The Smiley Smile Message Board

Any rumors about how good or bad this might be?  Seems like the bar will be fairly high for this one among music critics.

As long as it isn't the vocal equivalent of Gettin' In Over My Head, we'll be in good shape.

Think I'm on safe ground here in saying, no way will it be that bad - all the signs are that Brian is really engaged by this project. I'm cautiously expecting good, possibly great, things.

I think we'll be in for a surprise with this album. It will have some fun stuff.

But couldn't we at least get the Orange Crate Art outtake of Rhapsody In Blue as a bonus? :)

Two hours of Ding Dang tops.  :P

That. And the orchestral version of Shortnin' Bread.

1) I haven't heard it, but I'm sure the OCA outtake is not the whole Rhapsody, but just the slow part, the one that Brian plays sometimes on the piano.

2) Reportedly, we'll get an a cappella Rhapsody here--- likely that very same section.

3) If the latter-day custom of having Brian release "concept" albums, we may end up having the a cappella Rhapsody interspersed throught the album.

A cappella Rhapsody interspersed sounds good. But let's hope he doesn't go for the "Silent Night" approach.

Oooh dit dit
Oooh dit dit

:)

Complete with: 'Hi This Is Phil Spector Wishing All Of You A Wonderful Christmas On Behalf Of All The Great Artists...'

You mean this? An adventurous spoken word thing?

Now that you mention it another spoken over track would be worse. No I meant the in my ears dreadful version of "Silent Night" from WIRWFC. I mean, a cappella and Gershwin and Brian Wilson all sounds good, but I thought "Silent Night", a cappella and Brian Wilson also sounded like a good thing until I heard it.

whatever he releases, I hope we don't get another shot of the bonus tracks ripoffs.
Buy it at Best Buy, get two extra cuts! 
Go to I-Tunes now and get Brian singing YOUR name as background to Rhapsody!!!!

1 - I know it was some 25 years ago now, but what I heard Brian play in 1985 was the whole thing...

2 - I heard that too...

3 - very much doubt that - the 'concept' this time is "Brian Wilson plays Gershwin tunes", not "Brian Wilson constructs a Gershwin suite".

For what it's worth, Silent Night wasn't recorded for What I Really Want For Christmas - it was originally done as a simple a cappella "treat" (management's words) for the fans who frequented Brian's site back in 2001. And the reaction from the "fans" on that cesspool of a forum was rather negative, even hostile - at one point I believe Melinda came on the forum to shut the fans up. And when Brian put On Christmas Day on the site back in 2000, a similar reaction ensued, as in 2002, when Brian put up an informal version of White Christmas that he recorded with Styx, with whom he had been working in the studio, providing backing vocals for their then-new LP.

It'll be interesting to hear that unfinished Gershwin song (or songs?) that Brian was supposed to finish or present, at least, in a nicely polished form. He talked about coming up with parts for one unfinished song that left him unable to understand "where it was coming from", which I took as a promising sign. Here Brian is, a senior citizen, and I'm still hoping for one more musical miracle out of him.

Brian and Scott make magic together, I'm setting the bar high for this album.

I want a release date!!

This year.

People might disagree but I don't see why "On Christmas Day" was given a negative reception...I think it's groovy.

That's probably only since you blew your mind...

I don't see why any of Brian's holiday "gifts" on his website were given negative receptions - it's almost like the fans wanted music and vocals of a Pet Sounds-like quality.

Wait a minute...

That's what we argue about endlessly on these forums!

Seriously though, Brian spent a combined total of about 5 hours recording all of his seasonal "gifts". The problem is that so many Brianistas are unfamiliar with the term "taking it at face value".

Your signature hurts my eyes.

Far out...

Well, I found out afterwards that "Silent Night" was what it is - a simple a cappella "treat", but my thought on reading the track list for WIRWFC and seeing "SN" on there as a bonus track gave me high expectations - I hoped for a full blown, band featured version. I'm thankful for whatever material BW puts up on his site and have no expectations on it.

I stopped expecting things from Brian in 1967. And I wasn't born until 1987.

The way to "expect things from Brian" is really Love You.  That was the key, for me.  After Imagination, I had expected a solid, mature Brian Wilson -- that one that gave us Pet Sounds, Let Him Run Wild, etc.  I thought he was "regulated" so to speak...and now and forever writing and recording music from that perspective.  So naturally GIOMH confused me -- since I found it odd and sloppy.  And then BWP SMiLE -- clearly Brian was all over the place creatively, reaching, returning...now a Gershwin album?

But it took me remembering "Love You-Brian" for me to get it.  That odd, no-one-can-predict-Brian that emerged at that time.  Solar System, Johnny Carson, Adult Child, etc. -- far from a "Top 40 Brian."  This was who he is now -- or at least a major piece of him.  And with that....GIOMH makes beautiful sense.  Silent Night -- is great!  And when something more "disciplined" emerges, like BWPS, TLOS and now Gershwin-album...I say excellent -- this'll be interesting.

I can't imagine what people honestly expect from him anymore.  He's an odd, original.  "Expectations" are futile and miss the point.  I don't dislike any of the stuff he does...I just wonder why he did it that way and what's next, and think "hmm, that's a different take."  To not like GIOMH or Silent Night is perhaps a bi-product of having expectations and demands.  I can understand if you just don't like them...but not if you are a person inclined to like Love You and an album called SMiLE that has tracks about Vegatables and Barnyards.  Frankly, I'd welcome a new album like GIOMH.  Perhaps more than another TLOS and more than a Gershwin-album.  I want the original!

But does not having expectations on Brian equal liking everything that he has done musically? I must be able to have no expectations whatsoever on a record and still be able to dislike it when I hear it, right? Being disappointed, however, would be another thing. Without expectations you can't be disappointed, but can still dislike something.

And I can't follow the logic in not being able to like Smile or Love You and at the same time dislike GIOMH or "Silent Night". The former two touches me - in very different ways! - but the other two don't. Simple as that. Because of expectations? Not to me. Sure, there are parallels between Love You and GIOMH but where Love You, to me, has the sound of an enthustiastic, quirky, childlike, relatively young man, GIOMH sounds like it was made by an old man who's only partially interested in the whole deal and whose quirkiness never shines through. I also want the original, but I think TLOS is more original than GIOMH.

His newish subtitle looks like "I steal from the rich and give to the poor Global Moderator" :lol

For me, it's the same guy...same creative source.  So that's my logic...but I can understand liking one over the other -- Love You, as you said, has an enthusiastic exuberance.  Love You also excels in having a more unified appeal (save Good Time).  But it's the same page or section in his journal at that time.  GIOMH is pages torn from different journals, so to speak.

But, I just cannot imagine disliking GIOMH...not if you're inclined to like albums like Love You.  It's Brian 15-25 years later...that's all.  I do wish it were more unified and not pieces of albums -- albums that should have been released in context at their time.

Excellent description.

Yes it's Brian 15-25 years later, (arguably) the same person who made Love You, and as I said, there's similarities. But while both LY and GIOMH both sound rushed, LY, to me, is good rushed while GIOMH only is rushed. And while, for example, "Roller Skating Child" is quirky and somewhat bizarre, "You've Touched Me" is just bland. I just can't like everything Brian has done just because I do like Love You.

Do you like "Just Say No" as well? (Serious question!)  :)

I don't think the Brian Wilson of 1976 is the same Brian Wilson of 2004, and I don't see many similarities either. Check out the Mike Douglas Show interview, conducted just a few months before Love You was recorded, and then check Brian's interviews in 2004.

The Brian Wilson in late 1976 was writing a lot of new songs, playing piano and bass in concert, was somewhat thoughtful in interviews, and was committed to The Beach Boys. Brian Wilson in 2004/today is, well, not doing those things.

SJS, I know what you mean. Something with Brian was definitely lost during the second Landy spell. What I meant with similarities was between LY and GIOMH. The rushed, clunky sound (not the same clunky though; once again, LY is good clunky :))... Hm, maybe that's all the similarities I can think of.

I completely understand what you all are saying.  

Here's my secret.  I imagine "1977 Brian and the Boys" performing it.  I can hear which parts Dennis would do and which parts Carl would take.  And Mike (a la "Airplane") in there with Al takin' a lead or two.  Nicotine laced, mooged-up 1977 Beach Boys.

Less polish and more beards.  Minimal production -- maximum cocaine.  Seriously.  Try it with TLOS too.  You'll love these albums!

I always thought "Good Kind of Love" would've fit perfectly on Love You with the right production. Put a moog bass on it and get that clunky Love You piano sound on there and you would think it was '77.

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Just listening to "You've Touched Me" off of GIOMH, one of the aforementioned "bland" tracks off that record.  The fade...."touch me....touch me ...just touch me...Touch me my Girl!"  Totally here that funk on Love You.

Great stuff

Again, we're on the same wavelength. I have a secret soft spot for "You've Touched Me". Yes, the performance is sloppy and the production could have been better in a few places, but it's a good Brian song. It's like a latter day "Friends". While it's not as good as that song from a writing perspective, saying a song it isn't as good as "Friends" isn't an insult in my book. The vocal arrangement of "Friends" would be hard for anyone to top.

Ok, that I can do. And understand. I practice the "imagination listening" technique myself - like picturing Carl singing "Live Let Live" for instance. Yes, that approach heightens the experience of GIOMH... (Mike singing "The Waltz"?) but it's also a bittersweet experience imagining all the could have been's.

Ah but that's comparing one 1976 interview with 2004. There were some 2004 (and later) interviews where Brian is on good form, very open and communicitave.

Check out the VH1 Classic Special, he's clearly having fun being interviewed...isn't scared to criticise Mike Love and is joking with the interviewer and crew. Brian on a good day of course. Catch him on a bad day and you'll get little more than grunts.

That's manic depression for you.

This may sound horribly melodramatic but I sense something inside Brian died during the second Landy era.  Nowadays he just seems like a little kid trapped inside an old man's body, perfectly willing to be led by the hand into whatever musical ventre his management decrees.  I hope the Gershwin project is different in that the idea to do it came from Brian himself and it is something he truly wants to do.  If so that would be great ,if not it's BWPS all over again.  I am looking forward to it big time.

It seems like Brian was high on something in the Douglas interview. He was talking about the evils of cocaine, but he seemed like he had some in his system! And we all know he's on mood-regulating drugs now, so that affects his ability to give interviews... but not all the time. Some of his modern interviews are good. And in a lot of the 70s footage of Brian in concert, he seems...not too happy. I don't think Brian is altogether happy now, but nor do I think he'd necessarily be better off if he could go back in time to 1976.

I'm listening to "the Waltz" right now....I can hear them sharing the lead.  Dennis on "she had a body you'd kill for..."  And the "whoop doo-bee doop" vocals, I can totally hear that gruff vocal blend, a la "Sheeee's going to sleeeeep" from Love You's "I Wanna Pick You Up."

Yeah, it's very bittersweet, I hear ya.   :'(

I used to feel that way too, but not anymore.  I think the "something died" in Brian long before the Landy era.  There's pre-SMiLE and post SMiLE Brian.  Pre-SMiLE is brilliant and driven...Post-SMiLE is brilliant and scared.  He's certainly morphed a bit over the years.  Emerging in the late 70s as the infamous "performing Teddy-bear" Brian, then into skinny fitness-Brian...but it's still the "brilliant and scared" Post-SMiLE Brian.

What seems to have changed with Brian since the 70s is this -- he's not left to wallow with his demons.  He's "cared for."  So he's not writing about himself as much.  Which stinks a little, suffering artist less-so.  I like songs about flickin' cigarette butts in the toilet, and telling himself he's not allowed to laugh...cuz that'll mean something if he does.   :lol  But I like songs about Saturday morning, smelling barbecue blow all over town too.

I know only his nearest and dearest can know for sure, but does anyone on the board think Brian still possesses the ability to look after himself or do they think if left to his own devices would he hit early 80's rock bottom again?

No idea how he would handle himself for a great length of time, but it's not like he's constantly monitored; he often dines alone or visits places on his own. Certainly back in '06, when Melinda was away from home, he would show up at Scott Bennett's apartment when the desire struck him to work on music.

My feeling is that Brian is capable of more than we give him credit for. When it suits.  :)

I am saying this, more thinking out loud than purposely criticizing Brian or judging him, but...

I think Brian ALWAYS needed someone to "monitor" him. Was he EVER a responsible person when it came to finances, his diet, his hygiene (post 1969), his marriage, his work habits (post 1964), and, most importantly, his abuse of drugs. From reading several books on Brian/The Beach Boys, it appears that Brian always had people doing things for him (because he wasn't capable?), and, when left TO HIS OWN DEVICES, he took drugs (for whatever reason you want to attach).

It's interesting that Brian NEEDED a conservator or a wife in his later life to keep him functioning appropriately. But, I wonder if Marilyn didn't marry him, or if Brian remained single, would've he needed a conservator when he was 24 years old?

Although I haven't thought about it before, that does surprise me when I read about it. In a good way.

And that says a lot about the general picture of Brian these days, when fans (or at least one fan, me) gets pleasantly surprised reading that a grown man actually goes places on his own and eats dinner on his own sometimes. Gets you (or at least, again, me) thinking.

Nice call. I'd say that there is a huge difference between a guy in his 30s, traumatized by child abuse, slowly nearing middle age, and under heavy pressure to deliver, and a 67-year old man, freed from bad psychological/pharmacological treatment, and being pretty much in a position where he can do what he wants to do and does not really have to fear judgment on his achievements any more. This makes it possible that he can enjoy a good fat hamburger every now and then (after all, a bit of a belly is fine at that age), and a beer, without relapsing into having to 'score' stuff. Perhaps he has the sensibility now that others, lucky to be mentally more stable in their prime, always had: one beer is fine, three or four will make me sleep not that well and will make me feel worse in the early morning.

Sort of contentment usually reserved for the elderly, to summarize. Should I have to choose between another SMiLE and a nervous Brian, and no SMiLE-like work but a stable and happy Brian, I would unconditionally opt for the latter. As would all sensible people.

I think the one positive aspect we can all agree on is he is  more comfortable 'being' "Brian Wilson".  He no longer wants to hide from the world it seems. And yes if Brian never recorded another note in his life but could have peace of mind I wouldn't complain.  He's already gave us so much.  Anything now is strictly a bonus.

My thoughts exactly. I watched with glee the interview on Grammy Night, he was so at ease, and Al in his vicinity... light years away from the guy under Landy's control, acting so stiff and tense because of bad overmedication and God knows what else.

Hey, if someone was quite willing to cook for me, run my errands, do my laundry, keep my finances in order and so on, hell, I wouldn't be dumb enough to say "no thanks".

You know when they first started to "hang out" together all of us were wondering about a reunion and there were enough rumourse out there. But it's been a while since we last heard such a rumour and that (as well as the Grammy-video) make me think that Brian and Al really are just....hanging out. No pressure, not for a special project or promotion. Just as friends. That would be cool because it'd mean that something that must've disturbed Brian for at least 12 years (his relationship with the Beach Boys) is mending and he therefor (and Al probably too) feels alot better about his past.... Just my opinion of course

Al's not family -- so all of that drama is out of the way. And he's an old high school buddy. I think he and Brian just enjoy one another as cordial acquaintances. I don't think them touring together worked out -- for whatever reason (I don't know how much Brian respects Al as a musician, exactly) -- but as two old guys that went through it all together, they have a bond. Sometimes it's surprising who you end up staying in touch with.

In 2004 there was a BBC documentary "The Beach boys - Wouldn't It Be Nice" where Al stated that he wasn't in touch with Brian and that he couldn't even make a phone call to his old high school buddy due to Brian's people not letting him.

That struck me as odd, because Bruce was clearly in touch with Brian. Bruce gave Brian a lot of encouragement after he got hold of an 'unofficial' SMiLE DVD, and when Bruce had his heart surgery Brian was one of the first to call him and ask how he was doing.

Anyway...good to see Brian and Al seem to be able to hang out without any pressure. Maybe Brian could stand Mike's company for more than 5 minutes if Mike didn't keep asking Brian to tour with him...

First, I would take most things that Al says in interviews with a grain of salt. Some of the strangest things come out of Al when he is being interviewed.

Second, Mike hasn't been asking Brian to tour with him. In the interviews that I have read, Mike simply says that he would love to work with Brian again, especially songwriting, and that a place is always open for Brian if he (Brian) chooses to re-join The Beach Boys.

We have to clear this up because it's rarely stated--Brian gave Mike a demo in 2006 (I would say May-June would be an approximation) telling him he wouldn't mind Mike putting lyrics to it. Mike said he didn't want to work that way and he wanted to start from scratch. Brian said "like Do it Again?" and Mike said "just like Do it Again." And Brian, as far as I know, never got back to him...moving onto greener pastures.

While I think it's easy to dismiss Mike's action in that case as 'blowing his chance', I think that was perfectly reasonable. Working by passing things around is a pretty big difference, and, in my opinion,  probably felt like working through a filter again (i.e. like Landy).

Will the two get together and write the way they did "Do It Again"? Only time will tell... :)

Only three or four? I might as well drink water! And yes, I'm mentally stable.  :-\

If Brian's trying to avoid conflict, then it makes sense that he doesn't want to work in the same room with Mike. I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, but Brian might be worried about bringing up old tensions.

I think... I think it would be, if not nice, then at least polite to let Brian find out if he could be in the same room as Mike for a while, as opposed to telling him he won't like it. Granted it's some years down the trail, but they got along fine on the Capitol rooftop, and more importantly in the office beforehand.

Back in 2003-2005 timeframe Brian said, on more than one occasion, that he couldn't be around Mike for more than a few minutes because of Mike's ego and how Mike always tried to pressure him into doing some dates with the Beach Boys.

Publically Mike would say something like 'I have an offer, why doesn't Brian join us on tour for say 20 dates. It would be wonderful'...who knows how it was put and how Brian took it in private?

Since then things do seem to have got a little better.

When he's feeling positive about life in general or  specific project, he can put almost as much effort and creativity into it as he did 45 yeas ago. He also clearly can look after himself.

But remember Brian suffers from depression. It is not an illness that can be treated with totally predictable results. Some days he'll be on form, fun, talkative, fun, creative, hard-working and maybe even talk to fans who bump into him at a restaurant. Other days he won't even want to get out of bed.

That's depression folks. As I keep saying, if you've ever lived with someone who suffers from it...you know how it is...even with expert medical/psychiatric help it cannot be cured. It can be treated, and the sufferer will still have good and bad days.

Wise words.