The Smiley Smile Message Board

Listen as Mike Love teaches Paul McCartney how to rock like the early Beach Boys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5AGZt6ora8&feature=related.
Several days later he would help Paul write "Back in the U.S.S.R.".

Here we see George Harrison trying to nudge up to Mike in a group photograph:
(http://media.nowpublic.net/images//41/1/411513c0b3a7a803f8923282f77c645c.jpg)
Mike Love's feedback on John and Paul's songwriting efforts during their time with the Maharishi left an indelible stamp on 'The White Album', which numerous fans and critics alike coincidentally consider to be the Beatles best work.

Yessir, Mike's pith helmet must have had the punkawhallahs trembling in their kaftans! Jolly good show of support from the old colonists, what-ho?

 :lol

Brilliant, isn't it? I loved that one too... BTW: for me (for all of us?) esp. these photos begin to look truly surreal by now. As if it never happened. Or only in a movie. I don't know...

I had never heard that song before! It sounds like something that would be on Party!

yeah, what the hell? is this only available on beatles bootlegs? what??

Didn't VDP once say something like 'John and Paul thought Mike Love was an asshole'? :o 

Anyways, sorry to break up the Love fest-long live the 5th Beatle!!

Yeah, and VDP also thinks that the Beatles sneaked into LA studios in 66/67 to listen to SMiLE without Brian's knowledge. Clearly, he's delusional, no doubt owing to his years of LSD, amphetamine, and weed use. Mike kept his head clear. Why would you want to lose your ego? Mike's been touring successfully for decades while acid 'heroes' like Brian Wilson, Syd Barrett, and Roky Erickson were too busy fighting personal demons brought out by excessive drug use.

Oh, hi there Dr. Love.  :lol

ever talked to Van Dyke Parks? or have you just read that one quote of his in some obscure beach boys literature?

I bet Dada is applying for a role in the next BBs Family TV Serial, as 'That Cousin From H*ll' or something...

I can't remember where I saw that. Maybe the old SMiLE shop board? Or maybe I dreamt it.

Van Dyke did say that John and Paul hated Mike Love. And according to our hero and leader, Mr. Parks is the biggest butthole in the world.  :)

Right-Mike kept his head clear while his bloated ego grew large enough to make him the most laughed at and hated man in rock and roll. He also seemed to severely faulter in attempting to make speeches at award ceremonies. :angry

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Brilliant, isn't it? I loved that one too... BTW: for me (for all of us?) esp. these photos begin to look truly surreal by now. As if it never happened. Or only in a movie. I don't know...
[/quote]


You are right! I can't help thinking of this image after your comment now. ;D

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/12/07/fashion/07python-600.jpg

:lol

That video was too wierd. I can honestly say I never thought I'd ever hear the Beatles sing to Mike, but it certainly made me smile ;D

Parks understands that An American Family will stand as a legacy for Beach Boys fans who don't know the history, but he's hoping that the music will ultimately stand as the stronger legacy. "What I saw on that show about Brian Wilson was false, and   that's all I really need to say," he concludes. "I guarantee you it was a pack of lies. And I'll tell you something -- I'll give you one final clean piece of evidence. The audience was led to believe by that movie that John Lennon wanted to jam with Mike Love. Well, I was with John Lennon one time, and he told me that he and Paul thought that Mike Love was -- and these are the words John Lennon used -- 'a jerk.' The Beatles thought Mike Love was a jerk. So there are obviously two different impressions of that meeting. Mike Love has one and John Lennon had another. So, I'm submitting John Lennon's recollection to you since he's no longer here to do it himself."

http://vandykeparks.com/miscfiles/latimes0004.html (http://vandykeparks.com/miscfiles/latimes0004.html)

Touring an oldies package successfully for decades cos you've no talent to do anything else, or:

...he's worked with everyone from the Byrds, Paul Revere & the Raiders, and his friend Harry Nilsson to, more recently, Fiona Apple, U2, Sam Phillips, and Rufus Wainwright, the latter whose debut LP he coproduced. The telepic also makes no note of his movie or TV soundtracks, nor seems to consider his collaboration with Brian Wilson several years ago on the wonderful Orange Crate Art album.

Think I'll choose the latter, thanks.

And just what is Brian doing right now?

You must be joking. The guy has been releasing music steadily since 2004: BWPS (2004), Christmas Album (2005), TLOS (2007), and next, the Gershwin project. He may be doing a greatest hits tour, but he's certainly not been out of the studio for years.

Gee, I think maybe he's singing mostly songs that HE wrote from the past mixed in with a few tunes HE wrote for HIS albums-you know, songs from Smile, Lucky Old Sun, and even Pet Sounds which He wrote. A far cry from the baldster's copy Brian's stuff tribute band.  :p

Uh, Mike's been in the studio, too, and a few of his songs make it to the setlist (Cool Head Warm Heart, Santa's Goin' to Kokomo, et cetera). Sure, Brian's a little more prolific (maybe because labels consider him to be "THE Brian Wilson"), but it's essentially the same thing.

"...essentially the same thing" as what? Mike's the same as Brian in the writing dept?? :shrug :o

Brian sells out famous halls to play "SMiLE" and "That Lucky Old Sun" in their entirety, his newly released ALBUMS.

Mike packs in a couple thousand folks at the local fairground and has, in your words, "a few of his songs make it to the setlist (Cool Head Warm Heart, Santa's Goin' to Kokomo, et cetera)."

Brian goes in the studio and knocks out a quite nice new song with Burt Bacharach called "What Love Can Do".

Mike goes in the studio and knocks out a pathetic Christmas rehash of Kokomo even more pathetically titled "Santa's Goin' To Kokomo".


Yes, you're right.  They are essentially the same thing and require the same talent levels.  Silly me!

You might want to read Aegir's post again, especially the "because labels consider him to be 'THE Brian Wilson'" part. Labels are more willing to release a Brian Wilson album than a Mike Love album, no matter how good/bad Mike's unreleased album is.  :P

Regarding "Santa's Goin' To Kokomo", Mike wanted to do a fun holiday song, not a groundbreaking masterpiece. And he released it for free, whereas with Brian's management you have to buy the same album three times to get all the different bonus tracks.  ::)

I can see it now-an entire album full of Mike Love (who?) bonus tracks. Wait a minute! Wasn't that previously released under the title  "Looking Back With Love" ? OF COURSE the lovester released SGTK for free!! Who in their right mind would pay for crap like that?? ::) :o

People paid good money for GIOMH which was far worse.

Thanks, but it was short enough to understand first time around.  So he's "THE Brian Wilson" then?  I guess Mike's not "THE Mike Love" - you know, the one who has overseen the commercial come-uppance the Beach Boys for the past 20 years and takes the credit for it.  Lord knows that Love has no money, access to studio time, or connections to help him out - the playing field isn't even!  Brian has all these songs that people put out for him because he's THE BRIAN WILSON!  And because Mike's not Brian, he's not released anything -- let alone anything OF NOTE -- and has only been able to surreptitiously get his tracks out below the radar.  Who's got the "Mike Love Presents FRoWN" SOT boots?  They must be SOMEWHERE.

Or, let's use yours and Mike's words.  The guiding word and direction of Mike Love has been "commercial".  And if, as you say, labels are more willing to release a Brian album than a Mike album - doesn't that mean that, from a commercial standpoint, the Brian albums are a more viable product, regardless of how good or bad they are?  Even easier: Brian's name sells albums, Mike's doesn't - so Mike's his equal, then?  Especially by the standards that Love uses to govern the modern day BBs?

Or is it that Mike deserves more respect for touring the same songs for the past 20+ years, whereas Brian doesn't come close with writing new ones? 


With all due respect maybe you don't see the point you just illustrated so well: selling the same albums three times over, from a commercial standpoint, is successful.  Repackaging 30 minute albums into multi-disc box sets because people want to hear how you were running THE BACKING VOCAL SESSIONS is successful.  Giving away a song no one will pay $1 for by itself is not.  By Mike's logic, Brian wins big time.  Of course, if your saying that Mike's an artist and that was an integrity thing on his part, well...

Also Brian's been successful writing both fun songs and groundbreaking masterpieces.  I'm not able to say the same for Mike.


You will hear no arguments from me there.  Such a prescient title.

I think it's telling that Mike Love Not War has never been released (and it's considered to be Mike's best effort by those who have heard it) and GIOMH (what many cal Brian's worst) was.*


*Non-Brianistas, don't start typing. I do know the only reason it was released was because it was packaged with SMiLE to Warner Brothers.

GIOMH would have been released anyway. Not on a major label, maybe. But someone would have done it. Maybe they would have insisted that some vocals be recut -- and things would have been better all around.

Folks who seriously argue for the musical quality of Mike's releases have lost all perspective. I've listened to Unleash the Love (the album) and it is -- eh. It's not bad, but it's a Mike Love solo album. No one would put out the darn thing unless Mike began to heal the sick. *

* Disclaimer for non-Brianistas: I agree that Mike was an essential part of the BB vocal blend, that his lyrics were important to the group's early hits, and that he's kept the group steaming along on the road. No question there. But that's a different thing from arguing that any of his solo music has had any artistic relevance ever.

Really? I don't like GIOMH but I'd rather hear something like Soul Searchin' (even though it's not as good as the original) over Santa's Goin' To Kokomo.

I think something needs to be set straight regarding the artistic quality of Michael's solo music. Yes, it's total kitsch. Yes, it's unreleased for a reason. But it's enjoyable in a "turn off your brain" sense. It's inoffensive pop music, certainly not high art. Michael sang much better on his solo albums than on 90% of the stuff he did with the Beach Boys at the time. Either way we wouldn't listen unless we were fans. I would argue that Michael's solo music is LESS offensive than all of the sh*t the Beach Boys insulted us with after Love You, with LA and parts of '85 excepted.

There's a point to that.

The main reason to listen to Michael's solo music, for me anyway, is his vocals. While his tone was incredibly nasal and grating from 1977 until about 2000 or so, somehow he put more effort into his solo stuff. Looking Back With Love has some excellent lead vocals for his age at the time.

The lyrics on the solo records are indeed pretty bad, and in many cases Michael didn't contribute to any of them. Looking Back With Love has one Michael co-write. Country Love is mostly Michael, words AND music. First Love, same deal. Mike Love Not War, however, was a pleasant surprise. By far his most enjoyable album. Again, high art it ain't, but it's a respectable effort. No reason it couldn't at least get an internet release, but again, he's not an easy sell.

He'll never get out of the desert, so to speak. The Beach Boys as individuals are mostly unappealing commercially, even Brian and Dennis to a much lesser extent.

Nice point of view.  An interesting compliment to that train of thought is how when Brian DOES write a simple, switch off your mind  tune like the aforementioned "What Love Can Do" you will usually hear something to the tune of "Eh, it's harmless enough but it's no SMiLE.  This is hardly adventurous, this is paint-by-numbers Brian.  I mean, it's okay...".

Tying back to the original thought train: that is one tune from a Target comp, a tune with a heavyweight co-write (not just song, album-wise as well), amongst some very credible releases.  That is something Michael simply is not doing.  Also, to get into semantics a bit: Mike did not write "Santa", he rewrote lyrics for "Kokomo".  Nor does Mike write songs.  He writes lyrics and relies on musicians to end up with real songs.  I think in the past he was a fantastic lyricist and his singing parts are now legendary.  But Mike Love writes lyrics, not songs.  Dennis wrote songs.  Carl wrote songs.  Thank (insert deity or lack thereof here) that Brian still is.

For what it's worth, Michael does know how to play guitar, he was just never required to within the band's ranks. Obviously, his arranging skills are a bit limited. The best idea I can think of for his songwriting, if we're going to call it that since it's frowned upon by some, is that he noodled around on the guitar with some chords and then when he had a melody he liked, he went to the Wilsons or Al to help flesh out the idea.

And that's why he's not a songwriter, my friend.  Merely a decent lyricist who relies on others for a complete song.  Not a hatchet job - as I said I admire so much he's done, well more than I'll ever accomplish - but it is what it is.  And this is not a glorification of Brian either.  It's just facts. 

Michael's achievements are modest in the grand scheme of things indeed. Of course I'm more cynical and argue that even Dennis' contributions outweigh everyone else's (bar Brian from 1961-67) combined.

Dennis was the Marvin Gaye to everyone else's Jordinaires.

Bad analogy. A better one would be that Dennis was the Diana Ross to everyone else's rest of the Motown roster, from a Berry Gordy point of view.

Oh my. and then...

 
Ok, how much are you willing to adjust your 'facts' about Mike's songwriting? Just drop it.

But then, the very pinnacle of Saturday...  ::)


Oh my. You sir know NOTHING about music whatsoever and this forum would be better off without your "contributions". Jeez...

Destroyer is a breath of fresh air.

And you just dissed a mod at the same time (especially when he just said something that can't really be disagreed with).  Maybe the board would better off without circus animals?

Right on RobMac! :h5

Really?  :lol

Hey, you can always complain to this same mod about my behaviour. Good luck with that!  ;)