The Smiley Smile Message Board

of Daddy Dear's singer, and yes...it is Brian Wilson.

Here's my proof:

- Listen to BHITM. Al's lead, of course. both songs are in about the same range. Brian clearly has a deeper tone to his voice.
- Listen to Break Away (Alternate Version). You can hear the same pronunciation of syllables, bends, + that unique weepy sound in Brian's voice from that period
- This is gonna sound weird, but listen to the outtake from Hawthorne, CA of the SLC sessions. When Brian laughs, at the "whack it off" line, compare this with how he sings "fly", it's that ah sound that totally identifies Brian
- Listen to the Daddy Dear recording and then listen to the demo of Mount Vernon and Fairway, well that's what finally sold me.
- Oh yeah, and lastly, as one of the youngest members on this board, my hearing is in tip-top shape

((have a listen)) all you naysayers (AGD included) ;)

Yeah, but if you've heard Brian's vocals from that same period...he didn't sound like that anymore. He hadn't reached his 15 Big ones voice yet, but there was a noticeable change. Al, however, did.

What would seal the deal is if we had a date for the recording, or at least narrowed it down to the week.

I have a theory that the fist apperance/evidence of Brian's "new voice" is the Don't You Just Know It outtake with Jan Barry(berry?). BUt that's a whole other topic, and another big can of worms.  ;D

I've heard this (daddy dear) but since lost it. Erm, could anyone please point me in the direction of this recording??

I will probably get yelled at for this.  ;D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUkB6X8mMhg

He's not quite hoarse or off key, but it's fairly obvious that he's struggling.

No yelling needed, as that's from you tube :D

That's a great example, esp around 0:59. 

Hey thanks so much for the link. I had never heard this. It was Daddy dear I was referring to though (my mistake)!

Listened. See (or hear...) nothing there to change my previously stated opinion.

BTW, the audio you're using to 'prove' your point dates from, respectively, four, three and seven years earlier (and Brian was speaking then, not singing). Granted the "Fairytale" 'journalist' tape is contemporary, but is also, were this possible, even worse audio quality.

1:37 to about 1:41 is another part that sticks out to me.

Brian's vocal for "DYJKI" was recorded 1970, reportedly.

I know this is kinda off topic, but I just wanted to say that that song, "Don't you just know it", by Jan and Brian is officially available on this disc:
http://www.musicload.de/jan-dean/fun-city/musik/album/6354552_2 (http://www.musicload.de/jan-dean/fun-city/musik/album/6354552_2)

It used to be on amazon, too, but I couldn't find it now. I think it's the only release to get it officially from

I think that's Brian AND Al.
In Daddy Dear, Brian and Al try to sing. I heard the two voices.
And in Susie, only Al try to play and sing his own song.

It's on  Amazon as an MP3 download album

http://www.amazon.com/Fun-City/dp/B001NKQK78

Dont You Just Know it is pretty cool. Never heard it!

Now here's the interesting thing about this track...I've heard an alternate version of this on some b**tleg or other somewhere, and there's a different Brian vocal, probably an earlier take, and Brian is REALLY struggling with the vocal, especially the transition to and from falsetto.

If this is from 1970, this is a good example of how Brian's voice in '70 HAD deteriorated since '66, even though it's not immediately obvious from listening to his vocals on record at the time (and which a lot of people have questioned, suggesting that his voice was pretty much untouched until '74).  He still had a lot of his range and the youthful tone to his voice, but it had gotten harder to control and required a lot more effort to sing.  It's also worth a reminder that your ability to sing can vary drastically from day to day, and if your health is poor it can create all kinds of issues with inflammation, sinus infections, etc., that can mess with your voice as well.  Some of that was probably in play...and drug use, particularly cocaine and pot smoking, can mess with your voice pretty badly too.

After '74 the basic tone of Brian's voice changed drastically and it was nearly impossible to cover up (though they managed it on MIU), but a lot of other other issues were already in play...they just didn't prevent getting a good vocal take on record, necessarily.

Btw, I've never heard "Daddy Dear" so I can't weigh in on who sang it.

The interesting thing is that he was able to pull it through and do a very good vocal on "Doncha Just Know It" despite the earlier trouble.

I am unabashed fan of Brian's 1970-71 ("Awake" primarily) vocals, but really you can start to hear a difference in the tone and the way he's singing. It's not the full voiced angelic, almost effortless voice of previous years (the falsetto leads like "California Girls" and "Hushabye"), but a more mature and controlled effort. The best thing I can thing of that effected him is age, as early as the SMiLE sessions he was starting to show a bit of vocal decline i.e. on the early take of "Vegetables" he is noticeably a bit pitchier than Mike on his section. With "Friends" he's back on top but he's noticeably aged a bit, he sounds great but it's a different style.

There's a number of factors involved.

I would very much like to hear the version you mentioned...

- Oh yeah, and lastly, as one of the youngest members on this board, my hearing is in tip-top shape


[/quote]
I doubt you are the youngest. 14, beat THAT.

Well, one of the youngest.  :3d

I doubt you are the youngest. 14, beat THAT.
[/quote]

Most 14 year olds I know use misspellings and "lolspeak" to try to look kewl on teh inner netz. u no wut i meen?

Most 14 year olds I know use misspellings and "lolspeak" to try to look kewl on teh inner netz. u no wut i meen?
[/quote]

Really ?  I figured they did that because they can't spell in the first place.

This isn't one of those situations where I have to be coy about where I heard it to not get someone in trouble....I honestly don't remember where I heard it but it probably was on one of a number of vinyl J & D boots from the late '80s.  I still have them somewhere but I don't have a record player anymore.

Most 14 year olds I know use misspellings and "lolspeak" to try to look kewl on teh inner netz. u no wut i meen?
[/quote]

Dude!  Awesome.  Great to have you here.

I was 14 when I got into the Beach Boys and let me tell you, it was NOT something than won me a lot of popularity!  That was back in the '80s and they hadn't fully gotten their due yet at that point.

Dude!  Awesome.  Great to have you here.

I was 14 when I got into the Beach Boys and let me tell you, it was NOT something than won me a lot of popularity!  That was back in the '80s and they hadn't fully gotten their due yet at that point.
[/quote]Ha! I saw my first Beach Boys concert at the age of seven.  ;D

I think another factor in the late '60s decline of Brian's voice is that he probably wasn't singing regularly any more. After he stopped touring with the BBs he was still recording a lot of vocal parts, but after '67 he started to relinquish more and more parts to the other guys.



By the time of the Jim Pewter interview (summer? fall?) 1974, Brian's speaking voice is already noticeably lower.  Pitch-wise it's not too far from the way it would sound by '76, although it doesn't have any of the gravelly quality that it took on by that time.  It's surprising to me that those who've heard the '74 California Feeling report that it sounds about 75% like the old Brian. Then again his falsetto sounds pretty good on the late '74 Rollin' Up to Heaven.  Apparently whatever he did to sabotage his voice in '75 took it quickly to the point of no return.

O snap i kno! dood she's like totes dum ud think she never gradu8ed nizzle!

REALLY good point about not singing regularly anymore.  You're right, that was probably the overriding factor with everything else just contributing.

I'm one of the ones that heard "California Feeling" and yeah, he's pretty good on there for awhile, but you can tell there's some stuff he just can't get.  He also seemed (to my ears) to lose focus towards the end of the song, so it may be that there was a force of effort required to get the notes out.  I've also heard one other song from a little later in '74 that is almost exactly 50-50 old-new Brian.  The final change seems to have come on pretty rapidly.

I've never quite understood how people can say "Rollin' Up to Heaven" is vintage Brian; he sounds good on it, the pitch is good and clear but he's nasal and straining. IMO he had already declined. Once again, his '76 voice is gruffer and not even close pitch-wsie, but he was getting older already and the falsetto was already leaving him by '72, in 1972 he did some good stuff but none of his great falsettos like "Awake" the year before. I'd say '71 was the last time he sounded unquestionably great and vintage Brian.

In terms of losing the falsetto, even in the late 60s it wasn't what it had been. 
For example, Add Some Music; listening to the vocal only mix especially, you can really hear how nasal and weak his falsetto has become, especially compared to something like Hushabye, where his falsetto is practically a force of nature, 6 years earlier. 

Agreed. The coke  (thus, more smoking) brought it on, but after Murry died, from my understanding, that's when he REALLY started hitting the powder hard. Also...was he shooting up heroin, or was he smoking it? If it was the latter, that would explain a whole hell of a lot. For those who are familiar with Stone Temple Pilots...right after Purple is when Weiland started smoking heroin. That, his heavy coke usage, and a brief flirtation with crack (!) led to his own much changed voice by the next album...

Brief flirtation with crack? When?

Late seventies. Reportedly, the final straw for Marilyn was when she came home one day and found Brian in the hallway, trying to get Carnie, who was nine, ten or so at the time, to snort some horse with him. I've never seen this denied by any of the principals.

:lol I was referring to Scott Weiland's drug use, and comparing it to Brian's (as both went through a REAL noticeable vocal change in a short time span). He did crack for about a month in 1995.

But back to Brian...so he *was* snorting heroin. That will certainly screw up someone's voice. But if he wasn't doing it in 1974 or 1975, then that wasn't to blame.

The thing about Brian's voice that's confusing(at least to me) is the fact that when he lost his voice, it wasn't just hoarse. The whole tone of his voice changed...even his speaking voice. Listen to him in 1970, then listen to him five or six years later. It doesn't even sound like the same person. It's a 100% change in his voice. NOTHING of his younger voice was left. Even when he tried to do falsetto, it sounded like a different person. He did a decent job at first(Sherry She Needs Me for example), but even then it didn't sound like Brian singing.

"Don't You Just Know It" has signs of a 15 Big Ones sounding Brian?

That's news to me - I think he sounds great there, and sounds just like every other late 60s/early 70s Brian vocal, to me.

The sad thing is, Weiland sounded a thousand times better after that, to me. I'm thinking of the Tiny Music album - I couldn't get into much else after that, but I enjoy his style on that album about a thousand times more than their first two albums. He tended to sound like a typical asshole rawker sh*t head of the era on those, although the songwriting was noice enough.

Brian, on the other hand, didn't benefit from it :(

There's a difference between sounding like his later voice (which I don't think anybody said), and there being ample evidence that his voice had deteriorated by that point (which I think we all said).

Brian was certainly using cocaine as early as 1968 if not the bare end of 1967. The heroin came in around 1974-75 or so, although it became much worse by 1977. Look at the Largo footage. If that concert ever gets an official release, virtually every shot of Brian will be edited out for one good reason - he's rubbing his nose every ten seconds it seems. Apparently Brian and Dennis' absence during the middle part of the show was for the two of them to share moonrocks* with each other.

*Moonrocks are the smoked equivalent of speedballs aka cocaine and heroin in one hit.

Why do you say that?
I always thought it started in 1971, but that's just me.

Peter Carlin mentioned it in his book, and I believe Danny Hutton mentioned it at one point - he would know too, he apparently was the one who gave it to Brian!

I think it states in Brian's "autobiography" that the cocaine started around the 20/20 period. I don't know how much faith I would put into that though.

Have you by chance read Chuck Negron's autobiography? It talks a lot about Danny HUtton, and how messed up he got. To put it in a polite way....I don't think Danny Hutton would know his nose if it were on his own face.  ;D It's literally a miracle that the man remembers his own name.

It certainly adds fuel to the Lovester's stance on the "hangers-on" during the Smile period.

I've always liked the hangers-on...the Vosse Posse!

Hutton stayed around far after the Smile sessions, though, right?

Sure. Isn't Redwood Hutton's group? That's at least a year later. Plus I thought he was involved in the Iggy Pop Shortenin' Bread scene in '70 or so.

Technically Danny Hutton was around through thick and thin in Brian's life.

Where did you hear/read about that?

Watch the Largo footage! It's obvious as hell. They both came back onstage after All This Is That and it's quite obvious that the two of them are f***ed up out of their minds on the sh*t.

To me Dennis looks really out of it. It's possible that he was on heroin and nodding out. He falls during Surfer Girl and damn near hits the floor.  Mike actually moves out of the way, instead of helping him, if I remember correctly.  ;D