The Smiley Smile Message Board

Imagine a band filled with people who were orignal members of a super star group. But they either left or were fired before the group was in their prime. Help me fill out this ficticous band for fun...

David Marks - guitar
Peter Best - drums

Syd Barrett.

Does Stuart Sutcliffe count?  I mean, he died before the Beatles were famous, but he apparently sucked as a bassist, so it was just a matter of time before he was booted...

Oh, the original guitarist of the Soul Giants (before Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention name change) would be a good contender.  Don't remember his name though.

Jesus, the Beatles again.  Welcome to the Steve Hoffman board.  :lol ;D ;D ;D :o

As far as I know, Pete Best was asked to leave when the Beatles aren't famous.
David played on the five first albums, with tons of hits, and had been famous with the Beach Boys.
A big difference.
Syd Barett too.

Instead of the obvious drummer, try these:

Doug Samden - drums
John Mayhew - drums

Ray Hunt

That's a great idea...but I would need some biographical background for the band's promo. Please send me a list of all the Beatles hits Pete was on and any helpful background information, such as...how many years he toured, significant TV appearances, chart positions of the singles & LPs he was on, and provide some insight into how his 'sound' influenced the band, etc.  Also, please point me to a place I can find lots and lots of photos of Pete Best with the Beatles...including official band photos, album cover artwork and candid live shots from both the 1960s and more recent shots...just to round out the package.  Any video you may have of Pete onstage with the Beatles performing any of the classic "Pete Best Era" Beatles hits would also be appreciated.

I am not sure if you are serious or making a point. I know that David Marks was still with the Beach Boys when they were famous, and its not a good comparison to Pete Best. And I have read the book 'The Lost Beach Boy' and understand how much a part of the band he was. The only reason I put them together is because they were forgotten.

:) I can't tell if you are upset about this thread or you REALLY want more info on Pete Best. :)

Who did they drum for?

Syd Barett definitely. Since they were much bigger after he left. He is probably a better comparison to David Marks then Pete Best.

What about Leppo from the Ruttles?  :lol

I'm pretty certain Carrie was just making a point, as I remember hearing this almost verbatim from Stebbins when he first started working with David on the book.  I also made the mistake of mentioning the analogy between between Best & Marks, and Jon very quickly pointed out the very same things Carrie did here - which is that there is a world of difference between the two.

Dave Marks = Pete Best is definitely a dumb comparison, or a world of difference as Ed more diplomatically said. Especially if you've read The Lost Beach Boy. Best was gone prior to any commercial notoriety or hit recordings. Gone before a real record contract. David was in the BB's when they became a national phenomenon, played on a bunch of their hit records and helped create the signature early BB's guitar sound. David Marks was in a band that sold millions of records while he was a member. Pete Best was not.

Syd Barret is also a faulty comparison to Pete Best. Syd wrote and sang the first two Pink Floyd hits, and wrote and sang most of their first LP which was a major success. Pete Best played drums in a bar.

Pete Best was the most popular Beatle at the time, there were riots when we he was ousted from the group (George Harrison got a black eye).   He played with them during their important developmental years (Hamburg for example).  He appears in many classic photo's of the band during their early period.   He plays on the Decca audition tapes.  He was with them right up until the 12th hour (so to speak) before being booted. 
And anybody that knows the Beatles story knows about Pete Best.
Whether he's a good/competent drummer is up to the snobs to decide I guess.

Yes but the point is he played in the Beatles BEFORE they became recording stars. If the Beatles ended the day Pete Best left they would be remembered as a great CLUB band with no records. If the Beach Boys ended the day Dave Marks left they would be remembered as a band with four classic hit LPs, and a bunch of classic hit singles, not to mention successful ARENA concerts, and the biggest rock band of 1963. The Beatles with Pete Best were the biggest band in Liverpool(that's like being the biggest band in San Bernadino). The Beach Boys with Dave Marks were the biggest band in America. No comparison. Pete never made the big time, but he played in a great band that became gigantic after he was gone.

Samden (or Samdom) - pre-Moon Who
Mayhew - pre-Collins Genesis

Man, f*** the Beatles.

What's so great about the Beatles? All they did was rip off The Rutles. :lol

Peter Green should be a good fit. And I like Fleetwood Mac's stuff before 1975. :)

I think the original question needs to be read again. "... left or were fired before the group was in their prime[/i]" is the relevant phrase.

For me, that means Summer Days onwards for the BBs, Rubber Soul onwards for the Fabs.  In which case mention of both Dave and Pete Best, no matter how far apart their stories are, both fit the criteria.

But that's just my interpretation. Everyone's entitled...

No question that they are a minority around here...but there are undoubtedly many people who would consider Surfin USA, Shut Down, Lonely Sea, In My Room, Catch A Wave, Surfer Girl, Hawaii, Little Deuce Coupe, Spirit of America, Our Car Club, Be True to Your School etc...a good part of the Beach Boys "prime". And it is very arguable that Dave did not leave "before" their prime, but during their early prime...and certainly within the early stage of prime success. Pete Best had no part in anything that can even be hallucinated as anything near the Beatles prime, and no whiff of their prime success either. So for you to say "both fit the criteria" is definitely a subjective interpretation of what is prime and what is not.

I just want to chime in on the Pete Best thing because like everything concerning the Beatles, there's a lot of myth surrounding what exactly went down. Now, I know Pete Best. He's a very, very sweet guy -- he's LITERALLY exactly what you picture him being like. He is also NOTHING in the least like Lennon, McCartney, Harrison or Ringo. The accent, kinda -- apart from that, nothing. He was mismatched on every level. Even the type of good looks he had didn't fit.

This myth that Pete Best was the "most popular" member of the Beatles in Liverpool has been proven to be entirely incorrect. First of all, let's get things straight -- I have yet to meet ANYONE (who was not directly burned or left behind ingloriously by the band, or by extension NEMS) that ever felt that Lennon and McCartney weren't always the ultimate draw of the Beatles in the pre-1963 era.

The fact remains that Pete Best was forgotten immediately. In a fortnight. Name one group -- including THE BEATLES -- that loses their "most popular" member and b-e-c-o-m-e-s THE BEATLES.

Well, Syd Barrett was the one in Pink Floyd who everyone thought had the star potential and they went on to greater success without him.

Let's just amend that then to, 'he was a popular member of the group' - maybe you'd concede that?

I believe John Lennon himself was quoted as saying (at least once) that the Beatles "prime" was their days before their success - to him, the early rocking, pre-Ringo Beatles was their prime.  

What "prime" is can be different for everyone.

However, bands like the Beatles, Beach Boys...could be said to have more than one prime.  The Beatles had a consistent prime from stage to stage.  The Beach Boys fluctuated a bit more, but still (IMO) had several different "primes".

PREACH IT!  :-D

Did the Beatles ever sing about sub sandwiches? I don't think so.

Does Brian Jones fit in this thread anywhere?

Ian Stewart on Piano.

David Sancois (left the E-Street band during the recording of Born to Run - always thought he was better than Roy Bittan) on keyboards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt-RrnDESVo   Listen to the organ solo starting at about 3:35

Mick Avory (of the Kinks) was a drummer for the Stones prior to Charlie Watts

Maybe I should say 'forgotten' founding members of bands. Even though David Marks was on 5 albums with several hits, he has been unjustly forgotten. Syd Barret not as much, but most Pink Floyd fans don't immediately think of him. Pete Best, I really didn't know much about him when I started this thread, except that he was the Beatles drummer when they became the Beatles (Silver Beatles in 1960). I don't mean to say that everyone of these founding members have the exact same story, or the same worth to the band. David Marks was somewhere half way between Syd Barret and Pete Best. But they were all founding members of bands that became super groups and were largely forgotten. When most people think of the Beach Boys, they picture Al Jardine, not David Marks. I am glad that Jon wrote 'The Lost Beach Boy' to show how much David meant to the early Beach Boys and I am sorry if there has been in just comparison to him and Pete Best, but that wasn't really my point. Maybe, in the end, this thread would choose to replace Pete Best with another drummer, which is what this vain topic is really all about.

I may be opening myself up here to ridicule but......could someone please post a Top Ten Beatles album with Pete Best on the cover?

(He doesn't have to be holding a surfboard!)

Michael Bryan Murphy sang the lead vocals on REO Speedwagon's "Ridin' The Storm Out", and was then replaced by Kevin Cronin.

John Curulewski played guitar on "Lady" and "Suite Madame Blue" by Styx, then left the band and was replaced by Tommy Shaw.

Gregg Rolie played keys and sang on "Feelin' That Way" and "Wheel In The Sky" by Journey before giving way to Jonathan Cain.

There must be thousands of guys who left bands while still in the bar band stages.  

I wasn't trying to give you a hard time, OK, maybe a little...but to be honest, while I understand your intentions were not meant to be disrespectful...the Pete Best comparison only serves to reinforce that false myth that David didn't play a role in, or missed out on, the Beach Boys.  Its true his name may not be as well known as the Wilson's, or even Al's...but you would be hard-pressed to find an adult who hasn't seen David's face or heard his guitar at some point in their life. As someone who chose a career in music, that's quite an accomplishment. So, to be compared with someone who had NO involvement with the Beatles success, it does insult his most successful body of work.  If any random musician had the amount of success David has had in his life, they would get respect...but for some strange reason, just because the BB went on to do 'even more' great work without him, the great work David did somehow gets discounted. 

Exactly my point, you can't equate the late 1963 Beach Boys (and therefore David Marks) with a band still in the bar band stages.  

I think that David's, ah, exit from the spotlight in historical terms had an overly generous assist from someone who it suited down to the ground.  ;D

Let's put this Marks/best nonsense into a statistical perspective:

David Marks played on -

five Beach Boys singles, all of which charted Top 50: three charted Top 10, one Top 20. Additionally, of the B sides of those singles, one charted Top 20, two Top 30...

four Beach Boys albums, all of which charted Top 40: three were Top 10 sellers.

Pete Best played on -

no Beatles singles*...

no Beatles albums.

So, enough.

[* and before anyone says a word, the Tony Sheridan recordings were not as The Beatles, even though they were later released as such]

George Tickner-Guitar...played on the first Journey album, then quit the band to go to med school.


And also speaking of Journey, Gregg Rolie sang the lead vocal on a Peter Green Song...I'm sure most everyone here knows which one I'm talking about.

Well he did indirectly play on an "album" under the Beatles name - Anthology 1. Though obviously that's a collection of unreleased recordings 30 years after but you get the idea annd if you wanted to be really picky you could say also the "grey-market" Decca Audtion Album which you can buy at Amazon here...

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Decca-Sessions-Beatles-Pete/dp/B000VJ3BYC

  :lol

One guy who did leave before his band got huge has been missed so far. What about Al Jardine? Does he count in this thread? ;D

You want picky ? I got picky.  ;D

David was in the Beach Boys late February 1962-October 5th 1963: how many singles and albums did they record and release during that period ? How many charted ?

Pete was in The Beatles August 12th 1960-August 16th 1962: how many singles and albums did they record and release during that period ? How many charted ?

Game, set and, I do believe, match.  :)

I did say give it 30 years AGD...  ;D

Am I able to edit the topic title to David Marks and Syd Barret so as to get back to my main point?   ::)

Re: That Amazon Decca CD -- back in 1982 the Decca material was "grey market" for about a nanno-second. In 2010, it's pure bootleg.

Black Magic Woman, right?

If anything, Al is the Pete Best of the Beach Boys...only Al came back to the group.

Our mythical supergroup is missing a bassist and percussionist so I therefore present

Michael Dempsey the original bassist for The Cure left after the first album to be replaced by Simon Gallop. Bet he's regretted that once or twice over the past 30 years or so...

Steve Peregrine Took used to hit the bongos and make funny noises in Tyrannosaurs Rex before getting kicked out by Marc Bolan. 6 months later they changed their name to T-Rex and sold millions, Doh!

Also,
Jack Sherman was the original guitarist (at least in the studio) for Red Hot Chilli Peppers but got fired after the first album. God knows where he is today?

Anthony Phillips quit Genesis just before they had any success due to chronic stagefright.

Yup!

Some crazy man created this video that I found on Youtube: If the Beatles continued with Pete Best on drums...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEVUyLUNQ2M

Totally strange.

:lol:lol:lol

those pete best videos are fucking classic! i seriously couldnt stop laughing after hearing a day in the life...

Imagine what A Day in The Life would sound like with Pete Best and Stu Sutcliffe  ;D

I don't think Peter Green would count as Fleetwood Mac scored one UK number 1 single with him at the helm (Albatross) and had 3 hit l albums and seven hit singles before he left.....Greenie wasn't forgotten or unknown....at least in the UK. OK so Fleetwood Mac went stratospheric some 5 years after Green left..but they'd reached the top with Green prior to that.

Syd Barrett only fully contributed to one Pink Floyd record but it was a hit, as were the first two singles which he wrote. However given that the band then existed for nearly 30 years without his input I could see him being on the list.

John Mayhew...yup...totally with that one. Or John Silver & Chris Stewart (his predecessors). Ant Phillips, the original Genesis guitarist.

How about Peter Banks of Yes...played on their first 2 LPs which didn't achieve any success...left and was replaced by Steve Howe who helped shape The Yes Album...and the rest his history.

Got a bass player...Bob Brunning...played on a couple of unsuccessful 45's and a few gigs with Fleetwood Mac before they presuaded John McVie to join.

I noticed a lot of Beatles/Beach Boys comparisons in this thread so I thought I would add a few more:

1) The Beatles were once more popular than Jesus according to an American teen magazine.

2) The Beach Boys were way more famous in America (before 1964 of course).

3) The Beach Boys recorded way more albums than the Beatles ever did (especially after 1969).

4) In 1967, Sgt. Pepper's and Magical Mystery Tour sold more copies than Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and Best Of The Beach Boys Vol. 2 combined!

5) In 1970 there were more members of the Beach Boys than there were in the Beatles (true for 1965 too!).

6) The 1967 singles "All You Need Is Love" and "Hello Goodbye" outsold "Then I Kissed Her" and "Gettin' Hungry".

7) The Beach Boys sold more albums in 1974 than the Beatles.

8) The Beach Boys performed more concerts than the Beatles in 1968.

I'll stop. That could be a whole (funny) thread to itself.  :lol

Jason Cropper...Weezer's original guitarist.  Booted during sessions for the first album, all tracks he recorded on erased.

I thought he played on My Name Is Jonas? Or perhaps I imagined that he did for some reason, I'm not sure.

Off topic I know but the first two Weezer albums are immense, Blue Album especially - a near perfect pop album. It's a pity that after Pinkerton most of their albums and songs aren't very good, bar The Greatest Man That Ever Lived from the Red Album, that song is immense with all the different styles bledning in to each other and also has some very Wilsonian moments too.

Paulos, we have similar tastes!

Cropper's name stayed on Jonas cause he wrote the acoustic intro that they kept. He recorded some tracks, but not all...didnt matter cause Rivers recorded EVERYTHING in a couple of days.

RIP Weezer.

For a twist, consider Randy Meisner.  He quit Poco during the first album; and ended up joining the Eagles.