The Smiley Smile Message Board

Howdy folks,

I've kinda wondered about this.  Are the double tracks 2 different tracks played together?  Or the same track with one playing like a teensy bit after.  And were they played at the same volume for the final mix?  and were harmony parts doubled??  i imagine different songs might have different answers.  but yeah.

thanks.

The Beach Boys did one take of vocals on a song, then doubled-tracked a completely different take on top of it.  It gives the vocals a sort of 'trebley' sheen from the rub of the two takes together.

For lead vocals, they pretty much always sang the lead twice through, then played both tracks together.  The Beatles achieved a similar effect by slightly delaying a copy of the vocal track, as you described (known as Artificial Double Tracking, or ADT).  Either way you go about it, you usually play both tracks back at the same volume, giving you that cool chorus effect.

I'm pretty sure that the Boys did the same with their harmonies, at least in the early years, to give the harmonies a fuller sound in the mix.  Hope that helps!

thanks guys!  and go easy on rihanna mr. brown.

Haven't heard that one before.  :lol

I should add, though, that many times one of the voices being double tracked may be treated in some way. That is, echo or reverb is added, or it's played at a slightly different volume.

Also, virtually all Beach Boys / BW band harmony is double or triple tracked. That means that the four-part harmony would be dubbed twice, giving you the effect of eight voices. On more recent BW solo stuff, he's tracked certain parts three times -- meaning you'd get a choir of 12 or more voices. (Imagination took this to the extreme -- every harmony part was quadruple tracked, meaning that you'd have 16 backing vocals on each song, and sometimes four on the lead!)

This is one of the reasons why Brian's 10-piece backup band can so faithfully replicate the sound of the original records -- having only four or five people sing those parts live is too few!

I can't think of a specific example right now, but I know there were a few instances on one or two of the early tunes where a different lyric was sang on the doubled vocal.  This happened with the Beatles, too.

It happened on Sloop John B...one voice sang "I feel so broke up", and the other sang "I feel so break up".

Vocally, I think Mike & Bruce's band sounds a lot fuller. And I know they have less people. Reverb?

The classic double-tracking foul-up is the lead of "Shut Down". Mike sang the correct words, but phrased them entirely differently. Result in mono ? Gibberish ! ;D

I don't know about "a lot fuller," but the sound is different, definitely.

The timbre and range of those singing makes a real difference. Brian's band has a lot of slightly thin tenor voices -- it's often been remarked on that there's not a lot of low end in his shows. You have Jeff and Taylor and Probyn all essentially up high, Scott and Darian and Nelson slightly lower and then Nicky -- not sure where Mikey or Brett fall. Paul doesn't really sing. Brian is often left to take the bass, but he also sings his share of middle parts.

So you have the ability to have a really layered sound, and quite a bit of complexity, but the voices aren't quite as naturally spread as the BBs. The band could use a good baritone/bass voice.

(The original BBs, by comparison, had a very full falsetto top voice in Brian, full-bodied vocals from Al and Carl in the middle, and Mike doing a close-miked bass. So they not only hit the ranges, but virtually all had real depth and body in the voices. Dennis, too, who would usually sing around Al's range.)

(Edited to better reflect reality)

I thought Carl almost always took the mid-low range, thus the harmony being:
Brian
Al
Carl
Mike

with Dennis being in the middle

I defer to those who might know better. I had been looking at the Beach Boys Archives breakdowns of vocal stacks, and those show Carl above Al at times (Please Let Me Wonder, for instance), but he is below him at others.

As Alex said, Sloop John B had that problem and it is probably the most recognizable. Brian sang "break" instead of "broke" one time.

Dennis did it during Be With Me off of 20/20. In the second part of the song, he sang "it could set us free" and also "it could set you free" so both "us" and "you" are sung at the same time during the song.

It looks like the standard stack in the old days was:

Brian
Al OR Dennis
Carl
Mike

Dennis being higher than Carl seems odd, but it probably was a strategy to keep the pitchiest singer in the middle of the harmony stack.  Plus, the timbre would be rough-smooth-rough-smooth.  Better blend.

Carl did seem to sing above Al when the tenor part was particularly complicated.  From what I can tell, if Brian had a really insanely difficult part he'd give it to Carl, regardless of where it fell in the blend.

When the band did five parts, Dennis seems to have sung between Carl and Mike, or the band seems to split into two parts (e.g. "Help Me Rhonda" where Mike and Dennis sing a counterpoint to the main 3-part stack).  Once Bruce is in it seems to have been a function of who happened to be there at the time.  Dennis isn't on a lot of the PET SOUNDS stuff for example, but Bruce is...once again probably because Bruce was a very quick learner for very complicated parts.  I get the sense that Dennis got used less and less on the backgrounds the more people were in the band to sing but I haven't sat down with the tracks to verify that.  One of the big exceptions to this would be FRIENDS, where Dennis sings a lot, but Mike doesn't (he was on a TM retreat at the time).  So again, whoever was around.  I think it's significant that once Bruce is gone Dennis sings a lot of backgrounds again in '76 and '77, even though his voice wasn't in the best shape by that point.

Wow this is a great thread!  FWIW Bruce sings "broke up" and I sing "break up" at our shows.  I love things like that!

I'd like to point out that Al's part on "Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring" is VERY complicated, as is Carl's part.  In fact, the only easy part is Brian's.

Scott Totten

 This is for Scott - Do you guys ever work up more complicated songs like "Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring?" I'm just wondering how the parts are worked out? Does someone listen to the original, and then actually write out the parts in musical notation? And are the parts given to each individual in person, or is a CD given to each singer with their part to work on? The reason I'm asking, is that in my college chorus class, we have sheet music to read with all 4 or 6 vocal parts written down, but we are sometimes given a CD with our own part (Mine is tenor) to practice along with.

 As to multi-tracking, yeah the duplicating of vocals does give a fatter sound, depending on how high in the mix the doubled vocal is. This has to do with timing, inflection, the way words are pronounced, etc. I've read that there are some singers who are so precise, that when they double, it doesn't sound so thick, because there is hardly any variation. That's why having a different individual duplicate the same part gives a different sound, and a relative - like a brother, will have a more unique blend when singing.

Couldn't agree more, Scott. For those interested, a vocal transcript for "A Young Man Is Gone" can be found here: http://surfermoon.com/essays/youngman_vt.html, and Al's part, pretty much isolated, can be heard on the 1993 Paramount rehearsals.

Good point on Al's part, Scott...it's not meant to say the other guys couldn't hold down complicated parts -- Dennis' part on "The Lord's Prayer" is insane.  I'm thinking that what may have happened is that when Brian was handing out the parts at a session, if he had an anchor part that was really tricky he might give it to Carl to nail it down because Carl would execute it quicker and faster than the other guys....and that may have also been true of Bruce when he came in for PET SOUNDS.  It would just be for expediency's sake, not that the other guys couldn't do it, but that Carl could probably get the part faster.  It could also have been difference in timbre, too -- I'm guessing.  "Hearts" may be a different case because that was a showpiece that was worked out in advance of doing in the studio, so everyone probably had their parts down well before they recorded it.

Scott, if you're still there, I'd love to ask a question...when you guys perform nowadays, is Bruce doing a discrete part in the stack or is he usually doubling one of you guys?  Is he doing some midrange harmonies and some falsetto?  I've just been curious about that.  I haven't been able to tell from watching youtube.

Well, since you all seem to know what you're talking about.  i see this harmony chart
http://www.surfermoon.com/essays/dream_vt.html

I assume each note is just a single note on a piano and not the chord.  I suppose it doesn't matter.  I didn't realize everyone sung a different note at once.  and the / means it goes up an octave?

Edit. I'm a doofus.

Usually what happens is, I listen to as many versions, outtakes, mixes etc. as I can get a hold of, and I pick out the parts.  I use Sibelius Notation software.  If we are talking about just vocal parts, I don't usually send out sheet music.  What I do is record myself singing each part, and then make each guy a mix that features his part but with the others in there for reference.  Then I send an mp3 to each guy.

We do perform Hearts, and after we had some personnel changes a couple of years ago Bruce wanted to learn Carl's part.  I used the method I just mentioned, and he put it on his iPod and listened to it over and over, even in his sleep!  He said it was one of the hardest things he has ever learned.  I learned Al's part years ago and it took me a long time to pick it out and memorize.

Thanks for the great question!

Scott

We generally don't do much doubling, the exception being that on a few songs (Surfer Girl and Fools) Randell and I double the high part.  Bruce is usually in the middle of the stack, but of course he goes high on some key moments like the end of Fun Fun Fun. 

When I send out parts it is often like this

Randell
Scott
Bruce
Christian
Mike

That seems to make a good blend for us.

Thanks

Scott

Correct, each letter is a note and not a chord. / means that the melody goes up, but not necessarily an entire octave: F   / C   for example, means that the C is higher than the preceding F; had it been a backslash instead of a slash it would've been lower. If still confused, go here to find sheet music for THWFOS and more: http://beach-boys.aure.com/  :)

Thanks for the answer Scott....I had wondered about this.  Please send my regards to Randell - a fine, fine man.

adam

Well, you can't sing a chord on your own. Vocal chords are formed by people singing different notes at the same time.

It does matter. Each letter is a note on a piano like you thought. A chord would consist of Brian's note, Al's note, Carl's note, and Mike's note played/sung at the same time. Each grouping of the four individual notes played together (it doesn't have to be four, it can be two, three, four, five, etc) is a chord. Brian always made beautiful chord changes. So when you hear someone say that, you know what it means.

cool.  didn't realize harmonies were different notes in a chord. seems so obvious.

Plus, one thing to consider is approach.  The authentic double tracking The BBs did was 100% suited to their approach and appeal - that as a vocal pop group.  It sounded like a freakin' choir.  The Beatles' artificial double-tracking and vari-speed methods suited their working styles and sound down to the ground.

authentic double tracking?

the beach boys double tracked in the exact same way as the beatles.. it's just the beach boys used sometimes up to 5 vocal parts, while the beatles only used 3 at the most.

Not true.

The Beatles extensively used Automatic Double Tracking, or ADT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_double_tracking

Authentic double tracking, or actually singing the parts twice, was used by the Beach Boys (the Beatles used it too, but the ADT effect was pretty much limited to the Beatles at the time).

Only post-1966, and even then only for a couple of songs.  For the most part both groups double-tracked their vocals in exactly the same fashion.

Not a couple of songs, either. If you read that article, or "Revolution in the Head," you'll see that the Beatles used it on Revolver and every album subsequently. But they often used it as an effect, not necessarily a replacement to conventional double tracking.

That's true...in Macca's autobiography, he talks about this and basically says that it was originally done as a time-saving method for recording lead vocals.  But as you said, they didn't do it on every song, and many times they still manually double-tracked.  Each method produces a slightly different sound, so it essentially just became another tool for them to use.

I've never known if the Beatles double tracked their harmony vocals like the Beach Boys...did they? 

Apparently on Here, there, and etc.... probably on And Your Bird Can Sing.... and they triple tracked it on Because. They didn't on the moptop stuff, i think.

Fair enough, you're right.  I got a little thrown off by the terms used (automatic/authentic/artificial).

"Because," too. There, they overdubbed three sets of voices three times -- so there are nine voices on the track. And that was authentic as could be.   ;D

Please Please Me (the LP) wasn't - all but 4 of those tracks were cut  over the course of a 10 hour work day.  Everything starting with With The Beatles is double-tracked, save for the Get Back/Let It Be-era.