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I was wondering about this today on the way home from work. As they were both dismissed at the hands of the groups management at the time I would appreciate any info on the circumstances surrounding these two incidents. I'm well aware Jack Rieley HATED Bruce - that's public knowledge. In contrast the whole Blondie thing seems rather vague. Just how did the hiring/firing work in the BB's? Jack Rieley is hired by the band and sacks Bruce. Now surely he would need the express consent of all the other members to do so? That may sound like a daft question but the point I'm trying (rather longwindedly) to make is it's always stated that Jack fired Bruce but if he had to get the others to agree to this then in reality The Beach Boys sacked Bruce (just at the instigation of Rieley).  Now I have read that at the time Bruce was somewhat on the outs with the others anyway so there probably wasn't much of a fight put up from either side. But did anybody fight Blondie's corner when the same thing happened a few years later to him? Family ties or not does anybody actually feel that Steve Love was more valuable to the BB's at this time than Blondie? Didn't Carl fight to keep him in at least? I feel it's VERY overlooked that losing Blondie effected the groups sound to a huge degree. Very big mistake IMO.

Bruce: depends on who you listen to as to what happened. Bruce himself says he wasn't happy with the direction in which Rieley was taking the band, so he quit, amicably. According to Brian, there was a huge bust-up. But all agree, Bruce left - he wasn't fired.

Blondie: similarly, he quit, after a backstage altercation with then-manager Steve Love at Madison Square Garden, December 19th, 1973. Allegedly, racial epithets were applied to him.

So, neither fired.

Bruce claims he didn't like Rieley's ideas for the band; Brian claims a huge argument led to Bruce's departure. Allegedly, Bruce was sick and tired of the heavy drug use on the part of the Wilsons and Blondie Chaplin.

The Blondie situation stemmed from Steve Love bitching at him about chewing gum onstage. When Blondie fired back, Steve allegedly took the gum out of his mouth and threw it in his face and let a number of racial slurs fly at him.

When did Brian say this? Also important to keep in mind that the BB tried (AFAIK, and if anyone wants to correct me go ahead) to replace Johnston with Hinsche around 1970.

The story about Bruce being fired... 1. Was Billy Hinsche invited to be a Beach Boys like Bruce, photo-wise? 2. What the heck, in the next album Bruce got two compositions and three lead vocals. Those guys are nuts.

mike also said bruce left on his own after a group meeting. very amicable. said so in a new musical express june 10 1972 interview.

Brian said that 1972/1973. You're trying to argue against established fact - neither Bruce nor Blondie was fired. They quit.

And yes, you're correct - Billy was asked if he'd like to replace Bruce 1969/1970.

And I'll bet every day of his life, Billy says "thank f*** I didn't become a member!" Imagine how things could have gone...

What do you think would have been different with Billy as a Member of the Beach Boys?

Believe me, I'm not trying to argue established fact---I believed you in the first place just never heard that Brian had said that and wanted to confirm that Billy was mentioned. Still friends? ;D

I'll ask my wifeandmanagers.  ::)

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

WOW. I think we have a new funniest post ever on this board.

If memory serves, despite JR's tales of the band split into factions, both Dennis and Mike weren't exactly warm towards Bruce in intervews after he'd left, but, as you say, he turned up on albums afterwards and continued to play the odd gig until he was asked to produce LA. Then again, Carl didn't want him in the photo for Ten Years Harmony and he had, after all, appeared as a bona fide BB (as opposed to 'guest') on five of the studio albums from this period, including those from which most of the songs were taken and some of his songs were on the album! Those crazy Beach Boys!

I think Carl just wanted the picture to represent those Beach Boys who were "official" over the whole span of time covered by the compilation, so no Blondie, Bruce or Ricky, even though they were all official members at different points along the way.

As far as the idea of Bruce behing fired, that seems to stem from two Leafs:  David Leaf wrote in his book, "The one member who never wanted to leave the band was ultimately let go in the spring of 1972.  An Earl Leaf gossip column noted that 'On the seventh anniversary of attaining his official status as a Beach Boy, guitarman Bruce Johnston got the axe.  Carl Wilson, Mike Love and Al Jardine voted unanimously to drop him from the group due to hostile vibes his lefeways caused them.'"  DL then goes on to write, "Bruce claims that he left the group by mutual consent, but regardless of how 'mutual' the decision was, there is no question that it was Jack Rieley who forced Bruce out of the group.  Bruce:  'I don't know if he was trying to get rid of me; I think he was just trying to redirect a band.'"  Leaf, Gaines, and Bruce himself also imply that Bruce was trying to convince the group to sack Rieley.

I didn't know Blondie was a drug user, what kind?

Tea.

And, of course, Bruce's best song was recorded during this era...

While we're on this time period could anyone please point me to the last group photo with Bruce before he left? I've seen it before I believe, but can't find a copy. Thanks.

David Leaf's book (2nd edition), p149. Everyone except Brian.

Cool info and opinions guys. Another Beach Boys myth busted! I do strongly get the feeling if Bruce hadn't quit he would have been pushed out before much longer. There is an interview with Mike in the Badman book shortly after his going and while Mike in no way trashes BJ and is cordial throughout you can kind of tell he isn't exactly sorry to see him go. Ironic seeing as Bruce is now universally regarded as the Lovester's right hand man. I also recall a group interview in the book from about 1970 where Bruce complains to Brian live in mid interview that he wishes the group were less democratic and more ruled by Brian. Not what you should really say in an interview is it?

Which brings another interesting question. What did Carl and Al think of Bruce when he returned? Obviously, he was voted back in right? Was it unanimous?

Initially he was brought in to help with the singing, then production, and almost immediately the road.  When the "Light Album" was released, Carl said in an interview (Time Barrier Express), "Alan and I had been talking with each other and we both said how great it would be for Bruce to come back in, and be involved with us.  Dennis had also expressed that on his own, and Brian totally independently...had called Bruce and said 'Come on down to Miami".   Notice how Mike wasn't mentioned!  It was supposed to be a temporary return, but the rest is history!

Yeah, I've seen that edited one. Isn't there one with Brian in the back, looking depressed as hell, drinking a beer? I'm pretty sure I've seen such a photo (online even) but can't seem to find a copy of it...thanks for the help though.

My feeling is that Brian's call to Bruce to come down to Florida coming straight after Yetnikoff making his famous statement about being royally rogered is somewhat less than a coincidence.

Consider - Brian can't (or won't) do it... Carl's still cleaning his act up... Dennis - yeah, OK... Alan tried with MIU... and Mike doesn't do production. What was the alternative ?

http://beachboyscentral.com/ (http://beachboyscentral.com/)

Didn't Jimmy Guercio produce POB? Was there any thought of bringing him on? Anyone consider Phil Spector? Although he was a nut case even at around that time according to the Ramones. Having said all that, I think the LALA was very well produced. Not so much for KTSA.

No. Dennis Wilson and Gregg Jakobson produced POB, Guercio took a decidedly hands off approach to that record considering his production experience. He wanted it to be Dennis' sound 100%, that was his goal, he wrote the checks and stayed out of the way.

The saddest part of the whole thing is that Brian, after being hospitalized and apparantley making progress what taken out and swiftly flown to Florida to work on the album. Always seemed like a bad decision in hindsight.

Ah, those sessions. I've had some questions surrounding that. There seems to be conflicting stories about them. One story, by someone who was present at the sessions when Brian was producing by himself (the rest of the group was on the road or something for a week or two), claims that Brian was recording this genius experimental music. He was usually all of these specially tuned organs, guitars, and synthesizers, and supposedly it sounded almost like Pet Sounds (my guess would be that it sounded more like "Just Once In My Life", although that would've been great, too). There were going to be spoken word segments and all kinds of weird things worked on.

Now, here's where the story gets complicated:
Brian has a breakdown, supposedly, a few days into the recording sessions after receiving a phone call. Some say it was Marilyn that called him  while others say that it was the record company. I've heard some claim that the "gentlemen, we've had (the actually word he used wasn't had, but a certain expletive that starts with an F)" comment that a record exec made was a result of him hearing the recordings Brian had worked on. Personally, I've heard an early mix of "Calendar Girl" (a cover song Brian was working on during the sessions) that seems to have some of the elements that the dude at the sessions claims Brian was incorporating (such as weird organ sound that resembles a calliope organ), and it doesn't sound that good. It could be, though, that the version of "Calendar Girl" I heard is nothing like what Brian did.

Then, it goes, that the band came to Miami about a week later and listened to what Brian had been doing. They thought that it sounded crazy and began erasing a lot of what Brian had done. The dude who had been at the Brian sessions was outraged but there was nothing he could do.

Is that what really happened? To me, it sounds like the session dude was a little too awe-struck by Brian's presence that he over-exaggerated the quality of the tracks.

What's the truth?

Oh, and those pictures on beachboyscentral.com are terrible. Bruce looks like a gremlin!

Ooh...good question!

Al looks out of it, to say the least...what the heck was he smoking? And Dennis looks pretty skinny.

Ok, then how about Gregg Jakobson?

Well...they DID bring Jimmy G. on (have you never seen the production credits for "L.A. Light"?).

The description is definetly exciting, but Brian recorded nothing like that between 75 and forever, and the sessions that might have that kind of music... are lost. I'm not buying it too.

Who said this?  Carli?

I didn't do my homework

Beach Boys/Bruce Johnston/Jim Guercio, or something like that.

I think Jim G. may have started it, but then Chicago was going through some turbulent times with the recent Terry Kath tragedy and he chose to focus his attention on them.

Guercio and Chicago severed their producer/artist relations in late '77 to early '78, that break-up was occurring before Kath's death. Guercio's attention in '78 was primarily focused on directing the film Tom Horn starring Steve McQueen, that became an epic meltdown in itself with Guercio eventually removing himself from the film in mid-shoot, Kath's death, not to mention Dennis, Carl and Brian's combined spiral made it a tough year for Jim, but it was Tom Horn that took up his time and energy.

No, but he was there.  The "session dude" referred to by Dada above was Ed Carter.  Ed Roach was also present and remembers it the same way.  The other Beach Boys were not "on the road or something for a week or two" (as the presence of Ed Carter proves)...the Miami sessions involved the Beach Boys and their support band of the time.  

IIRC, didn't Guercio produce "Good Timin'," which was worked on in '74 and December '78.

Is it known what ever became of these recordings that Brian was doing? Are they "lost"? Buried deep inside some vault? Or did Brian immediately have them erased once they were "finished"?

Some of them circulate. The version of Brian's Back that circulates with no lead vocal and a rather quirky backing track is from these sessions, as is Calendar Girl.

Well, based on the Time Barrier Express quote of Carl above, probably...the only guy not mentioned as being favorable of Bruce's return is Mike!

As is "California Feeling" (Carl singing lead with Bruce doing a cameo in a couple of places).

Yes.  He's quoted as saying that Dennis was the only guy who could get Brian working at the '74 Caribou Ranch session, and that he (Guercio) let Bruce finish the song in '78, but that in his opinion Bruce "didn't get the mix right".