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This ran this morning in Howie Edelson's nationally syndicated radio feed...

11/30/09
 
BEACH BOYS PBS 'AMERICAN MASTERS' SPECIAL IS IN THE WORKS
by Howie Edelson
__________________________________________

Mike Love says that a new Beach Boys retrospective is in the works for PBS' American Masters series in commemoration of the band's 50th anniversary which falls in 2011.
 
Love says that all eras of the band's history will be represented, with the principle bandmembers -- Love, Brian Wilson, Al Jardine, David Marks, and Bruce Johnston -- being featured through new and archival interviews and footage: "Well, I think the PBS special is absolutely going to happen, because there's so much existing footage. And it just entails some really nice interviews with the guys and culling stuff from the past. You get Carl (Wilson) involved there and Dennis (Wilson) involved and David Marks (laughs), y'know? So there's a lot of. . . I think there's a lot of -- in fact there is some dialogue with one of the producers at PBS and the American Masters program is definitely something, I think, should be done and will be done."
 
When asked about the program and the 50th anniversary being the springboard for the first attempted collaboration with cousin Brian Wilson in 15 years, Love -- as always -- remains open and willing for the legendary team to reunite: "The thing is with Brian, he's been doing a solo kind of deal for the last, oh, maybe 10 years now. But with Brian and myself, I honestly believe that we go back so far it transcends or goes beyond any of the dubious history -- y'know the water that's going over the dam in the last 20, 30 years or so. And when we are able to get together without any distractions, his abilities and my abilities are able to compliment each other pretty darn well -- as evidenced by all of the hits and great music we've done together."
 
When pressed about the possibility of the 50th anniversary celebrations being built around new Wilson-Love songs rather than solely an oldies show with the band's survivors, Love said: "Y'know, I have a very positive attitude towards getting together with Brian. And there have been some negative things that have gone on between us, but they weren't really between us, they were out of the control of each of us, so those things that were points of contention are in the past. So there's nothing but -- as far as I'm concerned -- the sky's the limit and very open to what you're suggesting."
 
There's been no official word on whether plans are in motion for the 50th anniversary reunion shows which have been previously mentioned by Love. Although the main players of a proposed reunion would be based around the Beach Boys' '60s lineups, Love was very open to '70s members Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar also participating.
 
Early industry rumors suggested that the Beach Boys' 50th anniversary might be a combination of both American Masters and Great Performances, combining both a new documentary with a live show of some sort.
 
Brian Wilson last performed with the Beach Boys in 1996. Carl Wilson died in 1998, Al Jardine was forced out of the band the same year. Dennis Wilson drowned in 1983.
 
The Beach Boys' company Brother Records Inc. (BRI), was formed in 1967 and is owned and controlled by Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, and the estate of the late Carl Wilson. Shortly after co-founder Dennis Wilson's death in 1983, his estate sold his shares back to the band to repay loans.
 
Mike Love, who continues to tour with Bruce Johnston, was granted the exclusive license by BRI to tour under the Beach Boys name. Although he is the only partner in the group out on the road, Brian Wilson, Jardine, and Carl Wilson's estate receive a percentage from each Beach Boys tour.
 
David Marks, who began making music with the Wilsons as a pre-teen, was a member of the Beach Boys from 1961 to 1963 and one of the five names on the band's original contract to Capitol Records. In 1990 Marks contributed to Brian Wilson's unreleased second solo album Sweet Insanity. Marks rejoined the Beach Boys in 1997 and stayed for three years. He occasionally sits in with the touring version of the Beach Boys, and now regularly appears in concert with fellow Beach Boys co-founder Al Jardine.
 
Guitarist Blondie Chaplin has been a part of the Rolling Stones' touring band since 1997, and Ricky Fataar now drums for Bonnie Raitt, among others.

If it's done properly, and that's a big 'if', given the participants and their history, it could be outstanding.

This could indeed be awesome if done correctly. Mike obviously has to get Brian onside which will probably be quite hard but what about Al, what is his current relationship with Mike like?

Apparently they're on good terms again.

Awesome.  Hopefully there'll be a CD set to accompany it ala Anthology.

Not really on topic, but that's something I never knew before.

Whatever it is, anything new is better than nothing! (Except another greatest-hits-only cd!)  ;D

I once did a search on amazon for Beach Boys greatest hits/best ofs, I got to around fifty before I became bored and also saddened.

Back on topic, good to see Mike is open to having Ricky and Blondie involved.

If you read the article carefully, the special doesn't seem to be a done deal. No one from PBS is quoted or mentioned. It's an aspiration of Mike's, and one he and Bruce have talked about a lot. But Mike was talking about the same thing in the early 90s -- does anyone remember "Unplugged in Paradise"?

I will go out on a limb and say it is in no way, shape or form going to happen. There might -- might -- be a documentary. But the chances of Brian suddenly wanting to collaborate on a song or album with Mike? Very low.

Plus, given Brian's Disney deal, 2010 will be taken up with the Gershwin project. 2011 will likely be the Disney album. And then, whoops, the anniversary has passed. Darn.

In Brian's "autobiography", there is a photo of David and Brian together in the studio from '90.

I will say this about the Lovester-his interviews or comments of late seem to be much more polite than in years past. You know, back in the day, he'd say something like 'I was ripped off by the Wilson clan. They've deserved everything they've gotten'. Not exactly like that, but you get the point. He seems much more gracious these days.

Yes, well, he has something he wants. And that something is Brian Wilson adding legitimacy to a Beach Boys 50th anniversary celebration.

Not saying he doesn't also want to put the past behind him, etc., but there are ulterior motives aplenty.

If Brain doesn't collaborate in any way for a 50th anniversary special, he will definitely lose some of my sympathy.

Well while you're out there on your limb you should be armed with the facts. The fact is PBS has recently reached out to the BB's about doing a special, and that info didn't come from Mike, he only confirmed it.

Oh, Oh!! Watch out Brian! This guy could be big trouble!  :lol

Jon -- Be that as it may, it's not reflected in the article you asked us to read. The only source quoted is Mike. There are not even any anonymous sources from PBS. The only source that I'm able to scrutinize is Mike and his comments. And nothing he says suggests a deal has been finalized -- only that it's possible.

Given Mike's record of, in the past, talking about all sorts of business and entertainment deals -- Unplugged in Paradise, Club Kokomo -- that have not panned out (not to mention the BBs organization and the never-materialized BB Central) I therefore take Mike's word for what it's worth. Not too much.

Could someone tell me what the idea behind "Unplugged in Paradise", "Club Kokomo" and "BBs organization" was?

Unplugged was actually a great idea. It would have been similar to the acoustic 1993 set and the campfire sequence from Endless Summer. Love also stressed he wanted a vinyl version, and in 1993 that was rare and it made me stop hating him lol. Actually it really is too bad that it didn't happen because I think it would have proved to people that the Beach Boys still had talent.  It would have presented them a natural creative manner.

The PBS special could be a great final chapter. If it is done well and everybody takes part I think we could have something fantastic. Oh and if "Brian" says no don't be pissed. "Brian" doesn't make that kind of decision.

Club Kokomo was a themed restaurant chain Love wanted to start up. The BB organization isn't something special -- I just meant the group's management. It started up the BB Central website, promising great things (potentially unreleased) and it's been -- what -- three years now?

I also don't mean to sound too grouchy. I think such a project could be decent. But Brian has clearly and forcefully stated his opposition to taking part in a reunion enough times to make me think that the wifeandmanagers would only push for it if there was some clear benefit to BW. And I don't think there is, at least right now.

On the other hand, a documentary would be okay, but I don't know how or why it would be better than Endless Harmony or some of the other docs floating around. It would still be an hour or so just skimming over the guys' life and career. What have they done in the last decade that's worth adding?

Exactomundo :smokin

First of all, I think that if all the pieces fall into place, a Beach Boys 'American Masters' special would be nothing short of revelatory. With the show's track record of high quality and the band's (steadily growing) extraordinary archive -- it would be hard to miss. But let's not confuse a brilliant new retrospective with a reunion concert.  A PBS retrospective was all that Mike was talking about.

Claymcc seems to have some trust issues with Mike that he needs to work on (or not), but the fact remains that there are always A LOT of projects going on around the band; be it the individual members, projects in the works from within their company, pitches from their record label, not to mention outside projects from the BB's associates. Some of the people here know about some of them -- others know about even more. There are a lot of people here who knew for a while that PBS was taking a major interest in spotlighting the band. Claymcc did not -- no biggie.

Taking umbrage with Mike Love talking about/revealing too much about either projects he wants to initiate, or projects that eventually lost steam for various reasons is silly. Mike isn't out to "screw you" by promising "fake projects." Mike finally says all the right things, and in my opinion for all the right reasons, and he's STILL a villain -- not to mention a liar???

I don't get that. You'd really have to WANT to make that one stick to stick. No?

Brian-centric viewpoints cloud judgments.

I would like to be surprised if this goes well, I do.

I just want SOMETHING to happen for the anniversary. The Beach Boys need as much attention as the Beatles get -actually I wish the public perception of the two bands was reversed....sorry, but it's true.

I thought the rooftop thing was nice enough personally! Trust me as much as it would be nice for this to happen, I don't see the point in it.

While some new footage of old interviews (or new interviews) would doubtlessly be interesting in spots, I wouldn't be too excited about another standard-length doc, either. Beatles Anthology style, though, now we'd be talking.

Yeah I'd love something like that too!

Four quick points --

1.) Documentary or reunion or whatever, Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, Dave, Blondie, Ricky are grown men. Whatever they or their management decide is fine by me. I just hope a doc or reunion is good.

2.) No, I don't have insider information about PBS. But on its own, the article is Mike speculating about the future. It's good to know what he's thinking, but it still reads as speculation.

3.) "Unplugged in Paradise." "Club Kokomo." "BBs Central." I didn't make them up. I wish I had. I will say that Mike's promises about setlists and orchestral shows have been borne out, and the results from all accounts have been excellent.

4.) Yes, Mike is saying all the right things. But let's not pretend that he and the BB brand don't have something to gain from Brian participating.

Right... and your post obviously alluded that the possibility of a PBS special (being floated by Mike in this particular article) wasn't necessarily real BECAUSE no PBS person was quoted etc.. etc...  You were even going out on the limb to say it was not happening....remember? Since I KNOW that it IS real and that your point was not correct, I shared that info with you. PBS has reached out to the BB's regarding a special, I can confirm that from multiple BB's sources other than Mike. Whether it comes together or not, whether it is good, etc.. etc... are separate issues. Done deal? No. Not even close. But I can confirm that what Mike says in the article about the fact that a PBS special is being offered is true. Got it?

My question is this: why would Mike talk to the media about it BEFORE anything is finalized?  I thought the rule of thumb in entertainment was that you don't reveal much (if anything) about a future project until  there is a certainty of it happening.

Mike's and the band's track record on making good on grandiose projects is not that good ("we're sure to sell a million units in January 1967" pretty much set that template).  All Clay was doing was pointing that out. Rightly so too.

Right... and your post obviously alluded that the possibility of a PBS special (being floated by Mike in this particular article) wasn't necessarily real BECAUSE no PBS person was quoted etc.. [/quote]

Another question. Why wasn't someone from the network  quoted in the article? Honestly, Jon, if you hadn't said anything in this thread I also would have asssumed the same thing Clay did. Anybody with a healthy sense of skepticism wouls have too.

You're welcome. I try to share what I know when its relevant.

Rob... don't credit something said on a Capitol salesmen's promo disc over 42 years ago to Mike or the band. Get the facts right, please.

Never noticed that before, must have overlooked it. Will check it out. Thanks!

To be fair, when he made some of those comments he had been ripped off.

One thing I've come to know, after reading this board for a few years, is that Jon Stebbins NEVER involves himself in idle speculation, gossip or trivia.

If he shares information with us (which I greatly appreciate), there is validity and substance to it.

Too many times we 'bite the hand that feeds us' (sorry AGD) but we are blessed to have so many 'people in the know' posting here.

Nothing to be sorry about. I think Sean Lennon shares your view!

The question was asked why was Mike talking to the media before the special has been finalized. I guess it is to get interest in a 50th going for fans of the band and the message may flow on to Brian and his people.
It has often been mentioned how Brians band are such fans of his, and rightly so, and are well aware of his problems. I would like to hear how they feel about a reunion. I like to think they would be supportive.

Brians band have helped him with his stage fright, his mental health, SMiLe, and writers block. Big obstacles for him that they have worked through together. The last obstacle for me is this. A recent story had Brian saying of The Beach Boys, more or less,  'they don't like me that much'. Now that's sad he feels that way.

I think a band so in tune with Brian would love to help him again if possible. In the last few years we have seen Brian and Al together and just weeks ago Mike and Jeff Foskett at a informal singalong. Mike and Brian had 'a meeting' to hash out the 'Warmth Of The Sun' tracks.(a 'meeting' with your cousin for goodness sakes!!!). Dave and Al have performed together plus Mike, Bruce and Dave. Its a pretty close knit community still.

A PBS deal I suspect would not be a big money maker for anyone. Very few, if any new fans. No new interest in the group but maybe a broadening in the minds of the public of the depth of material the band has if coupled with a Anthology album and/ or DVD.

But if a 'reunion' happened, and I mean anything from a full length summer tour to 5 guys going out to dinner once, or anything in between, I believe the biggest winner would be the guy who started it all. Brian himself. Would Brians band not be supporting him?

Well, I think that depends on how one views the Beach Boys. Are they

1.) A true group of friends and collaborators

or

2.) A vocal group that Brian Wilson assembled to perform his compositions, a group which -- when the going got rough for Brian -- made it clear he wasn't wanted (except when record contracts depended on him)

?

I'm not saying either one is true (or false), but I would venture that Brian and his folks lean toward number two.

I'd also like to add in the interesting timing of this. When Brian is recording a solo record. Just a reflection, not an opinion is this someway to defer anything Brian is doing now? IF it is in that light, then I would not be in support of such a thing.

The timing of it is that there's only going to be one 50th anniversary for the founding of the Beach Boys.  I think Brian's solo career can take a short breather for that; not like he's going to sell many copies.  He's toured as a solo plenty of times. I don't think any reunion would involve a lot of tour dates, should any tour be planned at all.  They should do something.  Brian seems to express different opinions at different times.  I just hope Melinda Wilson will have the wisdom to see some kind of commemorative appearance would be helpful to Brian and his career at this point.  I know a lot of people don't like seeing Melinda criticized, but she does seem to be the one with final say.  If she thinks Mike or any of those guys might take advantage of or mistreat Brian, all she has to do is be there and hover, like Yoko Ono or something.

...or 3) One of the worlds most well known rock bands, perhaps the best known vocal group, who should forgive and move on while they are still alive rather than stirring up old issues.

Just to defend a friend of the board, I'm pretty sure one of the reasons behind Clay's viewpoint is that he very recently interviewed Brian who very forcefully said he did not want to participate in any sort of reunion.

Now, it's been a LOOONNNGGG time since I've trusted what a Beach Boys has said at face value. Remember when Al said his album would be done soon. Riiiiggghhhttt. When Al said the group would reunite in London in 2006 for Pet Sounds shows. Riiiggghhht. Need I go into what Brian has said over the years? Or the developments people have mentioned Mike mentioned?

The thing is there is a hell of a lot of bridges to cross before this is anywhere near finished. I think we call all agree on that. That PBS has approached the Beach Boys is a great step in the right direction. I hope that the finished product will include interviews with all of the band. But I have a lots of doubts about any sort of live performance; among the last times Brian played with the Beach Boys in 1996 (Nashville) I know he barely participated and I know via Catch a Wave there was a lot of friction between the band then; the last time Brian played with Al we know how that ended; I know David most likely won't play live with the Beach Boys anymore; and finally the last time the Beach Boys were in the same studio together recording original, new material it did not end well. I'm just afraid with all of the progress Brian has made since 1999, it might come crashing down.

I'll bet he will lose a lot of sleep over your effing "sympathy"....

I think some people just have to get passed that the fractions weren't always there, the BB were together for a long time and the fact they got to 50 years and their catalog is still being played is a testament to their legend and so why not honor it? I have to disagree about Brian losing progress if he does this. If he has been able to see them before (ie capitol rooftop) I think it would be okay. He's come a long way from 1999 as well.

TD -- I appreciate your kind words. I may well have been too caustic in my first responses; clearly Jon and Howie are upstanding guys.

But I admit to a bit of frustration. Mike has been saying thinks like this consistently for the past year or so. The paper I work for ran an interview with him this summer, in fact.


And when I asked folks here what they would be interested in knowing from Brian, reunion talk topped the list. I asked him not only if he was interested in working with Mike (he wasn't) but what he thought of the Beach Boys ("we don't get along very good.") This was in October. It cast a chill over the interview, too -- he showed more emotion there than on any other subject.

Given that Brian just had one of his best solo tours, given that he has an exciting two-album record deal, and given that he has a devoted and supportive band now -- I guess I just don't see why a reunion with the Beach Boys is so important, beyond inevitable chronology. It's easy for us to say "let the past be the past" -- but how easy is it for Brian to say that? (And let's not forget -- Mike was suing Brian as recently as two years ago.)

I love the general tone of this thread.

"Michael is announcing something before it's set in stone."
"Michael's trying to manipulate Brian."

Is there really that much of a density within the fanbase? If Brian and Melinda's track record is anything to be believed (and we all know that questioning them equals a permaban in Brianista land), Brian will be right up there with Michael if this thing is seen through. Don't think for one minute that Brian's allergic to the almighty dollar.

Michael is a businessman. Brian is a businessman. Both of them know how the other works. Michael has his track record and so does Brian. Neither one of them is stupid, and presuming that this is just another attempt by Michael to get to Brian is precisely that - stupid.

All I've been reading is how bad this would be for Brian if it doesn't turn out well. However...think about how good it would be for Brian if it DOES turn out well. Look at what happened when he released BWPS...that did him a world of good, yet beforehand for decades he wouldn't even want to discuss it. I for one would like to see him try.

Who wrote the exact words of the promo is immaterial because it came out under the auspices of the band. My "misquote" does not invalidate my point because the group's history is littered with bright ideas that never came to fruition. 

I think there continues to be a failure to look at both sides of the story/situation, and an overall loss of touch with reality.

There was a recent thread about Brian performing "The Monster Mash" in concert. A YouTube clip was linked; I watched it. Brian sang, not even the lead vocal, but the part "it caught on in a flash" / "it was a graveyard smash", in a very awkward voice. The clip was followed with a few posts which described Brian's performance as "amazing" and "brilliant". I just shook my head. My twelve year-old nephew could've arranged that song on his keyboard. My six year-old nephew could've sung Brian's part - more Bobby "Boris" Pickett-like. We're talking about "The Monster Mash" folks. And Brian was praised for including the song in his set, while, for years, the same people praising Brian were probably the same ones criticizing Mike Love for doing the same thing, or the same older songs.

Then came the "See This Tour" thread. Somebody commented that Brian's medication seems to finally be straightened out. I saw it a different way....Brian came out on stage and was using profanity. Brian was reading "conversation" and banter with his bandmates - OFF THE TELEPROMPTER! (It's funny, but Dr. Landy used to be criticized for doing the same thing with cue cards.) Before Brian would perform a particular song, he would criticize it and say that he didn't want to sing it. While attempting to play his keyboard, Brian would lose his place and flub the lyrics. And now, instead of singing some parts, he's speaking them. I saw the recent YouTube clips; I hear nothing different than the last 6-7 years. One poster stated that his highlight was hearing "Custom Machine"; oh, how things have changed....I work in the mental health field, and, if I observed the above type of behavior(s), I would not assume that the medication was working appropriately. Actually, I would suggest that he submit to a period of observation and have his meds thoroughly checked.

And now this thread...Once again, posters are questioning why anybody would want a Beach Boys' reunion and why Brian would want to join it. Really? Who would want a Beach Boys' reunion and why would Brian want to join it? We are fans, short for fanatical. I understand that. There are also some advocates for Brian on this board. I understand that, too. But, please, look at the reality of the situation. Imagine a poll of all Beach Boys fans in the world, from the casual who own a "Greatest Hits" CD  to the die-hards like us. And ask them if they would like to see the Beach Boys do a reunion concert, or album, or tour, or film a documentary, or anything. Wouldn't it be overwhelmingly "yes". Well, that's who would want to see a reunion since you asked. The fans. That alone is not enough for a reunion to happen, but it is a reason. I won't waste your time listing reasons why it would be beneficiary to the individual guys; you don't want to hear it anyway.  

We will never know the truth if Brian would like to do a reunion with the Beach Boys because Brian does not tell the truth. We can speculate both ways, but we will never know for sure, unless and until it happens, and then we probably won't know how he feels anyway. I'll repeat again that there are two sides, and I'm not "sold" that Brian could potentially lose so much and be hurt so badly by reuniting with his cousin and friends. What does he really have to lose? He ain't selling many records, he ain't selling many tickets, and we have debated endlessly whether he even enjoys touring with this band (and that's nothing against his band). He's not gonna get hurt; Melinda won't allow it. Yeah, some people were knocked out by TLOS, but some people weren't. Sure, signing a contract for two new albums is note worthy, but, for many, another two "cover albums" is disappointing, or unfulfilling.  

And finally, do you remember these? "There's been some talk about Phil Spector and myself doing an album togther...", "I'm gonna do a rock and roll album next...", "Smile will never come out...", "I love touring....", and Mike speaking about the rooftop meeting in 2006 (I'm paraphrasing), "Brian talked to me about working on some songs"....

A few opinions and thoughts:

1. I don't think it should be a typical hour long program. It should be done like the Beatles anthology. It should be done over three or four days with each episode an hour long, at least. You just can't tell their story in one hour. The SMiLE saga alone would take up a big chunk. Then you have the Brian Is Back thing. Then the MIU/Christmas sessions, Brian's retreat, yet again, into the abyss. Enter Bruce for the LA Light album. Then Dennis's exit from the band and subsequent death. Then the Landy years, etc etc....

2. The first half hour(or maybe even the entire first episode) should be Mike and Brian meeting in an empty room. Remember the "Bands Reunited"? show on VH1? Something like that. Just Brian and Mike in an empty room. No wives, lawyers, hangers ons, or therapists. Only a very small camera crew. Brian should confront Mike over the Smile lawsuit, and various of stuff. Mike should confront Brian for all the drugs and mental illness. He needs to get out his feelings of abandonment, etc. Then Mike and Al should meet in the same room. Same story basically. Mike and Al confront each other about the years of lawsuits. Al confronts Mike over his(Al) being forced out of the group. Then all three men sit down and try to have a friendly conversation.

3. Why is it that Mike ALWAYS mentions Brian when talking about a reunion, but never says a word about AL? I mean, in the above article he even mentioned Carl and Dennis and David, but still not a word about Al. Something isn't right about that....

It didn't come out 'under the auspices of the band' - it came out on a promo disc issued solely to Capitol salesmen and I seriously doubt the band ever knew of its existence. Probably still don't. Your point is entirely valid - your supporting evidence is entirely spurious.

One of the main attractions of a potential PBS retrospective would be recontextualizing the band and their image into the sophisticated, intellectual and aesthetically refined "American Masters" style, which would add inestimable luster to their "brand". PBS might also have enough pull for BRI to agree to contribute unreleased audio or video material for inclusion. Both prospects are very exciting, uniquely so!

This has little to do with how things would be today, but I want to point out that Brian does have many good feelings about the band too. What Brian said to you was probably true that day, but his mood changes a lot. This was someone who with me demonstrated a lot of happiness about and pride in the Beach Boys. Lighting up at the chance to refute the some of the old myths, he told me how well the group worked together in the post Smile era, that he was "very" involved, and that it was a good time for group relationships. He seemed like he very much missed their friendship. Again this was how he felt that day, he was in a very good mood, and if not overly talkative he seemed to be a regular guy totally with the conversation.  Not that I'm saying he was any less involved or friendly with you but maybe his head was in a different place. Perhaps he feels safer with the past then the uncertainty of what could be, honestly I don't know. All I know with certainty is that I never once got the impression that he hated, disliked, or had a beef with any of the Beach Boys. 

If I had to venture a guess based on my interactions with them I would say that if Mike, Al, Brian, Dave, and Bruce all had a commen goal that they would get along fine. The essential thing to me is that lackey's, lawyers, and wives, would not get in the way.  Time after time I've heard that when they actually talked directly to each other things were always worked out.

 What I was convinced of more then anything was not that he wanted the group back together per say,  but that he did enjoy being a Beach Boy for many years. They did like each other and some time together without lawyers, wives, and lackey's around wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Given, that for me, The Beach Boys as an entity ceased to exist years ago and that today "The Beach Boys" name is just a trademark which is licensed to one individual I am left very ambivialnt about any sort of reunion, concert or otherwise, done for commercial purposes.

However, a nice artistic review of the band's catalogue and contribution to the American and Global cutural and artistic heritage - as opposed to another historical documentary - is for me a nice way to celebrate the beginning of a body of work unparalled in the late 20th century in the USA ...

... but ... just for gawd's sake keep Brittany Spears, Lady Gaga, the talentlest offspring of drug addled rock'n'rollers and whatever flavour of the month pop star is hawking their skinny arse around Hollywood as far from the cameras as possible.

I would agree that one poster's love of Brian is influencing his opinion on a lot of things...

Firstly, there is no way that anyone could seriously argue that all of the other band members were just singers who performed Brian's compositions. Mike co-wrote so many important songs with Brian, and Carl said in interviews that Mike also contributed a lot to some of the vocal arrangements too.

Also, I agree that Brian does give very different comments about the band members at different times. He was obviously on good enough terms with Al to tour with him (despite Al earlier being banned from talking to him) and he seems to have no problem with Bruce either. He and Mike also seemed fine with each other for the rooftop celebration. At other times though, interviewers have said that Brian has started shaking when the band's name has even been mentioned which obviously isn't healthy. The fact that he has continually said that his current band are better singers than the BBs, thereby insulting his 2 dead brothers, also seems to indicate that he can be really uncomfortable with the past. Landy obviously will have been a big cause of this but Leaf may not have helped either...

I think that any sort of reunion, even just getting those guys into the same room again, might be good for Brian and allow him exorcise some demons...

Much of this thread (including my comments) summarized:

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)

Clay that's brilliant!

I for one hope that all the crap that has gone on over the years can be put to one side and hope that some form of reunion does go ahead instead of having Al, Mike/Bruce and Brian all touring seperately......but all playing the same songs. Also, Brian plays lots of Beach Boys songs each time he tours so  he can't hate the Beach Boys that much can he?!

Don't forget the third L.

That would be SD?

Whoever SD is... nope. Leaf, Landy & L...  ::)

Maybe there's four "L"s then. I was thinking LSD.

Perhaps AGD refers to the quoted source in the article that began this all ...  ;D

Unlikely - I think he refers to another M. L. !

Leadbetter?

 ::)

What isn't well known is that Brian has recently been beset by hallucinations of leprechauns.

Hello, from Barbara Ann.  This is  the second time I have ever been on the internet.  A couple of weeks ago I gave a review of my opinion on going to see Brian Wilson in concert.  I asked anyone (on Brian's site) to let me know when Brian would be back in the Munhall Pgh area.  I was sorry that no one would respond.  After reading today of the PBS special I have to ask why and how it is going to be worthy of credibility if Brian is not involved?  I realize that for some insane reason Mike Love has the rights to the Beach Boy name, however he is only one member of THE BEACH BOYS.  I think is a shame that Mike is able to jade the rememberance and the heart and soul of the group (any of the Wilsons) will have input on the project.  I for one will not tune in.

Firstly, Mike has the right to tour as The Beach Boys because he agreed to the terms of a license that was approved by a majority of the voting members of BRI - that is, Mike, Alan, Carl's estate... and Brian. Not "insane" at all, but legally agreed. Brian "is only one member of THE BEACH BOYS" too, you know.

I take it you've not seen a Mike & Bruce show these last three, four years ?  They are excellent, play rarities and definitely give Brian's band a run for their money.

I had never seen a PBS AM program before so had a look on their website.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/

Looks very good and at the moment for those interested, a complete Joan Baez program is available. The programs look very factual and presented in a non tabloid, headline screaming manner. I'll be looking forward to one on The Beach Boys.

2011 would also be a perfect time to present a package of unreleased material. Doesn't Capitol have a huge stockpile that was being sorted over the last few years? Where do we stand with that?

I still think to mark 50 years we could see a reunion of sorts. It may be a presentation similar to the rooftop, nothing more, and thats ok.

Would we all agree with TonyW that should there be some kind of gig, Britney and co take a hike? ;)  

I guess what I would prefer to see is not a gig, but a documentary.
A gig could be great if all the right factors came into play, but I keep picturing Mike cracking corny jokes, Brian clamming up at the keyboard (did he EVER give a good performance with the BBs?), and Al and Bruce being Al and Bruce, meaning okay, but nothing exciting. Would they sound good singing together in 2011? It's not 1966 anymore. Okay, so these guys had a period when they were actually good on stage (early 70s), but they're not exactly Queen.

As for a documentary, I could picture a scene where they all sit in a room and the cameras roll. Maybe someone like Pete Fornatale could come in and ask them questions, and they'd start reminiscing. The narrative part could go through all their periods, including the music that the general public isn't familiar with. They could call it Beach Boys 50 and run it over a few nights during a pledge drive or something.

I love docs on the BBs!! From other American Masters specials I've seen I believe they have a pretty good record, so I can't wait ;D

Great article, don't agree with that though. IMO, alive or dead, Dennis & Carl will always be "principle" members of the Beach Boys. Especially compared to Bruce :)

Good for you! Although the first part of AGD's post is correct, the second part is purly his viewpoint. And please feel more than free to express that you feel that it is insane for Mike Love to have the Brian Wilson approved right to call him and Bruce the BB's. We all know its not even close to being the BB's-just a copy band (you know, like the ones they feature on PBS) who is far too available. If you want authenticity, not baboonery, just stick with Brian-he wrote most of it anyway.

I can understand that viewpoint, but I doubt anybody who has been to Mike & Bruce's shows (or heard tapes) would call it "baboonery".

The Beach Boys...the best band with the most ignorant fans. :)

By the way, for the curmudgeon who doubted Brian's recent developments, I have two recordings of Brian's recent shows and he is indeed in top form...makes a few mistakes but every performer does. He sings and communicates better than I've ever heard him on stage.

And to the Real BB, can you please check your PMs?

Brian's Back! ::)

I think this statement would make a great thread.

I don't know if I would call it ignorance, although there are some who are less informed than others (such is the nature of any fandom). I would actually wager that the average poster on this board knows far more about the group than is good for them.

But the group does have strong partisans on many sides, which can affect how one views developments about the group. Brian was for many years the only one who was accorded any critical or biographical respect. Thankfully that has changed, partly due to the efforts of folks like Jon, who have done yeoman's work in spotlighting Dennis and Dave. But the lens through which you view the group -- or if you see it as a group first and foremost -- will lead to wildly different takes on practically any event involving them. (Well, except that Stars and Stripes sucked.)

And I don't know if I'd say Brian is back. He's certainly not his "old self," and never will be. But the recent tour was pretty surprising, as folks here can attest.

I would be the first to put down Mike's and the Beach Boys shows from 1981, 1984-87, 1989-1992, and 1994-2000 but since then, especially in the last few years, he is every bit as good as Brian when Brian is not performing a thematic show.

There's one aspect of fandom I don't get. To me either you like a group or don't. I've seen people who love Jan but hate Dean, I've seen Three Stooges fans who hate Shemp and Joe just because they aren't Curly, 50's Elvis fans hate 70's Elvis, Dylan's been hated at one time or another by almost everyone. Of course with the Beach Boys we get the Mike Love crap. Honestly it's good to have a critical perspective but I don't think it's right not to see the relative strengths and weaknesses of everybody and to at least to understand changes in direction. OK so Ringo Starr wasn't John Lennon, that still doesn't take away all the talent and charm he brought to the Beatles.

Not quite, I'm sorry if I come out all fanboy...I meant as I've ever heard him on stage in a BW show over the last ten years. I was just being sincere and I hope that you don't think I'm a bandwagon person....

Pray, when did you last see a Mike & Bruce show, that you may know what you're talking about ?  ;D

I'm just joking, and glad you took it so well.

All this being said, can we please keep the word "baboonery" in circulation, please? It's too good to lose.

Perhaps we can use it to describe Joe Thomas or something ...

Couldn't resist the word and yes, it is in the dictionary- ;)

when they come to Philly, we"ll go see them-I'll pick 'em apart while you defend them-could be interesting-and leave your gun at home.

He's an englishman. Those savages don't have guns.

I'm going to have the above paragraph inscribed on a golden plaque and hung with pride above the entrance to my shack.

"Hello, from Barbara Ann.  This is  the second time I have ever been on the internet.  A couple of weeks ago I gave a review of my opinion on going to see Brian Wilson in concert.  I asked anyone (on Brian's site) to let me know when Brian would be back in the Munhall Pgh area.  I was sorry that no one would respond.  After reading today of the PBS special I have to ask why and how it is going to be worthy of credibility if Brian is not involved?  I realize that for some insane reason Mike Love has the rights to the Beach Boy name, however he is only one member of THE BEACH BOYS.  I think is a shame that Mike is able to jade the rememberance and the heart and soul of the group (any of the Wilsons) will have input on the project.  I for one will not tune in."

Of course we all want THE BEACH BOYS to exist! And that means we all want Dennis and Carl alive and well too! But let's face it, Brian doesn't even want to be called "The Beach Boys"! So, what does it matter that Mike has the name? Would it be any more fair for Al to be "The Beach Boys"? Not really? Like it or not, Mike co-wrote so many songs and sang lead so many songs, that if it aint Brian taking the name, then it most surely should be Mike, ya know? Mike is actually the most instantly recognizable voice of The Beach Boys! That's arguable, of course. But there are fans out there who can't tell Brian from Carl or Al, or even Dennis, but everyone can spot Mike Love in an instant!

So, Mike has a Beach Boy-sound-alike band! So? Brian does too! And what else are they supposed to do? People show up wanting bass, drums, guitar, and full "Beach Boy" harmonies! This is almost 50 years down the line here! Let's give these guys our support, and some slack!

I am glad you and Ed liked what I wrote. I really don't quite understand the fractions of fandom. I like and dislike certain records or periods but again if I follow someone's career I try to treat the person with some respect. Even if they make some artistic decisions I don't like, that doesn't take away from the qualites that first drew me in.

MBE: The issue is complex. If people primarily like the Beach Boys because of their early hits, if they feel those are the best things the group did, then they put a lot of stake in the Brian-Mike partnership, because that's what helped create those. If they're big into the group's 70s output, they'll likely think Dennis and Carl crucial to any conception of the group. And if (like me) they jumped into fandom with Brian's comeback of the mid-90s, they'll see the narrative as his story. Groups are made of shifting, component parts that people can have wildly different views on.

The Beatles and Jan and Dean are not quite fair examples, because each had a small, concentrated period of creativity. The Beatles lasted all of nine years. J&D were less than that. And the Beatles, for all that John and Paul dominated, were a true group in terms of arrangement and performance. Jan and Dean were mainly Jan's thing, even though Dean kept the flame alive on the road.

The Beach Boys, on the other hands, have 50 years of continuous group history. Four original members were still working together in the mid-90s, some 36 years after they began. All members have created solo projects. And unlike groups like the Stones, where conflict has helped spark creative tension, the conflict in the BBs has always been more fraught and family oriented (like the Kinks).

So while in a general sense I think you're quite right -- you take groups as they come, and all members make them what they are -- the peculiar circumstances of the BBs (their long history, the quite disparate creative contributions of different members at different times, the sibling-cousin rivalry) mean fans are often more factional than they might otherwise be.

Brilliant post as usual, Clay. I became a fan in the mid-90s, so yeah I tend to be more Brian-centric. Oddly enough, though, I'm not as much of a fan of the pre-Pet Sounds albums, even though that was Brian's supposed "best" work (PS excepted).

Excellent posts and points MBE and claymcc; I agree with a lot of what you wrote. If I may add another element to the equation....

I know it's not supposed to matter, or matter as much as it does, but I think we as fans know too much. And it does - for some people, including me - affect the way I view and hear an artist's music. I'm not talking about the Charles Manson or Phil Spector type issues, but the "behind the scenes" elements or the stories behind the music.

With books, magazines, and especially the internet, we know sooooooo much about a group and the songs. I'm sure you've heard Paul McCartney say on occasion to knowledgeable interviewers, "You know more about me than me."

I could go real long on this, but I'll limit it to two examples - good old Mike and Brian. I wonder how many people dislike Mike Love, not because of his voice, lyrics, or even personality, but because of his views on SMiLE, his values, his stories including "Back In The USSR", his Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame speech, or the imfamous lawsuits - all of which have nothing to do with his performance on the records or on the stage. Because of this, and other things that could be listed, people just don't like Mike. And, I believe it affects the way they hear the music - and the things they write. Of course that's their right, but I often wonder, if those people didn't know those things about Mike, outside the actual music, would they still enjoy his work or performances?

I will speak personally about Brian....Because of what I know, or think that I know, it has affected the way I feel about Brian's music. Like most of you I have tried  to read almost everything (published) there is about Brian.  But there came a time when I began to read things that bothered me, and it began to cloud my feelings about him, which in turn affected the way I heard the music. "Did he really write that song"....."Is he even playing on the track"....."Was that Melinda's decision or Brian's"....."Does Brian really give a damn"....."Is Brian just doing this for the money"....."How does Brian really feel about Mike - or Carl and Dennis for that matter"....."Should I continue to be sympathetic toward Brian or judge him for the way he really sounds".....and on and on. There are times when I wish I knew nothing about Brian, and, yet, his "story" does add some depth to some of the songs. I can remember my early days of listening to the Beach Boys and the pure joy that I experienced. While I still enjoy every Beach Boys' album - every one - the way Brian's solo career has been handled, manipulated, and "sold", has directly affected the way I view- and ultimately enjoy - his music.

I know that's not the way it's supposed to be. If we judged every musician by the type of person they really are, or the way they approached their career, well, we wouldn't enjoy too much music. And, it's funny, but among my favorite artists are Frank Sinatra, Jim Morrison, Johnny Cash, and The New York Dolls. What a bunch of swell guys they were, huh?

Cash was a good man at his core

SJS -- Quite right. But I will add --


All pop music, by its nature is handled, manipulated and sold. That's part of what makes it pop music. The image is often inseparable from the musical content -- and it has been since before the days of Elvis. Sometimes we can't actually appreciate the music until enough time has passed to dull the image -- witness the recent hailing of Abba.

Because the Beach Boys have made the public airing of their dirty laundry such an integral part of the careers, it does mean that any late-career promotion of Brian Wilson runs into difficulties. But it is the nature of the entertainment industry to simplify, to gloss over, to sensationalize and sometimes outright lie. All four have happened to Brian, and he's been a willing (sometimes knowingly, sometimes not) participant.

But so has virtually every other musician signed to a major label. The difference, as you suggest, is that we know so much more that the industry's image-making crashes up against what we've seen (or strongly suspected) first-hand. Don't think that because I'm an ardent Brian supporter and defender that it doesn't affect me, or that I'm ignorant of it. I'm painfully aware, and the closer you get to Brian and his folks the murkier the waters become.

So sometimes I drop out for awhile, and at times I don't listen to the music for several months. But the music always draws me back, and I try to listen to and appreciate it as a separate thing. And Brian -- and everyone else associated with the group, from Mike to Dave to band members from all of the groups -- keeps working and creating. Sometimes (as BW's recent appearances or Mike's touring resurgence) they can still surprise.

Wise words!

It was Kylie Minogue who once said "if you're part of a record company, I think to a degree it's fair to say that you're a manufactured product"

Yes, and I don't know why Brian's situation bothers me more than the rest. But I'll try to explain it anyway. :police:

One of the most endearing qualities in Brian's Beach Boys' music is honesty. I can literally hear it or feel it. I'll hear a song or a line and think, "That's so Brian." And I don't even know the guy! But you know what I mean....Even with an album like MIU, I can appreciate Brian's work. It wasn't Pet Sounds or Love You, but it was a true picture of where the guy was at that particular time - trying to make some nice, pleasant, Beach Boys-type music. And I appreciate(d) that. It might be a lightweight vibe, but it was a vibe nonetheless. It WAS a Brian Wilson vibe. It was a 35 year-old Brian Wilson sitting a piano and CREATING SONGS - in the moment. I felt he had an idea - his idea - of what he wanted to say musically, and did it, mostly if not entirely by himself. And that's all I ever wanted. What the record company or spinmeisters said after the fact in promoting the album (or Brian) meant nothing to me. THere wasn't very much anyway. I had a new Brian-involved Beach Boys' album and that's all I cared about. Whether you liked it or not, it was The Beach Boys, warts and all.

I don't feel that way about Brian Wilson, solo artist. I'm not gonna rehash all of it - you know how I feel. But, after Brian emerged from Landy's intervention in 1983, a helleuva lot changed - forever. Now, I don't hear that honesty, I don't feel the honesty. I don't hear Brian. I feel like I should apologize or something, but I just don't get it. Now, the spin does bother me. I DO care what it is being said and sold. Like you said, over time, maybe it won't matter. I sincerely hope you're right!

Some good points made and perhaps it being a family thing does make things more heated. There are unqiue circumstances, but but what I was trying to convey can be applied to any band, or show, or genre. Jan and Dean and the Beatles as well as all my examples were subjects I used because I am fans of those things and have seen real examples.

I guess I will explain my own experience. I became a fan in 1988 not because of Kokomo but because of seeing An American Band on TV. The Smile stuff, and the Dennis material really stood out. I bought Endless Summer liked it a lot and took it from there. I began as a full fan of the band from 1961-75 but I wasn't crazy about who they were currently. Then I read Priore and Leaf and began to hate Mike myself. I guess combined with the piss poor material they were churning out I thought for several years that Brian and Dennis only had the talent. Then I saw the Beach Boys 1993 box set tour. Mike (who was cool to me at the show), Carl, Al, and Bruce did a hell of a job and it was then that I realized how talented they all were. I still didn't like Mike too much but when he won the 1994 lawsuit I realized he did actually co-write so many of those early songs I felt I understood his role and maybe his anger more.

Then I began my own research on found a lot of fault with the anti group information and I really began to think for myself. I guess the last straw was seeing Mike booed during a film on Brian's first solo tour. It made me feel strongly that he has gotten a bad deal. He's been an ass at times, but he really was part of what made the Beach Boys who they were. In the last ten years I have really try to see the ups and downs of each individual musically and personally. So for me it's been an ever evolving thing. By getting to know them a little and the people around them I was able to give myself a better perspective and funnily enough more distance to observe the whole picture.

So... you're discussing and dismissing something you have no direct experience of. Thought so.  ;D

Oh, and they've been in the Philly area multiple times over the past few years. Try a little harder.

Brian has changed so much since 1983 and it is disturbing in some ways. The closer you get the worse it seems but again I try to take a step back with the music and simply say "do I like it" or "do I not like it". I like the Paley tapes. TLOS, half of the 88 , BWPS, and even the Xmas for what it is, but I don't like his other solo work or post 82 work much at all. I do feel better hearing or watching the old stuff in many ways, but when I hear good music it's hard for me to put it down because the circumstances behind it aren't ideal. I can't know what goes on day to day with Brian, I don't like a lot of what I do know, but I do hope he's happy as possible given his circumstances.

I think in Brian a lot of us mourn age and wasted potential. He has changed much since '83, yes, and he's also three decades older. A man in his early 40s is not a man in his late 60s. Even if he were unaffected by drugs and mental illness, he would be less vital than he was.

Things change, and the past cannot be recaptured. What we had once, we cannot have again.

Okay, let me set the record straight, YES, I have been to a Mike Love "Beach Boy" concert.  I enjoyed the concert and was excited when Mike, in my mind, looked right at me and winked, when he sang Barbara Ann.  It was good and I give Mike credit for co writing so many hits and his contribution to the band.  But all of the guys contributed.  Mike just seems the only one who feels he can call himself the Beach Boys.  Brian and his band sounded dead on, like all the original songs, without Mike.  Brian did not and does not act like he's ALL THAT!  Mike always wanted to be thought of as the sex symbol of the band, I think that is probably one of the many reasons Mike had no use for Dennis.  Years ago I read an article on a Beach Boy concert, as I recall the reviewer loved the music but said that Mike tried so hard to get the ladies attention that he looked and danced like a "constipated Mick Jagger".  I think that was about right.  Other artists that went on without their group did  not take the name with them.  {Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson etc. }  The Beach Boys would have been The Beach Boys with or without Mike.  They all added to the sound, look, and success.  But, without Brian the Beach Boys would have never been.

I just can't agree with that!! Weren't Mike and Al the guys who were pushing Brian to start a band in the first place? Wasn't Dennis the guy who suggested they write a song about surfing? Wasn't it Dennis' lifestyle they all envied and were tryin to emulate in song? Wasn't it Carl who was a guitar playng Chuck Berry obsessive? Brian was a 4 Freshman guy (and a rock n roll guy) Wasn't Mike a great bass singer, and didn't Brian have a killer falsetto? Didn't those two elements compliment each other magically?

THESE were the elements that gave birth to The Beach Boys! Not Brian all alone!!!!

As for Mike being jealous of Dennis over the attention/sex symbol nonesense: Do we really think Mike is the only guy in rock history to have such issues with another band member???? Honestly? And the guy was a great frontman, constipated Mick Jagger, or not! Let's face it, (and YES, the music was the THING) no one else on a Beach Boy stage was much to look at ...... well, aside from Dennis.

Hell, I love both the 60s Who and 60s Stones, but can't stand either band's 70s work...I love Syd Barrett, but have a huge disdain for Waters and Gilmour... Sorry, but some of us just can't accept the entire package...we'd prefer to pick and choose!

I hate to say this, but "you either like a group or you don't" sounds Bush-like.  I get the factionlization with groups like the BB. What appeals to one person doesn;t necesarily appeal to someone else.  To suggest that just because one doesn't like a particular BB that they aren't a true fan is almost offensive. 

Mike did do good work during the 60's but I don;t like a lot of what he's done since the 70's. His most overrated talent is his so-called commercial savvy. If he was good at that aspect of their career, Kokomo would have been the start of a string of 80's/90's hits for the BB instead of a fluke. Pointing that out shouldn't be a fan crime.

Fair enough, I suppose, but where then is the string of Brian hits from Good Vibrations onward? We can't simply blame Mike!

You missed Rob's point. He was saying Mike is supposedly renowned for commercial savvy. Brian has been renowned for his artistry -- which isn't always rewarded by commercial success.

I'm not talking about Brian, I am specifically addressing Mike.  What I was saying is that Mike's sense of what connected to the masses got worse and worse the older he got yet he always insisted that only he knew what sold. Of course that's what you get when you are a follower rather than a bold risk taker (something Mike was never going to be).

But since you asked, I'll give you my opinion, take it for what it's worth. I do believe he lost a lot of confidence when his new direction was questioned. Even if one questions the Priore/Leaf version of the SMiLE story and see Smiley as Brian beining innovative, one might also conclude that Smiley's lack of sucess was a confidence crusher. In any event, risk takers are, generally, confident. By his own admission, Brian wasn't trying to knock people out by the late 60's. He had become, by whatever standards he had, a follower. As he aged and deteriorated, I think he lost just enough of his talent that even if he wanted to be bold and daring, he couldn't do it.  Don't get me wrong,  unambitious Brian can still be a blast. But let's not kid ourselves. Friends, wonderful that it is will never knock out people in the way that Pet Sounds does.

EDIT: Clay got it.

Perhaps I did miss the point, but just who renowns Mike for his commercial savvy? Whatever noise he himself makes about it shouldn't count as "renown" .... And I'm sure Brian's never minded having a big hit himself! Every musician (well, there are exceptions) wants to be successful be it commercially or artisticaly. Though I'll make the leap and say the real jackpot is to be successful in both ways. And I'll bet both Brian and Mike would agree. I also see nothing wrong with what we assume is Mike's idea of commercial and successful. Uh, does he mean the awe inspiring string of successes both commercially and artistically The Beach Boys scored for such a stretch? If so, who the hell can argue with him? And Kokomo a fluke? Who cares? A hit is a hit!

And Robmac: I completely agree that Brian can still be a blast when he wants to. To me, the man has a great sense of humor that really shines through at times. I think we all tend to take him too seriously! I don't mean too seriously as an artist, but just too.... of portent! I dunno!

There are many people in the BB world who champion Mike's "commcerial savvy".  Bruce, to give one example. Terry Melcher, to give another one.  

Erik: Love You is the perfect Brian as a blast album.

Ha, shouldn't both Bruce and Terry fall under the "employees of Mike" catagory?  :p

Yes, yes, LOVE YOU is a riot from start to finish. There is so much Brian that is pure joy despite the circumstances. Shortnin Bread, for instance, gets written off as a drug induced horror, but it's hell of a lot of fun, and you know Dennis had a blast with that bass vocal!

Yes, claymcc, I think ALL of us on this board experience the feelings you listed above, in varying degrees of course. I think the length of time we have been BW/BB fans is a big factor in the degree, also. For myself, I've been knocked down a peg with each release starting with The Beach Boys 1985 album. There haven't been too many upward spikes, just the occasional moment that keeps the spark alive. For newer fans, they still have a reserve of patience. They haven't been through enough "Brian Is Back" campaigns yet! :-D

That being said, you hit on part of the points that I attempted to make with my above posts, and I don't think I articulated them well enough. Or maybe I did....You stated  "he has changed much since '83", "A man in his early 40's is not a man in his late 60's", "Things change, and the past cannot be recaptured", and finally, "What we had once, we cannot have again". EXACTLY!!!

I'm not specifically singling you out, but, then don't tell me that Brian COULD finish something as brilliant as SMiLE, that he could succeed as a solo artist (like he might've been able to do 40 years ago), continue to call him a genius (present tense), or dare I say that he is capable on finishing a composition on the same level as George Gershwin. It's like people want it both ways. On one hand, they will say that it's unrealistic to expect this and that out of Brian. Then they'll go on to defend the hell out of him when he's fairly criticized. On a side note, if this current tour was so impressive, then what does that tell you about the previous 9-10 years of shows? Do you feel cheated, like maybe he was holding back, didn't really care about communicating with his audience, didn't really care about bantering with his bandmates, didn't really care about playing the piano? Did he need to be reprimanded by someone to put out more, to give a better effort? Teleprompter: Sing this song nicely, Brian. I was ripped for the analogy, but it does make his previous shows look more like karaoke night, doesn't it?

"What we had once, we cannot have again." I know many people on this board think that I support a Beach Boys' reunion for that reason, and am not in touch with reality. And that would be absolutely false. Conversely, I'm looking for something NEW. The solo Brian bores me. I'm looking for the honest Brian - good or bad. I'm looking for some real emotion. I want to see how Brian relates to his cousin and friends, musicians closer to his age. I want to see him in a different setting than this planting in front of a piano. This potential Beach Boys lineup intrigues me; I think it has a lot of promise. And, what I think I would really like about the return of The Beach Boys is that it would be ABSENT of hype. Most expectations would be low. I guess that's when Mike would step in to raise them. ;D

Brian's last top 10 hit ever was Good Vibrations. He came up with the next bunch of material - a top 12 single and that was it - before being questioned by anyone. I wouldn't mind if he wrote 25 #1 hits after '66, but he didn't, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I just hope no one felt clobbered by this simple statement of facts.  :)

Ha! I'm glad someone else made that crack! :-D

You have a copy of Love You with "Shortenin' Bread" on it ? My man, your financial woes are ended - you can name your price !  ;D

Well about The Who and The Stones I agree to some extent (although I would say it was the eighties when I really lose interest), but that doesn't mean I get pissed off at someone who likes Ron Wood or Kenny Jones. All I'm trying to say is that I'm tired of things like Mike bashing for the sake of doing it.

Time passes. We age. Things change. We can't recapture the past.

This is all true.

But neither are we powerless. Neither are we without resources, from within ourselves and from those who love and care for us. And while vitality may fade, wisdom may be gained.

For while, as I just posted, we find much to mourn in Brian Wilson's story -- for it is a story that we tell and retell for our own purposes -- there is much to celebrate. For he has finally been able to experience, however fitfully, the love of audiences. He has been able to employ and befriend a band that summons his favorite sounds with ease. And he has been able to, however aided, write and sing into his seventh decade.

These are not small things for a shy, damaged man. These are not small things for a proud, willful man. And Brian Wilson is all of those.

Is this a happy ending? For all the reasons just mentioned, sure. It is a tragic ending? For the wasted potential, and the twists and turns we have yet to see or know, perhaps.

But while there is limitless sadness in Brian's story, in the past and in the present, there is also joy that we can barely fathom. That joy is in the music and in the potential of a human being to transcend, if only for a few fleeting moments, his damaged vessel of a body to create something new.

I'm not going to suddenly agree with SJS. I understand his perspective. I think he's misinterpreted some of what I've written, but that's his prerogative -- and perhaps my fault for not writing more clearly. The unpleasantness of this story -- the BB/BW story -- can be hard to stomach sometimes, and it can well up in all of us. But I choose to see the joy.

That's all from me for awhile.

An individual piece of work, or even a specific action, is open for crtique but what bores me is kind of a non specific Brian-good Mike-evil deal.  I'm not saying anyone must like everything, but I try to respect the people I follow at least as much as I would anyone else. Again I think Mike has made some bad moves, but that doesn't make me feel I have the right to rip him apart. Anyone I do mention distate for in the Beach Boys world it stems from personal experience. Even that I preface with saying I don't really know the person because no one in the Beach Boys personal circle is part of my day to day life.

Has to be said, the Brian good/Beach Boys bad concept can be laid squarely at the feet of David Leaf... and 'fess up time, I subscribed to it for many year. Then, as I got to know a little more about the inner workings and personalities involved, I realised that nothing is that simple. Brian has been hideously manipulated, but you have to understand that he is also a master manipulator in his own right. The Beach Boys are not, as one highly regarded Brianista (who should know better) has stated in print "Brian & the four dwarves". No heroes, no villains, just mid-westerners made good. Maybe one day we'll all come to realise this.

And then we'll have world peace.

Perfect echo of my sentiments. Thanks for summing it up so well.

I'm not sure about that in all honesty but I can see both sides of the argument.

I can understand people saying that as The BBs were such good singers, they could have been having hits through the 80s and 90s. However how many bands or artists from the 60s did that actually happen to? The Bee Gees certainly (who differ from The BBs in that they were still in their original form) but very few others.

The way I would look at it though is that the band did well to be as successful as they were and continue to be. Brian and Mike were the only band members who were capable of writing hits and so it would have been reasonable to expect after Brian pulled back in the mid-60s that the group would just fizzle out over the next few years. So for 15 Big Ones to sell so many (as it was awful), Almost Summer to be a reasonable hit, Mike's America cassette thing to do pretty well, Wipeout to be a massive success and Kokomo to go to number one constitues a pretty fair run I think. Let's face it, Mike was essentially turd polishing a lot of the time and he proved himself to be adept at it.   ;D

The fact that the band essentially became an oldies act on stage obviously proved successful as well. I'm not saying that it's something that I'd have wanted to happen at all but the group continued to be successful right around the world and Mike and Bruce still being able to play 150 concerts a year shows how successful the image was in promoting a good night out.

Absolutely. My position has evolved as well. Its hard to understand the hardcore fans who have this entrenched and tired Leafian perspective, considering how much new info has come to light in the last decade. PLEASE...EVOLVE!! What ticks me off are the ones, including journalists who constantly say Brian didn't have much support within the band. That's absolute crap. He had two brothers who worshipped him, one who would lay down in front of a train for him...and some neighbors and friends who did exactly what he asked of them...and a cousin who has managed to get under just about everybody's skin, but was the most prolific and productive collaborator he ever had. Brian not only had fantastic voices to use, but he also had musicians in his band that were versatile and passionate. The whole give all the credit to the Brian and Wrecking Crew thing has been proven to be so OVER-BLOWN. Yes the CREW were great, yes they contributed wondrous tracks...NO they did not play on the majority of the material. Give them credit for Pet Sounds, give them credit for a bunch of Smile...give them credit for Rhonda, Cal Girls, GV's...and the other singles and LP tracks they helped Brian cut...but the Beach Boys were a BAND that PLAYED...they played on more than 20 of the BB's iconic top 40 hits...they played on tons of killer LP tracks...they played with the Wrecking Crew, and without. They brought in other players and told them what to play in later years...and they played themselves on a ton of later things too. Brian is beyond incredible...what he did just blows me and anyone with a soul away. But he had a GREAT support system. Oh Yeah...they were flawed people...they were not virtuoso musicians but they made that music we all love. Please give them credit for it. World peace can't get here soon enough for me.

Nobody is a total hero or villain. Brian evidently was supported to a degree that would have been sufficient for 90% of people....but Brian isn't 90% of people. Sure Mike can be an arse...I bet Brian can too. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, most of what seems to have happened down the decades can be understood.

It does seem that a few specific incidents of Mike not supporting Brian's musical ideas/direction stick in people's minds (including Brian's)...and that's understandable. On the other hand, as much as I love Brian's work and believe that it taps directly into my heart in a way few artists/composers can achieve....I really understand what Mike meant when he said something like 'don't mess with the formula'...I can understand why Mike would be sceptical of the more artistic material.

Every band in the history of music has had arguments.

Hear, hear for the expanding enlightenment.

But in the end, everyone is entitled to their own conclusions. Whether or not they are popular. Not everyone is going to be like us and know these things. Not trying to side with anyone here, but just saying.

yikes ... perfectly stated!  the sound of the beach boys is "girl don't tell me" - and its one of their most perfect creations

Actually, the sound of "Girl Don't Tell Me" is The Beatles, specifically "Ticket To Ride"  ;D ...but I know what you mean!

Yes! Doesn't your copy? Side two opens with Shortenin Bread then goes into the mini-suite of I Got a Friend/Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again/Carry Me Home, then concludes with Airplane and Love Is A Woman!  :smokin

Oh right... that pressing. Tasmanian, isn't it ?

Really, AGD, we shouldn't blame Mr. Leaf alone. I think the real source is Derek Taylor. If Brian is the genius -- and then the genius retreats -- well, we look for cause and effect, don't we? People would be loath to blame Brian's brothers, and Al is so inoffensive as to disappear. Who's left? Mike -- who has often been outspoken about the need for commercial appeal.

If Leaf hadn't put the pieces together in this way, someone else would have. The tale of the auteur beset by folks who don't support him is a powerful one, and it doesn't take much to lodge in the minds of fans (Orson Welles, anyone?). History is history, and complicated. Stories are powerful and simple. We prefer stories to history.

WOW!!!! PERFECTLY PUT!

AMEN!

Right. Williams and Anderle were the first ones to point the finger toward Mike long before Leaf came into the picture.

I agree. Leaf may have been the prophet, but you had to have some "real quality" among a certain fraction of the fanbase.

I think mostly everyone begins buying into the Brian good / Mike bad myth. The difference is most are capable of outgrowing it.  :)

Onward with the enlightenment!!!!!!   

To this day, Mike continues to publicly express a desire to cowrite with Brian.  Again.

Any shithouse family therapist will tell you that NO ONE member of any family is totaly responsible for the dysfunction.  It is a complex mix of factors and codependence.

True... but he did it first. DT gave Brian the genius tag, but back in the day Mike was viewed as corny, embarrassing rather than flat out evil, as was later posited. Which view, btw, is apparently still the official line in Brian's organisation.

Well bear in mind that, in the eyes of Brian's organization, they just got over a big food fight with Mike a couple years ago and I'll bet that still rankles - some folks take these things to heart, fairly or not.  Not taking sides on that - it's just one of the realities reunion-wishers have to remember.

My own not-so-educated prediction is that PBS will get them all in a room together for an afternoon, a la the Beatles Anthology, they'll use snippets from that throughout the show and it will most likely be pleasant to see (or they won't show it).   Some nice reminiscing like at the Capitol roof thing a year or so ago.  The only singing will be if they have a piano in the room and Brian goes over and starts bashing away as he is wont to do.  Beyond that, don't expect much.  Certainly nothing organized will be following it - I hate to say it but the BB are like Creedence or the Rascals or so many other long-gone bands where the surviving members simply don't like each other enough to put themselves through any such agita short of being legally obliged to do so.  (Or like the Band, where the survivors want nothing to do with Robbie Robertson, for their own reasons).

Time flies...The Capitol Rooftop reunion was Three and a Half years ago.
http://www.thejonstebbins.com/reunion.html

Right you are Jon - I was conflating that with the Brian-only TLOS pictures taken on the roof last year.

Wow, Brian's "organization" is starting to sound like some sort of West Coast Mafia!

Just how involved would Brian even have to be in a reunion? He's made out to be both a helpless circus bear AND a master manipulator, which gets confusing.

Say the Mike, Al, Bruce (or Mike/Bruce) camps approached Brian's organization, which I would assume that under no circumstances would entail actually being in the same room with Brian, and presented them a reunion idea with all it's various terms/conditions? Would his orgranization shoot it down outright or actually consider it? And if they liked the idea would they simply tell Brian where and when to be and hand him a script? It's so hard to even imagine what the situation might be!

I still say, merda-it! Just throw s typical "Brian and Band" show (call it an American Masters presentation or whatever you want) but just have Mike/Bruce/Al and Brian up at the frontline singing! Simple as that. Brian's band gets to be there and play! Mike Al and Bruce should be happy as hell to have a band of that caliber backing them up!!!

Brian has been asked repeatedly by reporters (including me!) about a reunion the past couple of months. If he wanted to get around his "organization" -- if he really, really wanted to do it -- he could have said yes. After all, he managed to take all of 2006 off (pretty much) by talking about it in interviews in '05. It wouldn't be hard. Instead, he's pretty consistently said no.

My guess (if I had to peer into his mind) is that BW is pretty conflicted about it, and when there's conflict he generally runs away unless those around him think it's a good idea. I would be surprised if they think it's a good idea, given that Brian has already pretty much committed his schedule for the next two years -- 2010, finish and release Gershwin, tour it in the fall; 2011 record and tour a Disney songs album.

I'll bet you're absolutely right!

I honestly don't even think a reunion would be a good idea. The chances of something coming off without a major meltdown or psychodrama seem slim to none. Let's face it, The Beach Boys are a done deal. The Endless Harmony special felt like the final word on the band (to me, at least) but that was 10 years ago, and we all want more. These guys shouldn't have to (and in some cases CAN'T) keep on giving!

That being said, I don't fall into the group who think it would be harmful to Brian, or necessarily some horrible thing if it happened. Brian seems to be proud of the Beach Boys as a group. Maybe doubtful about some of them personally -- and that whole thing I said about stories vs. history earlier? It happens even with our own history. Brian probably believes some version of his life that is a story -- as does Mike, as does Bruce. None of those stories are exactly true -- but they feel true, which is sometimes more important.

I like the hanging out in a room and talking and playing the piano, maybe strumming on some guitars. Like the Anthology, or even like the hotel tape (or the campfire sessions). Everyone could make fun of everyone else, tell some stories, and maybe have some closure.

And then they could write one more big hit single ...

I keep seeing this vision when I think of Brian and Melinda talking about a reunion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU&feature=related

That being said, he had a twinkle in his eye at the rooftop reunion. I think he enjoyed the get together because it was not a recording or concert. Just a chance to reflect. Same as him and Mike on the bus during the SAStripes doco. They seem to bounce jokes off each other well when the pressure is off.

 I can well imagine a round-table discussion with other members as part of a career reflective DVD. 

Can you expand on that?

Do I really need to??

There are plenty of "can o' worms" laying around waiting to be opened when it comes to The Beach Boys!

Truer words were never spoken!

Finally, someone gets it!!!

Brian already has enough sh*t on his shelf, and the fragile ties between Michael and Al and now Michael and David make the situation less hopeful. I'm cautiously optimistic but our feet need to stay on the ground. Keep in mind, we've had a Smile box set dangled in front of our noses since 1988. We should be USED to disappointment and into a strict sense of jadedness and cynicism by now regarding GREAT THINGS in the Beach Boys world in 2009, let alone 2011.  But if the paycheck is good, perhaps?

Of course, the reunion could always take place on December 28, 2012...

All Brian Wilson has to do is put two letters together - O and K - and you'd be amazed how quickly the various relationships become settled. :police:

It would make for the best PR the band's had in years!

And something else to blame on Mike!

This would be especially cool if the world ended due to a second ice age. This way the cover of "Keepin The Summer Alive" could at last become reality!

And the cover of the Keepin' The Summer Alive album would become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And the world of ice will be ruled by evil overload Mike Love and his army of non-surfing hodad monsters, while good Prince Brian will be locked in a dungeon with the secrets of the universe.

Wow, you just likened the Beach Boys' saga to the Amber saga! Impressive. :)

IF, on and off, Brian isn't keen on a reunion maybe it has nothing to do with the remaining Boys but has to do with his brothers not being there. MAYBE on some level he would love to do it but on another level there is an emotional stumbling block.

Well said.

What would make me happiest isn't really a concert or a documentary (though I wouldn't complain!)

what if the guys just headed over to Al's ranch for the afternoon, had a few beers, no cameras, no reporters...just hanging out as buddies, reminiscing, maybe playing some old records...

us fans wouldn't find out until a few months later at best...but we might notice a friendlier tone in interviews, perhaps a surprise Brian cameo at a Mike and Bruce show! 

and we'd know that after all the problems, all the drugs, all the lawsuits, a couple guys could still hang out and, to paraphrase that old Beach Boy's song, "Be Chill"

I fan can dream, right? 

Yes, yes and yes.

They should do it like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_yoEEN0tBQ&feature=player_embedded#at=70 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_yoEEN0tBQ&feature=player_embedded#at=70)


In fact I think it would be a cool ending if you have a documentary with the guys sitting together in a room, having fun and making music and afterwards you'll see them leaving the room, each heading their own way again. No reunion-concert (although that would be nice), just clips from their individual shows. You know what I mean ?

As far as a doc is concerned, I think the BBs deserve the same treatment Scorsese (sp?) gave Dylan.

Hear, hear! :o

Personally I'm still waiting for Mike to deliver his pet project that he mentioned way back in Goldmine, 1992.

A documentary featuring America's band on tour, starring The Beach Boys' cheerleaders! The music would provide the backdrop to the girls rehearsing and auditioning, getting their costumes fitted. "Don't Worry Baby" plays in the backround while the girls are getting made-up for "Be True To Your School". Cameras the cut to them on the bus, flying in the plane, and backstage before a show. Cue to one of the girls on the phone to her partner. Basically a view of The Beach Boys through the eyes of the cheerleaders.

It's sure to sell a million units.

I remember reading that article at the time, but not that particular brainstorm. I guess there really are at least TWO geniuses in (one of) the old lineup(s)!

I was beginning to think that I was the only person who read it!

What about a "reunion lite?"

I'm thinking of a new online single by Brian, written by Wilson/Love, with a special guest vocal by Mike Love.

I'd take whatever I can get, and this would certainly be better than nothing... and it would open up a big hall of 'what will this lead to' for all of us to discuss...  :)

Yeah, we can dream  ::)

I'M DREAMIN'!!!