The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hey all, I'm on this site almost daily but haven't posted since before the release of BWPS.  I decided to finally re-register in hopes some of you could answer some of my questions.  First up: some concert instrument duties, specifically around the time of Blondie and Ricky’s tenure with the group.

To start, the Preiss book is complimentary of the bass lines on In Concert, courtesy of Ed Carter and Carl.  With Bruce gone by that point and the sound of the guitar solo on “Help Me Rhonda”, I take it Ed plays lead guitar on that one with Carl on bass but beyond that I have no idea why Carl would need to play bass, especially since Blondie (who plays it in the YNAMOHTSA video, which leads one to think he did the same when they played it live) was there as well. 

So did Ed play guitar (or something else) on any other songs from that period? Did Carl play bass on anything else from that period of was Preiss just referring to the bass lines of Ed throughout the album and Carl’s on just the one track?

Speaking of Carl, the Endless Harmony video shows him playing electric piano on “Sail On Sailor”.  Was this normal procedure for the period?  Who played the lead lines?  Blondie?  Al?  Ed?  And as for Carl’s piano playing, is that him (on piano) on “Long Promised Road”?  If so, who played the guitar solo live? 

And finally (for now), let’s talk about some guitar.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that Blondie played the slide part on “California”.  Is that correct?  If so, is that him on “Marcella” as well?  I ask because it sounds like him singing during the chorus (specifically on the Carnegie Hall recording), which while it’s not impossible to do while playing, it is a bit unlikely. 

Having not been able to see them live at the time, and with next to no live footage available, I have even more questions beyond these but I think it’s enough to spark some conversation (any new word on the Carnegie Hall DVD?) and hopefully provide me with some enlightenment.  I look forward to seeing what info you scholars have to offer.

They switched instrument duties around, depending on the song. Carl played piano on some songs (mostly his own), lead guitar on others, etc.


I remember seeing Ricky Fataar playing the pedal guitar with the slide. He discusses that very thing on Billy Hinsche's 1974 DVD.

I've always called the Preiss quote into question.  Though it's established that Carl occasionally played bass live in the '60s ("Lei'd In Hawaii" was one example), and in the studio (15 BIG ONES), I don't buy that he was playing bass on IN CONCERT.  As you say, there's no reason for him to do so.  Blondie Chaplin did play bass early on...he may have done some of the bass on IN CONCERT.  Keep in mind Billy Hinsche was still around playing keyboards and lead guitar.

As for keyboards, Carl very likely played on "Sail On Sailor" and "Leaving This Town".  The only instance of Al Jardine playing lead guitar in the BBs that I'm aware of is the lead for "Long Promised Road" (which isn't on IN CONCERT).  I am pretty certain that the high arpeggio line that briefly sticks out on "Heroes and Villains" is Al, but I can't pick him out anywhere else on the record.

My suspicion, from having listened closely to IN CONCERT, is the bulk of the main rhythm guitar is played by Carl, and he's also doing the lead on several of the oldies.  His first position style is pretty easy to pick out, so if you listen to those parts and work your way through the other tracks, he's pretty easy to tease out on a lot of the other songs.

Wow!!!! So, is that lead on LPR on the record AL?

These kind of questions have intrigued me for a very long time...to the point where (as others here will attest) I've become nearly obsessive about it!

I'm pretty sure it's Blondie playing the lead on "Rhonda" in '73.  Carl's playing the boogie-style rhythm guitar (in "drop-D" tuning), as he can be seen doing in the footage from Crystal Palace Bowl the year before.  Which would leave Eddie on bass.  I've often wondered about the Preiss comment...could be he meant to write "Blondie Chaplin"...or it could be he was privy to knowledge of Carl overdubbing some studio bass parts onto the live tracks during post-production.  The one song Carl is known to have played bass on live in the early '70s is "Vegatables".

Carl played electric piano live on "Sail On Sailor", "The Trader", "Long Promised Road", "Feel Flows", "Surf's Up", and possibly others.  Al played the guitar solo on "LPR", doubled at different times by Billy Hinsche and probably Blondie.  Blondie played lead guitar live on "Sailor".

The steel guitar on the studio-recorded version of "Marcella" was played by Tony Martin.  Red Rhodes played it on "Hold On Dear Brother".  After the session for that last-named song, Ricky picked it up and played it live on "Marcella", "California Saga", and later "We Got Love" (after Blondie left).  The '73 "In Concert" verson of "We Got Love" features Blondie on regular electric slide, and Ricky on rhythm guitar (I think).  I'm not positive, but I'll bet Ricky also played the pedal steel on the studio versions of "Cal Saga" and "Got Love".

FYI, check out my website:
www.beachboysarchives.com

Nope...all of the instruments on the studio version of "LPR" were played by Carl.

Ok, here's the million dollar question: On IN CONCERT, what songs does Dennis play "electric piano" on? Any prominent/noticable parts and on what songs??

I remember Dennis  kicking off "California Saga" on Grand Piano here in Atlanta in 73 0r 74 ! Yelling for everybody to get up!

Which was also the signal for us fans to move down to the front of the stage.  ;D

Often wondered if that was him!  Glad to know.  When Dennis moved back to drums, Billy would "kick it off" on rhythm guitar.  On the "In Concert" album gatefold inner sleeve, you can see Denny playing the Moog, which he probably did on these versions of "Sloop", "You Still Believe In Me", and "Funky Pretty".  He definitely played electric piano live on "Heroes And Villians" from '71 all the way into the '80s.

I believe you, but I remember a quote where he said he HATED playing "California Saga" live, specifically the "scorched meat" part.

Which is why they hardly ever (if indeed ever) played "Part Two" of that suite.  Astroray was probably (and I was definitely) referring to "Part Three", which they played pretty consistently from '73 to '78.  I've got live tapes (like Nassau Coliseum 6/74) where a nice little piano vamp starts the song...glad to know it was Dennis!

"The Trader" - duh.  That of course is Carl too.  Wasn't certain about "Funky Pretty."  He had a real interesting way of approaching keyboards.  He played a lot of crushed chords (small intervals in the right hand) and kind of played the bass with a sort of karate chop movement on his left hand.

Al played the solo for LPR live, but it is almost certainly Carl on the record.

C-Man, any other spots for Al's guitar on IN CONCERT besides the "Heroes and Villains" one I mentioned (I'm pretty certain the reason the part sticks out is he turned up his volume knob at that point and overshot the mark)?  "Sloop John B" occurred to me later.  He definitely played a key counterpoint guitar line on that song in the '60s and was still playing it in the '00s, so I'm guessing you can hear him on that one.  I've never been able to tease out all the guitars on "Marcella," but he could be one of the three you hear (though my money is on Billy Hinsche).  Other than that, can't think of anyplace...

Kinda sorta related: but, I love the little part on Billy's DVD where Al is, I guess, soundchecking and runs through some of the awesome Heroes And Villians chords for the camera! Very very cool moment!!!!

Al played some lead guitar during the 1997 tour when Carl was going through treatment for his cancer. Sometimes with the Endless Summer Band he'll play a lead or two.

Honestly, he's not a BAD lead guitarist, but his folksinger nature immediately pigeonholes him as a rhythm player. And that's fine. He was and is great at it.

Yep, there's some great footage on that dvd.
Here's a picture of Ricky playing pedal steel guitar


(http://i46.tinypic.com/2j4tw9l.jpg)


Also notice that someone's doing a fine job holding up that mike ...  ;D

Hi Adam - I just remembered that Carl also used to play electric piano on the live versions of "Wild Honey" and "Wonderful" in the early '70s.  I wonder who played it on "We Got Love"...I love that great little bluesy tag on the end of the "In Concert" version.  As for Al's guitar, you are absolutely correct about the chimey arpeggio on the chorus of "H&V"...Al can be seen playing that on the 12-string in the '71 Central Park concert footage.  I seem to recall that on the new '74 DVD, Billy is seen playing piano on "Marcella", and they were down to two guitars by then, so I doubt he played guitar on the '73 version, or else he would've in '74 as well.  Al has traditionally played the rhythmic solo break on "Don't Worry Baby", so perhaps he's doing that on the '73 "In Concert" rendition as well.  Other than that, it is indeed hard to pick him out.  But...if there's two guitars audible on "The Trader", one would be him (with the other being Blondie), 'cause Carl's on electric piano and Billy's on acoustic piano, with Ed on bass.  I listened to the whole album on my Polk audio studio speakers awhile back (what a treat!  a great listening experience), and I think I "teased out" Al's guitar on "You Still Believe In Me" as well.

Since we're talking "who played what" on In Concert 1973, I've got a question about the masterpiece version of "Let The Wind Blow"?  
Who played the Grand Piano?  Who played the killer Lead Guitar solo in the middle?
And who may have been playing the Hammond Organ with that great Leslie Cabinet "whir" that can be hauntingly heard underneath?
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrjMXrf6C7Y          CD
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0WshQmpH68    Vinyl

Big Bri

Hey...I've got a set of old Polk Audio speakers...I love them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRbBPhodF4Q

This video of Wild Honey from London shows Carl on electric piano, Blondie on guitar and Ed Carter on bass until the last few seconds where Ed Carter is playing the guitar solo.

What happened to Ed Carter when JWG became the bass player - did he just become the third guiterist or did he leave the band for a while?

The liner notes to the album list the supporting mucisians as Ed Carter, Billy Hinsche, Robert Kenyatta, Mike Kowalski and Carli Munoz.  No instruments are listed but I would guess that they were as follows:

Ed Carter - bass and guitar (3rd Guitar when Carl played keys)
Billy Hinsche - piano, guitar and bass (3rd guitar when Carl played keys or bass when Ed played 3rd guitar)
Robert Kenyatta - percussion
Mike Kowalski - drums and percussion (Drums when Rickey played guitar or pedal steel)
Carli Munoz - Keyboards

I always found it interesting that they never included a vibraphone in their stage show especially since it was a key element of so many of their songs.

Those were pre-digital days! I wouldn't want to be the guy hauling a vibraphone from stage to stage!  ;D

Would it be any more difficult to haul around than a piano?

No kidding...I think Carl MAY be on electric piano for that one...and I think there's also Clavinet (masquareding as harpsichord) on there...that's possibly Dennis (he can be seen playing the Clav on the '74 DVD during "The Trader"...the second time, toward the end).  I'm pretty sure Carli Munoz is playing the electric piano on the '73 "Caroline No".   The bluesy guitar solo on "LTWB" is Blondie (I've got a tape where Mike namechecks him at the end of the song for lead guitar). 

I think the last few seconds of the live "WH" that show Eddie on lead guitar is footage "flown in " from another part of that show...man, it'd be great to have that entire show on video!  I think you're pretty much right on with your credits above, except I don't think Billy was playing bass at that point (he WAS the primary bass player on an entire tour, in August '72).  Remember, Blondie was still playing quite a bit of bass at that point. 

And...whaddya mean, "no vibraphone"??  Can't you hear it on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "Don't Worry Baby"?  They definitley had a set of vibes onstage in '72 and maybe '73 (and glockenspiel in '71/'72).   :)

Most touring groups don't actually bring their own personal piano on tour; instead a piano is either provided by the venue or rented. It's possible that the Beach Boys toured with their own piano, but as far I know, most groups don't generally do that. Either way, I don't know whether the band traveled with pianos or vibraphones, but I still wouldn't want to be the guy with that job!  :)

I wonder who's job it was to keep Mike and Dennis away from each other backstage (and onstage) during them mid-years!

Not to be a downer, but it must have been a complicated situation.

In the late '70s/early '80s, they toured with a white grand piano that later ended up at Al Jardine's studio.

Ah yes, it matched Brian's 1981 never changing white shirt.

Would that be the same piano that Al plays a snippet of Sloop John B on in Endless Harmony?

Probably!

When I toured with Counting Crows, I marveled that they hauled around a grand piano from gig to gig.  Then their road manager beckoned me over to show me a little secret...it was a fake!  They hauled around the shell of a grand piano with no keyboard or strings inside, then seated a weighted digital piano inside the assembly where the keyboard would go.  Could have knocked me over with a feather.  But it's a pretty common practice...now that I know what to look for I see it all the time on videos.

Back in those days, man, keyboards were murder.  Not just pianos, but Wurlitzers were very hazard prone and difficult to tune.  I wasn't around then, but I was playing in the '80s and a lot of that stuff was still in use because we couldn't afford samplers and such....you could buy a Wurli for $100 then!

What do you have to look for in videos? I'd love to know. ;D

Well, for instance, if you're watching Elton John and he plays "Daniel" and suddenly you hear an electric piano patch instead of a real piano...that's a pretty good clue that he's playing a digital piano and not a real piano.

I've seen Elton do that song at least twice, and I always wondered how the grand piano had an electric sound ;D

McCartney does the same thing with his pschycedelic upright piano (and probably his grand, too, but if you ever see him playing the upright from an angle that shows his hands, you'll see it's a digital keyboard sitting inside an upright shell).

I've heard that Jools Hollands grand is the same as well.....

On "In Concert", who played the amazing organ solo on "Leaving This Town"?

Carli Munoz

I would've swore the liner notes said Kenyatta played woodwinds. Can't forget about the Dragon Bros., either!!

The liner notes on the original album don't specifiy who played what...if it's the CD reissue you're referring to, they quoted an erroneous credit assignment from Brad Elliott's 1981 book "Surf's Up! The Beach Boys On Record".  I think Brad didn't recognize the name Robert Kenyatta, and asssumed it was he who played the flute on "Caroline no" and the beginning of "Sloop John B." (it was really Ricky).  Robert Kenyatta is most definitely a percussionist.

I stand corrected. I didn't know Ricky could play flute!

And didn't Dennis play drums during the encores sometimes?

speakin of Jumpin' Jack, that should have been an encore tune for longer than it was...like later 70's concerts....Mike's vocals are killer

"Jumpin Jack Flash Vs I Get Around any day day now"  ;D

Wow!  Thanks for all the info so far.

When I read the first post, I thought "well who in the world was playing drums?!?"  Seems I totally forgot Mike K being listed as one of the supportting players. 

I'm sure I'll have more questions once I process everything but my internet connection is kinda spotty right now and I wanted to thank everyone now, while I could.

Until next time, does anyone know if Ricky played the Sloop intro on flute and then switched to drums for the rest or if that's Mike K on drums on that one?  Or for that matter, can anyone list the songs with Mike on drums from In Concert and/or the Carnegie Hall recordings?

Thanks again.  You guys (and gals) are a fantastic source of information!

The '72-72 lineup:

Mike Love - lead vocals
Carl Wilson - lead guitar, vocals
Blondie Chaplin - bass, vocals
Al Jardine - guitar, vocals
Dennis Wilson - keyboards, vocals
Ricky Fataar - keyboards, drums, vocals
Brian Wilson - keyboards, bass, vocals (only in the studio)

The '73-74 lineup: By the end of '74 Both Fatarr and Chaplin had left the band

Mike Love - lead vocals
Carl Wilson - lead guitar, vocals
Al Jardine - guitar, vocals
Dennis Wilson - keyboards, vocals
Ricky Fataar - keyboards, drums, vocals
Brian Wilson - no longer involved in the studio

The '74-'76 lineup:

Mike Love - lead vocals
Carl Wilson - lead guitar, vocals
Al Jardine - guitar, vocals
Brian Wilson - keyboards, bass, vocals (also on stage)
Dennis Wilson - keyboards, vocals, drums
Bobby Figueroa - drums

The '76-'78 lineup:

Mike Love - lead vocals
Carl Wilson - lead guitar, vocals
Al Jardine - guitar, vocals
Bobby Figueroa - drums
Brian Wilson - bass, keyboards, vocals (also on stage)
Dennis Wilson - keyboards, vocals, drums

The '78-'83 lineup:

Mike Love - lead vocals
Carl Wilson - lead guitar, vocals
Al Jardine - guitar, vocals
Bruce Johnston - bass, keyboards, vocals
Bobby Figueroa - drums
Brian Wilson - bass, keyboards, vocals (also on stage)
Dennis Wilson - keyboards, vocals, drums


Though not corporate members of The Beach Boys, supporting players have featured many notable musicians over the years. Keyboard players Daryl Dragon & Toni Tennille, later famous as the pop duo The Captain & Tennille, toured with the band. Carli Muñoz, who had been playing keyboards with the band since 1970, in 1971 replaced Daryl Dragon as keyboard player until 1979. Mike Meros took over the position from May 1, 1979 to July 4th, 2000. Drummer Mike Kowalski and bassist/guitarist Ed Carter were two of the first outside musicians to join the group in 1969. Percussionist/drummer Bobby Figueroa was added in the mid-seventies until the end of 1987. Adrian Baker joined the band in 1981 as a vocalist/guitarist and left sometime in mid-1982. Jeff Foskett came aboard in early 1982 as a guitarist and vocalist and played his last show with the group on the night of July 4th, 1990. There was a stretch of time in 1981 and 1982 where both Jeff Foskett and Adrian Baker were in the band. Foskett was generally filling in for Carl's harmony parts, while he was away, while Baker did the falsetto vocals. Foskett is currently a member of Brian Wilson's group. Adrian Baker re-joined the band in 1989 to 1993 as a vocalist/guitarist. Saxman John Renner was added in the Summer of 1991 for live sax on Kokomo and others. John Renner was replaced in 1992 by Ritchie Cannata, one of Billy Joel's early live band and record saxophone players. Billy Hinsche, of Dino, Desi, & Billy fame, was also a longtime member of the supporting band throughout the '70s, '80s and '90s. Matt Jardine, son of Beach Boy Al Jardine also joined the band in 1989 through 1998 as singer / percussionist. In 1998, Adrian Baker re-joined the band (for a record-breaking third time) in 1998 until 2004. Randell Kirsch replaced Baker in 2004 to present as falsetto vocalist/guitarist. Nashville musician John Foster temporarily filled in on falsetto vocals and guitar between Baker's tenure and the addition of Kirsch. John Cowsill, an original member of the 1960s pop band The Cowsills, has been a vocalist/keyboardist since 1999. John Cowsill, replaced Mike Kowalski as the group's full time drummer in late 2007, leaving his secondary keyboard spot vacant.

And that sums it up!

 

 

I didn't think Brian went back on the road until '76 after 15 Big Ones came out.

From 74 to 76:
Brian did not tour.  Per a prior post Ed Carter was replaced by JWC.  On you tube I have seen a documentary made during the Beachago tour.  Ron Altbach is scene behind a piano and I am pretty sure that Carli Munoz also played keyboards.  In addition there is another video from that era that has Billy Hinsche playing guitar and singing "Wishing You Were Here".

From 76 to 77:
If you look at the Landover concert on You Tube you see the following line up:

Stage Front:
Mike Love:Tamborine, Vocals
Alan Jardine: Guitar Vocals
Carl Wilson: Guitar, Electric Piano, Vocals
Dennis Wilson: Drums, vocals
Brian Wilson: Piano, bass, Vocals
Ed Carter: Bass
Billy Hinsche: Electric Piano, Guitar, Vocals
Charles Lloyd: Sax Flute

On the Sail Boat:
Bobby F: Percussion, Drums
Keyboard Player 1: Carli Munoz
Keyboard Player 2: Ron Altbach?
Keyboard player 3: Gary Griffin?
Trumpet 1: ?
Trumpet 2: ?
Sax 1: : ?
Sax 2: ?
Sax 3: ?

1978:
From a look at the Melbourne concert it appears that Billy Hinsche and Ed Carter are not present (Brian played bass), otherwise the line-up is similar although I saw them in the summer of 78 in Providence and Brian was at an electric piano for all but a couple of tunes so I would think that Ed carter was there (At one point Brian is playing something other the song, Dennis left the drums and pulled the plug on Brian's piano and then Brian charged at Dennis only to be broken up by some of the road crew.  The rest of the band played through it.

1979:
Bruce re-joins the band.  All of the horns, including Charles Lloyd are gone.  By the looks of the Midnight Special show the number of additional keyboards has gone from 3 to 2.

1980:
Mike Meros joins the band and there is now only one additional keyboardist.  Ed Carter is on guitar in Europe (see Knebworth) but by the 4th of July he is back on bass and they play with two guitars.

Bruce rejoined the band in late Aug. - early Sept. 1978. He was with the BBs when they played Atlanta's Omni on Sept. 2, 1978, the only time I saw Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Al and Bruce together in person.

IIRC when Carl left the band in '81 Ed Carter moved to lead guitar and Joe Knott played bass.

Ernie Knapp, not Joe Knott.  (Knott was the cowriter of "Add Some Music To Your Day.")

Knapp, Knott...whatever.  They both added some music to our day.

Some corrections for ya...first, keyboard-wise:  from '73 to Sept. '77, Billy played piano (electric & acoustic), Carli Munoz was on organ & clavinet.  They brought along Don Lewis for synthesizer in April '74, then in the fall of that year added a fulltime synthesist:  Ron Altbach (who also occasionally played piano).  But a guy named Elmo Peeler sat in for Altbach on the fall '75 tour, and again in early '77 (the Landover aka Largo aka DC show).  In late '77 Gary Griffin joined (I believe he replaced Carli for a bit), but by the time of Melbourne in Feb/March '78, Carli was back on organ, and Gary was still in the band (on synth).  Billy was still there in late '77, but was gone by early '78...Sterling Smith had taken over the vacant piano spot by now (Billy returned November '82 and was there through the end of '95).  Regarding the Midnight Special in early '79:  they actually went from 3 keyboards to 4 or 5:  Sterling Smith on grand piano, Carli Munoz on organ, Phil Shenale on synthesizer, plus Bruce and Brian (in some of that footage you can see Bruce joining Sterling on the grand, while Brian plays the little white Wurlitzer electric...when Brian moves to bass, Bruce plays the Wurly). 

Next, guitar/bass-wise: Eddie Carter WAS present throughout '78 (including Melbourne), however with Brian now on bass for most of the show, Ed moved over to guitar (still played some bass in mid-show when Brian left the stage or got on the electric piano).  In the first half of 1980, Joe Chemay played bass, and Eddie Carter was again on guitar for the Euro tour (and some U.S. dates immediately prior).

Next, drum/percussion-wise:  Mike Kowalski replaced Bobby Figueroa in late '77/early '78 (including Melbourne), but Bobby was back by the summer...until the end of '81, when Mike K. again took over.  Bobby returned summer '83, and they were both there til Bobby departed again in early '88.

Finally, horn-wise:  trumpets were John Foss and Lance Buller (the latter also played trombone), tenor saxes were Michael Andreas and Rod Novak (the former also played alto), and the bari sax was Charlie McCarthy. 

While Blondie did play some bass, I'm fairly certain he was primarily a guitarist.  And I don't think Brian was playing much bass around that time.

A great idea would be for someone to go through all the info here and put together a "definitive sidemen" thread we could all try to fill in the the holes on.

I would agree with your assessment of Blondie, based on the fact that most of the photos & footage from that era show him playing his Les Paul...however, in a 1979 interview for BBFUN (Beach Boys Freaks United, the official fanclub newsletter), he said  that although he played lead guitar in The Flame, he switched to playing mostly bass in The Beach Boys after Bruce Johnston left! 

I never knew Gary Griffin was in the Beach Boys! He was/is Darian's replacement in Brian's band when he can't make it: imagine that in 2007 for a short spell there was Brian Wilson, Al Jardine, Billy Hinsche, Jeff Foskett and Gary Griffin in one band. And it'll never happen again...

How old is Gary?

I've seen pix of Blondie playing the Fender bass on stage with the Boys circa '72.

Yeah, there's a few, and he's seen playing it in one shot in the inner gatefold spread of "In Concert", but it's almost always the Les Paul.

I seem to recall a picture in the Priess book(?) of an 80's show (maybe - Carl?) that showed some guy in a Pink Floyd "The Wall" shirt playing bass.

Of course I'm away from the book right now....... >:(

Several years older after his keyboard collapsed in the middle of "GV" at The Roundhouse in London last September ! Man's a trooper - he just knelt down and played it on the floor.  Brian didn't miss a beat.

It's on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5DyxOwxK_Y and it's hilarious, Brian's reaction that is. He looks for a second, Gary mouths what happened, and then Brian calls for more drums from Mikey.