The Smiley Smile Message Board

The more I listen to 15BO, the more I hear the makings of a Brian Wilson concept album. I think the one oldies/one originals double LP idea would've made this a possibly more well rounded and evenly balanced project, well potentially at least. But I dunno, 15BO is an album that has continually grown on me and I think if (as with so many other BB-related projects) Brian Wilson was given full reign, it would've been more interesting. Anyone else have any thoughts on this or know of any interviews where they talk about it as a double record

In all honesty, I think that 15BO is absolutely wretched and I think Brian was given much too free a reign. After the talents that the other band members had shown on the previous albums there is no way that they should have allowed Brian to become sole producer again. If the band had pooled their resources then they could still have come up with something decent. Cutting almost all of the covers, Once in my Life apart, and including a couple of Dennis numbers, Glow Crescent Glow, maybe Come to the Sunshine etc. would have helped. Letting Carl and Dennis do a lot of the production work wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

I love 15BO. That said, the BBs are the only band in the world that can, with me, produce this feeling with an album like that. Technically, it's good, the performances are of a high standard. The production is OK, with the sole exception of Suzie Cincinnati, it sound muffled and causes earaches with me. Everyone's In Love is sickly sweet. But Had To Phone You is ace. As is Just Once In My Life. Blueberry Hill: great Spector sound. It's OK: the Last Truly Great Beach Boys Ode To Beach Life.

Yes, it is very inconsistent, it 'does not flow'. The sleeve is awful (well, I like it, but the general consensus has it otherwise, and I can understand why - did they get funding from the Montreal Olympics Committee?). The Talahassee Lassie fragment is terrible.

Dennis is great on In The Still. Brian and Carl do the best of all BBs covers with JOIML. The TM Song is one of the most underrated of BBs songs, because of the theme.

My resume: I love 15BBs and would not want to be without it.

I'm not sure I could disagree with you more.  :)

The cover of Rock and Roll Music is poorly produced and Mike's lead is too nasal.
It's OK is nice enough but not a classic.
The same could be said for Had to Phone Ya and it pales in comparison with some of the Sunflower, Surf's Up and Holland stuff.
Chapel of Love - Abysmal.
Everyone's in Love with You - A bit too smooth but OK.
Talk to Me - Pleasant Enough.
That Same Song - Woefully underproduced.
TM Song - Abysmal. Not due to the subject matter but due to the fact that it's dire.
Palisades Park - Pretty enjoyable.
Susie Cincinnati - I quite like this one but it had already been released and doesn't fit for obvious reasons.
A Casual Look - Mediocre.
Blueberry Hill - Not too bad.
Back Home - Again very poor production and some dodgy lyrics too.
In the Still of the Night - One of the band's worst ever songs. Plodding and dull musically with an awful lead from Dennis.
Just Once in my Life - Very good closer which puts all that went before it into the shade.

Wanna go outside?  :police:

I'm pretty fond of 15BO myself, but I gotta admit I'd be embarrased to play it for "non-harcores" (same with Love You).  And the reasons are Brian's hoarse croaky off-key voice and the "cardboard & crayons" production values.  Not on all cuts, but definitely on several. 

Brian was given full reign for several reasons, one of which would be the fact that he has always been viewed as the goose that laid the golden egg.  An album without Brian does not sell...

Marty, in your opinion, do you think Brian and the guys resented that idea?

If you take the seven originals, they definetly don't fit together. I wonder how fragmented the sessions were.

Why be embarrassed? I've played Love You to quite a few non-hardcores and most of them obviously enjoyed it (and that, by the way, includes "Solar System"). It's actually pretty much the same with Smiley Smile.

To me, "Had To Phone Ya" is THE one masterpiece (in less than two minutes no less) on this album. "It's OK" is just OK and most of the rest is dreck. I honestly always skip this album on my two-fer to get to Love You which I love all of the way through. Just like the next two-fer where I skip MIU to get to LA. Just my own personal tastes. But it is fascinating to see how many different opinions we all have regarding BB music. Compare to say the Beatles where we know everything they did post-Help! was perfection, right?

Anxiously awaiting my spanking... :hat

Actually, Please Please Me is my favorite Beatles album.

IF Brian had managed to record more covers that were on the level of Palisades Park or Just Once in my life --

and

IF Brian had managed to pull together songs from the Caribou sessions (like Good Timin) to complement Had to Phone Ya and It's OK

and

IF Dennis had contributed a couple of good tracks on which you could hear other members of the group

THEN you could have a good double album version of 15 Big Ones. And I think that's what the group wanted.

But Brian did not respond well to the pressure and at a certain point said "it's done," when it clearly could have used more work. Very much like the sessions for GIOMH, if reports are correct.

That being said, for devoted fans there is much to appreciate in 15BO, just as there is in GIOMH (AGD excepted). But the albums are definitely not what they could have been, and definitely not what the respective bands had hoped for.

I think the idea of Brian being the goose that laid the golden egg was hard on all of them.  Imagine being Brian and having every record label basically demand his involvement- asking that Brian write something like 80% of the material, for example.  This says to Brian, "you have to be an active Beach Boy, whether you want to or not".  This says to the other guys, "your stuff won't sell, so don't bother".  Dennis and Carl, good songwriters, never wrote a hit.  Nobody but Brian wrote hits... and Brian himself didn't write much in the way of hits after the '60's were through.  So you have Brian, who doesn't really want to be in the band, being forced... and the guys who want to be in the band being told their stuff is crap.  I think they all were unhappy.

I think of what it must've been like to be Brian back then.  You've got a studio in your own house, so anytime you even go NEAR the piano, the vultures swoop in to drag a song from you.  It's no wonder that eventually he just stayed in his room.  Then with Landy, you've got EVERY aspect of your life being controlled, and Gene telling you that you have to write something like a song a day or 20 songs a week or whatever it was.  Thus you have Brian pulling songs out of his ass that Landy didn't know he'd written years before, like "Back Home".  It's no wonder Brian recycled songs, he had Landy's goons with their heel on his throat to make him write.  I can imagine his thinking - "sh*t, I need three more songs before I can eat, maybe I can write a song about brushing my teeth or flushing the toilet"...

The 15 Big Ones era was fascinating.  Did any of them actually believe that "Brian is Back" crap?  Brian was being forced back, reluctantly, so I think the only control Brian felt that he had was to do a half-assed job.  Thus the vocals were rough, the production a bit shoddy, save for a few tracks.  It was as if Brian was saying "you can make me write and produce and sing, but YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO A GOOD JOB!"  And then, just to prove that he was still capable of doing a good job, he whips off "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling" in one day.  Man, if everybody would just have left him to do whatever he wanted in the studio, we may have gotten some great stuff.  Then again, with all the other issues going on, he could just as easily have died in that period...

The other band members, particularly Dennis, had the opposite situation.  Dennis could go in the studio whenever he liked, and nobody paid much attention.  He was under no pressure to come up with material, and if he wrote something great, it might go practically unnoticed.  CBS didn't say "we're not signing you unless Dennis is all over every record".  There were records almost totally devoid of Dennis involvement, just as with Brian.  The masses didn't revolt.

I think Dennis and Brian might have both been fairly F'd up by all this.  Just my opinion...

Not sure that AGD deserves to be singled out for GIOMH. Plenty of fans at the time commented on how bad it was and. despite the good feeling towards Brian, lots of critics gave it scathing reviews. I think there is a difference between a devoted fan and a fan who has their blinkers on.

Some people liked it, some people didn't. Liking it does not mean you have blinkers on, it simply means your tastes are different. And for goodness' sake -- I was comparing it to 15BO, which was for many years one of the least-loved BB albums. It's not like I'm calling it the second coming of Pet Sounds.

AGD was a prominent critic of GIOMH on this board and elsewhere. Given that he has published a well-regarded book about the BB's recordings, has contributed liner notes to the Brother twofers and is an active and devoted member of BB/BW fan communities, his opinions carry quite a bit of weight. Citing that is not unfair, it's simply true. What's more, his formidable critique is an important part of the debate and history of this board. It's certainly persuaded me to examine my feelings about the record.

(That being said, I generally stand by my previous -- perhaps over-extensive -- writings on the album. It's marred by wobbly vocals, poor song selection and insane sequencing. But I also think it's an album of honest music from Brian, with some inspiring moments and some darn good songs. Yes, he may have not cared much about making it. But from reports, he didn't care much about making 15BO either. And I can find things to enjoy in both.)

Ok and I don't want to get into anything over it. I think there are different definitions of what being a devoted fan means though...

15BO, as well as being a poor album (not just a poor BBs album), represents the beginning of the end for the band. Terrible production from Brian as he was either unwilling or unable to do any better and depressing that the other band members agreed to release it in its final form.

I agree that GIOMH is an honest album but that's not necessarily a good thing. It shows that Brian couldn't (or didn't want to) write new songs, that his voice is very limited nowadays, that he couldn't be bothered to do decent productions and that he would rather get it over with as quickly as possible (and the lyrics are also godawful). The only positive thing to come out of it I guess though was that it made Brian's management see that his band should play the lead role in the recordings that he's made since.

Nicko, I notice that each post you've made on this board has been to criticize something. Perhaps you would enjoy writing about things that you liked, rather than snarking at things that you don't. Just a thought.

15BO led to Love You, so it's okay in my book. The problem is that the band then didn't follow through with Brian's aspirations after that point (given sales, rough production etc).

GIOMH led to Brian's folks realizing that they couldn't force an album out of him, and that he needed some folks to ensure quality control. And that led to the Xmas album and TLOS and Gershwin. So it's okay in my book too. And the folks ensuring quality control are helping Brian be the best that he can be today -- not forcing him to create summertime hits.

Not at all. I've made hundreds of posts but re-registered after changing email accounts and computers. Lots have been positive.

And it's the fact that I appreciate so much of the band's music that makes me hate 15BO. The band had done some great work on their previous few albums and threw it all away on this mess of a record.

I think it's just that we come at it from different perspectives though (and this is in no way a criticism). You are obviously more of a Brian fan rather than a fan of all of the band members or the group as a whole. Not saying you dislike them but a lot of your posts do feature not so subtle gigs at the other guys. So I can appreciate that for you 15BO was worth it as it led to Love Lou. But for me, Love You shows again how much confidence that the band members had lost in themselves. There are some really good songs on that album but there are also some dire lyrics and terrible vocals. In the early 70s there is no way that the group would have agreed to release it.

Not sure about the band not followng through with Brian's aspirations. What were they exactly? The band did pull together on LA but by that point Brian had obviously fallen away...

Well said.  There really is a different perspective from those who see Brian as more important then the Beach Boys as opposed to those who see him as a vital part of the Beach Boys. Not that I'm putting anyone down on either side, it's just that for some Brian's work is held to another level.

My two cents is that the Beach Boys should not have focused so much on Brian in 1976 especally when it became clear that his voice was gone. What he was doing was below previous standards and there were many reasons. I disagree that in the home studio years his work with the group was forced. I think it was more of a "I'll work when and if I want to" and as the years went along he wanted to work less. Still when the mood struck him I find that most everything he did was full fledged brillance that is until 1976. Worn down mentally and forced by Landy and the others to record  he simply didn't have the choice or the werwithal to refuse to show up anymore. This goes for the stage too. I'm not saying that he previously always saw eye to eye with the others but comparted to 1976 and after the Beach Boys had been fairly amiable.

Away from the error of putting Brian in chage lies the fac that what was released in 1976-77 wasn't the best of what was cut. So could 15 Big Ones have been better as 30 Big Ones. The answer is no becuase there weren'tmany good masters to pick from. Had Come Go With Me, Angel Come Home, Sea Cruise, 10,000 Years Ago, Don't Fight The Sea, Michael Rowed The Boat Ashore, joined say  Rock and Roll Music (hot mix), It's OK, Had to Phone Ya , Everyone's in Love with You, That Same Song and
Back Home I think it would have been a nice half oldies hald new songs LP that was at least respectable if not up to previous standards.
 
As far as a follow up ok put Brian in charge but wait for there to be enough solid songs. I say Marilyn Rovell,Sherry She Needs Me, You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin', Lazy Lizzie, I'll Bet He's Nice, The Night Was So Young, My Diane, Ruby Baby,Everybody Wants To Live, Deep Purple, Life Is For The Living, It's Over Now, and Still I Dream Of It. would have made for a Love You type album that was better then Love You.
Of course both these line ups are subjective but I guess the point I am trying to make is that haste really put the Beach Boys in a bad light.
All this is my subjective taste
 

Nicko -- Quite good comments, and my apologies for not recognizing your earlier postings.

In terms of following up with Brian's aspirations -- I was referring to the Adult Child album. Brian decided to follow up Love You -- which in some ways was his attempt to recapture a certain innocent, whimsical quality found in the earliest Beach Boys records -- with a swerve into big-band territory. The group was not receptive. And so you had Brian essentially pushed into his roles on MIU and KTSA (Carlin's book is good on this). He was forced to work for a group that no longer had confidence in him as a creative leader, but that had to include him for economic reasons.

And I am definitely a Brian Wilson fan. That's how I came to the music. But I don't want to give the impression that I don't respect the other guys -- Dennis was a monster talent, and in some ways I like his stuff better than Brian's -- the problem is there's so little of it, and there's a certain repetitive quality to the ballads after awhile. Carl was a peerless vocalist, and some of his songs were excellent. He just never pursued it (his studio work is quite underrated, though). I can't say much for Mike as a musician per se, but as a personality and lead vocal sound, he helped made the group what it was. Al and Bruce (and Ricky and Blondie and Dave) are all-around terrific musicians.

They're ultimately all conduits for the music. And what music it is!

No problem. My own fault for having to re-register.

I think it's understandable that the band didn't want to do a big band album because while Love You is liked by many fans, it could never have been a hit in any dimension. As I posted a while ago, it's unfortunate that the general public kept on sending the message to the band that they only wanted the fun in the sun stuff. So 15BO and Almost Summer were both hits but any big band album almost certainly wouldn't have been.

Nice post claymcc you have an interesting take on Love You. I never have been a fan of it, but maybe that's what he was trying to do. I guess what's hard for me is deciding whether or not he was trying to do anything specific by that stage. True the Adult Child big band attempts seem to be more of fully thought out concepts and I like them a lot more then anything else he did in that period. On Love You though I guess what unsettles me is that it seems Brian has regressed to an odd state of mind and unlike earlier bizare moments like My Solution he doesn't seem in on the gag.

Now I read Mike did not like the Big Band concept and if he heard something like Life Is For The Living I understand, but considering how receptive he seemed to the Love You demos it's hard for me to imagine he didn't like Still I Dream Of It at least melodically. Since Adult Child got pretty close to being released I always felt (and have read contemporary reports that support this) that Warners simply refused to put it out because Love You didn't do well and this was another out of left field album.

I think why Brian went back to a more collaborative role on MIU and KTSA is because they wanted to have the albums a little more democratic and mainstream. Sales were an obvious reason as to why they wanted to be more radio friendly, but the fact is I think it was as much Brian being happier at the point in the role he had on albums like 20/20. I don't mean this in any other way but meaning he wanted to be just a part of the group. Looking at the filmed sessions he seems to be periodically having fun, and   he seems to want to at least lend a hand. LA is a different story because he was in such poor shape. Of course he drug use and mental state in the late seventies was worse then before and by the end of 1979 he was very big again. In the end the 1976-82 period was full of so many ups and downs that it's hard to know what Brian was able to do, willing to do, or wanting to do.

Yeah, that would be my take on Love You too. I think that the worst moments on the album do show that Brian had regressed and I doubt it was a conscious decision to go back to a more whimsical style.

Your friends must be cooler than mine.   :3d

I think the originals on Big Ones could have been more effective in  an album of all originals. I like the oldies idea, I think a 15 Big Ones of all covers would have been okay, like Party II, you know? But it's history. I like the album, although I don't play it that much. Its OK is a great great song. I like Mike's song. I like Back Home and That Same Song. If it wasn't on the same CD as "Love YOu" I'd probably never play it, but it's not entirely worthless.

I remember buying 15 Big Ones the day it was released at Eucalyptus Records, I got a free Frisbee with it (!). Needless to say the Frisbee was far more entertaining than the album. Once it disappeared I was forced to pay attention to the music. If it was released as a double I may have disowned the boys then and there, sometimes
less is more, and in this case that's a very good thing. I have grown to accept it for what it is, a
weak effort with a couple of moments.

The early 70s was my great Beach Boys/Brian Wilson awakening, I absorbed In Concert and loved Holland, by 76 I was 20 and the media was full of the Brian Is Back storyline ... so much promise ... and I remember oh so clearly the Friday night, cruising in the car with friends, when I first heard Rock and Roll Music on the radio .... WTF?

And 15 Big ones remains one of the great WTF? experinces in my life.

I've come to embrace much of Brian Wilson's excentricities over the years ... Love You has its moments, even Adult Child has its moments ... but 15 Big Ones ... aaarrrggghhhh! Wrong music, wrong sound, wrong time, wrong place ... one of the great marketing screw ups of all time. About the only moment on 15BO's for me to embrace is the unbridled joy in That Same Song. It's OK is to me the begining of the very slow end to the Beach Boys as a valid band.

When you hear the instrumentals you can hear some of the hidden beauty in 15 Big Ones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjyQur6j2-8

Worst BB album, still good though, says something right  ;D

The production of the album, especially on "Had to Phone Ya," "It's OK," and "Just Once in My Life was great. Brian really delivered on that front. But it really doesn't deliver in terms of originals, some are very good and some aren't as good; vocals are all over the place (although I like what Brian does by and large, he croaks every now and then) and there is simply too much Mike Love for my tastes

But "Just Once in My Life" is fantastic. Completely and utterly.

I think Brian's moves in this period were somewhat intentional -- even if they weren't consistent or followed through.

For 15BO, he was clearly interested in cutting oldies. So the album ended up being a retrospective of music that influenced him and the group. Some of the quality was a little iffy, though.

He then moved, in Love You, toward his cracked idea of what a modern-day BB could sound like. Songs like Roller Skating Child, Let Us Go On This Way and Honkin' Down the Highway are all attempts to recapture a young person's viewpoint, albeit through the lens of a 30-something, erratic musician. That's what the Beach Boys do, right? Reflect the lives of the kids!

Now, this theme didn't stick for the whole album -- just at the oldies didn't stick for all of 15BO. In the latter case, the group wanted to keep some notion of artistic credibility (i.e., the band can still write songs). In the case of Love You, Brian's interests wandered over to more mature adult themes and novelty songs.

The same can be said for Adult Child -- the Big Band sessions were for a handful of tunes, Brian seemed to find a new direction -- and then he reverted to the one-man band tunes.

The music on 15 Big Ones...heard seperately does show a lot of creativity and quality.

What happened in the final mix and song selection remains a mystery.  It's as if it could have used a few more months work, adding a couple songs, deleting a few,  and better post production or whtever that final polishing process  is called.  It should have, could have been more of a group effort.


As someone else said, I too fast forward through most of 15BO (cept for JOIML) to get to Love you on the twofer.

I do really like Had to Phone ya,,,until it comes to the end...cmon, cmon, cmon,

I'm happy to see all the response this generated! And considering I mostly only own BB music on vinyl, I have to put 15BO on via my own volition.

The reason I was inspired to post this is that I noticed Willie Nelson's Stardust album (all covers of oldies and standards) was released the same year as 15BO - maybe Brian was onto something, you know (in an ideal world) looking back before moving forward into a more mature approach to the BB sound (something the Its over now-type songs exemplify). This being said, its quite obvious that BB corporate interests did not afford the room to explore these artistic inclinations as he became less a source of artistic purity and inspiration, and more a source of bankability for the live band and record company.

And finally, I agree that the album did need a bit more polish (or maybe it didn't and that's why it remains enduring today - see: smiley smile, wild honey, friends, love you, surfin safari!) well at least more polish to become a viable double LP. who knows? still, when you let 15BO engage you on a purely musical level without too much of the politics or the groups past work in mind it is a surprisingly engaging album, one which radiates a real positive fun time feeling - something the beach boys had been lacking (for better or worse, most would probably think worse) since the psychedelic road had been trod and consequently abandoned one decade earlier (save for break away and other one-offs)

1973 -- Moondog Matinee by The Band
1973 -- Pin-Ups by David Bowie
1973, 1974 -- First two Bryan Ferry solo albums (all covers)
1975 -- Rock and Roll by John Lennon

The concept of 15BO was very of the time. Brian was doing something that a lot of other artists, for whatever reason, were also doing in the mid-1970s.

I get the feeling that Brian's reasons may have been different from those other guys though. In interviews that he's given from that period through to the present day it's pretty clear that Brian is and was very concerned about how the public respond to his music and whether it will sell and so he was hesitant about releasing any new originals. I guess it's a pretty common psychological thing in those circumstances that somebody puts very little effort in so that if their work is rejected, they can tell themselves that they hadn't tried their best anyway. Brian has basically followed that path through to the present day and left to his own devices in the studio is happy to get it over with as quickly as possible even if the results are substandard.

I disagree -- sort of.

I mean, some of what you say hits home -- take the abandonment of something like the Paley sessions, which if properly presented would have re-established Brian a good eight-nine years before BWPS did -- but the music was maybe too personal, maybe too arty. It was okay to have fun in the studio with a friend, but actually releasing it? Naah. Better to go off to Chicago, have Joe Thomas oversee tracking sessions and sing harmonies. Brian can play that game.

But there are oldies on 15BO on which Brian is clearly inspired. The wrecking crew resurrection of Palisades Park. The sloppy gorgeousness of Just Once In My Life. There are also some tossed-off trifles. But that goes for the originals, too. Something about those songs fired up something in Brian -- and they still do. Have you seen him perform Johnny B. Goode in concert? He loves his oldies.

I think Brian can be a pretty simple guy sometimes, and a very complicated one at others. So all of what I'm saying can be true sometimes, and all of what you're saying can be true at others. Sometimes he's a ball of nerves and self-examining, sometimes he doesn't care at all, and sometimes he knows precisely what he wants to do.

He's also -- and this is a much more reductionist view -- mentally ill. His moments of focus can be fleeting. So lately if he's rushing to get something out, it may be because he knows that's the only way it can get out at all.

I actually listened to 15BO last week on my mint US vinyl copy for the first time for years, and though the sound is very smooth, revealing and meaty (perhaps because of this), the whole affair is absolutely wretched.  Brian's vocals are just horrid and the cover is the worst ever. End.

I was just looking at the 'Holy Mackerel' photo, which I already knew. What puzzles me:

I read a review of POB, where the author described the album as recognizably one of the classic 'cocaine' albums. He named 'Hotel California' and 'No Other' (Gene Clark) as two other examples. Although I never used the Bolivian Marching Powder myself, I saw his point. You can discern a special quality in all three sets. Not necessarily negative, mind. A bit 'zonked out' ('Friday Night' is an example), slurred slowish singing... whilst the Eagles do a polished form of self-irony, self-critique, IMHO. It's all a bit 'nice', comforting, the pain is there but sedated.

That leads me to the connection between the Wilson/Medley photo and 15BO. I can't imagine Brian having done a 'coke'-album. Even at his very worst he tried to do something naive, childlike. In that respect, the 'cocaine sessions' (which I never heard, of course) are not about cocaine.

Am I right?

I would also add Tusk to that list of coke albums.

Although I can understand why a good portion of the original fanbase were turned off by 15BO, especially coming off of Holland, I have to admit, there are tracks from that album and that period that I quite enjoy. I think all of the Brian originals are fun (the track of Had To Phone  Ya is as good as anything he did in the mid-60's). Everyone's In Love With You is the one Mike song that I actually like.  Some of the oldies cook lke Palisades Park and Just Once In My Life. But the problem I think is that it was poorly sequenced and some tracks that weren't that good were included that shouldn't have been included. 

I would have to think this over, but I think an enoyable and non-embarassing  album could have been culled from what was completed that  is superior to the album that was released.  And best of yet, it could have still met the criteria of it being a Brian-produced album (after the sucess of Endless Summer and Spirit of America, the band could not have gotten away with a non-Brian produced album). As it was, it was this album, basically that killed the mid-70's comeback. 

MIU was the biggest overall disapointment of the era.  When Brian didn't screw up,  someone else did, it seems.

Anything ?  :o

This is just my opinion, and not (as above) stated as fact, but to these ears, the track for "Good Vibrations" shades "Had To Phone Ya". Just.  Likewise the tracks for "Wouldn't It Be Nice", "Kiss Me, Baby", "The Little Girl I Once Knew", "Let Him Run Wild", "Salt Lake City", "Let's Go Away For A While" and a few other songs from 1964-66 might be considered just a tad better. IMO.  :)

I was referring to the music bed, not the completed version.

And I stand by what I said, Mr Looking Back With Love Is A Good Record.

... for playing frisbee...  ;D


Just kidding. I get your point, even like a few tracks (paradise Found is not bad at all).

And- hey- I became a fan when I heard Kokomo... have to give that song some credit...

So was I, hence my use of the word "tracks" and not "songs". You seem to be laboring under the impression I can't read or comprehend basic English very well. I assure you this is not the case.

In all fairness, in some circles "songs" and "tracks" mean the same thing! Never quite got that one, even though it seems to mainly be limited to the the US...you'd think I'd be less confused an/or annoyed by that :lol

From very early on in my immersion in the world of Wilson, it was evident to me that a "track" was the instrumental backing. I clearly recall Carl saying in an interview "we cut a track for that song".

Am I forgiven if I say it's a great track of an OK song? 

That was my understanding too...just seems like more and more reviewers (again, mainly here in the US) referring to individual songs as "tracks". Of course, it seems like spelling and grammar have fallen by the wayside, so I guess society is just about f***ed! :lol


Actually, that describes a lot of 15 BO, imho.

The track is great. The finished version... passable.

track is short for 'background track', or 'instrument track', however it can also mean, say, a track on a cd.

I don't mind 15 BO at all and would've minded even less if it had been 15 oldies.  It's quirky and idiosyncratic in the way that, as a BW fan, you've got to learn to expect, or even endure.  Fact is, Mike was nasal, BW's voice largely shot (and he was singing in a way to exaggerate this) and DW's voice was a shadow of its former self, but I enjoy In the Still..., Palisades Park, Just Once... and a Casual Look in particular and would've enjoyed Sea Cruise and On Broadway and wouldn't have minded Come Go With Me and Peggy Sue.  Of the 'new' stuff, I like Susie..., Had to Phone Ya and Back Home.  I don't mind It's Okay (for what it is) and wish That Same Song had taken the ballsier approach of the version on the TV special with the Double Rock Baptist Choir (and Billy Hinsche!). The big problem and, I think, the reason why it's regarded as such a mess is its position in BB chronology.  It was the first album after a long break after Holland and expectations were high.  Now, I guess, we can look back at it with some understanding of the mess they were in. Out of it - and out of Brian/Landy's need to sort of go back to the egg, came Love You. Granted, not to everyone's taste, though it is to mine.  On the other hand, POB stands as a shining example of another direction the band could've gone in and it's always disappointing to read about and hear songs by band members other than BW that were turned down or dropped from later recordings, like LA, particularly when some of them would have fit the tone that Dennis' (admittedly superior) songs could've brought to the rest of the album. Sadly, it's difficult to think of many potential or existing BW contributions that would've been appropriate. California Feeling? Overrated, but... My Diane? Winter Symphony?  That's about it.

I still think they should have used whatever leftovers they had featuring Brian's vocals, and "update" the instrumental backing. The public would have been none the wiser and would've helped perpetuate Brian's myth a bit longer. Hell, if they put "When Girls get together" on KTSA, 10 years after the fact, then that (and "Games Two Can Play" "I just got my pay", ect) could've been released on what became 15 BO. At the very least, that would've bought Brian some time to actually do something up to his standard.

That actually is a great idea, but the live return was part of the hype and taped vocals weren't often done back then.

Just take what they had, and overdub some additional instrumental backing...would've been pretty easy, actually. Then throw in stuff from the others (would've been a GREAT time for some of Dennis's unreleased tracks to make an appearance) along with a few new tracks, and voila! Of course the gig would've been up when they actually had to follow up the album, but it would have been worth it. Sure, "San Miguel" may have sounded dated in 1976, but not anymore that what actually *did* come out.

I think with a little bit more work they could have had a great Brian/Dennis produced by Carl album (which is how I tend to think of Sunflower):
My understanding is that the tracks Dennis was working on at the time for the "new" album were Holy Man, River Song, Rainbows, and Pacific Ocean Blue; throw in Good Timin and California Feeling, and the best of 15 big ones as released, and you have something like:

River Song
Had to Phone You
It’s Okay
Everyone’s In Love With You
Back Home
Pacific Ocean Blues

Good Timing
That Same Song
Rainbows
California Feeling
Just Once In My Life
Holy Man

With Good Timin as the lead off single to play off the nostalgia!  Gold

Liking this but would personally drop Everyone's in Love With You and California Feeling. They both strike me as contrived...

Not sure what I'd replace them with though -  maybe Sea Cruise, Good Time, I Just Got My Pay and/or San Miguel, which would (I think) all have been in the vaults at that time. Hard to comment of Holy Man without hearing a DW/Beach Boys finished version.

that's one heck of an album, and a bigger comeback than ever

Would be interested to hear a good quality version of that so called 'Hot Mix' of "Rock 'n' Roll Music" that was previewed on radio when 15BO was still a double album project. A bonus track-candidate for the 40th anniversary CD-reissue of 15BO in 2016. ;D

IMO it sounds much nicer & tighter than the album version. A bit more kick I guess you could say..



That looks great....a solid LP of oldies to compliment that would've been great. I think this whole thread proves something I've thought for quite some time now - for one reason or another the Beach Boys had difficulty sequencing their records in a way that showcased them in their best light (in hindsight obviously, as we now have an idea of what some of the unreleased material they were working on at the times of respective releases sounded like).  This problem probably didn't get them the fanbase or critical praise they deserved, but it is certainly something that keeps us hardcore fans interested in them - questioning and thinking about why they did or didn't do the things they did in their history. At all periods of their existence, there always seems to be more going on than meets the eye

I love the sequences presented here for a single comeback LP. Never saw such a list before, although there may have been quite a few.

My personal quips:

Everyone's In Love With You: no, please. It makes your teeth rot within its playing time.

Good Time: no. This is, for me, the sore thumb on 'Love You'. An awful song. The singer tries way too hard, also.

For some reason I never like Everyone's In Love With You until I watched on YouTube the short comedy series "Yacht Rock". After that I viewed it as the smooth classic that it is, from the pen of Mike Love no less..

This is the first time I hear of an item on YouTube that I should avoid at all costs, then.

Next thing I know, someone tries to talk me into Coldplay... >:(

You know how I know you're gay? :lol :lol

I haven't the faintest, honest. Must be a lack of understanding on my part. Tell it, or, if it is too dirty and is all about places where the sun just don't shine, PM me...

I think that Everyone In Love With You is by far the best song on 15BO. That just goes to show how bad the album is. The original song that makes me gag on the album is That Same Song. Its Ok at least has some energy of the early days and Had to Phone Ya was a decent out take of the early 70s.

I love 15 Big 'Uns.  In fact it's dessert island material -- and maybe, quite possible my most played and favorite Beach Boy album.  I love the loose sound...often incorrectly labeled as "sloppy."  :angel:

A double album would have been divine!

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/02/72/38ffe03ae7a09a166a61b110.L.jpg)

Why is Al looking out to the far left whilst the others are looking back at the spectator? Is there a symbolic meaning to all of this? Gee, I have that LP for 33 years and I never noticed that before...

And while I'm at it: why was the same photo used for the back cover of Love You and M.I.U. Album, albeit with a bit of proto-photoshopping done?

not the same phote, definitely the same photo shoot though.

It's a reference to the movie "The 40 Year Old Virgin", where Paul Rudd and Seth Rogen keep keep asking each other "You know how I know you're gay?"...Rudd tells Rogen he's gay because he listens to Coldplay...the line "You know how I know you're gay? You listen to Coldplay!" became a somewhat popular catchphrase here in the States.

You go Bean Bag. 15 Big Ones(!) was one of the first non hits albums me and my brother picked up when we were first getting into the band back in the mid 80's. We were exposed to the album with almost no frame of reference and just about everything about it was compelling. The title: who names anything 15 Big Ones? Just the title alone had us hooked. We tried to name our senior yearbook 80 Big Ones but were out voted by the rest of the class. The cover: The into of that cheesy Beach Boys logo, which I wonder if they still use on corporate stuff. Hope Dean got some royalties on that one. Brian and Dennis the only ones smiling with the rest of the guys decked out in mid 70's formal wear, knowing they looked killer. The songs: OLDIES! weird sounding songs (production I later learned to call it) starting off with Rock and Roll Music with odd background vocals that had people asking "are they playing two songs at once?". The downright eerie vocals from Brian not even trying to hide that croaky manly voice. Thanks to Mike Love I now knew the lyrics to Blueberry Hill. And until the day I die whenever I hear a sweet haunting ballad my brain will interrupt with "COMES FROM TALLAHASEE!"

No other records sounded like it...they were a force among themselves. There was pop, rock etc. and there were Beach Boy records. Like Stanley Kubrick their influences were themselves and their legacy and until Love You its like no other music existed.   

Thanks! I think the catchphrase is eminently valid. Although I will never forgive Chris Martin for marrying Gwyneth Paltrow (my secret movie love of all); and I will never forgive Gwyneth either for marrying such a non-talent. Well, Gwyneth got her come-uppance for it, at least. She got boxed.

I agree with you on "Everyone's In Love With You" but I kind of like (not necessarily love) "Good Time". The godawful lyrics make me laugh and it's fun to hear Brian in such good humor. I do however agree that it does stick out like a sore thumb on "Love You". Maybe it should have just stayed a classic unreleased song for us all to hear on boxed sets or bootlegs.

Right on!! 8)

My guess:  because they'd already left Warner Bros. by the time the jacket was prepped, and so someone just grabbed another still from the last official shoot they did for the label. 

One of my 15-20 favorite Beach Boys songs ever. You, sir (to quote yourself elsewhere in the thread), will get YOUR come-uppance. YOU will get boxed.

The song's good, but I gotta agree with The Don. "Good Time" SOUNDS out of place, and it wasn't even necessary. Brian had enough other new(er) songs to use. I used to think they should've re-recorded the lead vocal, but that probably wouldn't have worked either.

I don't mean to say it fits in on that album: it doesn't. Frankly, I think it should have made Sunflower (it was done by then, wasn't it?). And it would have been one of the better songs there, too.

I thought I'd resurrect this thread just because I've made my only ipod playlist "15 Big Ones" oldies only album, in line with the original double album concept:
Side One
Rock and Roll Music
Come go with Me
Sea Cruise
Chapel of Love
Talk to Me
A Casual Look
Shake Rattle and Roll

Side Two
Palisades Park
On Broadway
Mony Mony
Blueberry Hill
In the Still of the Night
Peggy Sue
Just Once in My Life

I realize that's only 14 big ones, but I think it makes a pretty good oldies album.  The "originals" album is more problematic - I can see why Brian gave up on the concept and went for a combined single album, there just weren't enough good originals.  At least not that were finished.   Assuming they took some extra time to finish songs they had started, the originals album could have been something like:

Side One
It's OK
Had to Phone Ya
Susie Cincinatti
Pacific Ocean Blues
That Same Song
California Feeling
Ding Dang

Side Two
River Song
Back Home
Everyone's in Love with You
Good Timin'
Rainbows
Child of Winter
TM Song

You could add "Runnin' Bear," to make an official 15 songs. Spoke to Dean Torrence on Thursday about this album design. He told me that Mike Love came up with the Olympics concept because it was an Olympic year. The images in the circles were the promotional stills being used by Warner Brothers at the time, and Torrence used them. The now, most recognizable Beach Boys logo, was designed by hand by Dean. He had no idea it would go on to become "the" Beach Boys logo. He did not the 15 Big Ones cover with that in mind.