The Smiley Smile Message Board

Discuss, review and rate Wouldn't It Be Nice?: My Own Story, released October 1, 1991.

(http://www.smileysmile.net/images/albums/wouldntitbenicebook.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060183136/)

I like it.

Sure, it's twisted, but you do get some great anecdotes, hopefully some of which are true. My favorite part is Brian's overnight trek through the wilderness. I thought the weightloss portion of the book was very motivational and inspirational, but the overall angry tone of the book is a turn off, and the Landy worshipping plain creepy.

It is my understanding that Brian did not write word-one of this; it was all done by Landy with Todd Gold. Hence the creepiness and Landy worship.

That book is BOGUS!

This book is an embarassment in every possible way. Brian's human, but he's not capable of that kind of hatred.

A lot of it is from Brian, if you consider stories told by him to Gold.
The Stones and Elvis anecdotes are him, for sure.
But other stories, such as the Alice/Iggy story, are from Danny Hutton.
And other stories are from other people, all mashed together into Brian's "voice".
From Landy's entrance in, it's pretty much all by Landy, though.
Plenty of bad info cribbed unashamedly from other books.
Still an essential read.
2 and a half.

I've been trying to find a copy for entertainments sake.

Brian's personal obersations, in this book, about Jan Berry in the studio, are very revealing.

1. The connection through Lou Adler has been affirmed by Lou . . . to me, and to other interviewers.

2. Brian makes a few powerful statements about Jan as a producer . . . and when you add those to what Brian said about Jan, on the record, in 2002 . . . it helps affirm that not all details of Wouldn't It Be Nice are bunk.

In 2002, Brian acknowledged that Jan Berry was the one who taught him how to cut cleaner backing tracks in the studio . . . which is a nice tag to what he says in WIBN.

Because of the Landy situation . . . the co-writer situation with Gold . . . and all of the acrimony surrounding the group . . . people just tend to write the whole thing off. But there is some very useful and accurate information in that book (along with all the bad stuff). Depends what you're looking for.

M.

the definitive Brian Wilson bio has yet to be written, and WIBN is not it.

Funny how some people who attack this book are nevertheless all to eager believe the parts of it which suit their own agenda.  The bit about Brian trying give Carnie and Wendy heroin for instance.

Maybe they believe those parts because they're confirmed by other sources ?

I actually enjoyed reading this book. I took it all with a grain of salt, and it's a shame that Brian didn't write it, but I loved reading about his experiences growing up and being anxious around girls (and eventually courting the Rovells) and all that.

I think the book is useful up to the point where it obviously becomes an informercial for Gene Landy.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure (not having the thing open before me, you understand) there are other parts confirmed by other sources that they're not so willing to believe.

Mark Moore and Pirate probably have the most balanced view of the "auto"bio.

Yes, he didn't actually write it , but guess what folks? No celeb actually writes their own autobiography! That's why you always a second author credited!

I used to be among those who dismissed this book outright, until I actually re-read it.  Gold does try to write it in Brian's voice (if not his verbiage) up to about 1976, and then he writes it in Landy's voice.  And although Gold plaguarizes Steven Gaine's reporting in H & V (is Gaines the only person who DIDN'T sue over WIBN?), there are some things that could have only come from Brian - particularly the SMiLE-era. Listen to BWPS, Maybe Brian was trying to communicate what his initial artistic intentions were when describing his LSD flashbacks?

If you're a newbie and you find this book, get it, read it, and decide for yourself how much is true and how much of it isn't.

1, Brian has stated under other in court that his only involvement was to "drop off a bunch of tapes" to Gold. I'm reliably informed that in those tapes, the majority of Brian's answers were "yes", "no" or "I don't remember". Gold himself admitted as mich on a Billboard article.

2. Gold stole large chunks of the Gaines and Leaf books and put the words of others into Brian's mouth. He then justified it by saying he had to flesh out Brian's sometimes terse responses.

The most entertaining BB book out there. 5 stars.

Got mine used of amazon.com for like $12 total.

it was a good read and I wasn't even aware of the ghostwriting and "lies" until after. Still, a great 'n sad time while reading it.

7/10

Got mine used of amazon.com for like $12 total.

it was a good read and I wasn't even aware of the ghostwriting and "lies" until after. Still, a great 'n sad time while reading it. I like some of the early 1980's rare photos that I'm sure the Beach Boy estates wants to keep hidden forever (a la '77 Elvis)... Brian was a big wreck to look at.

Landy, love him or hate him, saved his life. I think there's more reason to appreciate Landy than hate him.

7/10

Then what did he use to flesh out Brian's reluctant responses? I agree that Gaines and Leaf were heavily plaguirized, but  the SMiLE chapter, especially when LSD trips are described seem like they could have come from Brian.  Did Tood Gold interview anyone else for the book and if so would he have filled in the gaps with, say Danny Hutton's recollections?

Didn't he also say that he never even read the book?

Not only that, but referred to it as "all lies and bullshit".

But when can you believe anything he says anyway?

I was thinking about getting this book and I had few quearys about it:

1) How much does Brian go into SMiLE?  :deadhorse

2) Does he talk about 70's much (unlike McCartney's book)?

3) How much does he go into Pet Sounds?

4) Is it well written or is it fluff (or written fluff)?

5) Does he go into his shakey relationship with Mike or is that just a post-BWPS thing?

What does it matter? It's all false anyway.

What all of it or just the Landy bits?

You shouldn't trust anything the book says, unless it's been corroborated elsewhere.

I can't believe how harsh you're being on this book. To me it was a wildly entertaining read, and although I wasn't aware of the bogus aspects of it back then, I think the most fascinating parts could only come from Brian himself:

Growing up/problems with girls
The "take a sh*t on this newspaper" incident
The Rovell sisters
The episode with Mike & Marilyn
Listening to Pet Sounds for the first time
Pinching that actress in the ass and stealing scoops of peanut butter with his thumb

I remember the parts with Landy sounding somewhat like propaganda, as some of you have mentioned. However, I don't think that hurts the book all that much. Landy did save his life, and the intense treatment was a large part of Brian's life. He brainwashed Brian and controlled his life, so to read that part more or less written by the guy makes sense in a weird way.

I haven't read it in a long time, but that's what I feel right now anyway. The book may not give you the facts or the truth, but it has plenty of good stories, and I think it is essential for every Brian Wilson fan.

I read all that stuff you mentioned in other books and interviews before that book was out. The ghostwriter Todd Gold did his research, read that stuff too, and wrote the book.
Sure, it's entertaining.

I just bought a copy on Amazon for 99 cents.

man... just the recollections of surfs up, this whole world and Brian, the SI song...were enough revelations to me in '91 to continue being a BB freek!!!!!!!!!!!!! te LSD experiences made me feel like i was trippin' with him.

It matters because people still quote this crappy book

I read where Brian said he never 'Proof read' it.
I like the book overall.

Terrible.  Forget the subject matter and the circumstances surrounding the book for one second -- it's still poorly composed with bad metaphors and descriptions that only serve to "inspire emotion" and stir up the drama.  However, it fails to earn any kind of sober reaction because it reads like a 13 year old girls diary!  "Nobody would listen to me!  They didn't care about my problems!  They wouldn't let me stay home when they went to Australia!"   :'(  It's embarrassing to think that people out there are under the impression that BW wrote this.

Nonetheless, I'm enjoying the book the same way I'd enjoy watching a Lifetime presentation of Brian Wilson's life, starring Lindsay Lohan as Marilyn and who cares who plays BW as long as he comes off as a vindictive little baby.

Marilyn said  brian offered carnie drugs when she was 9 or 10 and that was it, she had enough and left brian for good. It's on a bio i seen on A&E. I know this thread is old but had to post anyway.

I got about half way through this book and then found out that Brian didnt have anything to do with it, so that made me not bothered to read the rest of it

I would say that this book is essential for the pictures alone.  I doubt that Brian or the rest of The Beach Boys would agree to those pictures of Brian at his worst being published today. I wonder about certain stories in this book. Is it true that Brian didn't reckognise his own children after not seeing them for years? Also, what about that story of a show in Canada in 1979, where Brian was so drunk that he tried to go to sleep right on the stage?

Who knows what's true and false. I liked this book, It made me want to keep reading. Brian has told different stories so It's hard to know whats what.

I recently found this going in a second-hand store and the things it describes in a matter-of-fact way blew my mind.

But I have two big problems with the content, whether it is stolen or not.

"Brian" - if it is he - does Carl a huge disservice, fails to acknowledge his contribution over the years, doesn't recognise anything Carl or Dennis writes other than the tracks on "Friends", simply stating that they failed to find a hit single. I am sure Brian doesn't think this way.

The book is also inaccurate when it lists the songs Brian actually wrote. On Sunflower, we know that Brian was involved on 3 or 4 of the songs, the book underplays his involvement in mid-late Beach Boys output and obviously  focuses on the negative aspects to Brian's life.

There are more controversies, particular sexual, but these stand out.

Despite the fog of disinformation, a lot of Landy's therapy seemed absolutely appropriate at the time, in order to save Brian's life. In the end, if we read between the lines, we see both doctor and patient in a dependent relationship. The main issue which Landy could be blamed for was the drug treatment, perhaps.

I had read BB by Leaf and Heroes and Villians before reading Wouldn't It Be Nice...it only took about 5 pages before it became pretty clear that Brian wasn't involved with this book.  I ended up reading the whole thing, the train wreck syndrome....don't want to look, but end up looking anyway.  It was read with a grain of salt, but I guess it was an interesting read, even tho it was pulp fiction.
Carly

Honestly, I cut the photos out of it and then threw it away. Too much controversy surrounding the accuracy for me to want to read it again.

Seems like this thread is a lot like the following conversation;

David Anderle: "There's a few little things in there (the book) about things that went on with him and I that are so dead-on, so sharp, the memory."

Paul Williams: "He didn't write that book..."

David Anderle: "But those stories had to come from somewhere."

Okay, so if the some of the contents seems accurate to David Anderle then, perhaps, some of the contents are correct. And also it appears that Brian didn't write most of the thing and that Todd Gold pieced it together.

Some of the stories have later been confirmed by Brian on his website and in interviews.

The "autobiography" is a great tester of your Brian Wilson  sensibilities. One can discover true gold or end up with nothing at all depending on your ability to divine the truth.

Well of course some of the contents are correct. They aren't exactly Brian's own words necessarily but Todd Gold obviously got old interviews etc.. with Brian and asked people about Brian and wrote his story from there. I mean just because in the book it might say (I'm just making it up as an example): "Then I wrote Don't Worry Baby as a response to Be My Baby. Phil Spector is the greatest thing there ever was." I mean Todd Gold could easily find somewhere where Brian had said something similar and then just change it around a bit and add a few things here and there and he could easily pass it off as saying "oh those are Brian's words." But there is some things in that book that just are totally not Brian at all.

What's mainly wrong is the attitude. Brian is a very nice man, not bitter or angry like he comes off in the book.

I don't say this to be a jerk (even though I am one), but how do you know what kind of man Brian is? Like the vast majority of us, you've gotten his P.R. machine's message, not the real man. I'm sure he's got plenty of anger and bitterness, no matter what David Leaf wants the world to know. That said, the book is obviously not his work, as has been testified to in court (not to mention it uses a vocabulary that would be, if Brian's, entirely different than one he ever used before in any interview, ever).

Well I just observe his manner (which even the best PR can't completely cover) and he has an air of congeniality about him. Even when angry or negative I have never heard him talk in this way about anyone. I mean he has never been described as aggressive or condescending.
Besides I am just making the same point you are in that it's not written in the way his vocabulary flows.

I've just re-read this in the last few days, so I thought I'd chime in. 

If nothing else, the book is certainly an interesting read.  When I first read it several years ago, I didn't yet know that it was so heavily ghostwritten and that Brian had little to do with it.  Thus, it was cooler to read back then, thinking that it was really Brian saying these things.  Even knowing the truth, though, I still find myself enjoying it. 

People are pretty hard on the book, and rightfully so in certain respects, but I think the first half of it is fairly solid factually.  There are inaccuracies, naturally; sometimes large ones.  But the early years are covered quite well overall, and fun to read about. 

Where things start running into problems is when Landy enters the picture, which, of course, is no accident.  The harshness towards seemingly everyone but Landy is overwhelming at times, and the praise that is heaped on him can be nauseating.  I would love someday to have Brian tell the real story behind those years, but I doubt we will ever see such a thing.

Overall, like others have said, this book has more utility as entertainment rather than factual autobiography, but it is still a valuable part of the Beach Boys literary canon.

The early years cannot be relied upon for anything either. Dates are wrong, stories are lifted from other sources, and others have refuted info on it at such a level that I have to say I don't beilieve anything in it on its face. It's like one of those tv movies "based on a true story". Sadly too many books sicne have used the info from as cold hard fact. That's why it is such a pox on Beach Boys history, it muddied the waters of most that came after. The Mike Love Til I Die story seems to be wrong and that gets repeated everywhere. Mike has praised that song, and it was also among those aired in 2-71 on a New York radio station. If Mike hated it would he have let it be brought in?

I agree with MBE that even the recounting of the early years in WIBN?MOS can't be trusted that much.  Of course we know there are true stories there (much of the stuff that's been cribbed from previous BB bios).  But how much can we trust the "new" revelations?  For example, has Brian ever recounted his acid trips and flashback experience in such detail to any other biographer or interviewer?  How do we know that those events aren't more embellishments of Brian's "terse answers" by Todd Gold?

The second half of the book with its worship/defense of Landy is so nauseating that I never want to read it again.  There's one particular bit in there that just disgusts me to no end:

"Dr. Landy proved to be a hard taskmaster.  I gave him songs I thought were finished, and he handed them right back.  He often told me what I'd done would've been great in the sixties, but it was the late eighties and I had to bring it up to snuff."

The gall of that man!  To think he could deign to tell Brian Wilson how to write songs! >:D   I'm sure that kind of talk really did wonders for Brian's confidence in his songwriting abilities. >:(

Well I don't know MBE, Bruce has quoted that SOMEONE wasn't a fan of 'Til I Die... so if it wasn't Bruce or Mike... it was either Al, Dennis or Carl... and besides opinions change over time of course so maybe Mike didn't like it at the time, but changed his opinion later on?... And who says Mike "let it be brought in"? They were a band of course, so maybe the other guys (there was more than just Mike on that broadcast right?) wanted it to be played.

Those are valid arguments but my contention is that Gold guessed it was Mike based on Bruce's quote for Leaf. Sad thing is that now it's gone down as history that Mike hated the song. Who knows 100 percent but I for one don't trust Gold's writing at all.

I had read "Heroes and Villians" prior to reading WIBN...it only took a few pages to realize this didn't even remotely sound like the last book.  But, like a train wreck...I...must.....not....look.....I ended up reading it anyway, with a grain of salt, of course.  I liked some of the pictures.  I have read the Timothy White book, also, but found myself skimming over the stuff that didn't directly relate to the band.  It too is an interesting read.  Summer is coming, I need another BB book to read....

Several of the actual song titles quoted, and lyrics listed in the chapter about Smile are wrong. That tells you about all you need to know about how accurate this book is. The thing that I'm curios about is, why didn't Brian sue Landy and Gold when this book came out? If I were Brian, I would have sued Landy for completely fucking up my life in every possible way. I mean, the poor guy got sued by HIS OWN MOTHER over this book.

Brian couldn't have sued Landy over the book because Brian was a participant in the book: I mean, he did promotional book-signing behind it. It wasn't as if Landy did it without Brian knowing. And if I recall Andrew Doe's statements on it correctly, they probably were trying for a more accurate book than they had gotten, but when most celebs' ghost writers get decent interviews from their "author" subjects, Brian was in one-word-answer mode and Gold had to be a bit more creative.

Has anyone ever tracked down Gold and asked him?

According to this book, Al is a racist. 'Does he really have to put his arm around her' says Al. (Later he apparently makes a mocking remark regarding Brian's, er, shoes).

I mean, really...? The problem with this book is that it just clearly has such an agenda (Landy's) and as such it is frequently - page after page - utterly unbelievable! Nothing fits. People's personalities seem to bare absolutely no resemblence whatsoever to those they have in real life. Poor Carl is just destroyed in this book, it's a disgrace. No mention is made of his songwriting/producing talents. Meanwhile more attention is paid to Dennis apparently beating up a young girl then his writing any songs. In fact, Brian seems entirely unsure of what he himself did and didn't write (he was actively involved in Sunflower, as the writing credits show, yet he claims otherwise here).

It's such a shame this book excists.

I've never read this book but I knew enough about it being a Landy vehicle (and only minimally, if at all, genuine Brian) that when I watched The Devil and Daniel Johnston I felt really bad, both for him and his parents, when Daniel Johnston's parents were talking about how -- after Johnston became obsessed with Brian/The Beach Boys -- they had begun reading Brian's "autobiography" to see what they might do differently to prevent Johnston from ending up the same way.

Also, this thread kinda makes me want to read it~

It's interesting that a lot of Dennis' foibles are mentioned - in passing - in this book, but yet he is kind of held up as the one member of the family/band that will stick up for Brian. Carl, on the other hand, is opposed to Brian at every turn - despite the fact that Carl took the initiative to bring Landy back into the picture the second time. Obviously, Landy was furious with Carl for trying to have him removed when it became clear that the doc would never choose to leave on his own. I look at the pics of Brian from the mid/late 80's, and he looks fantastic, so athletic, even youthful - but at what cost? Sure, Landy got Brian off "drugs" - and replaced them with "meds". What a nightmare.

I know this is talked about in the Catch A Wave book by Peter Carlin (I just read it recently). It wasn't stated that Mike hated the song but thought that the lyrics were a downer.

Mike seems to tie himself in knots with his contradictions (or alleged contradictions): there he is in the Endless Harmony doc complaining of how the record company promoted them affected them being taken seriously ('in light of the war in Vietnam and the student demonstartions, it was completely ridiculous') and yet it seems to have always been him who objected to attempts by other band members at more artistic, serious or (supposedly) downbeat work.

I agree. If you've ever listened to Brian on interviews and heard the way he speaks (no matter what time period) and then read the text of WIBN: MOS, it's obvious that it's just not Brian talking. Also, I have serious, major doubts about the chapter claiming that Landy sent Brian on an Outward Bound adventure by himself. The one constant thing that you always hear about the Landy program was that Brian was never (or at least, almost never) allowed to be by himself, ever. Even if the story is true, and even if, for instance, Landy did swear the Outward Bound folks to secrecy or whatever, think about it: Brian Wilson hiking, climbing mountains, etc., would be too juicy of an event for the OB people not to gossip about, resulting in it making the news, which it never did. At least I don't remember any BB or BW-related stories back in 1984-85-86 mentioning it! A more appropriate title for the book would have been Wouldn't It Be Nice If It Were My Own Story!

It'd be nice in Brian would finally publicly denounce the book, purely out of respect for Carl if nothing else. And not in any kind of half-hearted shrugging 'aw i've never even read it' way...

Well, Timothy White's book The Nearest Faraway Place says that during the depositions in the case where Brian was sued by Mike, Carl, Audree, etc. for the content in WIBN, Brian was quoted as saying that the book was "absolute bullsh*t," "total fiction" and "all garbage" (or something to that effect). Even though White doesn't elaborate, I'm guessing that what might have happened during said deposition was that perhaps parts of the book were read to Brian and he might have then and there confirmed what most BB fans suspect. I seriously doubt that Landy and his goons would have let him read it, so Brian probably wasn't kidding about not having seen the final manuscript. From what I've seen, except for the interview on Larry King's show from 2004, Brian for the most doesn't like to talk about Landy or the time he was under his program all that much, and I can't say I blame him. Because of that, I doubt that he'll ever publicly denounce that book or even talk about it in a future interview. I'm sure that he probably settled things w/ Carl privately before Carl died.

I was at first interested in obtaining this "autobiography" until I found out this wasn't even written by Brian Wilson.
This was written by Eugene Landy, so I wouldn't trust this book one bit!
But then again, I haven't actually read the book. I'm just going to have to see what other people think of this.
I expect negative reviews. For now:
1 out of 5

I'm actually reading the notorious book and I'm halfway through.

At first, I didn't even want to read it because I had heard only bad things about it. After a couple of months, curiosity got the best of me.

I'm not yet into the Landy years (year/years) but I find this read most fascinating. I never expected it to be written "by" Brian - I mean, who can expect that? I think Gold did a fine job of putting Brian's inner turmoil into words. I actually think it's quite touching, the way it's written. Simple. Of course I agree that some of it is harsh on Carl and Marilyn, but I think there can be truth in Brian not seeing, as ill and self-consumed as he was, that anyone truly loved him and cared for him as best they could. "He" talks about how he did not get help from people around him and that must have been a large part of his experience. Feeling alone and no one who could understand the depth of his suffering.
 
Anyway, that's what I'm getting from it and I really appreciate the new perspective. When it comes to Brian and the Beach Boys, one can't read only one book and claim to know the truth. The truth is what people make of it, in a particular time and place. I believe a lot of it is true, even though these are not Brian's own words. I think his own words and thoughts can only be found in his music.

As for Brian calling it "all garbage" in court, well, I'm not surprised. Once the book came out and seeing the shitstorm caused by it, I can't think of any other reaction of Brian's other than to disavow the whole thing. Just to get away from the storm.

+ About Landy: even though most of us don't like him for his methods and the way he manipulated and isolated his patient,  Brian has numerous times said that he really loved him and was grateful for what he did, despite the bad stuff. I think this has to be taken into consideration.

This is the book (a birthday present in 2003) that re-introduced me to Brian and The Beach Boys. So I'm biased in its favour, if only for that reason. 

I thought it was a fantastic read and still do (I've read it at least twice). 

There are others far more in the know than myself about how things were----I wasn't there. However, as a book, a page-turner if ever there was one, in the words of Janice Nicholls on Thank Your Lucky Stars, "Oi'll give it foive". 

My hot take and speculative theory: I think there's more truth to this book than its reputation suggests at least for the pre-Landy years. I haven't finished the whole thing, and once it gets to the Landy years I have no interest due to the obvious bias, but since Brian's unfortunate passing Ive been thumbing through a copy on the Internet Archive and it's a very good read. Infinitely more digestible than the later autobiography and so far nothing has tripped my BS meter. I love how it goes into specifics of the acid trips and other anecdotes that you'd NEVER hear Brian talk about in the Melinda era, where all his controversies had to be smoothed over.

Im inclined to think Brian was candidly interviewed and then Landy peppered his self-serving propaganda after the fact, but that still means there's kernels of truth in here. Detractors often point to the bashing of the other bandmates as proof Brian couldn't have written it, which I think is borne out of a well-meaning but naive desire to see the group as this perpetually harmonious collective. While some of the bad words towards them may be politically motivated, especially with regards to Carl since he was fighting to free Brian, Im inclined to believe Brian was letting off some well-deserved steam after decades of (rightly) feeling taken advantage of. While he may be a gentle soul who doesn't like confrontation and doesn't talk smack in public interviews (at least not often) it'd be foolish to think there aren't genuine hard feelings after decades of drama. This book is more complicated than its current reputation warrants in my opinion, and I think after the satisfaction of letting off steam had subsided, Brian was all too eager to use the "Landy made me write it" excuse to avoid accountability for some of the things "he" had written. Basically, I'm saying neither Brian nor Landy are 100% responsible for this book--the truth of whose perspective we're really getting is more complex and probably shifts by what year is being recalled, etc.

As a bit of "proof" of this theory, I submit that Carl would not have been quite so upset with Brian in the years since had he (Carl) thought this was 100% a Landy hatchet job that Brian had NO say in. I think there was drama between the two because they both knew Brian had meant at least a little of what was said. Similarly, if this book was 100% a forgery I think Brian would've more vociferously denounced it and wrote his own "true" autobiography a lot sooner. But that's just my intuitive speculation.

I give this book a 3/5 for the directness, readable prose and (seemingly) honest account of the 60s years. It's at least as good as the garbled stream of consciousness with no drama allowed that is his 2016 memoir.


I agree that it's audacious of Landy to tell Brian his songs weren't good enough as-is. But here's the thing...I believe that anecdote 100%. Thats what my ears tell me when I listen to BW88--"no way my Brian did that!" That album sounds so overproduced it's not even funny, and if Landy forced him to keep adding more to the production that explains so much.

The mists of time have caused people to forget a lot of good work Landy did with Brian. Someday in the future we'll probably get an honest telling of the Melinda years.

Feel free to elaborate but i always thought Landy saved Brian from himself only to suck him dry.

As for the truth coming out about the Melinda years, I doubt it. Not because I dont think some shady stuff happened but I doubt theres anyone left who could even really tell that story. I think if nothing else Melinda was heavy handed and misguided in her management of Brian's career but its taboo to say for many reasons. I wouldn't accuse her of any worse than that with what we now know.

Yes, I do think Landy saved Brian's life, but then Landy himself got way out of control. Brian should have been on his own by 1988, but Landy made it clear he wasn't ever going to let go.

I don't think it's taboo, it's just doesn't make any sense, which is why people disagree with that outlook. When you look at the full picture of Brian's life, there are business/financial, mental, and other reasons that Brian's solo career was shaped the way it was: There was a delicate balance that had to be in place to keep Brian happy/healthy, to keep record companies happy, to keep the band financially able to tour, to keep the fans (mostly) happy.

And the fruits of that balance were:

- Brian finishing Smile (an album that is still the #3 top-rated album on Metacritic - at one point it was #1), and the subsequent release of The Smile Sessions
- Grammy for ‘Mrs. O’Leary’s Cow’
- 11-12 solo albums
- a deal with Disney for Brian to record a Gershwin album (to finish 2 songs, and Ray Lawlor has an amazing story on here about Brian re-writing one composition overnight because Brian was very unhappy with what he originally came up with).
- reuniting with Van Dyke Parks for an incredible concept album (TLOS)
- Biopic with an 89% Rotten Tomatoes Score, and is critically praised as one of the best music-biopics ever made
- worked with a slew of alternate genres/artists
- Brian being re-introduced to touring, building his confidence to the point where he loved to tour again
- averaging 30-40 shows per year
- creating a band that Paul McCartney once said was the best backing band in the world
- reuniting with The Beach Boys for an unforgettable 50th anniversary

And to keep in mind that this was a guy who was just weeks from death due to substance abuse, 300 pounds, nearly died at the hand's of Landy, battling schizoaffective disorder and anxiety, depression, negative auditory hallucinations. That this man was able to find a support system that allowed him to tour, record, make money, keep his health in tip-top shape is an absolute miracle. So when people knock Melinda (not you, but petty fans who find any opportunity to sarcastically mock her), or call her management heavy-handed/misguided, I think those people fail to see just how much machinery was at work in order to keep Brian happy/healthy, in order to keep the band financially able to tour at the level they were, in order to keep record companies interested. It was a big machine that needed managing, and I do believe Melinda was there to help Brian manage/live the best solo life he could've had.

As for the “honest telling” on the Melinda years, I think we mostly already have it. I have heard one story of Brian being yelled at (from the Stebbins FAQ book) backstage at a concert, Carnie Wilson being critical a few times about lack of access to her father. Some digs here and there about Melinda being a gatekeeper. But none of it at all remotely close to the actual level of surf nazis and intentionally over-doping the guy on meds that he received from Landy. In 30-some years, if those stories are all we have, I doubt we'll get much more; and not because those people are gone, but mostly because had Brian been in any real danger, had Brian been totally helpless, had Brian been a prisoner with no escape, many people near/dear to him would've whistleblown.

Like Rab said, it's not taboo to put a topic and opinion out for discussion, but where did you get this information from to form such an opinion, especially using terms like "misguided" and "heavy handed"?

I'd suggest reading or re-reading this article too, if nothing else to balance the firsthand observations of someone who actually managed Brian through all of the events Rab listed above, and someone who was actually doing the work against whatever other sources may have been saying:

https://news.pollstar.com/2025/07/23/in-her-own-words-jean-sievers-on-managing-the-late-great-music-genius-brian-wilson/ (https://news.pollstar.com/2025/07/23/in-her-own-words-jean-sievers-on-managing-the-late-great-music-genius-brian-wilson/)

My opinion is based on the Wikipedia article and its sources about the Paley sessions as well as the defensive NPP marketing, the way Wendy (or was it Carnie?) called her "M E L ANDY" (damn autocorrect keeps changing this to "Melinda" behind my back, tad suspicious) Mike and others in Brian's life saying she was heavy handed (or words to that effect) and a commentor in the main board discussing the shitty way they treated Frank Holmes. Plus just little scattered anecdotes Ive heard over the years, some from insiders I wont name along with just a general vibe I took away from Love and Mercy that they had to play up her role as the savior to appease Brian's camp and get the movie made.*

*Yes she saved him but the back and forth 60s-80s time lapses kind of hurt the movie in my opinion. It took time away from the far more interesting 60s stuff and the two stories dont come together in a narratively satisfying way, just individually fizzle out. Also, some of the "isnt Melinda amazing?!" moments felt over the top, like Landy throwing a fit in her office and shes all cool like "I think Im ready to sell some cars" as the manager just sat back and did nothing. That scene took me out of the movie and apparently the events of the 80s sequences arebased solely on her word, which I find abit sketchy. Carl's role in helping free Brian is totally omitted which also feels kinda shitty.

People can feel free to disagree or say "if she was overbearing to others it was at Brian's urging", or "we dont know what happened" (which is true) Ive seen it all play out here before a million times. Im not gonna get into a big back and forth about Brian's private life because its pointless on several counts but this is why my read on her is a bit less than the perfect saint shes often portrayed as. Not evil, but a flawed person with an agenda--like almost everyone in the bands story.

I wouldn't at all label the examples you gave as evidence that Melinda was heavy-handed or misguided in her management. As in, look at the accolade list above (regardless of your personal preference about each project): you don't achieve all of that by being clumsy or misguided. I am sure there were mistakes made along the way, missteps taken at times, even Brian complained about Imagination: but that doesn't negate the towering achievements that Brian made in those 30+ years with Melinda (you don't do that by being misguided). It was Carnie who called her "Me-landy" and I have no idea what the circumstances were behind that...I do know that Brian was able to do and go anywhere he pleased, he had his own cell and people could (and did) call him up and he could call anyone else up. Given all the  barriers/hurtles in Brian's life (being treated for some severe mental illnesses, his addictive nature, etc), he was able to live an incredibly freeing life post-Landy.

And I've heard anecdotes from insiders too - stories that are complete nonsense and have been proven verifiably false. Granted, I don't know what anecdotes you were told, but I learned long ago that there is a lot of stuff floating around about Melinda, and a lot of stuff not true.


Including the fans. Every single fan has this "idea" of who Brian should be (should've been) and some get pissed at anyone who steps in the way of their vision of that. The reality is that Brian was able to live FAR beyond what people dreamed he would. He was able to make all the music he wanted, tour all he wanted, make records for the biggest companies in the business, had a major motion picture made about him, was able to eat in the finest restaurants in the world (and his favorite deli). The man had a great life thanks to some amazing doctors, amazing friends/band, and a great wife. Why people constantly try to tear that apart is beyond me.

Of course no one should worship her as a saint, but why the pendulum should swing from that end of the spectrum to "she was misguided, clumsy, and not evil, but had an agenda" makes no sense to me.

Guess we just disagree  ;D

Consider the possibility that these "sources" and "insiders" you cite as references that shaped your opinions may be wrong, or spreading false information.



And based on Brian's word too, unless you see fit to dismiss his memories entirely and call both primary subjects' word "sketchy". Regarding Carl's role, there are people who can speak directly to that subject matter but who probably won't most likely out of respect, all things considered based on what actually happened during that time. As much as you suggest there is an effort to canonize Melinda as "Saint Melinda", there are also circles who have done the same with Carl, creating a "Saint Carl" aura where he could do no wrong. Unfortunately as in most if not all human stories and actions, that's not always the case.

Maybe consider widening your sources of information, digging a little deeper and looking under the surfaces, and hopefully getting closer to the truth apart from self-edited Wikipedia entries and "insiders" who quite simply were not there and can only comment and critique from afar, many layers removed from the primary sources if they're not just telling tall tales out of school. There have been quite a few instances of that.

Why dont yall provide me with the definitive sources on Melinda and then I can be as enlightened in my opinion as you?

Because even outside of the outrageous behind-the-back Melinda rumors, your list of what makes Melinda "heavy handed" and "misguided" makes no sense when you look at all the pieces (not just the ones you want to see to fit your viewpoint). And thus, would having some sources for just one small aspect of your list even change your opinion?

1) Wikipedia Paley Session article: the article itself says that Paley/Wilson weren't able to get a record deal with that material because no record company was interested in it. The article also says that The Beach Boys didn't see commercial appeal in the music which is why they rejected it. So, regardless of a vague statement that unnamed "observers" saw Brian coerced away from Paley (and you want a definitive source from us, but you're willing to take this as gospel?), is it really hard to believe that Brian's wife would be trying to steer Brian toward getting a record contract? Say what you want about Imagination (like I said before, even Brian disliked it), but the fact is that it helped Brian get back in the saddle of touring and it also helped him get back into the rhythm of commercial record making...which then allowed him to climb the ladder and get better record deals which then allowed him to both tour with a huge band, and also record music that was more experimental/highly-arranged (TLOS). How does wanting your music artist husband to have a successful career in music make you a misguided manager?

2) Defensive NPP marketing: even Peter Hollens had to come on this forum to defend his work due to the hate he was receiving from the Brian Wilson "fans" - are we going to fault him for defending the album, too? I'm sure when a loved one makes a record and a vocal swath of his supposed fans call it "stupid" or a music critic compares your husband's (who battles major depression and schizoaffective disorder) work to a "wheelchair bound grandpa forced to make a speech at Thanksgiving dinner" - yeah I think you have every right to be defensive.

3) Carnie calling Melinda "Me-Landy": again, we don't know all the facts about this. But firstly, the fact that it's an outrageous comparison to begin with (yeah, I don't see Melinda in the same boat as the guy who nearly killed Brian by pumping him full of pills and had surf nazis following him around) makes me think that it's not a statement to be taken as gospel. I don't doubt Carnie had reasons to have a sour opinion about Melinda, but I'm also not going to judge Melinda's management based off one outrageous comparison from a family member.  

4) Mike's opinion about Melinda: Mike also publicly ridiculed Melinda for allowing UCLA doctors to prescribe Brian with medication that would help him with his schizoaffective disorder. So I will take anything Mike says about Melinda about as seriously as I take his 'Island Fever' lyrics.

5) Frank Holmes: I don't know the details - I missed the part where Melinda was directly involved in this? Maybe you could point me to that source. And even if she was directly involved, we don't know what amount of $ Frank came up with and if it was actually too high of an amount. The thing is, you and I don't see the books about touring costs, recording costs, marketing costs, etc etc. So while it's easy to be an armchair quarterback about a music release, we weren't there and have no idea about the specifics. And thus, basing your opinion of one person off of yet another vague reference, this time regarding Smile drawings, doesn't make sense to me.

6) 'Love and Mercy': What factually was incorrect about the 'Love and Mercy' film? You say yourself "Yes she saved him" then complain that they "played up" her role as his savior? And claiming this as evidence that she's a misguided and heavy handed manager is utterly ridiculous...So she's a bad manager because someone in Hollywood made her look too much like a savior? Like what are you speculating here?

And getting back to sources that would verify if any rumors/anecdotes about Melinda are true or not, I don't know specifically what rumors you are referring to. Please feel free to write out those anecdotes here and maybe some people who would actually know will reach out to you.

What I get from this is there are no definitive sources about Melinda or this last period in Brian's life, just scattered anecdotes and pieces of evidence up to interpretation (ie "she pushed him to finish Smile, shes good!" vs "she pushed him to work with Joe Thomas, she's bad!"). But for some reason its taboo to dare to suggest there may have been trouble in paradise or that this person who kept others from Brian's past at arms' length, including his biological children, may have had some flaws or less-than-saintly agenda. I saw this attitude in 2015 (it was a major factor in splitting the board in two), I predicted itd happen now and yall took the bait to prove my point.

Personally Im not sure why even the faintest suggestion that Melinda wasnt the perfect caretaker/manager should elicit this "oh how dare you!" level of virtue signalling white knight brigade while this forum has delved into every other member of the bands' agendas, flaws and mistakes. Is it because shes a woman, or it would mean Brian didnt get a perfect 'happily ever after' or what? 

Its not even like I started a thread to tear her down, I made a throwaway comment that she was "heavy handed and misguided in her management of Brian's career" and, when pressed with some snarky sanctimonious grandstanding, I offered some of the things that made me feel that way. If you want to be the performative hero defending m'lady's honor thats your thing, but if you dont have the guts to share your own "evidence," just tear mine down, implying Im stupid and hateful for not reading the tea leaves as you, then this conversation can serve no other purpose.

I mean, feel free to actually respond to the points I raised rather than stoop to ad hominem attacks. When you write things, even throwaway comments, in a public forum, maybe expect pushback if those comments don't make sense to people? You made a claim about Melinda being clumsy and misguided in her management of Brian's career. Given the accolades I listed above, I just don't see it that way. You provided more detail, and I responded to those details in my two posts above. I don't see how providing facts and asking questions is akin to swooping in on a chandelier to defend "m'lady's honor" (I mean, really?). You have every right and opportunity to respond in civil dialogue to my points above, it would be more appreciative, and fruitful, than just making personal attacks.



::)

And when youre a public figure, not everyones gonna agree with your decisions.

"Ad hominems"

I mean, youre the one acting like the very thought Melinda might notve been perfect is grounds to attack someones character. Id say thats pretty personally insulting. If youre gonna play the part of the gallant gentleman, at least own it.

As for that eye-roll "gotcha!" I say nice job cherry-picking the one vague source I listed out of several but then its not like this ever was or would be a good faith discussion.

The "points [you] raised" are just "thats not a good enough source!" / "i never saw that!" / "youre [bad quality] for interpretating it that way!" So forgive me if I dont spend a bunch of time on an internet disagreement where neither person is going to change their mind and sh*t's just gonna get needlessly personal and histrionic.

I tried to dismiss our impasse as a disagreement, i asked genuinely for sources but that doesn't seem the conversation youre gunning for. It feels like your MO is to perform for the crowd "look how much more positive and pro-Brian and tolerant I am than this person! " I dont see the point in engaging with that.

I'm not saying you have to agree with her decisions (heck, I don't agree with some of her decisions), but that doesn't mean that her entire handling of Brian's music career was clumsy and misguided. Brian had a very successful solo music career, brought smiles to hundreds of thousands of people in-concert, had a slew of albums and other accolades, and in the process his mental health was well cared for. I wouldn't call all of that the fruits of clumsy/misguided handling of his career.



I have tried to be specific and clarifying about the subject at hand, whereas you are the one saying that I "don't have guts", that I'm "virtue signaling", that I'm part of the "white knight brigade", and that I'm a "performative hero" whilst not actually responding to my points....literally the definition of Ad Hominem.


You are the one telling me I don't have guts to reveal a source when you yourself won't reveal your source. That was my point.


Both Craig and I were merely responding to your claim/argument, and you're the one who made it personal/histrionic. If my points are so pathetic then maybe spend your time quickly refuting them rather than spending time with personal attacks.


This is a message board where people are going to debate and disagree - I don't know what else you are expecting from a forum. You are "genuinely" asking for my sources but yet you yourself are the one who initially made the vague claim stating that you yourself won't reveal your own source!...and why? Because it's utterly improper to reveal a source when you've been told information in confidence...and then you attack my character? You admit to baiting Craig and I and then attack my motives?

Ultimately its up to the individual to make up their own mind about Melinda in the absence of substantive, authoratative sources and about which of our positions they agree with, I guess.

Logic would suggest the definitive source would be Melinda herself, but in a previous post you've already said you find her word "a bit sketchy". So that removes her as a possible source to consider. Then I suggested (and factually too) that regarding the L&M movie, Brian was the other primary source since he and Melinda were often the only ones there in the scenes being depicted, but if you have issues with his reliability as a source, does that remove him too?

If you remove Brian and Melinda, whose word you find "sketchy" regarding events that actually happened to her and her husband, who is left?

I reposted the link to the tribute Jean Sievers wrote for Brian, and you seem to have ignored it (or haven't had time to read it). Jean was Brian's manager since the late 90's, working directly and daily for and with Brian, and doing the heavy lifting along with her co-workers to actually make things happen in Brian's career. And she did a phenomenal job...does her word count?

Here's the link again: https://news.pollstar.com/2025/07/23/in-her-own-words-jean-sievers-on-managing-the-late-great-music-genius-brian-wilson/ (https://news.pollstar.com/2025/07/23/in-her-own-words-jean-sievers-on-managing-the-late-great-music-genius-brian-wilson/)

Then that leaves people who were Brian's and Melinda's personal friends, people who had their personal phone numbers and could call anytime and receive calls too. That's a very short list, but do we discount their word too because they're too close to be unbiased in their observations?

Regarding things like the L&M movie, NPP, BWPS, Smile art, and all of that - There are very large teams and crews in place with each of those projects, including record labels, production and distribution operations, screenwriters, marketing teams, accounting and budget teams, the works. Beyond personal management from people like Jean. "Budget" can be the key term, it's not as if Brian himself could have cut a check and cover all the costs and not have labels and film companies have their own interests and limitations in place. Should those various people be considered a valid source as well?

And maybe after all that, we're left with various people who claim "insider" status, and proceed to spread gossip and rumors to fans online or in fan clubs or whatever. People who may carry personal grudges, or perhaps have a history of putting out gossip and innuendo for whatever reasons they may have, gossip that has often been proven false. Do we weigh or even value the word of people like that over the actual individuals who were the subject of these events and happenings?  

If weighing a personal bias or grudge against someone being talked about factually is a factor, consider how many people in these fan communities have a history of bashing, criticizing, gossiping about, and using ridiculous nicknames for Melinda Wilson like "Missy", "the wifey", "hiswifeandmanagers", "his handlers", and the "me-landy" chestnut, and consider the validity of what they're saying. Does it come from a source of factual information, or rather hearsay and personal grudges?

Food for thought, that's all it is.  I think the classic saying is "consider the source".

So your posts were "bait" and not a genuine attempt to have a discussion?

Ugh. If thats the only thing you took from everything Ive said in this and my other 134 posts, yeah sure. Whatever makes me seem worse. Attack the nonbeliever.

If youll recall, I wasnt even the one who brought up Melinda and just because I was expecting backlash doesn't mean it was necessarily my intent to cause it. But again I dont think either of you are really operating on good faith right now or interested in a meeting of the minds so much as playing to the crowds so Im sure any idiom or unflattering phrase I use here is going to be presented in the worst light possible.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop assuming my motives here. You claim that I am not here to have a meeting of the minds, yet you are the one who tried to stop this conversation (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,874.msg686664.html#msg686664) after just my second post in this thread! Who is trying to avoid a conversation here? You claim I am not operating on good faith? I am literally just disagreeing with a negative critique you initially made about Melinda. You are the one who is making up this story in your head that I'm operating on bad faith and then using it as an excuse to avoid a real discussion. I feel like I have been very clear in my reasoning for why I think Melinda wasn't clumsy or misguided in her management, maybe try just rebutting my arguments in a civil manner rather than making up stories and motivations of the people you are conversing with?

Speaking of making stuff up, to give you an idea of the level of idiotic rumors that are leveled at Melinda, one of the rumors floating around behind-the-scenes about her was that she was the poster SMiLE Brian here on the SS forum...A poster who I have met personally and who is still posting here after January 30, 2024. So this is what Craig and I mean, that when an 'insider', or someone close to Brian's camp, has made a claim, don't take it for gospel because chances are it's bunk from people with an ax to grind.

Maybe i just wasnt interested in having a discussion about it, lol. Like at least to me, not every disagreement needs a winner or a consensus. Sometimes the whole "big epic debate" thing isnt worth the hassle, especially when the other person is very emotionally invested and determined to "win" at all costs, which is the vibe I perceive from you. You can feign outrage about me "assuming your motives" but Id say anyone that writes like ten ornery paragraphs in responce to "lets just agree to disagree" is kinda not worth engaging with. Just seems like I could say anything right now and youd take it in the worst possible way.

Like i dont actually enjoy the self important pearl clutching outrage thing so i tried to kindly say "hey id rather we just let it go." Is that allowed? Does that make me a bad person too? Would you still be speaking to me the same way you are now if we were in person or PMs? If so, yikes, if not my assessment was totally warranted.

I think Melinda was heavy handed and misguided. You dont. I gave my reasons, you dont agree. The end. The funny thing is nobody's prodding Lonely Summer for also being, lets say, skeptical of Melinda. Why am I always singled out for having a heterodox opinion and pressured to write an essay defending it on-command? (And then when I do, I get criticized for being "long winded" lol.)

Spot on. That didn’t take long.

👍👍😂😂

I feel like if someone makes a negative accusation about someone, it's fair game to discuss those accusations. If you don't want to discuss, fine. If you actually wanted to end the conversation, why follow up and ask Craig and I a passive-aggressive followup question regarding that very conversation? You say I'm not worth engaging with and claim a big epic debate isn't worth the hassle, yet here you've written how many paragraphs in four posts in the past day that have nothing to do with the original topic?

It's a message board. You can ignore or respond to anything you want. If you make a claim, expect interaction from others regarding that claim. I and others have had plenty of back-and-forth over the years with Lonely Summer.

Cool. Anyway...

I actually revise my rating of WIBN for the record. After coming to the SMiLE chapter it became really obvious that Brian wasnt writing/dictating or consulting in any meaningful way. There were embellishments in the story I couldn't find elsewhere in some cases (the bookstore incident, giving VDP mice, Diane snusnu in 66, raping the third Rovell sister) and others that come from Gaines but almost certainly aren't accurate (first Fire mid-Nov 66 with VDP before the actual 11/28 that was logged, etc). The author clearly wasnt familiar with the SMiLE sessionography or music. The supposed third trip is never talked about in depth just "finally saw God" (well...tell us about God then, what was that like??).

Id give it a generous 2 not a 3.