The Smiley Smile Message Board

I was just taking a look on the Bellagio 10452 site at all the songwriting credits Mike Love was awarded in 1994. I hadn't known there were so many, I had only been aware of California Girls and Wouldn't It Be Nice. How many of these belated songwriting credits are legit and how many are wishful thinking. I for one think the Wouldn't It Be Nice credit is a bit of a stretch, but others seem very plausible, such as I Get Around and California Girls.  But then there are others that are more questionable.  For example, Love getting a credit on the Hang On To Your Ego bonus track is just silly, when it is well known that he demanded a re-write of the song and it became I Know There's An Answer (which he has a real claim to authorship on).


Could Mike have been that screwed over by Murry? And if so, why didn't he make a bigger fuss over it at the time? I have heard about him being bitter about California Girls, but that is it.  He doesn't exactly seem like the kind of guy who wouldn't stand up for his rights when there was money involved.

Oh, no...... I'm running for the hills and staying clear away from this thread  :o

Well, considering certain overly excitable parties are not here, I'll bite.

Michael was awarded credit on 39 songs. He originally tried to get credit on 79 total. He was willing to settle out of court for, I believe, around $750,000 plus the future royalties. Brian's management decided to fight him on that. And I'd say it's fair judgment that due to Brian's management's hamfisted handling of the situation, Michael was indeed awarded credit on a questionable amount of material.

The suit was essentially of limited merit. Sure, nothing wrong with getting credits you deserve, but Michael's case was helped mainly, in my opinion, by Brian's overall unreliability as a witness and his management's handling. If Brian was surrounded by competents as opposed to the posse he had, Michael would have been given his out of court settlement and nothing more would have been said about it.

I don't think any have been questioned except for Wouldn't It Be Nice. As far as the others go everyone I've asked about it says they are legit. People in the Beach Boys circle even Dennis readily admitted over the years that Mike was the go to guy when it came to lyrics. Honestly I don't think Mike was aware that he wasn't being paid for many years. The best theory I can come up with is that Murry told him he would get his money despite not being on the label. Nothing else makes sense unless you want to buy into some wild conspiracy type deal.

According to Mike, he only realised he had been so screwed over by Murry when he was helping Brian to get the publishing rights back. As mentioned in another thread very recently, David Marks testified in court that Mike wasn't credited on the early songs for the lyrics that he contributed.

I think Mike knew all along that he was getting screwed over, probably from the first single/album/sheet music to be published without his credit, he didn't realize he could still legally recover his rights until he helped Brian in Brian's suit to recover Brian's rights.

Maybe some day we will know what was claimed and why a jury awarded what it awarded or maybe not and we'll just continue to speculate.

The "Wouldn't It Be Nice" question has been answered satisfactorily, IMO.  Mike contributed the "Good night, uh-oh baby / Sleep tight, uh-oh baby" couplet at the end.  Not a lot of words, but, it could be argued, an important hook.  Similarly, his contribution to "409" was the hookline "She's real fine, my 4-0-9" (as well as the backup vocal line "Giddy-up, giddy-up, 4-0-9").  His contributions to both songs were added separately to, and later than, Tony Asher and Gary Usher's initial authorship of the bulk of the lyrics.  The percentage he was subsequently awarded may indeed be very lopsided, but as previously pointed out, Brian's camp had the opportunity to settle and passed.

Is there a list of the 40 songs that he sued for but didn't get credit for somewhere?

Yeah, that would be interesting. And what's his/Brian's standpoint of them now? I guess "Surfin USA" was one of those as Mike still claims to have written the words.

It does include surfin USA. I’m sure someone will post the entire list. But meanwhile: it includes pretty much every pre-65 song that listed Brian as the sole writer--- with the exception of Surfer Girl and probably a couple others. It includes I Get Around and Help Me Rhonda. This means that Mike is credited on all four #1 hits of the BBs. It also includes the majority of the Today! album.

As always, the argument here is that Mike contributed a hook or a phrase for some of these songs and got songwriting credit. Some think it is unfair. In the end, we don’t know how the percentages were split for every song. And we are not privy to Mike’s argumentation for every song.

Yeah, it's interesting to note that Mike and Brian both (co-)wrote 4 no.1s, but Brian didn't do all for the Beach Boys ("Surf city")


I wouldn't doubt Mike having a hand in some of the lyrics, but to what extent I don't know.

I'd guess that most are to the extent of the difference between the demo (from Hawthorne, CA) and the final version of "Little Deuce Coupe". Not saying that it was Mike who changed those lyrics, though. But it could be.

I don't think Mike laid claim to any of the BW-RC songs.

If both Brian and Mike think that the current arrangement is fair; then I believe it's as fair as possible.

It would be insane to pick apart every popular song for who contributed what. What about all of the Lennon/McCartney or Jagger/Richards credits? This is the way artists choose to be represented and accordingly paid for the work they've done.

Sometimes a single line, a hook, a phrase, a topic even...can be worth a credit, should the people involved believe it to be. You can't take credits that seriously, I don't think musicians do.

Here we go again....Anybody want to take this/move this to the Mike Love "reputation thread" so we can duke it out over there? ;D

Nicko makes a good point in mentioning David Marks' testimony. Many people mention Brian's ineffective (?) testimony like he was the only witness available. Yes, some of the participants had passed away, but there had to be some who were still around who could've shed some light on the songwriting issue. Did Brian's side call anybody to testify other than Brian?

Also, Song Of The Grange stated that Mike "demanded" a re-write of "Hang On To Your Ego". Is that true? Demanded? So, Brian is working on this concept album with Tony Asher, Tony is the chief lyricist, Mike objects to the lyrics of one of the songs, and Brian says, "Oh, OK, Mike, we'll change the song around for you."  ??? :o  What power Mike must've had.

Terry Sachen wrote the HOTYE lyrics but your point is well taken. Mike was incidently recorded lobbying Brian to let him sing these lyrics he supposedly had to see go.

I seem to remember  studio chatter from the IKTAA vocal recording, can someone put ears to that and see if they hear anything like conversation about lyrics and not liking them.  Maybe I don't remember it right or imagined it.

He has claimed in at least one interview that he co-wrote "Don't Worry, Baby" and that NASCAR CD credits him also.

In the Goldmine interview that Mike did in the 90s he discussed many of these songs and made clear that often it wasn't 50-50.  On some songs Brian wrote most of the lyrics but Mike added a hook, in others Brian had a chorus or title and Mike wrote verses, in a few Mike said he just added a line.  I agree however that its irrelevant-because other songwriting legends like Jagger-Richards and Lennon-McCartney worked the same way.  For example-allegedly Keith Richards and Brian Jones wrote almost all of Ruby Tuesday, but Mick added something and gets credit (Brian Jones if he did contribute got nothing)...some Paul songs, have only small contributions from John and vice-versa but they didn't quibble about it too much.

Good point, another nail in the coffin of supposedly claiming too much credit.

Then, of course, we have David Leaf's liner notes to the original Capitol 2-fers released on CD pointing out how many of the songs were solely credited to Brian, thereby to BW's reputation as an underrated lyricist.  This was written prior to Mike's lawsuit.  

The big diffference between Lennon/McCartney and Wilson/Love was the agreement that John and Paul had to share songwrithing credits on everything.  It wasn't a situation of Paul's or John's parent/s managing the Beatles.

And I would agree, the hooks contributed were significant.   Brian could never quite get the words off the launch pad by himself. Rarely.  But Brian is such a giant with melody....like macca.....that it is ok.  That is important.  For example....who remembers the lyricist for Stardust?