmas album), I understand what you're saying. It's almost as if they're so deferential to Brian that they blend in rather than stand out, and the effect is that sort of perfect--too perfect--blandish blend. Or maybe it's because they're so damn good at blending. The Beach Boys sounded amazing together, but they weren't as professional in the studio, so maybe someone forgot the words or sang too loud, and Brian liked the overall feel, so he let it go. Same with the Mamas and the Papas. Cass was always so loud to the point where you could barely hear Michelle, but it worked, and not just because Cass was technically a better singer. Sometimes she wasn't even doing the melody, and her voice was loudest. It was the odd balance that added to the magic.

But all this is not to step on the magic that is in this song, or, I would argue, in a lot of Brian's other recent work. (Let's not forget Midnight's Another Day.)

On first listen I was slightly disappointed in the adult contemporary gloss of the production.  But by the third listen, my focus shifted to how great the song itself is.  Great changes, great arrangement, great singing.  Now listening to it for the 5th time and love it.

I don't hear any synth bass.  I do hear some doubling in Brian's vocals, but it's very subtle.  If there's autotune it's tastefully applied and doesn't bother me at all.

Getting very excited about this CD.  8)

Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #78 in Music (See Top 100 in Music)
#34 in     Music > Rock
#72 in     Music > Pop
#1 in     Music > Children's Music > Disney

For the moment anyway, was 400 yesterday...people like the song anyway

Now it's #55 in music
#28 in Rock
#51 in Pop
and still #1 in Disney

Dude, come on! You know Brian almost always double tracks his lead, it's standard practice. And yes, I did listen with headphones on and Brian is double tracked and in partial autotune. It's real obvious when he sings "into my heart". What other explanation can you give for Brian sounding like an old lady when he sings "I love you"?

My point is he sounds unnatural in an otherwise great song.

Oh, and I love how AGD never seeks outsider opinion in audio related quandaries to back up his claims, as I did.

You sir, are simply wrong. Brian does not always double track his leads. "Wind Chimes" on Smile is one example. The title track of TLOS is another.

Anyway, there is now an official press release: http://bit.ly/95Q4ca

"The Like in I Love You" is a free adaptation from a Gershwin tune that was cut from one of his musicals. The original is called "I Will Remember You" "Will You Remember Me." And it's actually been recorded in its original form. You can hear a sample here:

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1097587/a/Nice+Work+If+You+Can+Get+It:+Songs+By+The+Gershwins.htm

I see a "Will You Remember Me?" but not an "I Will Remember You".  Am I looking in the wrong place?

So you know for a fact I didn't, do you ?  Gotta admire the arrogance, if not the lack of common sense. I can state with complete confidence, no autotune.

As for "always" doubling his leads... I take it you've not listened to TLOS recently. Or at all, actually. The album is awash with single tracked vocals from Brian.


It's called "falsetto". Brian's been known to use it once or twice over the last 49 years.

Ah, how could I be so gullible ? I'm ignoring my own advice - "never feed the trolls". Duh !

I screwed up. I corrected my original post. It is the same song.

Nope - someone got the title slightly wrong. Same song.

Cool. 

Well I could be wrong about the bass, though the video has two different bass guitars on it and proves nothing.

And I still wish Brian would leave Taylor Mills out of the mix.

Why's that?

So the video has Brett sitting down, playing a bass on the track of "TLIILY"... and it proves nothing ?

Why the F.U.C.K. am I wasting my time beating my head against the brick wall of such complete idiocy ?  Hey, I bet you believe the moon landings were faked, don't you ?  And that evolutionary theory is a commie plot ? Go away, stop bothering us with your inanities.

PS: bass on "Message Man" is Bob Lizik. I asked him, he told me.  Time to visit an audiologist.

Hey, we all know Brian loves Autotune, and if we're honest he couldn't make a record without it.

I can say with equal confidence that there is Autotune (or an equivalent plugin) on TLIILY!

I'm not a troll. It's just that every time I give any input that deviates from the norm, I have to defend myself. Wouldn't you do the same?

Andrew, why didn't you mention the outsider opinion you gathered in your post, did I miss it?

Really, it wouldn't seem so troll like if you wouldn't respond on such a personal level.

I'm sure enough of my info to make such categorical statements. I don't deal in suppositions unless stated as such.

And you stated that what I said was my own unsupported opinion, which it isn't. You know me well enough, you know how I don't turn the other cheek. No autotune, no doubled vocals on this song.

Listening with headphones, I can hear the bassist occasionally sliding up and down the string between notes.  Either a real bass or a very good bass patch!

Its a publicity film, not a documentary record of the recording of the album. All the films of Brian Wilson in the Studio are designed to make Brian look good and so much of the footage is obviously mocked up to make us think Brian is back at work like the old days. Admittedly they're getting better at making these films, and Brian does actually seem on top of things in this, but I don't think you can guarantee that the tracks being played in the film directly correspond to what ends up on the record. Its a simple observation.

Well, she's hot and everything...

But I think she is one of the reasons that the backing vocal mix sounds so MOR, glossy-bland Swingle singers-style, as discussed above. I just prefer the sound of men's voices, and its not as if someone else couldn't sing her parts. She adds a minus-grit factor, and that's a shame.

That being said, I think the films vary. The studio footage of BW in the "Imagination" doc was staged outright. The XMas stuff was mimed, but Linett wrote on this board that it was an accurate representation of the sessions -- it's just that they only had one day to shoot. I seem to recall that the Smile and TLOS session footage is of the real thing. But yes, they'll edit the bejeebus out of it.

Well, anybody else hear autotune, or some form of pitch correction, wanna back me up?

Yeah, that's what convinced me I was probably wrong...  :p

All the sessions were filmed, for later TV airing/DVD release. It's what they call a "documentary". This has been common knowledge since fall last year.

Have I somehow slipped into a parallel universe largely populated by people who have a serious problem with reality and the comprehension thereof ?

Them vox is doubled.  However one is more prominent than the other.  Gives a nice effect.

It does sound a bit processed to me at points. But it's hard to say how much of that is a plug-in like auto tune, and how much is reverb, vocal punch-ins / ghosting or Brian just sounding weird in his upper range.

The most extreme BW auto tune is the Target CD -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8A_J4KSvRg  No question about that one. It's actually distracting. Unlike Smile, let's say, where's it's essentially used to add "oomph" to a few tough notes.

Me!

'The Like In I Love You...' at 2.07. But I don't want to pull the song to pieces and criticise bits here and there. I think its great. The thing is, we've all heard him sing live, and we know that many artists who aren't 67 years old and can sing in tune use it to add a certain polish. Brian has freely admitted using it in the past (Smile, where its pretty obvious), and I'm glad he does.

And also, I hear doubling at 0.57 'the pain in painting...'  :lol

Goodness -- we've clearly all been hungry for something new to chew over, haven't we?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

That is a good point.

Keep her on stage though  :lol

She's impressed me in a lot of songs though, on TLOS especially.

As if people aren't pissed off enough over Al doing "Help Me Rhonda" on his album.  :hat

No, just people who don't agree with everything you say and have their own opinions.

You're very knowledgeable about many things, but no-one can be right all the time.  ;)

Anyway, lets not get sidetracked into pointlessness. There's a new Brian Wilson record coming out soon. Yay!

Starving! And I have no real friends...  ;)

And can I say I wish that Brian included synth bass on all his records?

Only 2 unfinished Gershwin pieces out of 100? Awwww.

No, sir, you may not - kindly leave the auditorium immediately !  ;D

Yeah, because the rest of them sound like they gargle gravel and whiskey every morning, right? Why Taylor as opposed to Jeff, or Darian, or any of them? Their voices are interchangable.

Brian's band just lack a low-end - Nick isn't deep enough and Brian hasn't really got the lungs.

I couldn't get that Feinstein thing to work, but Spotify found a medley with it in - Bears a slight resemblance...
http://open.spotify.com/track/2Mek8xc1IKoHuCeqLZYptb

aaaaaaannnnnnd.... instead of celebrating a nice little new recording from our musical hero we start quarrelling about it. Some folks happen to have more background information, others don’t. Some people hear/see things differently. Nothing to get all fussed up about, even if it takes some time to convince someone.
And, don't worry AGD, I believe you.  :)

C’mon you all, enjoy the song, the video, try to like Al’s album as well   ;D  , and be happy! (...and we'll have world peace...)

I'm going to pretend that "duplicate the universe" is a nod to Love You.  :p

LOL... would be more appropriate if the line was "duplicate the Solar System".  But perhaps this still works because not only can we duplicate the Solar System, we can duplicate the whole flippin universe now!   8)

There's a great blueboard joke to be made here...nah, too easy.  ;D

USA Today video was class.  I am so stoked for this album!

This doesnt work for me I'm afraid, I don't even seem to have a documents and settings but then I am somewhat computarded! Ah well, just have to keep listening to it straight from the site until it's released, very nice and lovely vocal (auto tuned or otherwise) from Brian

Absolutely fantastic sound. Brian's arrangements and textures sound great in combination with Gershwin's music!

Brian's vocal sound excellent as well. I can't wait to hear the album.

It's hit some file sharing sites (if I can say that here?), easy to download

MOD EDIT - Please do not post links to audio downloads on here.

wat? There's a world of difference between pitch correction and autotune and the quality that each present in a final vocal. Running this vocal through a filter is lazy, and creats a very wavery, somewhat robotic tone that just sounds like ass. The autotune used here brings the quality down a notch, sadly.


Brian can sing just fine, he does not *need* it to be in tune. All he needs to do is be given a few run throughs of the song and comping with a bit of pitch correction should be all he needs to have a great sounding vocal.

Autotune goes way beyond reverb, EQ, compression etc.


I hear it, and I'm not "playing a card". I don't hear the doubling, but then I'm not listening with headphones right now. But as for autotune, I hear it and yes, I care, because it ruins and cheapens a vocal.


Autotune isn't responsible for the tone of Brian's vocal - that's all him. Removing the autotune and possibly using a bit of tasteful pitch correction would likely make his vocal even better.

And there's nothing wrong with pointing out a serious flaw. Yes, this is a great listen, but the fact that it's plagued by something very modern and something that's gonna sound horribly dated in a decade (i.e. autotune) really takes it from being absolutely great to just really good.

It's scary that it's used so commonly that a lot of people seemingly can't tell anymore. Yes, when used for effect ala Ke$ha it's blatantly obvious, but it's used so commonly for "perfection' now that people are becoming numb to it and it's a little sad.

OK, this is the last time I'm going to say this, promise.

There is no autotune on Brian's vocal in this song. Not only do I not hear it (with or without cans) but I have compelling reason to believe this to be the case. There y'go. You carry on thinking what you think, I'll trundle on down my path. From where the sun now stands, I will argue no more forever. On this topic, anyway.  :)

I can't figure out how to re-stream the song to make sure, but Brian's vocal sounded natural enough to me.  I would agree that it probably was tuned a bit here and there, but not egregiously.  I never use it on my own records and very rarely on others', so I actually don't know it well enough to spot it.  I just dislike it on principle.

One thing the guy I worked with for years and who mentored my own production skills told me you can fix anything in ProTools EXCEPT the timbre and quality of the vocal.  If the person phones in the performance or sings with the wrong attack or feel, you can tune it all you want and it's still going to be crap.  What impresses me about these vocals is how much warmth and character is in them.  Brian's voice has ruined a lot of his earlier work for me, but with this and the last record, I am REALLY starting to like it.  There's a weathered but gentle quality to it that I find very moving.   I saw the youtube video of "God Only Knows" and of course it isn't as good as the studio work, but it does have that same quality to it.

I'm just really impressed.

Fair enough, but curious, what is your compelling reason? Not that I doubt you, just wondering.

I like it, it's very gentle and Brian sounds vulnerable (in a good way), I like the fact that he is hitting some high notes!

Runners -- Autotune is pitch correction. It's software that you can use as much of as little as you like. It has come to mean a heavily processed, almost entirely robotic-sounding vocal, but that's an extreme use.

Great accomplishment and honor, kudos to all involved.  

It doesn't "grab" me personally.

Classic example: Cher, "Believe" (that effect was intentional)

Not good example - Mike Love, Live at Knebworth 1980

So basically what you're saying is you don't know either?

If there are compelling reasons for believing that Brian's performance is pitch correction-free then why don't you stop being so coy and tell us which member of the production team or their affiliates confirmed this? Without this I don't see that anything is compelling, and we'll all just continue to assume that its pretty unlikely that Brian could pull off a vocal like that without a bit of help, which is fine by me - he is 67 after all.

hooooooooooooo boy! :lol

That pretty well sums up my reaction too, but it's just one song. Some of the snippets of other numbers heard in the promo video sound more intriguing to me...

Guess few people
I may not see anything compelling but I sure as hell hear compelling evidence that leads me to believe Andrew is right.

That said, he already said he'd let the matter lie...why bring it back up?!

It is pitch correction, sure, but there's doing it manually when you've hit a few notes that are slightly sharp or flat and just being lazy and running all of it through an autotune filter to make your entire vocal performance wavery and sh*t.

Why the heck does anyone care to make such a big deal out of the autotune debate?  Is that a cotton shirt Brian is wearing or is it some sort of synthetic material?  Does Brian put sugar in his coffee or artificial sweetener? 

Bottom-lines:

This is a quality new BW/Gershwin composition that is well recorded and produced. Brian is singing very well, we can mostly all agree on that. Auto-tune cannot correct a vocal if the "passion" or "force" of a singer is deficient.

AGD is a trusted source who has been around the block many times. He has spoken to someone close to the action on the autotune thing. Having read his posts for years I can probably guess within four or five people who that is. But even saying that, guessing is kinda side-stepping the fact that AGD is not revealing his source because a) is keeping his confidence, and a trustworthy person is something that is lacking in today's society and b) he doesn't have to reveal to a bunch of internet boarders.

I would not expect him to leap to my defense like I did for him, but that's life.

When you can notice autotune, it's absolutely annoying.

Amen.

Why would this person who Andrew has supposedly talked to not want fans to know his/her identity?

It's just a song.

I don't care for pitch correction. Talent should be able to stand on its own. That said, Brian didn't need this and it's a shame it had to be released this way. Like many other opinions of mine argued against by AGD, he has yet to sway me.

Anyways, on a lighter note, the song has great chords. The harmonies in the intro are a nice touch. Can't wait to hear the rest of the album.  ;D

Well, now that I haven't just got back from the pub I feel pretty much the same way, and am now going to leave it well alone. I respect everyone's opinions on the autotune question, especially AGD's, and am retiring from the debate.

BTW, judging by the curve of Brian's stomach in the film I'd say it was sugar!  ;)

Exactly. You summed it up perfectly. And regardless of whether auto-tune was used or not, the vocal was outstanding, as is the rest of the song.

I vote yes on a double-tracked vocal and a real bass.
I don't know about auto-tune, but the vocal doesn't sound wavery or like sh*t to me.

i'm a little confused why this song was chosen and given entirely new lyrics when it was basically a finished piece.
I'd really like to know what Brian's exact contributions were. And I haven't seen Scott Bennett's name mentioned anywhere yet. except here.

all in all, this is a wonderful new entry in the Brian Wilson catalog and this album should do lot to reinforce the fact that Brian is a serious American composer... just in case anyone doesn't "get it" by now.

Understand that Brian's performance itself is great. Outright, no questions asked, he's sounded better and better since the mid 80s. And the song is really nice, too. It's the production on his voice that I'm not so into - the wavery quality isn't anything to do with his performance.

Hey Jammer,

I am a musician/producer and a musician friend of mine, upon listening to The Like in I Love You, pointed out the autotune to me. I had already noticed it earlier but had not mentioned it to him. I am not a fan of autotune and I never use it on my vocals, but once you know how to pick out the sound, it is impossible to ignore it. If there is no autotune on Brian's vocals here, I'll eat my hat.

Agreed 100%, RunnersDialZero.  Unfortunately, a lot of the time autotune is demanded by the people bankrolling the production. The corporate masters determine that all vocals must be run through antares or autotune or whatever, and it is done. And yes, it already sounds dated even though it is still in vogue. I hear it a bit on the backing vocals as well as Brian's, which leads me to believe that unlike SMiLe, where autotune was used here and there for sweetening (still noticeable to me but tasteful at least) the Disney brass demanded that all the vocals be run through autotune or similar.

Anyway, the song is beautiful, and I am not going to let the autotune ruin it for me!

EDIT: I just read through the rest of the thread and I didn't mean to stir up the pot any more by throwing in my two cents. I want to go on record as saying that this song is absolutely gorgeous, both the production/mixing and Brian's vocal (aside from the above) - we will soon be able to officially call this a 'trifecta' for Brian's late-period career. Next, what do we get? An album of Disney tunes called "Pleasure Island?" Or an album of Disney tunes, then Pleasure Island? I can't wait! Ten years ago we had exactly two Brian Wilson studio albums. Incredible how times have changed.

I also hear autotune and while it doesn't bother me and it doesn't matter to me if it's used as long as it's used to make a good performance better instead of making a bad performance good enough, Andrew's authoritarian attitude does bother me. Even though you are a respected Beach Boys historian with thousand times the knowledge and connections most of us here have, your connections can still try to make you believe stuff that isn't neccisarily true! They also have their own agendas Andrew! Just keep that in mind...Peace and love, as Ringo Starr would say, Yorick

This song is a beauty. Love the clavinet on the verses. Really clever arrangement and tastefully done. I don't think this will sound dated any time soon. Even "Love You" is a product of it's time but still stands up, while "Imagination" (IMO) sounds totally cheesy.
I don't want to get in on the autotune discussion but as a musician/producer who records big harmonies - oranjuly.com : )
I hear it very subtly on the longer notes BW is singing.
The most obvious and bad autotuning (filter type - NOT sweetening) is indeed Mike Love's Live at Knebworth as AGD pointed out lol.
Before I knew what Autotune was, I thought he was literally trying to sing like a robot.

Hmm - this sounds like the difference between the mono and stereo Pet Sounds mixes. I haven't listened to the stream yet (low connection speed here out in the ... thanks for nothing BT) but what you're describing could be a deliberate, desired effect.

As you say, "supposedly"...

I've been a fan for 35 years now, and through all that time, two things have remained constant:

1 - in any given situation with multiple options, you can rely on The Beach Boys, collectively and individually, to invariably make the wrong choice.

2 - if you divulge the identity of a source, or sometimes even admit to having one, it's amazing how rapidly that source dries up. Especially if confidentiality has been stipulated.

I've been lucky: I've been in the right place at the right time more often than I would have thought possible, but, as has been pointed out to me by 'interested parties', any such luck has had an increasingly generous dusting of mutual trust.

And that's why, when you ask for a name, however much I may want to, I can't come out and say "Melinda told me".

Oh...  :thud

So Melinda produced the track, huh?

Thanks for the info. Andrew, always a pleasure.

In all seriousness through Mr. D, please realize that we are all loyal fans, and as stated earlier some of us hear strange effects used on Brian's voice on long notes here and there. We just want to hear our hero in his natural voice.

That's all

You should dig up the original song. Perhaps you should Meditate and you'll hear it. It sounds almost nothing like Brian's version -- he took a Gershwin rarity (cut from a show, recorded in its complete form once, on an album for enthusiasts), wrote a new melody for the chords, restructured it, re-arranged it and gave it new lyrics. (Kind of like his reported contributions to Let the Wind Blow, but more.)

Frankly, IMHO, if you heard the songs side by side and didn't know they were related -- you wouldn't notice. As for Scott writing lyrics, he's told some folks at a show that he contributed. And it sounds like him -- not Brian, and certainly not Ira Gershwin (whose words for the original tune are quite different).

Someone at a show (as reported on the Blue Board) also told a fan that the outside engineer was brought in to boost the Grammy chances, at Disney's behest.

True, that.

Al Schmitt didn't engineer the sessions - Mark did, as per - rather,  he was asked to do a remix by Disney (which is confirmed by an old tweet which said over three months ago that "Brian was mixing his album"). Given how things work these days, sooner or later the original mix will doubtless leak out, hopefully while most of us here are still of this earth.  :)

Will be interesting to hear both, also to see what constitutes making a song more Grammy friendly.

Autotune, apparently :wink

So the Brian Wilson/T-Pain duet is coming any day now eh?  :3d

I am no longer a fan of Brian Wilson because he used autotune.

That is moronic. NOW you're not a fan of Brian? Shame on you, dude. You must not have been a real fan then. Brian has profoundly impacted my life and music and I am so grateful. This new song is excellent. Flawless writing. BW sounds in fine form.

If someone is no longer a fan of Brian because he used autotune -- they should have dropped out after BW88. (That used an early type of pitch correction -- or so AGD's site suggests.) They definitely should have dropped out after Imagination (that was tweaked on virtually every track).

And AGD -- I should have clarified, an outside engineer to mix the album, not to work the board during the session.

 :lol

No, it was a joke. I'm just shocked that Brian could make such a shockingly good song and all you people can do is go on for PAGES about autotune. I think it's appalling.

Okay, then let's talk about something else.

If anyone wants to hear the original Gershwin song, send some telegraphic signals my way.

I think he was kidding.

Anyway, I think maybe certain NAMES are more Grammy-friendly, like Al Schmitt. The Grammies are such a sham anyway.

As far as I'm concerned, even if the sound is slick, I'm just grateful that it's beautiful work, and that Brian is still around to create--happily create, I think. There's so much musical dreck out there. He's still a rare talent.

A GRAMMY???? Does anyone really think that Brian would win a grammy when they by-passed SMiLE? Even TLOS, to these ears deserved to win. So now they're going to take something that is sweet and nice and has only some of Brian's hand in it and say let's give him a grammy? That would be like what they did with Fire! Token award. And, not for anything but as sweet as this piece may be, after 7 or 8 listens I'm not exactly jumping up and down like I did when I first heard Morning Beat. Where's that R&R album anyway? ;)

He did win a Grammy for Smile -- best rock instrumental. Har.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2dirl1v.jpg)

Sorry, but it's a completely valid complaint. I just said on the last page that the song is good, Brian's vocal performance is great, etc. etc. etc.

Here's something else for us to complain about:

HE HAD OVER 100 GERSHWIN FRAGMENTS TO WORK WITH, AND HE ONLY PICKED TWO? FODA!

Some folks need to read ENTIRE posts before they answer!!!!

Louie -- I did. Your post wasn't written clearly.

Brian probably would've won at least one more Grammy if Ray Charles hadn't died so shortly before the ceremonies.

Back burner  :P

My understanding is that songs are written and recorded. I'm just not sure if the interest is there to release it.

Brian's interested, should be enough...

Oh wait *thinking of the people that surround Brian*, that's not enough  ;D

Brian and the folks around him still like major label release and distribution, FWIW.

Listen, I (and a lot of people here) would have loved to see BW just chuck the major label machinery some 10 years ago and release everything he thought of or coughed up online. And from what I read, he's continued to write and record with Scott B. since TLOS.

But it seems like, right now, labels are more interested in "projects" that can be easily sold. And, in the Gershwin case, at least it's a project that really seemed to interest and involve Brian.

Did nobody besides me notice that Brian had hundreds of unfinished Gershwin segments to work with, and he only used two?

I think that's all they asked for. He was signed to do a Gershwin covers album, using mainly well-known songs. The "new" stuff is a bonus, and the estate controls access to those unpublished song fragments very tightly. (I believe the estate is parceling out a couple of more such fragments for a Phil Ramone-produced album that will come out later this year.)

Sorry to return to the subject of autotune/pitch correction, but do you know any more details about any pre-autotune pitch correction; it's interesting, I do for one gather that engineers would sometimes skillfully manipulate tape speeds to correct certain notes (?).

Cheers

There were lots of ways. On BW88, AGD suggests it was a Fairlight --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairlight

-- Which presumably would have allowed engineers to alter BW's pitch through drawing on a screen. You could pitch correct before digital, too, but it was a somewhat more arduous process.

A device called the Eventide Harmonizer apparently did it too. My (entirely uninformed) guess is that the BBs first used pitch correction -- in some form -- on BB85. There are arguably some sampled vocals on there, and my guess is Steve Levine did something to BW's vox on the album.

It would have been recorded using autotune  so it right away it would suck  no matter how great the songs were. :spin

I was having some doubts about this album...then I heard this song. WOW!!!!!!! One of the best from him I've heard in a long time.

Was it indeed a Fairlight? I could've sworn it was a Synclavier....

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs88.html

And correction -- the note about the Fairlight is for a single song -- "One For the Boys."

The intro vocals to "It's Gettin' late" have always sounded sampled to me, from first listen. The decay is way too abrupt.

Yes, that was one application for the H3000. Back then the wonderfully named 'Publison Infernal Machine' was another option.

Along with the aforementioned method of varying the (tape) speed, a notch in the EQ at the right place can also give an apparent shift. Kind of hard to explain, but it removes anything that conflicts with another part of the track but still leaves much of the vocal intact. Maybe Stephen Desper or Mark Linnet could expand on that - without necessarily commenting on Brian's track - and add some more insight?
Perhaps the typically contemporary uses of Autotune makes some people quickly write it off as a bad thing or a sign of the artist needing a helping hand. But engineers have always been able to augment performances. I believe one of the benefits of such as Antares is simply to speed-up a process that once took a lot longer.
As for the track itself, I think 'The Like in I Love You' sounds very nice, and I'm happy to have new material from Brian to listen to.

Steve Desper told me he used a Harmonizer to prepare the tapes for Brian's "water machine" keyboard request during the Smile sessions.

Re: BW88, Andy Paley said a Synclavier was used "to correct a few bum notes", but I'm informed by a hugely reliable source that the AFM sheets refer to it as a Fairlight.

What's interesting about ProTools is how similar it is in some ways to the '60s brand of recording.  What I understand is that in the '60s you didn't have very many tracks at your disposal and punching was difficult (at least punching out was), so engineers would do multiple takes and edit them together.  Savvy engineers were still doing this with basics in the '70s and beyond in analog, but with 24-track, it was much easier to punch in and out and create a master take on a track...e.g., you might have 1, 2, or 3 tracks for vocals, but the process was to cut into each individual track and perfect that take.

Now with ProTools, you can still do that, but it's more common to do multiple takes of a vocal (or another track) and edit the best parts together...which is more the '60s brand of recording, except now you're editing a bunch of individual tracks except for the whole thing.  Though what I was told by some old timers is some engineers were proficient enough with cutting tape that they could actually edit out specific tracks by cutting into PART of the tape.  That blows my mind, but apparently some people could do it.

Anyway, there have always been cheats of one form or another, at least ever since the invention of reverb and varispeed.  Some of your favorite "live" '60s singers may have had edits comped together from 25 different takes...which is very similar to how it's done today.

Good post. And specifically -


I've seen an old BBC engineer doing this with a pair of scissors. Amazing.

Again, SWD told me he did just that with the horn "Take A Load Off Your Feet" for the final mix, where it swaps channels: the original master had both honks in one channel, so he did what he called a "window" edit and transferred just that single second "honk" from left to right.

Speaking of manual editing feats, apparently after Dennis Dragon had hand-spliced the master track for "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" from multiple takes, the result looked like a pedestrian crossing. A razor blade and edit tape are wonderful things in the right hands.

Going back to punch-ins, Bones Howe used to record The Association's more complex vocals one line at a time, and individually.

Ooo lots of interesting stuff there :)

Actually, if Autotune was used at all (which is open to debate...) it would be applied post-recording, and the off notes would be corrected gradually, not while recording.

The other thing to bear in mind is that one can apply pitch correction to individual parts of individual notes, and you don't have to put a whole take through Autotune. So the BW vocal may well not be Autotuned, but could well be pitch-corrected!  ;)

I'm a little late to the party (and the inevitable autotune debate), but the track sounds great to me.  Brian sounds fantastic, the chords and arrangement are great, and the song has a polished feel that compliments the material.  I admit, at first I was a bit skeptical on the project, but hearing this track has me very excited to pick up the album.  Even if he had a little help, Brian sounds better than any 68 year old former chain smoker has any right to.   It defies logic, but Brian's voice has really improved as he's aged - plus, he's really seemed more engaged in his singing ever since BWPS.  It can only mean good things are still to come down the road, as long as Brian's drive to create stays intact.

Brian's voice on this track really shines. Great blend of vocals and instruments.

I can't wait to hear the rest of the album.

Also, there seems to be no doubt in my mind that Phil Spector and Brian may have used pitch correction back in the 60's considering the amount of studio trickery that went on, however "organic" it was. Again, a brilliant song. Brian Wilson is a musical god.

I don't know about that.  Part of what makes the Beach Boys vocals so distinctive (Al Jardine has said this) is a lot of time they are ever so slightly out-of-tune on the double.  That, along with the wonderfully heterogenous blend (which makes for a broader texture than, say, the Bee Gees) and the ability to swoop and move in rhythmic and dynamic tandem is a lot of what makes the BBs vocals almost unparalleled.  There are better harmony singers out there but very few have approached their ability to coax emotion out of wordless vocals.  It's very choirlike, as many have pointed out.

In a way Brian's smooth vocal delivery reminds me of the M.I.U. Album.

The exact reason I don't really listen to TLOS or BWPS that often. I know it sounds crazy to many but I prefer GIOMH because at least Brian's backing vocals have some sort of feeling, a texture to them that is more listenable to me than the overly smooth sound when his band sings.

To the song: at first I wasn't that impressed but after several listens that's changed. Subtle, but very good. Wonderful arrangement. Another one of those far out tags, too. Definitely excited to hear the rest of the album.

The exact reason I don't really listen to TLOS or BWPS that often. I know it sounds crazy to many but I prefer GIOMH because at least Brian's backing vocals have some sort of feeling, a texture to them that is more listenable to me than the overly smooth sound when his band sings.

To the song: at first I wasn't that impressed but after several listens that's changed. Subtle, but very good. Wonderful arrangement. Another one of those far out tags, too. Definitely excited to hear the rest of the album.

Glad I'm not the only one who's mildly bothered by this.

The demo of TLOS was better in many respects that the official version in that the vocals were more rough and ready and better for it, especially Southern California which was ruined in the final version. The thing with the BVs on a lot of BW's stuff is that i hear no men... I know they're in there but there's none of the sweet rough honey we used to get with the Beach Boys, now its all wet blanket, spoonfull of blancmange, margarine. Can't believe it's not Beach Boys... (a joke probably just for the British).  ;)

Well, I prefer Southern California in the final version just because it's sung by Brian ...

I have a theory about Brian's work: you can tell how into a song/project he is by the work he puts into the outro. If he doesn't care, it's just a fade on a normal repeat of the chorus, or something like that. If he cares, you have what you where, an outro that takes the song somewhere else, somewhere it hasn't been before. For this song, I feel like the outro takes us out into the grand majestic expanse of the 'starlit' universe. But enough of my poor picturesque writing.

The track itself is a real interesting mix of Brian's Today and Pet Sounds styles, IMO, which is probably a comfortable sound for him.  It has a lot of nice little production touches. For example, during a little instrumental break/bridge, a heavily phasered vocal comes in just for a few seconds, and the way the track breaks down to just the harpsichord/piano right before the outro gets me everytime. I love that. And how about the sleigh bells in the outro? Brian, you made us wait way too long for a new outro with sleigh bells.

It's a really cool set of melodies, too, isn't it?

I didn't really love this song at first either, but it really grew on me very quickly. Since it's got the touch of both Gershwin and Wilson, I guess this shouldn't be surprising.

And I gotta say, the only part that sounds really pitch corrected to me is the bit that comes in around 2:52.

I think I prefer the demo because it isn't!  :lol

Why? They sell   "I can't believe it's not butter here in the US" also...

They had that commercial over here too years ago.

I'm glad to hear it. You never know with adverts - the US and UK have different approaches to food.

Have you tried it? It tastes just like margarine. Vile.

I am so very tempted to try to hear some of this before it gets released.  ;D But I think I'm going to wait until I have the cd in my hand, and I can hear the whole thing at once. I tried really hard to do that with TLOS. It didn't work.  :lol

This one song I'm sure will be the 'single' although it doesn't really work like that anymore, nothing wrong with listening to the released single before the album comes out.  Just limit yourself to that one song.

I've honestly played this song about 200 times.

I wake up every morning to it, play it on the way to college, getting crazy  ;D

yeah, I've played the bejesus out of this song. I love the intro so much and find myself singing the end of the chorus more often than not. very catchy.

EDIT: I posted before I read the rest of the thread...

Read subsequent posts.

I like the song but it feels very similar to other things he's cut recently (Christmas album and "What Love Can Do"), sound wise.

I've been listening to it 8 times this morning. It's a wonderful recording.  :)

Happy to be able to enter the site again after many efforts in vain... and all of your posts augur so well for the new album! I think I will sit it out until the official release date, buy it, wait until the late summer evening, connect my headphones, have a cool one at hand, and then enjoy... just like I did in my younger years.

There is a hole in the ozone layer, the internet is the work of Satan, and there are way too many GSM phones. I have spoken.

Yeah, odd that. Maybe because he's used the same musicians and vocalists each time ?  :o

Seriously, if you can't detect the difference in 'feel' between this and anything from the Xmas album (btw, is over 5 years ago legally "recent" ?), well... I mean... prolly best you don't buy the album. Jus' sayin'.  ;D

Dude you're a poet and ya don't even know it.

From my interview with Probyn in October:

Does re-creating Beach Boys vocal parts onstage give you a new appreciation for the originals?

Oh yes. This band knows we will never sound like the Beach Boys. There's something magical about that collection of voices. You can make instruments sound like other bands. If you have the right amp or guitar combination, and if you have the right style, it can be close. But vocals are very much harder to emulate, especially when you get into a group vocal situation.

I think that the current band's vocal sound will work just fine within the jazzy feel of this new album.

BTW: "they don't sound like the beach boys" is not fair criticisim. Who does?

As late as the S&S album those guys were singing terrific group vocals.

The fact that you don't grasp this song on first listen is indicative of the fact that this is something special. Best BW vocal in ages, sophisticated melody and chord progression, ultra cool intro and outro, pretty lyric, richiness of sound... Man who would have thought 30 years ago that BW would still be recording music like this in his late 60s?

after a few days listening my verdict is in ('cos I'm certain everyone cares :-\)...not bad
the one thing I miss most of all from BW, and maybe from music in general, is the possibility of things going wrong. In other words, there never seems to be the chance one might hear a mistake. Everything gets fixed in the mix and it's gettin' to the point where all music (at least major label stuff) is super bland.
This song is a prime example; everything is perfect, and perfect is not what I like about BW. I like coughs and basses that jump in too early. I like missed double-tracking and goofed lyrics. I like the human element that seems to be completely lacking in the stuff I've been hearing lately.
Back to this song...I enjoy it, but hope this isn't the best track on the album.
blah blah blah

I second the above.

and how or why does technically "perfect" equal bland?

When performing Gershwin, it had better be perfect. Otherwise it will be torn to shreds by the critics. This is not your typical Beach Boys record, nor a typical rock and roll record. There could be other reasons for it to be bland, but being technically proficient to play and sing it should not be one of them.

That's not the issue at all with "perfect" recordings - not the performance or performers, so much, but the production etc.

I don't entirely agree in the case of this song, although I still hear the autotune and that is one thing about "perfection" that bugs me. Things like this take the human element out of music, it becomes sterile, there's no room for anything to breathe, etc.

Thank you grillo, you said exactly what I was trying to get across. It's sad how recorded music relies on digital alteration so much these days (saying this while listening to Disney Girls).   :angel:

you are  welcome 8)

Brian's voice isn't what it used to be. To be perfect in performance, autotune may be required. Come on everyone,  the man is 68 years old. Do you really want another Gettin' In Over My Head? I am just happy and thrilled that Brian is still recording.

Brian can sing just fine, no autotune, if he gives a sh*t or is encouraged by others. Autotune is not necessary for him to sound good.

Gettin' in Over My Head's biggest problem with the vocals was they were seemingly always doubled (regardless of if it fit or not), always caked with an absolutely ridiculous amount of reverb, and then buried. Autotune, if it wasn't used, couldn't have made those vocals better.

Yes, he does sing just fine, but just not as great as needed for this type of material. Brian sings Ok, but he is 68 years old. Nobody's pipes are that great at that age. I have no problem with autotune if used sparingly.

I haven't written much about my impressions -- mainly because it took some time to grow on me. This is a much different, more thoughtful kind of song from Brian, where you see him wrestling with a past source and tearing some of it down and building on other parts. In a way, I'm glad for the outside set of ears on the remix. I think a sophisticated, just this side of AC mix is probably what a project like this needs.

But nothing would work unless Brian were interested and involved -- and once he is, look out. I increasingly think, like AGD, that we're in for something quite special. Not TLOS. Not Smile. But something combining the big band ethos of Adult Child with production touches from Today (and of course a few surf licks here or there) and a seasoned team of backing musicians who can play must about anything.

Good times.

It's not used sparingly, and what I'm saying is that if they'd applied a bit of pitch correction to the few notes that needed it, it would sound worlds better than running the entire vocal through an autotune filter. Pitch correction or autotune will not fix sh*t tone - Brian's tone is great here, no computer trickery can create that.

Check out Michael Bauble's hit single from last year ("Haven't Met You Yet") to hear autotune destroy a decent vocal. That sound is everywhere today and it's especially annoying to hear it in supposedly organic genres like "alternative" rock. As far as I'm concerned, the use of autotune on Brian's vocals has been subtle and has not approached the overkill use that is currently so common.

"The Like In I Love You" is quite charming. It's unmistakably Brian. I'd be weeping if you told me thirty years ago that Brian would release a record this inspired in 2010. Over the past decade, I've kind of gotten use to the man putting out some pretty high quality stuff - it's a nice thing to get used to.

Anyone else hear a snippet of "The Spirit of Rock n' Roll" in the intro to "The Like In I Love You"?  Specificially the "as long's there's music we'll all live forever" melody.

Thing is, they didn't. No auto tune on this song or, I'm lead to believe, the whole album.

Oops!

Funny you mention this now. I was watching a clip of Petula Clark from a couple of years back. (she's 78 this year) This is the last song of the gig and she must have looked after her voice compared to Brian. At the end of a show he's struggling.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0T_EPeGj20

Brian's voice is actually in decent shape -- not great, but nowhere near as bad as it could have been (and arguably better than it was 10 or 20 years ago). His tone and phrasing are better than they used to be, and his pitch -- well, some days are better than others. (See the other thread about Elton John -- he's five years younger than Brian and arguably has the voice in worse shape.)

Female performers tend to take better care of their voices, I think, and certainly jazz and standard-type singers like Ms. Clark often sing into their 80s with great accuracy and emotion (and Petula Clark is doing a lot of work in that performance to disguise any age in her voice -- she shouts instead of sings at one point, and her vibrato is a little wobbly, but the spirit and performance make it all fade away).

Yep...That's the first thing I thought too...

Every time I play the song...I sing that snippet during the intro...  :banana

Have you head Joni Mitchells voice laltely? I heard her doing Big Yellow Taxi live a year ago or so and could not believe how worn and broken her voice sounded, her voice in the early 70s was a thing of almost overwhelming beauty, same can be said of Brian's 60's voice.

Somebody famous who knows her who I can't remember but who I read about recently described her as 'one of the last Great Smokers', though I don't think she does now. She acknowledges that her voice has changed but (naively) doesn't ascribe it to smoking, which of course is the reason she hasn't got one any more. Brian should count himself lucky he has a voice at all.

Sounds like something the Cros would say.  :-D

I heard her remake of "Both Sides Now," (which she admittedly recorded 10 years ago) and thought it was, in many ways, better than the original. Her older, husky voice made it incredibly effective.

Bob Dylan to thread!

But yes, Brian's voice is rather incredible considering the sheer hell he's subjected it to over the past 40 yearss - Dylan did barely half of what Brian did to himself and he can barely spit out the words nowadays.

Dylan did barely half of what Brian did to himself? I don't know about THAT. I'd say it was a much smaller margin of difference.

truth, but mr. dylan never had the voice brian did.  I look at paul mccartney, and his voice is going, but you can still hear 1960's paul.  same with dylan really.  Brian's voice is a whole new voice almost.

I thought Dylan was just your usual cocktail of 60's drugs with coke in the 70's and 80's and smoking like a bleeding chimney all the while, coupled with the incessant touring. He was never as far gone as BW, i meant.

The difference is simple. Dylan tours more than 100 dates a year and smokes like a chimney. Same thing with Joni (well, minus the incessant touring).

Every time Brian stopped smoking (late 70s for M.I.U. and mid- to late-90s), his voice noticeably improved afterward. You can do any number of drugs and subject yourself to any amount of abuse, but the two killers for a voice seem to simply be overwork and cigs.

Brian's "current" voice isn't that current either. We just hear more of it. The breaking point seems to be the early 80s -- he went into it still able to phrase reasonably intelligently (MIU again), and came out of it with the BB85 album, where you first hear that shouty, slightly unhinged sound.

My assumption has always been that Brian suffered some sort of permanent brain damage around that time, and he essentially has had to relearn to sing. This is separate from what happened toward the end of the Landy years -- I think that was less about the voice and more about the mind, period. And what he lost then -- mentally, creatively, personally -- has come back very slowly.

Couldn't agree more-I've always noticed his phrasing, style etc. that sounded more like a "learning" process than that of a seasoned singer. Add voice lessons to that thought and there you have it.

What's interesting, to me, is that he has improved that phrasing in the quarter-century since. BW88 to Imagination to TLOS is a pretty good line -- he sounds much more human and emotive by the last of those. Live is hit or miss, but that demo of "Midnight's Another Day" -- his phrasing and sound is just incredible. Hopefully we'll hear some more of that on the Gershwin album.

I hear the early '80s as the breaking point, too. Even as late as the "Cocaine Sessions," despite the huskiness and occasional phlegm, Brian still phrased well and naturally. It does sound like he had to relearn singing. His phrasing on the BWPS tracks (most noticeably on "Surf's Up") is different than the way he originally phrased 'em.  For me his voice was at its worst on "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times." It just sounds so thin and aged there, and even the rough "Still I Dream Of It" demo sounds more "natural" to me than that album's other performances. And even though his voice really is much older now, it sounds more relaxed and full on TLIILY and in recent years than it did in the mid-'90s.

He still smokes!?! Wow.


Agreed. My favorite Brian Wilson 'solo' song is 'Still Dream of It' from the IJWMFTTs album...but I can't really listen to the other songs on that album without cringing....'Do It Again' is a standout though.

Would it be incorrect of me to think that the verses sound more Gershwin and the "gliding in a starless sky" part sounds more Wilson?

I was thinking along those same lines, actually. There's a thread in the Smiley Smilers Who Make Music forum where we were discussing the lyrics and chords, and my opinion on that was the whole thing sounds like either Gershwin changes or Wilson-as-Gershwin changes, with that one little bit being the least Gershwin-like. Not to say BW didn't do other parts in that style to fit the piece, which is entirely possible. But the chords are pretty much typical of that sort of pop music.

Actually, that "gliding" little riff is pure Gershwin. It's the least musically changed part of the whole song.

The reason I was wondering about it was that it so minimizes the actual chords and features just the two-part harmony. With the fuller chords seemingly a second inversion Ab and second inversion Bb7 back and forth (second inversion meaning 5th of the chord on the bottom, for non-musicians)--not to mention "till we found the inner light"--it struck me as not especially typical of the time. But as I said in my initial discussion of it (in the other thread), I'm just guessing.

When it comes to singing, in the recent past, Brian seemed to prefer getting the notes out as quickly as possible, but now he's actually savoring and holding them like he would when he was young.