The Smiley Smile Message Board

I was watching this again recently and I noticed something that I didn't catch the first time.  Early in the film when Mike was asked what he thought of Van Dyke Parks, it was actually Dennis holding the camera. I don't know why I didn't catch that the first time. But Mike said something during that exchange that got me wondering. He said,"Have we fired Jimmy
Guercio?"  So was he being funny, or did he really not like Guercio as their manager?

I also have to mention that Mike seems very different behind the scenes then he does on stage or a tv interview. He is very serious and to himself. Or maybe he just wast very connected to that group of people.  :afro

Mike's actual words were (re: Van Dyke) "He's a producer, right ? Maybe we should fire Jimmy Guercio ?". It's my impression he was joking.

Oops. I was quoting it by memory.

He may have been joking. But the phrase "I hope you are getting your rocks off" makes me wonder if there is something about Van Dyke or Jimmy Guercio that Mike really doesn't like. Or maybe he was refering to Dennis bugging him with the camera. I don't know, maybe its nothing.

Dennis is obviously pushing Mike's buttons for recreation. Mike's issues with Van Dyke were no secret and Dennis was putting him on the spot...for fun. Mike saying "i hope you're getting your rocks off" confirms that. Guercio is  another third rail topic since Jim was basically "managing" them at this time, Mike's brother Steve was also directly in the mix and vying for that position. Dennis was getting a little under Mike's skin on purpose...and Mike does a fair job of deflecting the heat.

We must always keep in mind they were cousins.

This raises an interesting question. We all know that in the last five or so years of Dennis's life, he and Mike pretty much hated each other. Mike usually ends up getting most of the blame. But after reading the above posting about Dennis egging on Mike, how much of the problem was actually caused by Dennis generally being an irritating asshole?

23.8%

It's typical cousin, family behavior---males egging each other on, being buttholes to each other. At a certain point it crossed the line, but sometimes I think Dennis and Mike's relationship pre-1976 gets blown out of proportion a bit.

Just for fun, this is how I see the Wilson/Love dynamics:
-Dennis idolized Brian completely, was in many ways his greatest supporter in music and personal life and loved and cared for him deeply. As Stebbins said Dennis would've laid in front of a train for Brian.
-Carl was much the same way, became a bit more diplomatic as years wore on and he became the leader of the band. I would say that from the 2nd Landy era Carl and Brian were much more distant due to a variety of factors: Brian being estranged from the family, Carl having other issues to deal with. Remember that Desper said around 1970-71 Carl would often go up to Brian's room (when Brian was there) and consult him on music issues in a brother to brother fashion. My feeling is that they were very close during this period.
-Carl and Dennis had a loving, caring relationship for many years that cooled off after Carl got clean near the end of 1978. A good example is what Carli Munoz reported of the "It's Not Too Late" session---a very emotional session that was enhanced by the fact that a lot of sh*t was going on in there lives. From there Carl supports and helps finish and develop Dennis' contributions to the LA Light album, always welcomes his brother on stage, but gradually their relationship comes to a close as Dennis' spirals downward and Carl maintains stability. Carl was reportedly devastated at Dennis death.
-Brian, in my opinion, has never gotten over his brothers deaths---he roughed it through the post-Dennis days with fortitude but ever since Carl died he has, in my opinion, lost a bit of his spark. I remember Foskett saying how deeply their deaths hurt Brian and how Brian rarely, if ever, talks about it. Also remember that Brian has forced "Forever" off the live setlist because it brings back bad memories. Never forget that Brian tried to commit suicide in 1985.
-Mike and Carl, as far as I know, had very little contact outside of the band. Maybe a friendship, but I have no idea. It seems they stuck it out because it was family and business was business. I know they loved each other. I often think that Carl became more like Mike in the passing years and stayed in the band to keep the family together.

Perhaps I'm making the situation simplistic, but I just thought I'd make these points.

Well... throwing up in the meditation room at Brother Studio (or using it to 'entertain' his lady friends)... walking on board the non-smoking plane puffing on a huge cigar... turning up drunk for gigs... poking fun at Mike's little TM speeches onstage... saying he hoped MIU would f*ck up Mike's karma (actually, I agree, but you don't say that in an interview).

But the clincher ? Marrying Shawn and having a child with her (only not in that order...). Yeah, I think that'd make me just a tad annoyed.  ::)

You forgot the shagging of the wives!!!!  ;D

Oh yeah... I still cherish the memory of an interview a UK music paper did with Brian a few years ago: they asked if Dennis' music was an extension of his character and Brian's deadpan response was (I paraphrase slightly), "yeah, well, he had intercourse with many women - Mike's wife, my wife, Alan's wife".

You know, as much as we all love Dennis, to bang the wife of a cousin or close friend but especially brother is pretty low! As a rock star with the looks of an Adonis he could of had pretty much any lady he wanted so why he went looking so close to home to dump his nuts is a bit of a wonder.

Strange that Dennis has to be the one labeled in this way, when this had to be one of the most bizarrely incestuous collection of people I've ever encountered.  I mean, is there anyone here that doesn't know Brian was romantically linked with all three Rovell sisters?  And that's just the tip of the iceberg...  Guess it's the price paid for looking like an Adonis!

It tends to be forgotten that Mike was married, what, six times...

I said tip of the iceberg...  Don't get me started...

Didn't Rocky Pamplin say that Marilyn also had an affair with Carl?

Oh c'mon Ed Roach, sir, get STARTED! Its very boring out here.

No, you can't rationalize this away like that. What both of them did is effed up, and they both should be called on it. it's not like Brian gets the free pass while Dennis gets crap for sleeping with Mike's wife. In fact, most of the time when I see the second incidence mentioned, it's used to laugh at Mike's expense. Dennis' womanizing is very rarely looked upon in a poor light by the fans as far as I have seen, so I see no problem in someone pointing out the fact that yeah, sleeping with your cousin's wife is pretty bad.

As sweet a guy as he was, I do find it rather worrying that at the age of 21 Brian was welcomed with open arms into the Rovell household to date their 14 (or was it 15?) year old daughter. Either her parents were very liberal or very naive!  :o

It's documented in one of the books that Mae Rovell's view was "better under my roof than in the back seat of a car somewhere". At the time, Marilyn was 14, going on 15 to Brian's 20.

Being raised in a family with a shallow sense of self-worth can create a lifetime of sexual boundary issues...obviously so for the Wilson lads (or at least Brian & Dennis).

Thank you!  That's kind of where I was headed, besides trying to defend Dennis' honor - which has always been difficult...

Not to pick on him to much, but you would think that Dennis would have at least stayed away from any of Brian's female friends. I always thought that Dennis and Brian had a special relationship. You'd think that at least Brian would be off limits.

In Dennis' last few years many felt as though his soul was gone. I remember when Barbara told me that back in 2002. Daryl Dragon also told me that he didn't recognize Dennis towards the end… Walked right by Dennis and didn't know who he was.

Like Dennis...Brian also hit on women constantly, and the boundaries of family apparently had no meaning to him. My Diane and The Little Girl I Once Knew are just two examples. Christ, Brian even hit on David Marks' mom! Karen Lamm told me that during her marriage to Dennis...Brian was constantly flirting with her and telling her she was too good for Dennis and that she should be with him. He got away with crap like that because he was "crazy"...but he knew what he was doing. And everyone here seems to be assuming that the other band members wives were "seduced" by Dennis...anyone think it might have been the other way around...that maybe Dennis was the one being chased? Brian, Mike and Dennis were all notorious womanizers, Dennis has the worst reputation because he was a little more blatant and prolific, but his brother and cousin were no slouches in their own way.

I'm sorry, but who was "Little Girl I Once Knew" written about?

TheThe youngest Rovell sister, Barbara, right

This has taken on a whole different direction then I intended, but find this all very interesting. I didn't know about all of this. It is often said that Carl is the most stable of them all (except for Al). I didn't see his name mentioned above, so I assume that he was sexually more mature then his brothers and Mike? Did Carl ever hit on friends of family's girl friend's/wives?

 

well..let's just say at times he didn't go with the group in certain "ports of call"

What kind of women are these wives? Couldn't they say no? I know Dennis is hot and all, but you know....it takes two to tango.

Ports of call? Please clarify. Or send a picture  >:D

Man, this isn't a porn site.

How long was Brian and Diane's affair? Or, to continue with the nautical references: when did the USS Brian pull dock into Port Diane?

Thanks Jon for defending Dennis in bringing up the, apparantly not so obvious, point that Dennis was HOT!!! I mean, I'm sure Brian and Mike could do the business and all that, but neither guy WAS DENNIS who MUST have been tempting to these wives!

Btw, as this topic goes off the rails, did any of the Beach Boys cheat on their wives with each other?

Any Dennis/Al or Dennis/Bruce action ever go down?

LOL! I really don't know what 'Port of Call' means, although, I am guessing it is something dirty.

No woman could say no to "The Wood".   :hat

And apparently, none did.  ;D

nope...

Ummm... well, it was evidently over and done by 1976 (hence "My Diane"), so... maybe about 10 years. Ish. But don't quote me on that.

I'll ask Bruce next time we talk...  ;)

I knew there were hidden messages in "Going Public"


As for Tears in the Morning...........!

You can catch a glimpse of Barbara Rovell in a piece of black & white footage of mine, (viewable in American Band, I'm pretty sure, and probably several other documentaries), where she & Brian are tossing a ball to each other in a pool.

Could it mean in certain cities on tour, Carl made his own 'hotel' arrangements?

I think I heard there was some Rieley/Rieley action....umm

By a strange coincidence, I stumbled upon some of my pool footage in (presumably) a 'fan' film.  It's "Wouldn't It Be Nice", using a variety of sources:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L--cqAI3IUI   You'll see Barbara Rovell cavorting in the swimming pool with Brian & his dogs at the very beginning & the very end.  (Sorry, but that's the way the original film looks!  Problem was with the camera...)

Ed -- how is this your footage? You landed in L.A. in August '69 -- the pool/dog footage is clearly late '66/early '67. I'm confused.

How is it mine?  Jeez, you're a fine one to ask???  It's mine by virtue of the fact that it was shot by Dennis, (and other than the year, can you tell what was shot by DW or me?), and placed in the the Roach-Clips Archive, where it's been stored & preserved for 44 years!!!.  But thanks for asking,  I guess!

I misunderstood you saying "some of my pool footage" -- I thought you meant that you had shot it. That's how it read(s). Although I obviously can't tell who a cameraman is on a piece of footage -- I CAN tell by by the fact of Brian's frame, his shirt, his hair, and the signature single sideburn of the winter of '67, that the footage was of that exact era.  And since I know that you moved out West the weekend of Woodstock, I was confused. Now I'm not.

I had always wondered why Dennis wasn't in that footage. Now it makes sense, knowing he shot it.

Hey, he does only have one sideburn...what's up with that?

In case they went out of style, he could just turn the other way. ;D