The Smiley Smile Message Board

In a couple of threads recently, I've seen mention of "the stroke," as if Brian definitely had a stroke sometime in the 80s. I thought that at one point, someone who knew about these things had refuted this idea and said that the slurring was actually due to the effects of the drugs Landy was giving Brian.

So what's the real story?

I mentioned it on one thread because I read it recently in another. Not sure where the truth lies. If it was a stroke, then Landy is a little less evil then I thought.

Unofficially speculated, officially denied.

Brian has always spoken out of the side of his mouth (because of the deafness?). But the slurred speech didn't begin until the end of the Landy years / beginning of the immediate post-Landy years. Thus the rumors.

I think he likely hasn't, mainly because stroke patients in their late 40s - early 50s (which was Brian's age at the time this would have happened), don't tend to have the symptoms of more elderly patients. They often don't have slurred speech, for instance. They just talk more quietly and sometimes move more carefully and slowly. This doesn't really fit Brian's profile.

Second, if he had indeed suffered a stroke, don't you think he wouldn't have said it at some point? I mean, he's talked about his and Melinda's sex life and marital fights. He's told people on tour that he's pre-diabetic. Why wouldn't he mention this at some point?

Finally, psychotropic drugs can make people slur their speech slightly. I recall a college psychology class in which we had a schizophrenic speaker. Her disorder was controlled by drugs. And darned if she didn't sound like Brian.

All of those reasons aside, it can be really tempting to subscribe to the stroke theory, though. Something bad clearly happened to Brian in the latter years of the Landy regimen. And whatever it was, he's never quite recovered.

I think Brian actually got worse in the years immediately following Landy's "departure". Particularly in the years of 1992-1995. I have an old news broadcast talking about the Good Vibrations boxset, and Brian is interviewed. He's really in bad shape. Slurring badly, strange body movements, etc. I think the real low point was actually the interviews in I Just Wasn't Made For These Times. He looks pretty good, but you can hardly understand him, and he's all over the place.

I'm guessing that during this time they were still working on the right "cocktail" of medications.  That can really take some time with the kind of condition that Brian has.

FWIW, when I showed my doctor some videos of Brian in the late 1980s - including one of him jogging - unprompted he said "looks like that man's had a stroke, probably a small one  that he didn't even realise". I know it's been denied but...

What about all the doctors Brian has seen? Wouldn't any kind of medical records need to be disclosed?

In the US, a doctor who speaks publicly about private medical records is likley to be sued by the patient and possibly to lose their license to practice medicine, so that sort of info is less likely to turn up. It's unethical at best to do such things.

This sort of thing never seemed to bother Landy.

The good ol' "Doctor-Patient Privelege"!

Not just in US pretty much worldwide. In the UK, if you disclose medical information to a third party without patient consent you can pretty much kiss your job goodbye.

If Brian or any patient had a stroke, they are easily detected with cat scans and other procedures. When Brian went through the adoption process for his children, he had to provide full disclosure of his medical condition(s); he might've even been subjected to testing. Let's be honest, hardly anything is kept a secret anymore with celebrities. I just have to think that a stroke diagnosis would've crept out.

I will admit that he does talk like he had one. It's one thing to speak out of the side of your mouth; it's another to slur your speech while doing it.

You're missing one very germane point - as my doctor said, he might not know he's had one.

Or, and this makes my flesh crawl, Landy might have hushed it up.  :o

I'm not following you, Andrew. Are you saying that Brian could've been diagnosed as having a stroke, and not been informed of the diagnosis? Not necessarily by Landy, but by his present doctors? Even today? Melinda would not tell Brian? Surely she had him checked out.

I don't wanna beat the adoption dead horse, but there is a lot of paperwork and red tape involved in the adoption process. I'm sure one of the medical questionnaires had a question like, "Have you ever suffered from cancer, heart attack, STROKE, blah, blah, blah...."

Two possibilities:

1 - Brian had a minor stroke without him, or anyone else, realizing it. Undiagnosed.

2 - it was noted, but hushed up by the Landy regime.

Just thinking about the second makes my head spin, if that was covered up (which I am by no means saying it is) imagine what else was covered up and we don't even know about.

Absolutely, Landy could've covered it up. But would've Melinda? I mean, just picture Brian and Melinda dating or having dinner, and Brian is obviously slurring his speech. Now, we know how Melinda has mentioned a few times in interviews about "taking Brian to U.C.L.A." to get help, especially in conjunction with his mental illness. You don't think a stroke would've come to her mind when first dating Brian? Of course it did. And eventually, I'm sure sometime in their relationship she took Brian to have a series of tests. God forbid Brian did have a stroke, but if he did, and Melinda knew it, do you think she would've made it public? What do you think?

I'm no expert. When I watched Brian walk out in concert 2004 I thought one thing. That man has had a stroke on the right side. Just my observation.

Wasn't there an earlier, inconclusive discussion here on whether or not his slurred speech and various tics was due to tardive dyskinesia due to side effects from psychiatric medications past or present, Landy-sourced or otherwise?

this might seem weird, but it's hard not to Notice in the smile DVD the difference between his speech in the interviews before and after BWPS was released.

Yes, I do remember such a thread. I also remember a post from somebody (I don't remember their name, though) who had some background or knowledge about the medication that Landy prescribed for Brian. This poster stated that the powerful drugs could've caused slurring WHILE Brian was on the medication, but the drugs could not have long-lasting or permanent effects once Brian stopped taking the medication. That's not me talking, just recounting a post I remember.

For me, this slurred speech/stuttering goes way back to the 1984 Entertainment Tonight interview. Remember that one - "I have been up and down, over and under, this way and that way, but I'm still here, I'm still rocking". That interview shocked me for two reasons. First, it was the first time I saw Brian since he re-entered Landy's program in 1982, and I was shocked at how much weight he lost. With the trimmed beard, combed hair, and Hawaiian shirt - he looked great! However, you could immediately tell that something was seriously wrong. He was stuttering and stammering and running his tongue along the inside of his cheek. He also had the "deer in the headlights" look. That look. Ugh...I had this sick feeling in my stomach. As overweight and drug addicted Brian was in 1981, he STILL DIDN'T APPEAR to be "out of it". Now he did.

Not to be cruel at all but it kind of amazes me that Brian could adopt children considering his past. I'm not saying he doesn't love the kids or that he's a bad dad, but I just kind of wonder how he met the criteria.

People have misconceptions about adoption. My partner and I are working toward it now. If you have the money, the barriers are not high at all.  The state requires a social worker sign off on each couple, but in the case of folks like Brian and Melinda, it's clear they have the resources to provide a decent home. Brian is in reasonably sturdy physical health for a 50-60 something year old guy. That's really all it takes. You'd want to make sure he didn't take drugs anymore and received proper therapy and medication. But beyond that, you can't just forbid people from adoption because they seem quirky. An agency might, but attorneys can arrange private adoptions or surrogate pregnancies, and there are even fewer restrictions on those.

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Yup.

From what appears to be general, if slightly inside, knowledge, the first three weren't 'adopted' in the sense you & I understand it. All I'll say is, remember how much stress was laid on the entirely legal nature of Dash's adoption.

Private adoptions, in the United States, in which a woman signs over her newborn to a couple who pays her expenses, lawyers' fees and hospital fees, are entirely legal and proper. Really. You can deduct those expenses from your taxes. You can get to know the birth mother and have her involved in the lives of the kids if you want. The state is still involved, as are social service agencies.

In some states, these are the majority of adoptions. Lawyers have private connections with other lawyers across the country. These lawyers know women who want to give their infants up for adoption. It's handled without any orphanages or adoption agencies. I am assuming Brian and Melinda went through that process.

If that is indeed the case, there is nothing wrong with it. (There are certainly other, more informal, possibilities. But it seems Brian and Melinda would leave themselves wide open legally.)

claymcc and Andrew thanks for clearing some of the situation up for me. I didn't really know the details on how it all works.  Where is Dash from?

Brian's slurring comes and goes. Sometimes it seems like he slurs more if he's having a "bad day." Would slurring from the effects of a stroke come and go, or would it be constant?

Yes.

Folks w/ strokes (or chronic TD) are like the rest of us. They had good days and not so good days.

I believe it was Peter Reum.

But didn't he rehearse for some of those interviews?

I think it's the new pearly whites that he had put in his mouth around the time of the shows.

Yes, there is a distinct difference between the footage shot before Brian's new teeth went in and after!

Not diligently enough to put on a convincing performance.