The Smiley Smile Message Board

Everyone talks about Phil Spector or Burt Bacharach as major influences on Brian during Pet Sounds, but what about Martin Denny? A lot of the percussion ideas are straight out of Martin Denny exotica records. "Pet Sounds" and "Let's Go Away For Awhile" are as much tributes to Martin Denny as they are to anyone else, right down to the way the sitar is integrated into "Let's Go Away...". Also, Brian's use of the vibraphone is without a doubt directly influenced by Martin Denny. Denny drenched a lot of his records in vibraphone. The odd mishmash of different instruments on Pet Sounds and Smile (and Friends, even) is something I'd guess to be influenced by Denny. Adding exotic instruments to typical American instrumental ensembles was one of Denny's calling cards in the 50s.

"Diamond Head" is an obvious stab at exotica.

Now, Brian definitely wrote better songs than Denny, who was quite formulaic. Still, his exotica records were a definite part of Brian's growth as a producer and shouldn't be overlooked by fans who want to understand how Pet Sounds and other albums came into being.

BTW, there is a melody that starts at about 0:37 in "Sake Rock" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avfMq1gNY9Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avfMq1gNY9Q)) that I swear was in Beach Boys song or a Phil Spector song. Some pop song from the '60s. It could be that it originated from a common popular song and they both borrowed it from that. Still, I want to know what song it is! It's driving me crazy...  ??? Also, that song strangely reminds me of "Holidays".

The influence probably isn't discussed because Brian's never really mentioned it in interviews.  I think Brian definitely took a cue from exotica/lounge music in his arrangement style.  Besides Denny, a lot of Les Baxter stuff sounds like it could have been an influence.

Another thing, Julius Wechter, who played vibes on "Let's Go Away For Awhile" was actually IN Martin Denny's band at one point, so to hear similarities there isn't all that surprising.

I kind of wish there was a greater understanding of what music Brian was actually listening to back then.  Was he really listening to Martin Denny and other exotica records?  All he ever talks about are Spector, The Four Freshmen, The Beatles and Bacharach.

And Gershwin and Stephen Foster

I think he had to be. You could have sampled the percussion on songs like "Pet Sounds" and "God Only Knows" from Martin Denny records and no one would have been the wiser. The vibraphone and the woodblocks... yeah, Spector used them a few times, but not in this way. It clearly had all of the hallmarks of exotica. "Diamond Head", as I said before, is a pretty clear admission of Brian's exotica influence. It is an exotica record, really.

Check out Dumb Angel Gazette #4 for more on exotica and its influence on Brian. Excellent article.

listen to the "Quiet Village" album by MD-vibes and congas all over the place-you can tell this was in Brian's record collection and was one of his favorites.

vaguely seems like Brian has mentioned this influence at some point. might have been prodded out of him... can't recall now.

A fascinating topic, Dada.  Martin Denny and Les Baxter exotica influences are all over Pet Sounds, but I had never thought about it before your mention of it here.

Wish I had purchased Dumb Angle Gazette #4 so I could read the exotica articles and the info on their influence on BW.

Can this article be found somewhere online?  Or does anyone have a scan?

Les Baxter also scored all of the Beach Party movies...which Gary Usher and Roger Christian wrote the songs for (along with Brian on, I believe, Muscle Beach Party).  Whether that connection ever brought Brian and Baxter into the same room?  But I figured it was worth mentioning

Wow, fascinating.  I'd love to study the article from DUMB ANGEL.

Just a random thought I had: we know that "You Still Believe In Me" was originally called "In My Childhood", hence the bicycle sound effects. Well, one day, as an ice cream truck drove by, it struck me. The melodic twelve string part that starts off at the beginning of the verses (and other parts), which kind of sounds like a music box, also sounds a lot like the classic ice cream truck song. That is, if you played it slower and changed the chords and consequently the melody so that it was more melancholic and complex. It would totally fit the childhood mood, too. Somehow I'm also willing to bet that Brian was fond of the ice cream truck as a kid, given his love for it as an adult.

There's no way to prove that Brian was influenced by that, but I believe it for some reason. Even if it was just subconscious.

Listen to this about 50 seconds in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZB6WXDuM1g

Wild coincidence you would say this, & now. I've been trying to woo a hot girl I met recently by turning her on to BW/BB tracks, & just yesterday — the same day you posted this — she sent me her reaction to YSBIM:

"Bell sounding, oboe? That’s pretty, the little bell parts sound almost like a ice cream truck but then moves into something really pretty. I like this."

That's because... I'm that girl!!!!  :hat

 :lol

I can't really get around the bird calls and tribal yelling in Denny's music....the music is outstanding however. I just bought 'The Exotic Moods of Les Baxter' and am totally awed. I LOVE 'Let's Go Away For Awhile' and though Les Baxter is obviously far more exotic, you can still hear how Brian was influenced by this genre.

Along similar lines, I've been searching for any good Bossa Nova albums (I can't get enough of 'Busy Doin' Nothin'')...I've heard some of Astrud Gilberto - but that's about it...anyone have any suggestions?

A couple bossa nova albums it wouldn't hurt to have are:

Antônio Carlos Jobim - Wave
João Gilberto - Legendary: The Original Bossa Nova Recordings 1958-61
Various - Roots Of Bossa Nova 1948-57

The first two are considered to be the co-founders of the style as far as I understand it and the albums presented are their magnum opuses (the Gilberto, it should be noted, is actually a three-album compilation that is now out of print, I believe). The latter compilation collects some stuff by them as well as others from that time period in Brasil who helped develop the sound, so it is not only historically important but also excellent listenin' too. I'm not a huge jazz head -- let alone a scholar of bossa nova -- but I think those are probably some can't-go-wrong albums. Anyone else who knows more than I do, feel free to school me!

Thanks! Adding 'Wave' to my shopping cart now....exactly what I'm looking for. As I was trying to find that dumb angel gazette #4 on the internet, I stumbled upon http://dumbangelmag.blogspot.com/ (http://dumbangelmag.blogspot.com/) - which led me to looking up 'The Versatile Henry Mancini' - WOW! http://www.amazon.com/Versatile-Henry-Mancini/dp/B001E2N5IC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280600823&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Versatile-Henry-Mancini/dp/B001E2N5IC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280600823&sr=1-1)

listen to the first song sample - sounds JUST like a cut from 'Pet Sounds'....

If you want to try out something leaning more toward jazz than traditional bossa nova, try the Miles Davis (with Gil Evans) album Quiet Nights, which has a few bossa nova style tunes done by a great band with some typically cool Evans arrangements.

 :o I love to say Dada, but I don't love Dada!

Wow, I've never heard of 'Quiet Nights' even though 'Birth of the Cool' is one of my favorite albums....adding Quiet Nigts to my shopping cart as well....I have a lot of music to listen to in the next few weeks!

So, I've been searching for exotica albums the last hour or so. I found an amazing album 'Eden's Island' by Eden Ahbez (very much recommend it). I then started researching Eden Ahbez and found, by surprise, that Eden Ahbez went to a SMiLE session (and there is apparently a photograph of him and Brian Wilson in the studio).

Just an interesting fact; and if anyone has any information on this, feel free to reply!

Why isn't Esquivel mentioned more in relation to Song Cycle?

Agree/disagree: Capital purposefully underpromoted Brian's non-BBs productions to keep him working with the group.

Considering the songs that were released as singles -- and what shows up on Ace UK's Pet Projects -- I don't think Brian's non-Beach-Boys productions were really worth promoting, honestly. They seem to me to be what any sensible big-shot producer does when s/he is associated with a group of their own: they try out various songwriting or production techniques out-of-house and then bring 'em in-house once they're perfected to be used with his or her primary group, with all the attendant success. Are you really surprised "She Rides With Me" or "Surfin' Down The Swanee River" didn't sell anything or were barely promoted? I don't think you should be...

Bear in mind that not all Brian's non-BB productions were on Capitol.

I disagree that whatever record company underpromoted any/most/some of Brian's non-BBs productions, at least after Brian had produced a hit for the BBs. It doesn't make sense first of all to me. And it has been too long but I believe if you look for it you can find the evidence of vigorous promotion, stuff like surveys showing airplay on radio, trade ads, Universal Soldier was even on national U.S. TV [Shindig, Hullabaloo?]. I think supposed underpromotion is probably a rumor/excuse started back in the day when it was considered an inconvenient truth that Brian couldn't buy a hit outside of the BBs either. Brian could co-write a song that was a hit outside of the BBs but he could not produce a hit outside of the BBs it seems to me.

Edit: I said it had been too long [get it?]. According to YOUTube it was "Guess I'm Dumb" that was on Shindig. Maybe Universal Soldier was too but it was GID of which I was thinking.

The piece in Dumb Angel #4 — "The Marimba You Send Out, Returns To You" — was written by Tobias Bernsand and Brian Chidester. It explores the evolution of Exotica, from Les Baxter through Martin Denny and Arthur Lyman, and these composers' influence on Brian's "Pet Sounds" and "Smile" era music.

It also makes ties to Esquivel and Eden Ahbez. Great photo of BW and Ahbez in the studio, too.

M.

What is "Universal Soldier" ?

Just because "Guess I'm Dumb" was on national, doesn't mean it was promoted properly. Brian Wilson was all over TV for the Gerswhin project, and we see what happened there. "He's a Doll" is another song I'm surprised didn't at least chart.

Thanks! Anyone know where I can find a copy of the #4Dumb Angel for a reasonable price?

yes anyone, i'd love to read that issue.