The Smiley Smile Message Board

A companion topic, anyone?  ;D

Here are a few i don't quite get the love for.

The Smile version of Wind Chimes
The Night Was So Young
I Know There's An Answer
Big Sur (it's nice, but seems a little too saccharine for these non-cali ears)
She Says/Sherry/whatever, She Needs Me
Fun Fun Fun, apart from the fade

That's all i got so far

Vegetables and Do You Like Worms - Stoner BS

Good Timin' - Nice harmonies but the lyrics are so vague as to be meaningless

I Wanna Pick You Up - Simply dreadful vocally, lyrically and musically

Little Bird - Dennis went on to write much, much better songs

It's OK - Not bad but sounds more dated than the car songs the band recorded more than a decade earlier

Mount Vernon - It has some nice musical pieces but like most spoken word things, I very rarely find myself listening to it

In My Car - Some critics have called this the best song on SC but the lyrics are awful and the lead vocals weak

Doubtless there are more...

Let the wind blow

Help Me Rhonda
Keep an Eye on Summer
Good Vibes (especially the last half minute)
Wonderful (any version)
Add Some Music
Cali Girls (I kinda like the Hawaii version)

help me rhonda just cause it was one of their #1's. 

I think Love You is very overrated. Outside of a handful of tracks I can't get into it.
I like Today, Pet Sounds, Wild Honey, and Sunflower better then the Smile stuff even though I do love the Smile material. I guess it's fair to say that BWPS is overrated though I do basically like it.
Kokomo is overrated by some because it was a hit.

So far, the only one I agree with is "In My Car". ;D But that's OK; that's what makes the thread interesting!

1. "Wild Honey" - it's slightly too slow, the theramin(?) is grating, and it's possibly the only Carl lead vocal that I don't like - too forced; the 70's live version was an improvement, though.

2. "Let's Go Away For Awhile" - kinda boring (as I run for cover); Brian called it his "most satisfying piece of music" (huh?); would've benefitted from lyrics, in my early less-patient listenings of Pet Sounds I used to skip over this track to get to "Sloop".

3. "Take A Load Off Your Feet" - the vocals drive me nuts; Al was trying to be too cool; I know this song has some fans; it usually tops my poll of least favorite Beach Boys' songs.

4. "Meant For You" - What is so great about this song? It's too short, wimpy, and it should've CLOSED the album, not opened it!

5. "Male Ego" -  "shouty" Brian vocal, embarrassing lyrics, stiff production, one of those Landy-era rockers that were beneath what Brian used to do.

Most of Dennis's slow romantic ballads. I don't think they're bad or cheesy or anything, they just rarely give me that same special feeling I get when I listen to most Beach Boys songs. Even the songs that everyone thinks are lame (Mike's solo albums, Brian's Landy stuff, etc) have this wonderful magic to them and are often extremely catchy. I have Male Ego stuck in my head now just from reading SJS's post.

I used to /still occassionally do that too. The end's kind of nice, those slide guitar breaks are gorgeous, wouldn't you say?

Now I did the opposite and skipped Sloop John B. to get to GOK. In fact I still keep SJB off of my Pet Sounds play list and stick it in as an extra track after Summer Days.

I agree with Sheriff on "Meant for You" being a closer.  "Lonely Days" would have been another good snippet closer.

1. Roller Skating Child--makes me want to hurl
2. Honkin' Down the Highway--embarrassing
3. A Day in the Life of a Tree--dreadful
4. Solar System--childish, and not in a good way
5. Disney Girls--way out of place
6. Amusement Parks USA--has its moments but the time for this music had passed
7. I Wanna Pick You Up--disturbing
8. Hey Little Tomboy--equally disturbing
9. Johnny Carson--what the?
10. Tears in the Morning--annoying vocals


I hit Love You pretty hard.  Outside of a few tracks, it just plain stinks!

 

Wow, I've seen a lot of my favorite Beach Boys songs listed here! :3d That's ok though.

Songs I don't really care for....
1. All Summer Long
2. You're So Good To Me
3. Be True To Your School
4. Hang On To Your Ego

On most days, I'd consider a good chunk of SMiLE to be overrated by members of this board. Just personal preferences.

I'm a fan of MIU, but....

Of all the songs in the can that they could've chosen - OF ALL THE SONGS! - they picked "Hey Little Tomboy. ??? :o

I love most of Dennis's songs, but to me "Slip on Through" sounds more like a Partridge Family song that's tailor-made for David Cassidy. Dennis should have kept the "My love is growing..." bridge, trashed the rest, and started a new song.  For me it's also not a good start to Sunflower - the song's opening is just abrupt and dull.  I'd replace it with "Break Away."

And while I'm rearranging Sunflower, I'd dump "Tears in the Morning" (my all-time unfavorite BB's song) and replace it with "Lady (Fallin' in Love)"

I'm agreeing with some of the chocies here but I love "Slip on Through," "All Summer Long" the Smile and Love You stuff. My overrated choices are about half of the Holland album (Only with Love being a good song but not a good performance in my book, Carnegie Hall and Dennis' version is much better), "Tears in the Morning," the majority of basically everything after Dennis died.

Agree. I always thought an opening of "Add Some Music To Your Day", "Got To Know The Woman", and "Slip On Through" was a better opening sequence. But, I guess that's for another thread.

Is anybody sitting in the house with three feet of snow outside? And it still coming down! :o

Not to appear contradictory I think "Funky Pretty" is brilliant, underrated. And so does Brian (stating as much in the Classics Selected By liners "Mount Vernon and Funky Pretty should be on here")

I had the day off of work today because the snow is so bad...

If I remember correctly, "Sail On Sailor" is also on that compilation selected by Brian, which he apparently later stated in concert that he doesn't like that song at all.  :o

Brian - This is the one song that we do that I actually don't like. We're doing, what, like 35 songs tonight? And this is the only one I don't like. Should we play it?
Audience - (half-heartedly) Yes.
Brian - Ok, we'll play it.

(After the song)

Brian - See, the lyrics are just a bunch of bullshit! The melody and the music is good but the lyrics are just real negative.
Foskett - Change 'em!
Brian - I will!

I was at the show where this took place.

Please don't crucify me but I do find (whisper)Pet Sounds to be a tad overrated.  Don't get me wrong it's fantastic and I've bought it 3 times in different versions but it gets soooooo much praise (particularly from otherwise non BB fans)  that it tends to diminish their other accomplishments to a degree.  I mean, I can guarantee about 50% of causal BBs fans and non fans would sum up their entire output as "silly surf songs which were good fun for their time, then one masterpiece LP and then a load of mediocre crap 'cos the main guy went loco".  Does "PS" really overshadow "Today!!" that much?  Is it much better than "Sunflower"?  I personally don't think so.  I hope nobody thinks I'm pissing on hallowed ground here .  "Sloop John B" and "Wouldn't it be Nice" are the 2 songs that got me hooked on the Beach Boys and off that Nu - Metal crap I was listening to.  I would just like to see snobby music critics mention "Friends" , Sunflower" and the like in the same breath as they do PS.

When I hear the phrase "overrated Beach Boys' related songs" the first word that pops into my head is "Kokomo".

I would also add "Rock and Roll Music" and "Getcha Back" since they were top 40 hits that I do not believe deserved it.  There were songs on both albums that would have been better initial releases ("It's OK", "Just Once in My Life",  "It's Gettin' Late", "Where I Belong").

How that awful "Rock and Roll Music" cover ever made U.S top ten I'll never know.

And then Brian called Van and wrote "Live Let Live"?

Most of Wild Honey and Holland.

I Wanna Pick You Up, Hey Little Tomboy, Love Is A Woman, most of Still Cruisin' and SIP (though that's a given!), most of KTSA, half of MIU, the early surf instrumentals, Battle Hymn, Skatetown USA/California Beach...

I would say overrated would mean people have to rate them in the first place, which probably leaves out most of the '80s and '90s stuff.

The two I can think of are "Only With You" and "Let's Put Our Hearts Together."  I'd add "Steamboat" but I don't know that that many people are into that one in the first place.  It's funny, Dennis is probably my fave in the group, but he's also got the biggest snoozers for me.  "Only With You" and "Steamboat" to my ear just plod.  They sound to me like someone trying to find their way out of a closet full of winter coats, finally losing interest, and going to sleep on an old trunk.

I'll add to the sacrilege and say "Feel Flows." 

Yeah, Steamboat is an odd song, but lyrically, it is at home on Holland and it's one of my very fave Carl vocals, and then there's that awesome slide guitar break, and the overall production. Just the sound the whole thing achieves is remarkable...... But somehow it just about fails as a song. Can't exactly put my finger on why, but I love it as a production. As a song in general, though, I'd have to give it a solid C at best.

Also, even though I love love love Carl's vocal, I feel that Dennis should have sang it himself. Holland is my absolute favorite Beach Boys album, but I feel robbed in a way that Dennis doesn't sing his own songs! I also feel robbed that Carry Me Home doesn't close the album. But that's another topic in and of itself!

01) Help Me Rhonda
02) Barbara Ann
03) Wild Honey
04) Cotton Fields
05) I Can Hear Music
06) Add Some Music To Your Day
07) Cool Cool Water
08) Rock And Roll Music
09) It's OK
10) Come Go With Me
11) All of BB85
12) Kokomo

I'll stop there. My point is that almost all of those were singles and in my opinion are overshadowed by album tracks. Take an artist like Paul McCartney. Most of his singles throughout his solo career were rather weak but on every single one of his albums you can find at least one really good song.

Surfin'  
409  
Surfin' USA     (puh-lease!)
Shut Down
Be True to Your School    (spare me)
All Summer Long  (bad lyrics)
Fun Fun Fun
Girls on the Beach  (inane rewrite of Surfer Girl)
Help Me Ronda  (the Summer Days remake)
The Man With All The Toys
Barbara Ann
I'm Bugged at My Old Man
Add Some Music to Your Day  (feh)
The Nearest Faraway Place
Cool Cool Water  (Sunflower version)
Tears in the Morning  
Disney Girls  (not a Bruce fan, if you can tell)
It's OK
Had to Phone Ya
Solar System
Lady Lynda  (nah)
Sumahama  (would have been a better Mike Love solo project)
Here Comes the Night (Disco version, yuk)
Kokomo!   (can't stand it)

Wow. ??? I always thought they were some of Mike's best. Lots of fun, summer-y images there...

good list but I would replace ICHM with Student Demonstration Time . ICHM is probably one Carl's finest leads and a great song .

Is it due to the vocals or the tune itself?? I'll have much more respect for you if it's the latter  ;D

As for "All Summer Long," I can see, on the surface, why many say it's overrated as I didn't care for it for awhile. However, I saw American Graffiti on the big screen at a revival house and when that song hit at the end, I fell in love with it fully. It's now one of my very faves.

Here's a better list of my overrated:
Surfin' Safari (never stuck out to me at all as a great tune)
409 (recording and song)
Spirit Of America (bores me)
Ballad Of Ole Betsy (just never really connected to me)
In The Parkin' Lot (same)
any pre-1965 instrumental except maybe Surf Jam or Boogie Woodie
Don't Hurt My Little Sister
Most of Smiley Smile
Tears in the Morning (how this was a single I will never know. Not generall well known or rated highly, but it WAS a single!)
Here She Comes (anything good said about it is overrated to me. Funny that I love the Flame but they put two weak songs on CATP)
Only With You (great song, hate the Holland version), The Beaks Of Eagles, Big Sur (3/4 version), Leaving this Town
Any Beach Boys song aside from "Getcha Back," "Where I Belong," "Male Ego," "R+R to the Rescue," "Somewhere Near Japan" "Soul Searchin'" or "You're Still a Mystery" after Dennis died. Just a buncha crap and to call any of it good is stretching in my book.

Well that made me laugh quite a bit.  ;D

I'm actually quite a fan of Steamboat. Probably one of the few Holland songs I actually like!

I put "Steamboat" in the same boat (pun intended ;D) as "Marcella", "Wild Honey", and a couple of the other late 60's/early 70's songs, meaning it's slightly TOO SLOW. If it was just speeded up a little bit....

Indeed. Which is why I would say the likes of Rock and Roll Music, Kokomo, Student Demonstration Time etc. don't belong in this thread. Just because a couple of them were singles, doesn't mean that they are rated highly now.

The Spring album has been overrated by many imo as some, when they believed it was mostly Brian's work, called it a homespun masterpiece. It's quite a nice covers album but the Rovell girls don't come close to matching the originals of songs like Superstar and Forever.

Good point!

I honestly don't think anything post Pet Sounds can be accused of being overrated! Not even Smile! The Smile legend might be overrated, but not the content itself.

Perhaps us nerds here overrate some stuff, but where the  "rock n roll/pop fan - music critic" public, by and large is concerned: The Beach Boys still have along way to go until they can even be considered honestly-rated!

I like Disney Girls and Amusment Parks, and can tolerate Tears in the context of the album, but otherwise your list is spot on.

If anyone actually thinks anything else the Beach Boys have done even comes close to approaching Pet Sounds in its entirety, there is something wrong with that person. That album is nigh-perfect and there will never again be a time when every messy variable of life might line up again to produce such an album. No one is going to mention Sunflower or Wild Honey -- or even The Beach Boys Today! for that matter -- in the same breath as their masterpiece simply because there is not, it seems to me, a larger sense of unity among the album in terms of both music and lyrics to hold anything else they've done together in the same way. Pet Sounds was the product of a time and place and state of mind in the best possible senses of these terms and one that is not able to be replicated easily, if at all. It is telling, I think, that The Beatles's response to this album was one of technical prowess, but is lacking in that mercurial sense of emotional honesty imbued in the best Beach Boys songs (the exception would be "She's Going Home," I think, which is still not saying all that much). I do like The Beach Boys very much, but it's silly to think that they have more than one album that could be considered 'perfect.' I don't mean for this to sound as irate as it does, I'm putting off writing an essay that really must get done...

There are no overrated BBs songs.

You know, I honestly don't know!  The vocals are a factor for sure.  But it all just merges into a nightmare to me.  Though the chord progressions aren't horrible.

I used to hate "The Night was so Young" because of Carl's abysmal vocal performance (I once said something about him sounding like Peter Cetera gargling battery acid, or something equally as harsh!) , and I still hate it vocally, but the song itself grew on me ever since the day I did an instrumental hip-hop style cover of it...the melody itself is cool. Shame about the vocals, though.

I think Today is overrated. I bet that's gonna get me some hate. Well, hell...the songs generally accepted as being good are indeed very good. Except...I don't care for "In the Back of my Mind" much at all. I have always really hated it. Hearing it in stereo made me like it a little bit more, but to me it sounds like Brian was trying too hard. I don't like Don't Hurt my Little Sister one bit. To me, All Summer Long (the album)was much better.

Also overrated...

Don't Back Down - the "show 'em now who got GUTS~!" part was annoying to me. Brian's always been my favorite BB vocally, but I freaking despise his vocal part there. GUUUUUUUUUUTS~!

Little Deuce Coupe album- It's a "deuce" all right.

I actually rate "Surf's Up", "Holland", "Sunflower" and "Today!" all ahead of "Pet Sounds"  :o Does that mean there is something wrong with me then? While "Pet Sounds" may have more of a unity and overall flow that any other album they made has, it is for that same reason I think it loses a point or two in that many of their other releases had much more variation. I understand what you mean by it being a moment defining album both of the group and of the era. And it certainly was the water mark in the production skills of BW. It also has without a doubt been the one record from the group that has had the most impact over time for a number of reasons.  I just find I cannot play it over and over again without getting a little bored with it unlike many of the above mentioned albums which I never seem to tire from.  It's called personal preference.  Somewhere out there I'm sure there is somebody who would rather listen to "Summer in Paradise" than "Pet Sounds".

No. That person is not 'out there'. He/she's 'in there'. As in: a mental institution.

Its true!!  I think his initials are M.L. or something............

Not to mention this guy's top ten:
http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/faves.html (http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/faves.html)
I'm not making this up.

Each to their own I guess.  For what it's worth my top 10 would consist of

1) Surf's Up
2) Holland
3) Sunflower
4) Today!
5) Pet Sounds
6) Surfer Girl
7) 20/20
8) So Tough
9) Keepin' The Summer Alive
10) Wild Honey


Have to admit I had to think long and hard on the last 2.  May have killed my cred stone cold with choice number #9 but what the hell, I'll stand by my decision!!

Somehow I expect one of our members on this board to respond to this...  ::)

You contrarian, you.  :-D

A number of M.I.U. songs seem overrated by the fans...sure "Matchpoint" or "Woncha" may have decent Brian vocals, but they still bore me to tears. Just sayin...

I also don't care for this song. I do love the Love You album though, so it's almost become a song I love to hate.  ;D

I love it as it is... except... near the end, Brian sings a heartfelt '...let's put...', but the 'put' spirals down in pitch in an awkward manner... he really should have done another take. But then, with the exception of Good Time, it all was prolly done in one hasty take.

The one that stands out for me is smile vegetables - I always feel compelled to put it in smile mixes but if I'm honest, I really don't care for it that much, apart from the fade that sounds like it should belong with H&V. I much prefer Smiley vegetables.

lol...i'm sure you are right....  ;D

I like the song; it's the peformance that is lacking. And yet, at the very end, when Brian sings, "Together you and I", he nails it.

I'm thinking about the top 10 list and PET SOUNDS and I was musing that it's hard for us to admit there's a difference between something you like and something that's just substantively good.  It's kind of like people defining the center politically as wherever they happen to stand themselves, as opposed to a midpoint between two definable extremes.  Objectivity is a tough biotch, and it's definitely more so in today's environment.

So I would definitely say PET SOUNDS is, as objectively as you can be about something creative, the best Beach Boys album.  But it wouldn't be on top of my personal top 10.  I'm not even sure what mine would be...my tastes have changed so much.  I'm a pretty big Beach Boys fan but there was a time in my youth that -- I kid you not -- my favorite Beach Boys song was the disco version of "Here Comes The Night."  I'd never argue that it was one of their best tracks ever (though I think it's better than people give it credit for)...but I just liked it.  What can you do?

I'm trying to think of what I'd rank as my top 10 now.  LIGHT ALBUM and HOLLAND would still be close to the top, even though I objectively think, wow, there are a LOT of weak songs on those two albums.  But I just like the way they vibe and sound.  So again, what can you do?

But that is the great thing about being a BB fan. Everybody sees it totally different (even two guys named Eric).

I'm forcing myself to make a top 10 now:
01) Pet Sounds
02) Sunflower
03) Smiley Smile
04) Love You
05) So Tough
06) Surf's Up
07) In Concert
08) Holland
09) 20/20
10) LA Light Album

I suppose that sort of conjecture really deserves it's own thread but I was simply illustrating my point.

That would be my list exactly, subtracting LOVE YOU for KEEPING THE SUMMER ALIVE!

In Adam's words: "what can you do"?  :p

Oh, and replace SMILEY SMILE with SO TOUGH  :)

Interesting. KTSA does have a few good tracks and it is the only half of my two-fer that I'll play. Does anybody else have that issue with the later two-fers? I skip 15BO for Love You and skip MIU for LA. Curious to see how everybody else feels...

I always mean to skip past MIU, but SHE'S GOT RHYTHM always catches me off guard, and then I skip over toward PITTER PATTER,  but always seem to accidentally land on PEGGY SUE and it always makes me smile. Then I wonder what Carl's up to, so I move on over to SWEET SUNDAY LOVE, then to PITTER PATTER: don't Al and Mike sound cool on that? After that, I just HAVE to listen to MY DIANE which always kills me. But then it's followed by MATCHPOINT, which I suppose I dislike, but then Brian just sounds so cool on it! Soooooo, once those detours are navigated, (avoiding WINDS OF CHANGE at all costs) I settle into LA in it's ENTIERTY and smile the whole way!  ;D

1. Most of Dennis Wilson's solo stuff. His "later voice" is awful.
2. Cuddle Up
3. Big Sur (Holland version)
4. Wind Chimes (Smiley Smile version)-Tag is good. Everything else? Horrible.
5. A Day in the Life of a Tree-It's OK but nowhere near the opus some people make it out to be.

I think if I listed a top 10 in no particular order of quality, it would be, in reverse chronological order:

LIGHT ALBUM
IN CONCERT
HOLLAND
SURF'S UP
SUNFLOWER
20/20
WILD HONEY
PET SOUNDS
TODAY
SUMMER DAYS (AND SUMMER NIGHTS)

If PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE and SMILE were bonafide Beach Boys albums, they'd rank pretty high.  I probably listen to LOVE YOU and 15 BIG ONES more than anything lately, just because those are about the only two albums I haven't totally absorbed (or rejected, as is the case for the '90s stuff).

I actually like 15 Big Ones quite a bit! I dunno, it sounds like they're having fun, just playing songs and singing. Even though, I guess they were having the furthest thing from fun.  :-\

Totally agree with that statement.  I was trying to say something along those lines in my earlier post - could not find to right words to express myself clearly but you hit the nail on head.  HOWEVER my main gripe when I said PS was a tad overrated was that it's praise has overclouded other great works from the group to the point of obscurity.  When a group is more commonly known for an album they DIDN'T release as opposed to all the great ones they did then I think something is wrong.  Ask the average man on the street to name a BB's album and they will undoubtedly say "Pet Sounds".  Ask them to name 2 more and most will say "huh?".  Fair enough, most people are not Beach Boys nuts like we all are but still, The Beatles had good albums and weaker ones and yet even the most causal fan could probably name pretty much all of them.  Fleetwood Mac are generally known for one record yet the world at large are at least aware that they made other stuff.

P.S.  I consider LA Light very patchy but what songs on Holland do you consider weak?

From HOLLAND, I'd classify "Steamboat" as weak, and a lot of the rest of it mediocre, though as I think of it, a lot of that has to do with the kind of static nature of the tracks...Ricky's (and Brian's) drums don't really drive the songs except in a few places.  "Funky Pretty", "Leaving This Town", "Only With You," most of "California Saga," all have a certain amount going for them but there are pretty serious flaws in each of them if you take a step back:  "Funky" has godawful lyrics and hardly any backbeat, "Leaving This Town" goes on forever without a lot of dynamic change, "Only With You" is a pretty song but it meanders forever and has less interesting changes than Dennis usually provides; "California Saga" is awkward in the first third, pretentious in the second, and hugely derivative in the third.  There's only two truly unassailable tracks on HOLLAND:  "Sail On Sailor" and "The Trader" (and perhaps "California").

If you look at L.A. (LIGHT), I'd argue that most of the songs on there actually stand up.  There may not be the level of inspiration and quirkiness on HOLLAND, but other than HCTN-disco there's not much consensus on which songs are the bad ones...even "Lady Lynda" and "Sumahama" have a lot of defenders.  L.A. has three stone classics in "Good Timin'", "Angel Come Home" and "Baby Blue", and I'd personally add "Love Surrounds Me" to that.

Don't get me wrong...I love both albums, but HOLLAND has a very particular vibe that, if I had to generalize, helps the album as a whole but hurts the individual songs.

The thing with Holland I find is that I can't just dip into it for the odd track like I can for so many BBs stuff.  When it goes on I have to hear pretty much all of it. I think out of all the 'Boys catalogue that and PS are the most 'album' releases they ever did in that many of the tracks work better as a collective whole than by themselves.
I find LA to be rather weak mainly 'cos it's for all intents missing 3 of the guys. Love him or loathe him (and plenty do both) a BBs record with only one Mike Love lead vocal doesn't feel like a BB's record. Mike and Al are to LA what Dennis and Carl were to M.I.U - mere guests on one or two songs.  I find Carl's songs here to be very lacking.  His efforts on KTSA are much better.  Denny's two are much better with "Baby Blue" standing out as a classic. Good Timin' is nice; nothing more. Lady Lynda is very underrated if a tad cheesy.  Think I'll avoid talking about the disco track, Doh!! Too late!!

I always thought this song could have had about two minutes shorter. One verse too many and the ending seems to go on too long. Great, great song, but I wouldn't say it's perfect - that's just me.

"Sail on Sailor", I wouldn't call perfect, either. DASH TAHT'S JUST ME!!!!

Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you. Pet Sounds is absolutely brilliant, but Pet Sounds, a greatest hits album, and the very occasional BWPS is absolutely not the end all be all of the Beach Boys. Far from it.

Well, not PERFECT...I wouldn't go THAT far.  I hear you on "Trader" though I personally like the long ending....though I will tell you having covered it, it is murder to keep it all straight.

BTW I was listening closely to "Sailor" on headphones for a Beach Boys cover gig and I marveled at how subtle and powerful the production is on that one.  The groove and the keyboards and the drums are just so....

I agree that Holland, although it does have some excellent songs, still adds up to being more than a sum of its parts.

LA doesn't quite imo. I think that the disco track completely unbalances the album and Shortenin' Bread doesn't add that much as a closer. If those 2 tracks had been cut and It's a Beautiful Day included as the second song and Daybreak as the final number then I think it would hang together much better.

Agree. "Shortenin' Bread" is so mismatched for this mature, adult, "light" Beach Boys' album. Again, of all the Brian Wilson songs "in the can", they chose this one?

I wouldn't, however, cut "Here Comes The Night" entirely. While it was a bit too "late" to hit the disco craze, and it was bandwagon jumping, I think it's a vital track. How about if they would've put the single version on the album, or at least cut the 11 minute version in half.

In a rare SJS-and-Luther-agree moment, well, I agree. HCTN is really quality, despite its reputation. The problem for me is its inclusion in that ridiculous format (length). But the single version? sh*t, sure. Maybe not on the front end of the craze, but who cares? Crazes suck. It's cool. Really well done.

Yeah, I think the 11-minute version was a mistake in retrospect, and I suspect it had a lot to do with a dearth of new songs (and the songs they had being so short).  The single version is pretty friggin' kickass, though...one of the best Carl rock vocals ever.  I have really nice memories of playing Stratego to that song when I was about 13.  My gaming partner always insisted on having the long HCTN on...he thought it helped him play better!

"Shortenin' Bread" doesn't bother me but I do think that's a valid point about it not fitting in, and "It's a Beautiful Day" is pretty great, though I believe it was cut after L.A.  "California Feeling" SHOULD have worked, but I have heard the L.A. version and I see why they left it off.  It just sits there (and the 1978 version with Brian's vocal is a case study in amused disinterest).  I'm not familiar with "Daybreak," can someone enlighten me on this one?

Daybreak, like Sumahama, was part of Mike's unreleased First Love album and is widely considered to be the best song I think it's fair to say.

'Fess up time all you Beach Boys completists! Who here would buy "First Love" and "Country Love" if they ever did come out? Hands up now!  ;)

First Love, yes.
Country Love, no.

I actually think that First Love is better than some BB albums from the period.

hand up

My complaint about HCTN is that it is the Beach Boys singing to a typical disco arrangement.  When the Stones did a disco song they did a Stones disco song.

They could have put their voices to "Fly Robin Fly" or any of a hundred other disco songs and the results would have been the same 

The Beach Boys did a paint by numbers approach.  That song did its best to ruin an otherwise fine album.

I think that's a valid point too, but I hear it differently.  I like the fact that it's an EDGY disco track.  It really is...think about the Celebration album or some of the really cheesy, bland-o disco that was around in the late '70s.  The HCTN track has so much grit and chutzpah to it...the sax solo, the weird chimp effect, Carl's vocal, the nasty-ass clavinet, the square-wavey Oberheim, the way they really worked that spooky chord progression in the chorus.  Man, now I want to go listen to it again.

OK, I'll say it:  I STILL love the disco HCTN.  I think it rules.  Sue me.  Of course, I put a disco track on my last album, and people hated on that too.  Shoulda known!

wow, i've never seen anyone discuss the HCTN (disco version) like that before....

what about the disco medley that was floating around then, yuck!

my point EXACTLY.

Now I feel weird about pretty much slamming all kinds of Beach Boys songs!! Why should we do it when there are countless music fans out there who will slam and bash anything Beach Boys that isn't Pet Sounds or Smile?

Do Beatles fans do this too?

How about we segue this discussion into "Overrated Beatles Songs!!!!

Ok, my top 5!

1. When I'm Sixty Four
2. Doctor Robert
3. Got To Get You Into My Life
4. Honey Pie
5. The Word

I really can't stand any of those songs.

I could name quite a few songs by The Beatles I think are overrated. The thing about those guys though, is you'd have to separate the musicial contribution versus the cultural contribution. Musically, I would say they were very overrated. But as far as cultural impact, I don't think they can really be overstated. No one else were as big as the Beatles, at least that I'm personally aware of.

I absolutely agree. But I wasn't even alive in the 60's, therefore The Beatles cultural impact, while something I would be an idiot to not acknowlege, will ALWAYS be seperate from their musical impact.

Another difference between the Beach Boys and the Beatles is that the Beatles did not have any cringe worthy (as opposed to overrated) songs while the Beach Boys had oodles of them.  To be fair, all of the Beach Boys cringe worthy songs were after 1975, long after the Beatles broke up.

I dunno, I mean, I know you're right, but sometimes "cringeworthy" can be a sign of life in some way! My main problem (and I AM a fan) with The Beatles, is that, I think once they quit as a live band, their recordings could sometimes sound like they were created in a vaccum. They didn't kick like The Kinks did or The Who and they lacked vibe, as opposed to the Stones who's recordings simply oozed it. AND the Beach Boys, who recordings held a lot of vibe and mystery as well. Also, the Beach Boys really did have a lot of soul for a bunch of white guys. As Maurice Gibb said, "they were incredible teachers on feel"

I've been at retro "60's" dance clubs where the DJ puts on a Beatles song and everyone has to take a second to adjust to the stiff beat and usually most of them would wander off to the bar. I know this is a slightly silly thing to be bringing up but it does matter. Then again, no one plays Beach Boys at a dance club anywhere (well, I'm sure Kokomo gets played at Club Med beachside rave-ups) so, I dunno quite what my point even is.

Another difference between the Beach Boys and the Beatles is that the Beatles did not have any cringe worthy (as opposed to overrated) songs while the Beach Boys had oodles of them.
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I would like to cite "Run For Your Life". Terrible. Absolutely terrible. Makes me want to vomit. Of course, plenty of people feel differently.  ;D

I'd list "I Me Mine" as well (and George is my favorite Beatle) as positively cringe-inducing

"Till There Was You" makes me wince every time

"Honey Pie"!!! I'm sorry, but Paul's cutesy, old-timey, genre exercises make me nauseous.

"The Long And Winding Road" If I were at the cheap hotel lounge where this deserves to have been written/conceived/performed: I'd toss a bottle at the stage and then vomit!

"Maxwell's Silver Hammer" skip it every time! I feel embarassed if I actually listen to it.

Pretty much most of Phil Spector's production bombast on Let It Be is ghastly. And hey, The Beatles released it that way, so it counts.

This thread is about the Beach Boys. I'm all for talking about overrated Beatles tracks, it'd make for an interesting conversation, but keep it out of heeah plz.


A quick listen to some of the Beatles' solo material shows that they very well could have had some cringe worthy material. Some, definitely not all, but it's there.

And the thread is STILL about The Beach Boys, Beatle bashing and all!

I'm just trying to further evolve the misconception that The Beach Boys wrote and released all this cringe-inducing crap and The Beatles: none!

I've always thought Sunflower is an overrated album altough there are obviously some excellent tracks on it. I think I'd like it more if Good Time and Back Home were included. For a while I loved the entire Surf's Up album but now my views on it have changed and Long Promised Road, Surf's Up and Till I Die are the only real standout tracks for me. It was hearing the extended mix of Till I Die and Fourth of July for the first time that changed how I looked at Surf's Up. It could have been a much stronger album with the inclusion of Fourth of July and a longer version of Till I Die. I think the extended mix of Till I Die could be improved, I don't like how the vocals just suddenly jump in but the extended intro is sublime.

I would like to cite "Run For Your Life". Terrible. Absolutely terrible. Makes me want to vomit. Of course, plenty of people feel differently.  ;D
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How does "Run for Your Life" compare to "Hey Little Tomboy", "Kona Coast", "California Calling", "Solar System",  (Many of the songs on "Love You" while appreciated by the afficinados are nothing short of bizarre to the regualr fan), "Crack at Your Love", "Wontcha Come Out Tonight", "I Wanna Pick You Up" . . . . . . . (The imagery on a lot of the tunes from 77 through 80 would creep out Gary Pucket).

I actually like "Run for Your Life" and am amused by the counterpoint to John's opening song on "Rubber Soul", "Norwegien Wood" - He starts off by cheating and ends by threatening to kill his girl if she cheats.


My apologies to those who are offended by my Beatles reference.

Maybe the part about threatening to kill a girl if she's out with another guy is..... not cute or funny, therefore a bit cringe-worthy!

At least Hey Little Tomboy makes no mention of murder!

Though this line from Roller Skating Child: "We'll make sweet lovein till the sun goes down. We'll even do MORE when you're mamma's not around" raises goosbumps of terror every time! MORE!!!!!!???? You just had sex with a young girl WITH her mamma presumably around! What the hell else will you be doing when she's NOT around?? Honestly, I don't care to know the answer!

And don;t forget the "one little inch at a time" line in "Honkin Down the Highway" :o

Just for the record, I would listen to 'Hey Little Tom Boy' anytime instead of 'Run For Your Life'. I actually don't mind HLTB at all, but hey, personal preference. ;D

It should be pointed out that Lennon was channeling a Johnny Cash/"murder ballad" vibe for "Run For Your Life", but still keeping it in the expected upbeat "you done me wrong" venacular the Beatles had been working with for the previous couple of years. Had they done a more straight-forward "murder ballad" version, it would not seem so disturbing...or unique, perhaps.

I agree that Surf's Up suffers from 4th Of July's abscence - it's an absolutely magestic song and is in my top 5 Beach Boys songs, ditto for Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again. It's absolutely amazing to me that neither song was released on Surf's Up or any subsequent album  considering some of the outright dreck they allowed to be released in the 70s/80s.

Anyways, overrated songs? I don't much care for Warmth Of The Sun, it simply doesn't move me. Also I have no real affection for Marcella either and prefer its two progenitors, All Dressed Up For School and I Just Got My Pay.

Ok, so The Beach Boys were channeling a "molestation ballad" vibe for Roller Skating Child and setting it to the expected Beach Boys upbeat, fun, fun, fun, type style! How unique, right?

Hey Little Tomboy and Kokomo.

More to come.  :P

I think that most the BB's cringeworthy songs were before 75. Before Pet Sounds even.

Chug a Lug? Horrendous and embarrassing. Ten Little Indians? The sound of the entire first album is limp. Spirit of America and all those other songs that take 'car loving' a bit too seriously. The line 'Craig Breedlove was his name' makes me want to throw the CD across the room.

Even tracks like Amusement Parks USA i'd consider a guilty pleasure because I like it if no one else is around, but in company i get uncomfortable at the prospect of having to defend the idea that this band is better than the Beatles.

The cover of Times They Are A-Changin is ruined by the boys' immaturity. One thing about the name of the band, "Boys" is right.

I disagree. Nothing before 1975 really makes me cringe because that early stuff works in the context of when it was recorded. Actually Chug A Lug is kind of fun.

I think Chug a Lug gets a pass since it was the first album - innocent fun, innocent songwriting.  ;D

Chug-A-Lug is awesome. Anyone is welcome to disagree, but I love it.

ANYTHING AT ALL FROM LOVE YOU. This album gets wildly over-rated by fans (and Brian himself). Presumably coz its nice that, following 15 Crap Ones (where it'd seemed Brian had completely lost it), it was nice to discover Brian could actually still write a decent tune. And coming between two of the worst albums of their career, that probably helped its cause too (in much the same way the patchy LA Light Album seems far better than it largely is due to the relief felt that it wasn't another MIU).
 But really, Love You - yeh, The Night Was So Young is very nice, but not a classic; Honkin' Down The HIghway is a rockin' tune; Johnny Carson has a crazy, original melody, and wacky lyrics - but the whole album sounds dated, its consistently badly sung and produced, and the lyrics are almost all awful - no, not kooky and enduring, weird and disturbing. This is the guy who wrote Til I Die. And now here he is singing about snogging roller skating children and rhyming groovy with movie. When Dennis croons about patting some apparent infant and/or girlfriend's butt - is that anything other than extremely bizarre? And the fact that he's singing this over a fairly catchy tune doesn't help matters...
 Maybe its just me, but i don't find this album cute and enduring and so on, as many other BB fans seem too. I find it sad and depressing. I don't find Brian writing in this infantile way appealing at all - the occasional good tune only enthasising what had been lost by this stage. The album is certainly worse than anything pre-15 Big Ones ('novelty' albums such as Stack o Tracks and Party aside).

 So there you go - overrated BB songs? Here's an album's worth.

Awwww, c'mon! How can you go wrong with such heartwarming imagery as a 35 year old Mike Love cooing "We'll do it holding hands. It's so cold I go, Brrrr" to some barely pubescent girl at the local rollarskating rink?

Despite starting this thread and therefore welcoming the controversial opinions of my fellow boardmembers, i must disagree, Mr Tom/Stuart

Part of the albums charm is that it's extremely bizarre, childlike and slightly unsettling at times. And the synth/incredible basic drumming/good songcraft lurking underneath the croaky voices and mad production is part of the charm.

I also like the mental image of Brian wandering into the studio each day and laying down the tracks to 'Love You' by himself too.

Hmmm, I dunno. I want to feel that way about Love You, but i just find it depressing... I certainly never ever use anything from Love You when i'm introducing the lesser known BB's work to friends, and when i have they've been like What's happened here...?? I know there's the whole charming image of Brian at work on Love You, but in terms of just the music, its a real big big step backwards from almost everything that'd come before.

Forget about your friends for a moment and turn up the opening triplet of "Let Us Go On This Way"/"Roller Skating Child"/"Mona" real loud so you can actually feel the synth bass and punching snare drums. If you're a smoker, don't forget to have at least one cigarette each passing song. Always remember these songs came from the same guy who created "Mt. Vernon and Fairway", "Funky Pretty", "You're So Good To Me", and "Busy Doin' Nothin'".

I think Love You could be a pretty good LP had some of the lyrics been better.  It's hard to tap your toe to a song who's lyrics make you uncomfortable.

(Suddenly I'm jumping albums and thinking about "My Diane")

I think Love You is half great and half garbage.

Great~
Let us go on this way
Rollerskating Child
Good Time (should have re-recorded parts to make it fit with production of rest of Love You)
Honkin' down the highway
Ding Dang!
The night was so young
I bet he's nice (actually this one's subline)
Aeroplane

Garbage ~  
All the rest esp Solar system, I wanna pick you up, Love is a woman (worst BB vocal ever!!).

Why the others didn't take the good half and then compose a few tunes between the 4 of them I'll never know. 15BO had already proved having Brian write and produce everything again was a mistake.

Good song, but I wouldn't say it's even the best on the album.


Hr rm, don't know about this. Name some other albums from around this time that even sound remotely similar.


I never understood these claims. Both totally innocent songs that people take too literally. He isn't talking about fucking a literal child that roller skates, "child" is a term of endearment that I've heard used several times outside of this. He's not talking about pervertedly touching an infant's ass. Songs like these, "Hey Little Tomboy" etc. come from a totally innocent place. And when I say innocent, I mean innocent and harmless, not innocent as in a person doesn't know better.

I don't wanna use the lame, "It's not dirty, you just have a dirty mind," argument, but...


I don't know, though. It was coming from a sincere place, I don't think his mind had degenerated and that's why the lyrics are the way they are. They're very, very Brian, I think. Just as Brian as, say, "Til I Die", just a very different side.

To each his own, though. A few of these claims just didn't sit right with me, though.

When Brian was healthy in the 60s though, he had always been moving away from childish themes. Even when youth was discussed on the likes of When I Grow Up, it was done in a mature way. Love You certainly does show that Brian wasn't in a good place imo. It also shows that the band weren't in a good place either. Whatever Brian's intentions, the lyrics to Roller Skating Child and I Wanna Pick You Up (plus Lazy Lizzie and Hey Little Tomboy for that matter) are abysmal and if the group had had any confidence left then there's no way they would have agreed to sing some of those words.

Finally someone who agrees with me though I would add that I much prefer Party and Stack. I like Good Time-that's from Brian's prime. I like I'll Bet He's Nice and The Night Was So Young, Ding Dang is fun for what it is, but I can't take the rest. I hold the 1961-74 recordings far above anything that came after (not counting Dennis' solo stuff which was up to old standards).

I kind of lump "Love You" and the songs recorded for "Smiley Smile" together - Moments of brilliance surrounded by gobs of WTF.

"Love You's" greatest failure are the lyrics and the background and harmony vocals.  The tunes are great.  The arrangements and production are different and while I am not a fan of synth music there is someting to be said for trying something new.

Oh f*** you soulless, humorless people. There's nothing quite like hearing Carl Wilson scream, "TIME TO TURN INTO A GIIIIIIIIIRL".

(Kidding.)

"LAST NIGHT I WENT OUT DISCO DANCIN"


I love the idea of a 36 year old, huge bearded Brian Wilson going out to some disco club, checkin out some girl and then being bummed that she goes off with some other guy. But the music was so good, he still had a great time, and he really hopes he gets to see her again the next time he's disco dancing at the club.

So innocent and sweet actually. Most people would write songs about fighting the guy in the alley!

Which Dennis did:  "Friday Night."

So, from a time/place/recording date perspective, can we conclude that while Dennis was out having his "Friday Night" Brian was at home watching "Johny Carson"?

Yeh, i see some of your points. I don't hate Love You, it just baffles me though when BB fans constantly sing its praises. For the record, i do indeed have a very dirty mind, but that doesn't change the fact that the lyrics to Roller skating child and I wanna pick you up are creepy, whether its unintentinal creepiness or not.
And i agree 100% with the post where the guy said I like the songs but the lyrics get in the way. It doesn't matter how loudly i turn the volume up on Mona, those lyrics - aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!!
(I don't get the Smiley Smile/Love You comparison though - the music on Smiley (my all time 2nd favourite BB album) is light years ahead of Love You.)

Smiley also has great if sometimes off beat vocals

Mona! God!  Basically the same 20 seconds repeated over and over again for nearly 4 minutes. Still I would rather listen to it 20 times over then be subjected to the slop that is Solar System ever again!  Awful singing, lyrics a gifted 5 year old could top, clunky production... oh did I say bad lyrics? Didn't Landy try to claim a co-write on this stinker?

I always thought Solar System could of been kind of decent with Brian 60's/early 70's falsetto.

Yeah it would have been awesome with different singing... Plus different lyrics, different tempo, different production, different melody etc etc... ;D

hahaha  :lol, I find it quirky

Student Demonstration Time-what were they thinking?


I saw quite a few songs I really like, Let The Wind Blow, Sound of Free, Wonderful, San Miguel, Full Sail, Good Timin..I like their school/surfing/car songs, but LOVE the later stuff :)

The comparison to Smiley is from a fan's standpoint is quite simple.

Upon listening to both I can see fans saying WTF.  Both albums set the Beach Boys back as a creative entity - they recovered from 'Smiley' but never from 'Love You'.

"Student Demonstration Time-what were they thinking?"


I actually dig Student Demonstration Time. Corny as it may be, it kinda rocks in a good way. Mike sounds good, as do the harmonies. I also love how a song about student demonstrations/Kent State ect, comes on the heels of such a nostalgic fantasy peice as Disney Girls. Sort of like the narrarator of that song wakes up to realize, yeah, he's still in the turbulent, drugged up, Vietnam era! SDT really does fit in on Surfs Up and helps the album's conceptual flow (something I rambled and babbled about in an older post/older thread).

Does anyone know who's playing the rather awesome (while still awesomely raw) lead guitar on the track?

I think Dennis is playing the in-the-pocket drums. He did mention "Riot" being the last song he drummed on before destroying his hand. Sounds like someone overdubbed the high-hat though!

Correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe it was our own C. Wilson blasting out those rocking guitar licks! I'm baffled why so many hate SDT. It's in my bottom 3 on the "Surfs Up" LP but I think it serves it's purpose in that it gives the record a good kick up the arse after "Disney Girls" before hitting the listener with the dark introspective beauty of side 2.

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The only Beach Boys song I can honestly call overrated is "The Little Girl I Once Knew". Sure, the production is nice and the chorus is catchy, but I hate the chord progression of the verses, as well as Mike's asides, and those pauses are unbearable.

I can't be the only one who thinks this:
God Only Knows

I often see it listed as the personal favorite of many, or the high point of Pet Sounds. I'm not crazy about it, the high points of Pet Sounds to me are I Just Wasn't Made For These Times and LGAFA.

Have you listened closely to the bass line? Sometimes I'm not in a GOK mood at all but if it's on the bass line hypnotizes me. There is something about it, it is just so perfect. And in the single version (mono) the way the strings blend in with the rest of the track - just incredible to hear.

*shakes head* this thread...

I Write the Songs was number 1? Really?

the night was so young...has a beautiful guitar riff :)

Dennis' "Make it Good". This is the only one that comes to mind right now.

1. Sloop John B (Pretty But Idk How It Became So Big...They Released This As A Single B4 WIBN...Smh)
2. Barbara Ann (Repetitive Nonsense)
3. Lady Lynda ( Over-Produced Trash...Al Jardine Sining About His Wife...Who The F*** Cares?)
4. Time To Get Alone (Never Understood Why So Many BB Fans Love This Song)
5. Good Timin (That Little Ding Sound When The Verses Start Makes Me Cringe,Yikes)
6. Cotton Fields (Country Musik At It's Worst...There's Nothing Beach Boys About This)
7. Friends (Waltz? Yikes)
8. Catch a Wave (What Do You People See In This? Really?)
9.  Disney Girls (Grandpa Music)
10. Dont Back Down (Corny)
11. Rock and Roll To The Rescue (Who Talked Them Into This Tune? Landy? Lol)
12. Somewhere Near Japan (Mike You're Killing Me!)
13. A Day in The Life Of a Tree (The Title...Thats It)
14. Tears In the Morning (Bruce Never Write Anything Like This Again Please)
15. Long Promised Road (WTF)

All These Songs Are Over-Rated & Horrible!(Except Sloop John B)

...

Newguy's list reads like it could almost make a very decent mix CD but where's "Belles of Paris"?

Oh hi, old thread o' mine! Safe to say, my initial post reads a little mental, apart from I Know There's An Answer -still my least favourite on Pet Sounds by a considerable margin.

But this


is true insanity.  :lol

The best is the the WTF @ "Long Promised Road". Okay, you don't like waltzes, whatever, but I'm truly baffled by this one.

Also, wat @ "A Day In The Life Of A Tree" description, albeit less baffling than "Long Promised Road".

Just My Personal Taste. Name 3 Songs On My List That You Guys Dont Think Belongs There.

Several are blasphemous, most are questionable.

By the way, the "who the f*** cares?" comment about Al writing about his wife made me giggle, too. "You Still Believe In Me", Brian expressing himself in song about his wife, who the f*** cares?

I think the 10 out of your 15 that hypehat brought up say it all. I might even throw in Good Timin' to make it an 11/15

It's Brian...He's A Bit More Important Than Al. Al Is My Least Fav. In The Group.

First of all - who else thinks "Lookin' At Tomorrow" probably plays as your soul ascends to heaven after death?

Anyway, as far as overrated goes, I'd nominate all the non-Brian songs on Sunflower. I don't connect with Dennis' songwriting during this period. Don't get me wrong, Pacific Ocean Blue is a great album. But "Got To Know the Woman"? You guys really think that song could compare to anything on Pet Sounds? I say that because a lot fans seem to think Sunflower is right up there with Pet Sounds.

I just don't hear it. "Got To Know the Woman" isn't a bad song, for example, but it sounds very contrived. It sounds like music for hairy chested males that don't like to button the top buttons on their shirts, and are a little too fond of gold necklaces. And what about lines like "now I'm but a child who art erect in humility" in "It's About Time"? I thought Jack Reiley wasn't hired yet! The song has some cool moments, but it comes off as white men imitating Sly Stone. Something about the song seems to be holding back. It's like Carl, can't you put a little more anguish in those yells?

"Forever" is great, I'll admit that. "Slip On Through" is good, too - but there's something about Mike Love's sleazy vocal basslines I find unsettling/unenjoyable.  It's like the Lovester is trying to seduce me, and I'm having none of that.

Also, letting Bruce have two songs is always a bad idea. Again - are there really people who think Bruce's limp machismo can rival anything on Pet Sounds? The songs have some nice moments, but the moods and themes overstay their welcomes.

I don't know if anyone has ever said "EVERYTHING ON SUNFLOWER IS TE HBEST AS GOOD AS TEH BEST SONG ON PET SOUNDS X 10". As it is, I love Sunflower and while it's impossible for me to pick solid favorites, I'd say it's about on par with Pet Sounds - maybe a bit below. So I love the album, but I'd never say "Got To Know The Woman" is the best track on there or one I'd throw out there as representative of why Sunflower is as good as Pet Sounds. One of the lesser tracks on the album, I'd say.

In other words, if you were trying to tell someone Pet Sounds was a brilliant, unparalleled album, would you point them in the direction of "Sloop John B" or "I'm Waiting For The Day" first off? Any album I love has that song or two that stand above the rest along with that song or two that, while great, might not be the absolute best work on the album.

i agree with the guy ur replying to. there's no song on sunflower that can compare to the weakest song on pet sounds. but i must admit sunflower is an amazing album. i think theres only one song on there that i don't like tooo much.

See guys?  Newguy is smart.  Sunflower is a good album, but I'd say it's overrated. "Our Sweet Love" is a great track, but it comes off as "God Only Knows-Lite" if you compare it to the Pet Sounds songs.

"Tears In The Morning" > Any song on Pet Sounds?

I guess that's fair. Still, like I was saying before, those few really special tracks on the album (those being, imo, "This Whole World", "Forever", and "All I Wanna Do"), are as good as or maybe better than most of Pet Sounds, to me.

I'll also say that Sunflower beats the pants off of Pet Sounds in the variation department, all while not sounding confused or disjointed the majority of the time.

Again, nobody is saying the lesser material on Sunflower is better than all of Pet Sounds. Saying "Sunflower is a better album than Pet Sounds" does not necessarily mean you think every single song on the album is better than every single song on Pet Sounds.

pet sounds is always gonna be compared 2 every album cuz it's so great. Sunflower haves sum amazing songs
(this whle world,deirdre,all i wanna do,forever,our sweet love,at my window,cool cool water)
the difference between sunflower and pet sounds..is sunflower has different moods throughout the album..and pet sounds has the same mood throughout the album...collectively it's one beautiful piece of art. and sunflower is kind of patchy lol

thanks alot :). i couldnt compare "our sweet love" to anything on pet sounds because every song on pet sounds is 10 times better than "our sweet love" ..don't get me wrong it's a good song but every song on pet sounds is great.

Newguy, I appreciate the fresh perspective.  While I don't always agree with you--and I think you hurt your credibility a lot by reveling in your inability to write coherently--I think your opinions are often more level-headed than those of some of the longtime posters.

One of the downsides to a fan message board is that it tends to attract people who think that virtually everything the group did is great.  Just check out the recent thread on supposedly "flawless" albums.  If there is such thing as a flawless album, 99.999% of music fans would say that no Beach Boys album other than Pet Sounds belongs on the list.  Don't let the other 0.001% (all of whom apparently are on this board) persuade you otherwise.

thanks :) i'm used to writing like my peers and this is a new crowd that i'm barely a part of.
Yes i understand what you're saying, I've seen some of them say that surf's up and holland are flawless. It shocks me and they try 2 make it seem like pet sounds is'nt as good as everyone makes it seems. It's almost impossible to name one thing wrong with that album. One of my personal favorites is wild honey but i'm not going to go around giving it extra praise and saying that it's better than pet sounds or smile and boost it up 2 be something that its not.
Some try 2 squeeze a million dollars out a penny, i'm beach boys fan 2 but i like being realistic as well.

The majority is always right.

I guess a song that has no life in it whatsoever would be appropriate for that.

Sunflower is hardly overrated by anyone. If anything it's still frustratingly underappreciated by both the general public and rock critics alike, the latter of which still seem to concentrate on Pet Sounds and Smile almost exclusively when it comes to the "genius of BW" and the BB as a group. Personally I could do without "Got to Know the Woman", "It's About Time" and "Tears in the Morning" but on the other hand I don't even think of these songs as downright bad, they're just not up to the high standards of "This Whole World" or "Cool Cool Water", that's all.

While Sunflower as a whole may not be quite as good as Pet Sounds personally I probably enjoy listening to it just as much.

Yep.  Reality is good.  And Pet Sounds ... I'm not a religious guy, but if I were, I would swear that Brian was touching the hand of God when he made that.  Listening to Pet Sounds after just about anything else is like switching from black-and-white to color.

Couldn't have said it any better than that. Amen. ;D
Ok what are your personal top 3 favorite bb albums?

WTF  :angry to each it's own..

Yeah, perish the thought of beautiful women being forced into the mind while listening to a wonderful piece of music. Terrible, terrible thing.

Carl's falsetto on that one just blows my fucking mind every time I listen to it, particularly in the first chorus that isn't the opening one. Without fail, every listen, there are either goosebumps, I get slightly choked up, or I get that "rush" that comes with listening to something really great and fitting for that particular time, if not all three. Gosh Darn, MU'FUCKA.

I don't think runners was trying to insult you, and Ian just likes to be a dick on this board.

But the arrangement of this is so good. That moog has never been better used than in these songs and TNWSY is not an exception! Carl was trying to sound like Dennis I think. Because for a long time I thought it was Dennis singing it, and then it sounded fine. The lyrics are very typical Brian of this period but it without doubt a very well made song surely?

that's the best post pet sounds song they did.

you know what I don't like about you? you state your opinions as fact.

Naw, sryz ;( was expressing awe at Carl's vocal. No insults ^_^

Slip On Through is an absolutely barn-storming track, one of the greatest, most energetic album openers of all time, and one of their most UNDER-rated songs!

See, the problem with a thread like this is: over-rated by whom? If you mean over-rated by the public in general than clearly not, as the vast majority of the tracks that've been mentioned so far date from 1966 onwards and therefore it's material that the casual music fan is utterly unaware of, so how can it be over-rated? If however you mean over-rated by people on this board, well, i don't really know what anyone else's specific tastes are here beside my own, so how do i know who rates what how, without having to trawl through old threads and album reviews?
So I'd now say Slip On Through is definately under-rated because i think it's a masterpiece and yet here's diehard BB fans slagging it off. Love You i think is over-praised on this board, however it's still under-rated in general as most casual music fans have never even heard of it.

Why can't a guy write a nice song about appreciating root beer? Root beer kicks ass. People write songs about consuming alcohol/weed/drugs/whatever and it's considered poetic or clever. Why? I'd like to see these same "poetic" people write a decent song about root beer, damn it.

Well said!

I'm sure fans on fan sites for other bands don't spend there entire time talking about what they don't like about the bands in question... How about we start a thread: 'Why the Beach Boys are the greatest band of all-time and one of the most inventive, imaginative and exciting mainstream bands of all time'?

I wasn't being a dick, man. And even if I did enjoy being one, people like you would be the reason.

Fans of other groups are very quick to glorify ANYTHING that group ever did. That's why they hail them as 'Gods' of rock, which is imo total bullsh*t.

This board is very down to earth, it seems most people here are very open to making jokes and criticising this group. Tearing it apart and disecting the groups history and their individual personalities (which from the bands persepctive must be quite interesting/scary).

I think the atmosphere of this board is superb and dynamic, people have lots of different opinions on this very creative group which is as brilliant musically as it is brilliantly flawed by the people in it. Great show to watch.

You are of course utterly correct. Was in a foul, defensive mood when i posted the above following a discussion that became an argument with a poor-quality-music-loving friend.

Up until a few weeks ago I always considered 'The Warmth Of The Sun' to be an overrated song as I had listened to it dozens of times without it making much of an impact on me, then one night after consuming a 'jazz fag' it's brilliance finally hit me and I sat there in pure blissfull joy as the wonderul arrangement and harmonies swept me away. True story.

Love You is fucking great. Brian Wilson could sh*t out something more creative than all of us. Personally, I've never been into "Trader", "Rock N Roll Music" (I love the original Berry and The Beatles versions though) and "Heaven".

Trader I can at least listen to but it seems to drag on a bit without much going on. RNRM is the pinnacle of Mike being some sloppy Mick Jagger clusterfuck but, I gotta admit I love the background vocals. Even though Heaven is on Carl's 1981 solo album The BB's played it live in the early 80's. It has some moments but overall it's manufactured 80's crap.

Welcome to the internet. You must be new here. ^_^

Catch A Wave
Little Deuce Coupe
Fun, Fun, Fun
Girls On The Beach
Busy Doin' Nothin'
Do It Again
I Went To Sleep
Time To Get Alone
Celebrate The News
This Whole World
Cool, Cool Water
4th Of July
Steamboat
Rock And Roll Music
It's OK
Had To Phone Ya
Come Go At Me
Sumahama (Not exactly overrated, but IMHO if anyone says this crap is remotely good, it's overrated as hell)
San Miguel
Livin' With A Heartache
Goin' On
When Girls Get Together
Santa Ana Winds
Male Ego
Kokomo
Forever (The inexplicably popular John Stamos version)

Was just about to post my list of overrated BBs songs, only to see I've already done it. Completely forgot about this thread & writing such a flat-out nonsense:

Seriously, what have images got to do with liking or disliking a song? 1st, & 2ndly, "Girls on the Beach" is by no means overrated as it didn't chart, is not one of their more popular numbers & never the concert staple, going by Eric's site.

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Kokofrickenmo! >:( I'm glad Brian stayed away from that atrocity!

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You can't be serious! Without the overlined ones that would be a very awesome  BB compilation.  
For me the overrated ones are propably:

Surfin' U.S.A.
California Girls
Barbara Ann
'Til I Die (yes, I said it. I love the song, but I just think that it's better on paper. Lyrics are the best thing Brian ever wrote. But the studio version is missing edge and emotion and it could have been much better IMO.)

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What the heck are you talking about?

I think "Good Timin'" is pretty overrated, it sounds Beach-Boys-by-numbers to me and a half-baked attempt at that. It's one of those songs that never gets going and ends before you figure it will begin to get interesting.

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Calling a song overrated really doesn't have to do with it being perfect nor do I think the poster was saying that he hated it. I think he was just saying that it's an overrated song by the main listening public just like Barbara Ann and Fun, Fun, Fun. Of the three, I prefer SUSA, but as the three are often plays as encores at Beach Boys/solo/related shows, I just assume hear a solo minor hit or Still Cruisin' or Rock and Roll to the Rescue or even It's OK.