The Smiley Smile Message Board

Check this out:

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?from=salesummary&intObjectID=5331382&sid=f2568ed0-6111-48bd-91c1-f8d66 (http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?from=salesummary&intObjectID=5331382&sid=f2568ed0-6111-48bd-91c1-f8d66)

Something not quite right, I think you'll agree.

Strange. Brian married Marilyn on Dec 7, 1964 (right?), yet here we have a letter, apparently dated Dec 8, 1964 – the very next day – to another woman, sent from the Miramar Hotel in Santa Barbara, and stating that he's been there a week trying to get his head straight over this woman.  So where did Brian and Marilyn's wedding take place the previous day? In his hotel room in Santa Barbara?  I don't think so.... according to AGD's site, it was in LA, which is well south of SB, right?

Scenario:

Marilyn: "Brian, watcha doin'? Don't you know we have to consumate this marriage for it to be official? Come back to bed!"

Brian: "Won't be long, Honey, just writing to my fiancé back in Manhatten Beach..."

I hope this auction house has done its work authenticating this...   I have no doubt that AGD can pepper further holes in this.

'Xactly - Brian & Marilyn were married at the LA City Court House, December 7th 1964, about 80 miles down the coast from Santa Barbara. Incidentally, the Miramar Hotel is actually in Montecito, not SB itself.

Didn't one of the books say that Brian took off and disappeared shortly after he and Marilyn got married?
Maybe "Betsy" was a code name for Marilyn (but why)? A PO Box is a bit strange.

Very odd.

Also, the cancellations, which would show the date and city,  have been removed from the photos. One envelope has been doctored further, it appears; there is an Asian stamp with Asian characters in the cancellation.

There is some weird stuff in there....

REALLY interesting stuff. If these aren't real they sure as hell perfected BW's signature and handwriting.
Hmm.

Well, the one with the Asian cancellation and stamp (it almost looks like the Imperial Hotel, Tokyo) does have "USA" on it after the usual address.  Could it have been written from an Asian tour?  Clearly, some of the others are sent from the road.  Perhaps we're misreading that date.

Certainly isn't an American stamp... and why airmail envelopes ?

Good point... problem is, the first Asian tour Brian went on with the band was in 1979.

I disagree.   There are a number of suspicious things about the handwriting -- including the mixing and matching of cursive "s" with printed "s" in the same sentence, no circle over the cursive "i" like Brian did back then, etc.  Plus Brian printed more often than writing cursive, and when he did he used a combination of upper case and lower case letters.   None of that here.

Zooming in, the December 8, 1964 letter appears to be a letter FROM Miss Winans to Brian -- look at the salutation at the top.  Why would she still have the letter if it was sent to Brian?  And she's calling him "Mr. Wilson"!  Does that sound like a couple romantically involved???  And then look at the letter to the left, which is supposed to be from Brian to her -- the handwriting is virtually the same, including the mixing of cursive "s" with printed "s"!

And as AGD pointed out, that Asian stamp only has 1/4th of a cancellation, and is suspiciously placed right in the corner where there's no overlap with the envelope on the top or right.  A real cancellation would extend over the stamp and the envelope.

I'll stake my reputation on this being a fake.

Lee

Lee -- He's writing "Mrs. Wilson" in that letter. If you look further into the letter, he's still calling her Betsy. It's part of his fantasy of marrying her, apparently.

Has anyone ever heard of Betsy Winans before?

Ballad of Ole' Betsy?

Excellent point. The writing is not Brian's - too spiky.


Said page is in a different hand... which is still not Brian's. I'm with Lee - fakes.

Which is exactly what I've told Christies in an email.  ;D

The Gender Genie -- a very handy program -- says the author of the letters is almost certainly female.

Here's the text I entered:


Try it out:
http://bookblog.net/gender/genie.php

We're good.  ;D

Just tried it out. Apparently a woman also wrote the first verse of "I Just Wasn't Made for these Times"  :-\

If they are fakes, which is of course very likely, why are they so strange?  I feel like fake stuff is always too perfect.

Has somebody notified the auction house yet?

Just speculating... a high school girl on vacation with her parents writing letters back home to herself penned as her fantasy unrequited true love Brian Wilson?  Scary strange...

Well, we're getting there...

One more thing. I don't think Zip Codes were in effect at that time, but the two digit postal codes were used in addresses. For instance the Zip Code for Manhattan Beach is 90266. If those letters were mailed from those distant cities, at that time, they should have been addressed as: ..."Manhattan Beach, 66, California." Those postal code numbers were not often left off addresses (as I recall...what do I know, I was  kid back then).

I noticed that too.  Between torn off stamps and cancellations, and what appear to be a steamed-off cancelled foreign stamp put on a fresh envelope, I can't be sure that any of the envelopes pictured was ever actually mailed.

I certainly did, Stanley.  ;D

Zip codes were introduced July 1st 1963, but they were non-mandatory: became mandatory after 1967. Prior to that, yes, a 2-digit code was in force. So, points to a non-US hoaxer ?

Christies is in London, literally up the rail track from me - maybe I should offer my services, based on what we've debated here.  ;D

Not as excellent as yours my good man!  I agree, Brian's handwriting was very "loopy" -- especially his "B's".

An envelope without a postal code would likely not be returned to sender, but typically you would see it written on the envelope by the mail sorter.  No evidence of that here.

You should offer your services to Sotheby's and Christies -- you could become the Frank Caiazzo of Beach Boys autograph authentication!   ;)

This is the email I've just sent:

Sir,

I am regarded as an authority on The Beach Boys, and having viewed the lot as shown on your website, compared known examples of Brian Wilson's handwriting from 1964 with the letters, compared the events stated in or inferred by said letters with his known movements and conferred with equally knowledgeable Beach Boys experts via email and message boards, our conclusion is that the letters as shown are not genuine.

I will compile a list of the evidence against their authenticity for you tomorrow, but on the evidence as shown, and were I you, I would withdraw the lot from the sale and carefully study the provenance provided.

Regards,

Andrew G. Doe

That's telling em AGD. A few things jumped out at me immediately, first the amount of writing. Brian has never been a wordy guy, short notes yeah...but these longish letters seem out of character. The writing, as Lee and AGD have mentioned looks a little un-Brian like. To me it is too neat, flows too smoothly, and is put together in too nice or careful of a hand to be Brian. And what was he doing at the Sands Hotel in Vegas in Dec. '64? That also seemed out of character. Has the name Betsy Winans cropped up anywhere else in Brian-lore? To me its a very very long-shot that these could be real, I'd say 90% against. Just doesn't smell right.

http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/2009/4/30/164234/916/hotels/The_Miramar_Hotel_in_Santa_Barbara_is_Back_on_Track




Montecito is in Santa Barbara  ;D

Yeah, and just what was he doing in AMARILLO, TEXAS?

To be fair, they did play gigs in Amarillo and Vegas in 1964.  :)

Here's the summary of the problems with the letters - comments, please, before I send it to Christies:

1 - the handwriting: when compared with examples of Brian Wilson's known handwriting from 1964, it is obvious that neither the page dated Becember 8th 1964, nor the page labelled '2' was written by him. Further, the handwriting on the two pages differs markedly from each other.

2 - the envelopes: the stamp shown on the lower envelope is Asian, probably Japanese. The Beach Boys did not tour Asia until early 1966, and brian Wilson didn't tour there until 1979. Further, they are incorrectly addressed - in America in 1963, there was a 2-digit area code in operation, thus the correct address would be Manhattan Beach 66, California. Without this the letters would most likely be returned to sender. Also, why use airmail envelopes for internal mail ?

3 - the text: the letter dated December 8th 1964 - which by the way is addressed to Mrs. Wilson, not Betsy - states that Brian Wilson was at the Miramar Hotel in Santa Barbara and that he had "came up last week". The problem is that the previous day, the 7th (a Monday), Brian married Marilyn Rovell in Los Angeles. The text of the letter labelled '2' is obviously written to his new wife Marilyn and not any girlfriend - but as this letter isn't in brian Wilson's handwritng either, this is a moot point !

4 - the 'girlfriend': never, in my 35-odd years of being a Beach Boys fan/historian/researcher/author, have I hard of anyone in Brian's life called Betsy Winans, and neither has anyone else I've asked. We know our stuff. We know Brian's high school senior year grades... we know what Dennis Wilson was wearing when The Beach Boys were told they'd beaten The Beatles in a World's Best group fan poll in 1966. But none of us have heard of this girl.

Looks good.  I love that--"we know Brian's high-school grades."  We are quite a bunch...

Sometimes I scare me...  :o

Well done Andrew.  That summarizes the main points.  One small note -- in the '60s you could send a domestic letter via Air Mail -- it was the equivalent of today's Priority Mail -- more expensive, but it would get there a couple of days faster, and with more precise handling.  It was kinda like traveling in First Class on an airplane -- same destination, but a bit more TLC.  Today a large portion of what we in the States call First Class Mail travels by airplane anyway, but back then, with air cargo space scarce, it was a luxury, and most mail traveled by truck or train.  Quoting the ubiquitous Wikipedia:

"Domestic air mail became obsolete in 1975, and international air mail in 1995, when the USPS began transporting First Class mail by air on a routine basis."

Thus ends today's history lesson on the United States Postal Service!   :lol

Lee

But would it still be handled more precisely without the area code ?

BTW, Ian & I have done this before - there was a BB poster up for auction in the States last year that was entirely incorrectly described: wasn't anything like as old as was claimed, so between us we got it pulled from the sale.

The power...  :ninja

Andrew, I would also ask them to closely inspect the envelope with the foreign stamp and see if the cancellation stamp bleeds over onto the envelope.  Otherwise it's a transplanted stamp.

Will do - actually, the handwriting aside, the stamp is the strongest evidence of a hoax - whoever did this doesn't know their BB touring history.

So, none of us, then.  :lol

I will say -- some of the handwriting on the envelopes and in the signatures is very Brian-like. I realize that it doesn't seem likely he wrote the letters, but you can't help but wonder. And what kind of procedure does Christie's have for verifying something like this?

Also: Has anyone saved images of those checks written by Brian to a maid in the early 90s that were on eBay a few years ago? I recall that handwriting being especially freaky.

Brian's cursive post-Landy had deteriorated considerably as a result of the drugs he was being pumped full of. Can't compare '64 Brian with '91 Brian - essentially, two different people. To my mind, none of the writing on the envelopes looks like Brian - as Lee said, his hand was more rounded. For his early 60s hand, check the box set booklet and the note for Dave.

So...um...what were Brian's high school grades?

Well, it looks to me like the letter on the right is in Blue pen, and the one on the left is in Black.  Also if you look closely at the letter on the left marked 2, you can see the writing showing through from the flip side.  So IMO, two different letters.  Take that for what its worth. Not sure if everyone already implied that....

English - B
Government - B
Phys Ed - A
Spanish III - B
Senior Problems (Personal Psychology) - B
Piano & Harmony - C

The C was because for the sonata assignment, apparently he handed in "Surfin" instead, so for that he got an F, and overall a C, according to Fred Morgan, the teacher.

Andrew -  You should delete the above statment from your letter.

Letters without zones or Zip codes were not returned to the sender.  The zone or Zip code helped to expeidte the correct delivery of the letter, but a letter would still be delivered without the zone or Zip code, assuming the street address or PO Box, as well as city and state, were written correctly.  This is still true today, although. of course, zones were supplanted by Zip codes in the sixties, with the two of them coexisting during the time of the letters in question.  In the sixties there were two well publicised cases of successful deliveries of letters to magazines where the sender did not use any text or numbers whatsoever in the address.  One was delivered to Playboy magazine in Chicago using only the Playboy rabbit head logo for the address, and the other was delivered to Mad magazine in New York City using only a drawing of Mad's mascot Alfred E. Neuman for the address.

Thanks for that - I wasn't sure, hence my qualification of 'most likely' - if Christies get back to me, I'll tell them about it.

One further question re: the postal code - the 2-digit system for large cites was introduced in 1943, so I would assume that, even if it weren't mandatory by 1964, it was habitually used as a matter of course and that for someone not to use it would be unusual, especially from abroad (allegedly). Fair comment ?

Just that, if Christies ask me for more detail, I want to sound as if I know WTF I'm talking about.  ;D

Just in from Christies:

Dear Mr Doe
 
Thank you for your email, containing comprehensive reasoning to why you believe the letters in lot 11 of sale 5554 are not genuine.  I have read the points you have raised with much interest, and would agree that each point is a valid argument, in questioning the validity of the correspondence.
 
As a result I am going  to pass on the points raised to the vendor, to ask if she has any further provenance, that may have been provided when they were purchased from Sotheby's auction house in 1999.  I would hope that through due diligence carried out when they were originally placed for sale that suitable explanations will be forthcoming.  Of course should no reasonable information be available we will withdraw the letters from sale accordingly.
 
Once again thank you for your messages.  Should you have any questions or comments please do let me know.
 
Kind regards

Neil Roberts

... and my response:

Dear Mr. Roberts,

Thank you for your prompt response, and for taking our conclusions on board. As hardened Beach Boys fans, we would be deeply interested in knowing - if this is possible - the provenance attached to this lot. I have examined the images on Christies website once more, and I would feel quite happy to state under oath in a court of law that these letters as presented (i.e. written by Brian Wilson in 1964) cannot possibly be genuine. If the lot is being presented for viewing in toto, I would be most interested in seeing the other letters referred to in the text. I live an hour's train journey from London and it would be no trouble for me to attend a viewing.

Regards,

Andrew G. Doe

You're doing the Lord's work, AGD.

Is there any other roughly contemporaneous BW handwriting sample besides the note to Dave? If that's all we have, it's still a reasonable counter example, but another would be interesting.

The marriage date issue, the stamp and the handwriting -- any one of those on its own could be explained away (maybe Carl was taking dictation [har]), but together ...

That's it! It was Carl, just like the handwritten SMiLE track listing!

Nah, I'm just a messenger... or a hard-workin' guy.  ;)


Very little - as Jon astutely noted, Brian wasn't a great letter writer, which is another strike against those pages being legit. There's just too much of it.

Maybe it was someone in the band, or entourage, who was pranking a gullible fan?

This question would best be answered by someone older than I, and I'm pretty darn old, but my recollection from my younger years is that a zone was used in an address if a person knew the recipient's zone number, but zones were often absent on a letter.  I lived in San Diego 15, California, which later became San Diego, CA 92115, but back in the era of zones I think a lot of mail was sent without indicating the zone, simply because the sender was unaware of the zone, and had no easy way to look it up.

Gentlemen, give yourselves around of applause: we have achieved a result.  ;D

"Dear Mr Doe
 
I am writing to let you know that we have taken the decision to withdraw the questioned lot from sale.  I have been in communication with the vendor and unfortunately she is not able to provide any specific provenance other than that she bought it from an auction held by Sotheby's in 1999.  For you records I attach a copy of that sales lot description.
 
I appreciate you getting in touch and letting me know of your concerns, as of course we have no intention or want to be seen to be selling questionable items within our sales.  Usually the fact that an item has been sold via another reputable auction is sufficient, however occasionally the odd item can pass through undetected.  I hope you do not mind me asking but I would appreciate it if you would allow me to keep your name on file, so that should we be approached with any other Beach Boys items I could ask your opinion prior to placing it for sale, to help such a scenario happening again. In addition if you have any examples of Brian's hand writing for this period that you would be able to send me copies of for future reference this would also be much appreciated.
 
I trust this is in order and once again thank you for your information.
 
Kind regards 
 
Neil"

Like I said... we're good.  :woot

Ahhhhh a good old Sotheby's sale/auction...remember the controversy years ago about a set of "unheard Jimi Hendrix tapes" that turned out to be a bunch of stuff he did with Curtis Knight before he became famous?

Good work!

Well done!  :thumbsup

Neil at Christies sent me scans from the 1999 Sotheby's (New York) catalog where the vendor originally bought the letters. You're gonna love it... can I upload those images from my laptop, or does it have to have a web-based origin ?

Can't wait to see them!

Yeah, the scans have to be linked to from a image-hosting site.

http://www.tinypic.com is the easiest.

Holy macaroni! I am on pins and needles.

Here's an extract from one of "Brian's" letters. Remember, the claim is that these letters were written in 1964:

“We had our concert with The Beatles and, Betsey, John & Paul are so nice. We talked for a long time about American girls and American performers. They really are a couple of really neat guys. I really enjoyed working with them. Paul asked me how I got the ideas for my songs and if my friends encourage or inspired any of my writings. I told him that the ideas just somehow got in my head.”

Fish... barrel...  ;D

Well done Andrew!  So do the letters include Brian talking about his conversation with Abraham Lincoln as well?   :lol :lol :lol

Haven't got to that part yet...  ;)

job very well done.....

Excellent work, AGD!   

I'd feel sorry for the poor sap who would have paid a fortune for these letters only to find out they're frauds had the auction not been stopped thanks to your efforts.

OK, here we go - enjoy (to enlarge some of them, right click then 'view image'):

(http://i46.tinypic.com/einwu9.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/28tjq6d.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/97pjb5.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2rx7kgz.jpg)

Wow. I really thought that these reputable auction houses did some research before putting something on the block. A little research. Any research.

The vendor bought them from Sotheby's of New York in 1999. I'm thinking they're going to be getting a phone call real soon.  ;D

Ten grand?

For this???

I will say, Christie's did a great job of showing the least fake-looking bits. Because the images and quotes from this Sotheby's stuff are insanely, instantly bad and easy to discredit.

I can't imagine anyone paying any sizable amount of money for these horrible fakes.   Who buys this type of merchandise without knowing even a bit the the history of the parties involved.  Like a Beach Boys - Beatle concert that never occurred?

I think the finger needs to be pointed at Sotheby's New York, who handled the sale in 1999... and remember, if someone hadn't noticed this on Christies site, we wouldn't have got involved, and the sale would have gone ahead with no-one any the wiser.

It's a complete shot in the dark, but I've emailed Sotheby's New York about it. Not expecting any useful reply... but you never know.

And hey... this could be the start of a whole new career - international authenticator of Beach Boys memorabilia.  8)

Nice detective work, AGD & co.!

Andrew, you don't know how interesting the reference to "Marymount girls" is in the letter allegedly from Dennis.  Marymount High School is a private, Catholic, all-girls, college-preparatory high school located in the Holmby Hills/Bel Air neighborhood of Los Angeles at 10643 Sunset Boulevard.  The school also has a 2-year co-ed junior college (Marymount College), which in 1960 was moved to Palos Verdes Peninsula.  Check out this webpage for alumni of Marymount High School:

http://www.classmates.com/directory/school/Marymount%20High%20School?org=17954761 (http://www.classmates.com/directory/school/Marymount%20High%20School?org=17954761)

Scroll about halfway down and there she is:  Betsy Winans, Class of 1965...  (aka Betsy Winans Bodley)

On the other hand, it would be fairly simple to create a ficticious profile on classmates.com, so it could be part of the whole ruse.

If someone is brave enough, you can send Betsy a private message through classmates.com...  :o

Lee

Interesting indeed... but still doesn't explain away the points we raised, nor the inescapable fact that the handwriting samples we've seen from the lot are nothing like Brian's.  ;D

Regarding your final sentence, well, who would ?

Damn right.  ;D

I'm still wondering if the whole thing was dreamed-up fantasy of a high school girl, writing letters to herself as Brian and Dennis.  But that doesn't explain how the letters got to an auction house to shaft someone out of 10 grand...

Lee

I should have figured as much!

And if you really want to continue the detective work, you could call the school itself.  I believe U.S. privacy laws will still allow you to confirm a student's attendance and graduation.

Lee

That's exactly what Brad Elliott & I did for Alan - he called Ferris U the same day I emailed them, much to the amusement of the girl on the phone, who'd just looked up the dates for one Jardine, AC about ten minutes previously.  ;D

Probably the most amusing aspect of that whole affair was that it took someone 40 years to think of doing it !

Sometimes the blindingly obvious answer is the answer.  :)

I love these "detective work" threads.  :) Good work AGD, and all who contributed to this thread. I love how they want to add AGD's name on file.  ;D

Something about this caught my interest. the bit about "quoting from two Beatles songs PS I Love You and All My Loving, and two of his own songs Surfer Girl and Don't Worry Baby". We all know the "just a hard working guy" quote. Now, WHY would Brian Wilson quote from his own work? Brian does not seem like the type who has ever had to big of an ego. Being bold enough to quote from his own work seems very uncharactoristic of him*.

*Except in interviews, when he was speaking about specific points of a song.

Hey great work guys.

Here's a Brian autograph from early 1964.  The fake is nothing like his writing, not even the 'B'.

http://img14.imageshack.us/i/autograph2.jpg/

I also liked the reference to "Ron" playing guitar and drums?!?  The perpetrator probably picked up Ron Swallow's name from an old program, not realizing that he was just the road manager (AGD, unless you have any evidence that Ron occasionally got behind the drum kit when Dennis was singing -- I always understood that Brian took over drums, and Al took over bass when Dennis was up front).

Lee

Either that... or they're misremembering there was a Ron Wilson who drummed for a surf band.  ;D

That would depend on the particular gig or year. I have photo evidence from '63 of Dave playing drums while Dennis is up front, Al on bass...no Brian there. We also have evidence from '64 of Brian on drums and Al on bass while Dennis is up front. What we don't have is evidence of what they did when Dennis went up front in '63 when both Dave and Brian were there, and Al wasn't. Dave says he usually played the drums in this scenario too.

I understand Carol played drums for them back then.

Played all five instruments on almost everything ::)

Didn't she also start Motown with Barry Gordy?

I found this topic highly amusing! The way these letters were analysed and it's authenticity was unmasked, deserves high praise.
Compliments for all involved.