The Smiley Smile Message Board

Anyone listen to these guys?  I’m amazed at the amount of interaction between the Beach Boys and Jan and Dean—from Dean Torrance singing lead on Barbara Ann to BW’s co-author credits on several of J&D’s best tunes.

J&D definitely had their share of duff tracks, and Dean seemed to have an unfortunate ability to sing off-key.  But even apart from the surf hits, J&D had some brilliant songs that would have made BW proud—Like a Summer Rain, Mulholland, a great cover of Summertime, Summertime, etc.  And their version of Vegetables blows away BW’s Smiley Smile version.

I love Jan & Dean... Great surf music! ;D

Yeah, aside from the BB and Neil Young, it's Jan & Dean all the way!!! I'm even wearing a Bel-Air Bandits T-shirt right now 8)
I bet Mark Moore has a thing or two to say on the subject.
Just for the record, idid not one, but two, yes two reports on Jan & Dean in 8th grade. My English teacher's only comment ws "You sure a know a lot about Jan & Dean!"

I love them myself and have all their vinyl LP's. I have a liking for their early tracks with the heavy echo. Great off beat humor on some of those.

While they don't strike a chord with me as much as The Beach Boys, some of their best material comes pretty close. I used to virtually hate the occasional off-key singing but nowadays I'm mostly fine with it.

Hope we're going to hear Carnival of Sound in pristine sound quality one day.
Really enjoyed The Complete Liberty Singles compilation, which certainly is among my most-played records of recent years. Some of their best songs I hadn't even heard before, like "A Surfer's Dream" or "It's As Easy As 1-2-3".

I gew up on Jan and Dean as well as The Beach Boys. My cousin and I were surf music freaks. I have great memories of us listening to them. Jan's death hit me like a brick to the face.

On a side note; the "Save For A Rainy Day Theme" is probably the all time greatest "lost" instrumentals/"themes" of the 1960's or any other era.

Carnival of Sound is coming out officially this fall . . . with the "pristine quality" you're hoping for . . . and those familiar with the crappy acetate bootlegs are in for a real treat.

It's enlightening to compare what Jan Berry was working on in '67-'68, at the same time Brian Wilson was working on Smile and other material.

I'll post the specifics here when I get the OK.

M.

I really hope there is an LP release.

That's the plan.

GREAT news!  :-D  Really looking forward to this.

Awesome news !!


J&D were great. Many people don't take them serious, but listening to Jan's songs and arrangements you'll find a lot of complex, fantastic stuff. Brian was very inspired and influenced by Berry's productions. Say what you want, but Jand & Dean were a great musical act. Unfortunately for far too short a time.
"Batman" has got to be one of the best albums of '66 imo and "Carnival of sound" would've been even one step higher. 

Wonderful!

Holy Moly! Tell me 1Jan1 is next!

 :-\

how about some info on "Hang 50" ???

My favorite track of theirs (among many) is "I Found A Girl", by Phil Sloan and Steve Barri.

Surfer Joe: Oh yeah! That's been on of my favorites as well. I've always loved that guitar intro, & Jan's vocal on that is great

That's exciting to hear about Carnival of Sound!!

The only reservation I have about Carnival of Sound is that it includes the song "Only A Boy"...unless that song was meant to be taken ironically.

I don't think it was meant to be taken ironically at all.

Well, wtf, you can take it ironically or not. The production is very good and the music isn't that bad either.

I like the rest of the album...I just think a pro-war song is a little out of place on a 60s psychedelic pop album.

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but.....I think Jan & Dean (especially Jan) suffer(ed) from the same problem that plagued Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys, which is the subject matter of the majority of their best songs. It's hard for the casual listener, or actually most listeners, to look past the lyrics - because they're so visual and entertaining - and to focus on the brilliant arrangements and production. Therefore, Jan & Dean and their music never got the credit they deserved. Yeah, they sold their share of records, but in particularly Jan, never got the credit or recognition he should've.

For example, listen to "Horace, The Swingin' School Bus Driver", one of my favorite Jan & Dean songs. There's so much going on in that record! How did Jan write something like that? But, the humorous lyrics somehow deflect the attention away from the music and toward a wacky bus driver. Oh well....

BTW, a Jan & Dean song that everytime I listen to it I think should've been a hit - and still wish The Beach Boys would cover - is "You're Blowin' My Mind". That's a special tune.

EDIT: I completely forgot why I posted in the first place. Jan & Dean should be in the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame.

They're Not???!!!!

No, although they had more hits than many others who are in there. And their influence especially on the californian music scene can't be denied. But oh well, record business and J&D have a long and hard relationship.....  :police:




Right on. And the fact that Jan didn't get some of his writing credits didn't help neither (the credits were restored in the 90s I believe). Plus because of Jan's accident and the trouble surroundig "Save for a rainy day" "Carnival of sound" and all the contractual stuff closed the dorr for Jan&Dean to step ito the psychedelic or "serious" rock music.

I also think that the last decades of being a nostalgia act, trying too hard to cover the Beach Boys doing the same, were destroying too, to their legacy. But it kept Jan going and that was a good thing

I'm mixed on this. As viable recording artists, yeah, it didn't add anything. But there was something about those comeback years, something so real, heartbreaking yet inspirational at the same time, that ADDED to the legend. They were living that movie. It made the legend become REAL. And they have to be given credit for it. I thought "the comeback" would give them the credit that would catapault them into the Hall Of Fame. I still think they'll get in some day....

I see what you mean, but I think it would've been much greater with a class act. You know, playing Jan & Dean stuff like "I found a girl" "You really know how to hurt a guy" and of course the surf and car-songs. But imo they were way to heavy on the Beach Boys/surf-cover-tribute-band from a point on.
Ever heard Jan's "How how I love her"? One of the most beautiful things. I think they should've continued making records (which also can be a therapy, like touring) and playing some of the tunes live.

As for the Hall Of Fame, I don't think it will happen without some big J&D-revival or people asking for them to be included.

Nothing stirs more J&D controversy than "Only A Boy" and "The Universal Coward."

"Only A Boy" was used as the first WB single simply because it featured Jan's pre-accident singing voice (and Dean's too, for that matter). WB was counting on the J&D name (and Sadler had recently spent five straight weeks at #1 with a Vietnam song). That's why it was also slated for the album. But there's no question it doesn't fit with the Sunshine-Psych stuff that Jan was doing after the accident. Lyrically, "Only A Boy" is indeed a square peg on Carnival of Sound.

People also have different perceptions. J&D insider and radio guru Roger Christian said the radio execs' take was that "Only A Boy" was actually an ANTI-war song, and they were told not to play it. Think about it. A song that solicits sympathy for a young American soldier killed in Vietnam (and those he left behind). Listeners can take it both ways . . . (And how about the outrage many feel today for the thousands of soldiers who have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Largely unpopular wars, just like Vietnam).

"The Universal Coward" also touches a nerve with people. Some take it very seriously, while others don't. It was a spoof on the anti-war movement, and was included on the same album (Folk 'n Roll) with one of the most famous anti-war anthems of the period, "Eve of Destruction." Anything was fair game for J&D.

I don't think it's about Jan being a Lefty or a Righty. As far as politically-minded listeners are concerned, I think both sides can take something from it.

To me, "Universal Coward" is biting satire. And I'm not a Right Winger (by any stretch of the imagination). Lyrics aside, it features a killer backing track.

As for Carnival of Sound, the album is aptly named. It's a mash-up of different styles, including the old chestnuts Jan had started tinkering with before the accident.

M.

 ???

so the new Jan and Dean CD/DVD set "Hang Fifty".. no one knows anything about it?

wow....

Like the event itself, it was a one-off thing to benefit the animal shelter (a good cause). Otherwise, not available to the general public.

M.

Thanks Mark

now that I know this I can stop looking for it....


Peace

Doc Smiley

That's great ! jan's before-accident "Lousiana man" (with a killer leadvocal from Dean) is absolutely fascinating !! Much better than the COS-version imho

Mark, I got a great wonky question for ya...

I've heard conflicting reports on whether Dean was involved at all with Jan's post-accident sessions in the '60s.  The prevailing view is that he had no involvement whatsoever, but I've seen at least one source that said that he at least showed up to one vocal session.

Here's why I ask...I could swear I hear Dean's voice on "Laurel and Hardy" (of course I swore I heard Dennis' voice on Kenny Loggins' "I'm Alright" and it turned out to be Eddie Money), there's a high pitched kind of a "wha!" on the bridge section that is so unmistakably him.  Now, I asked this question in GOLDMINE when I was a young buck about 1990, and Dean's aide at the time forwarded it to Dean who actually personally answered the questions and he personally denied it then, but I've since learned not to totally trust peoples' recollections about such things.

What's your take then, Mark...Dean on "Laurel and Hardy," or no way?

Adam,

I hear the part you're talking about. I've been listening a lot to the original source tapes (for the forthcoming release), which obviously are a lot clearer than what most people have heard. There's a similar part on "Mulholland," aside from the female harmony line.

To my ear, I don't hear anything that stands out as being distinctly Dean.

But it's certainly possible that Dean made a cameo appearance somewhere on the album (aside from "Only A Boy," which he's definitely on). "Laurel & Hardy" or otherwise. I wouldn't rule that out at all. I can document the other vocalists on the album, but it's still not unrealistic that Dean might have contributed to a session.

Early on, I used to listen to "Love & Hate" and think that it was a good candidtate for Dean being part of the harmony mix. But the "Jan & Dean Label" cuts turned out to be among the best documented Carnival tracks. I have the AFTRA vocal contracts, and Dean isn't there.

I also used to think that Dean might have been part of the spoken parts at the end of "Mulholland." But having heard the source tapes, that's pretty much ruled out. But Jan IS part of that, and it's extended from what people have heard, and funny as hell.

People will be surprised at how well Jan spoke in the two years after the accident. It got worse from there.

Bottom line, it's not out of the question that Dean may have made a post-accident vocal cameo on Carnival.

M.

Ed, thank you for that post ! It's interesting because I've never heard much about what a relationship Dennis and Jan had. It's known (well, I'd read it somewhere) that in the 60s Dennis and Dean did alot of racing and of course Dean did the shots for POB, but as I said, I never herad anything about Dennis and Jan (except one thing that includes a autographed single by J&D, Dennis and Elvis, which a fan let them sign on one of Elvis' famous football-games, but of course that could be a fake)

Ed,

Good insight. When we worked on the A&E Bio in '04, we arranged for there to be minimal people present for Jan's interview, so he'd be more comfortable. Instead, they jammed the room with production staff, and it tripped him up significantly.

As for Dennis and Jan, I interviewed a lady (Denise) who witnessed the dynamic between Dennis and Jan in 1965. Pretty good stuff.

M.

Anything you could tell us?

Popsicle is just a perfect pop song.  Recorded in '63, released on an album, then released again as a single in '66, and was a hit.  Very, very few songs could have transcended that time period, which in terms of social and musical change, was an eon.  But Popsicle is so, so catchy, and can probably mean a lot of different things to different people.

"Some people buy popsicles just for kicks
But me and my baby we save the sticks
To keep brother and sister quiet as a mouse
We give them popsicle sticks to build a popsicle house"

Just can't beat that.

I agree very much ! It has dumb lyrics, a simple and fun melody and a fantastic production with a great beat. Very hypnotizing imo

Because I read that Dean "boycotted" the song, I always assumed that Jan was dead serious there. For that reason, I've always hated that song with a passion.

He also boycotted "Beginning of an End" too I believe (and I also believe "You Really Know How to Hurt a Guy")

Jan & Dean's personal relationship and problems weren't rooted in politics. And Dean is currently a Republican who lives in Right Wing Orange County . . . a Republican enclave in Blue-state California.

Dean didn't sing on "I Can't Wait To Love You" either, a nice track that was also on Jan's single and on J&D's Folk 'n Roll album in '65.

No, Dean didn't boycott "A Beginning from An End." Dean does in fact sing on that record. He just didn't like the song. Lyrically, the song is way too melodramatic . . . but again, with a fantastic backing track. It bubbled under at #109 on Billboard [slightly higher than Dean's later "Yellow Balloon" (#111)].

"You Really Know How To Hurt a Guy" was a Top 30 hit in 1965 . . . #27 on Billboard.

M.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up Mark!

Aha, so that's why Mike likes him so much!

Same here. Everyone should get this CD as it's the only place right now where you can hear Jan's original mono-mixes. I was very surprised at how different and (in all cases) better they do sound. The backgroundvocals on the stereoversions of "The little old lady from Pasadena", "The Anaheim,..." and "Batman" always soundedn kinda thin and a little uncontrolled to me, but the monomixes have the bass-vocals up (they are not very good to hear on the stereomixes) and it all comes togetehr fitting like a glove. Totally great !! Plus the instrumental tracks have alot more power too.


Something that I asked myself the last weeks:
Do you guys think that "George fell into his french horn" (the part were the instruments are actually playing) was in any way inspired or maybe an advanced version of what Jan did on "Dead man's curve" 's citation on "Pop symphony"?

I wonder if Dean was ever considered as a possible guest star on "The O.C", living in Orange County and all.

IMO, these lyrics are so... well, politically incorrect, to say the least... that I think that even most right-wing Republicans will agree that they're probably not very appropriate for a commercial music act.

I think they work as a joke.

That's funny. I always thought that "wait a second baby" sounded alot like Jan


EDIT:
BTW found this pic of J&D and Dennis on the official Jan Berry-site. Shot by Ed Roach:

(http://www.jananddean-janberry.com/gallery/roachclips/roach4_jd_d.jpg)

In a perfect world, the Beach Boys would have traded Mike and a performer to be named later (Bruce) for Jan in '62 or '63.  Jan would have been working away on Good Vibrations in April 1966, thereby avoiding his car crash.  Jan's compositional and production talents would have taken some of the pressure off Brian, allowing Smile to be completed and released.  And Mike, Dean and Bruce would have put together an entire album of songs about how cool the kids in Utah are, including Tears for Taylorsville and Provo Is the (Nearest Faraway) Place.

I thought about this too. Jan's voice was very much like Mike's, even Brian mentioned this somewhere. But I don't think it would've turned out good. Brian and Jan both were great artists but also leaders and none would let the other take over complete as they both did on their individual acts. Brian would never let anybody else produce his music and Jan wouldn't listen to anyone telling him what to do.






Well, until now it was just a cool picture to me....  ;D

Haha! . . . Hey Dennis, we're over here, man !! 

LMAO !

Hey Mark, I have a Jan and Dean question, and I figured you'd probably be the best person to ask. In the DeadMan's Curve movie, there is a scene with a post accident Jan trying to record a song in the studio. I was hoping you could tell me the name of the song. Is it an actual song he did? Or is a made up song, like they did with the Dennis Wilson charactor in Summer Dreams?

It was a made up song. I think they wanted to use Tinsel Town but couldn't.

That song was completely fictional.

Just like you never see Jan producing the music . . . another blatant falsehood spread by the movie.

Mark, another question. On the Batman-single, there's one voice that totally sounds like Brian's to me. It's the "no why"-spoken bit after "did you see that strange car?". Is this indeed Brian or does it just sound like him?

Mark- I am sure this has been discussed before-but based on your listening to the tapes-1) What are the sessions that Brian was at and took part in? (as compared to just co-writing the song but not singing on it)  2) Brian is listed on the Nov 14 1963 AFM sheet for "Deadman's Curve" (which was re-produced in Dumb Angel 4)-does this mean he actually played on the song, as compared to just vocals? And is this the single version or the album version? Is he on both or only one?  3) Did he play on any post 1963 sessions other than that Vegetables version?  By the way-my favorite Jan and Dean song is "Easy as One Two Three"...very pretty melody and nice singing by Jan and his girlfriend.

Yea its weird how Dean used to be part of BW posse + in 80"s becomes close to Mike..If you check out the pic takin at airport in 67 with all of BW friends
Dean is in the pic along with Mark Volman..As far as Orange County goes still a great place to live..I dont care about politics.. Both sides are bought + sold..The recession is over ?? ...They are opening a new winco supermarket here in Hemet..10 000 people applied for 230 jobs..My wife got lucky + got one..And she has a degree in accounting....And ended up there..Dont buy what talkin heads are sayin..Ill get off my soapbox now..LOL..

Brian could have played on DMC, or Jan could just have decided to add BW to the AFM contract. The 11-14-63 session was for the "Drag City" album version of DMC. Brian contributed to backing vocals on that version.

Brian doubled the lead vocal with Jan on "Surf City" in '63 and "Ride the Wild Surf" in '64. Brian also contributed to backing vocals on both, and a little falsetto.

Brian contributed to the harmonies on "Gonna Hustle You" and "Drag City."

Jan's arrangement for "Ride the Wild Surf" knocked Brian out completely. Well documented on session tapes. High praise from Brian, warm and effusive. Brian comes across as very relaxed and comfortable working with Jan.

M.

Is that Danny Hutton on the left?

Jan. Berry.

A little falsetto ?  :)  On "Surf City" he's all over the chorus. Just like Dean said.

I thought that was Vic from the Matadors...?

It's supposedly Tony Minichiello of the Matadors. When I listen to Matadors/Dories tracks featuring falsetto, I can hear it and make the connection . . . (or can I?)

Even isolated, the "Two girls for every boy" just doesn't sound like Brian to me.

But the subtle falsetto on "Surf City, here we come" hits me as Brian 100 percent.

But our ears can play tricks on us . . . and we have to accept this reality, because I've experienced it myself . . . (and I'm not tone deaf, by any means).

Having heard the session tapes, I now know that Brian contributed some falsetto (along with Dean) to "Ride the Wild Surf" . . . in addition to BW doubling the lead vocal with Jan.

Vic Diaz (Matadors) has told me more than once that Dean never sang on "Surf City." Vic stands by that assertion today. And Vic was at those (often) after-midnight vocal sessions.

Jan swore that Dean was never on "Surf City" . . . and Dean confirmed that fact in multiple public interviews over the years (all documented) . . . But now, in the present era, Dean swears he sang on "Surf City."

Gonna Wrestle You . . .

M.

Thanks for the info!  :) One more question for you. Did the whole ending scene in the movie ever actually happen? I'm talking about the scene where they lipsync to a backing tape that stops working, and all hell breaks loose.

It happened in 1973 but they were booed off the stage and it wasn't that happy ending.

Researchers golden rule #47(b) - if someone in recent times contradicts what they've been saying for decades, they're probably mistaken. Memories were fresher, more reliable some 45 years ago.

And Mark is spot on - sometimes we hear what we want to hear. Guilty myself...  ;D

Is there any more word on this release? 

In the pipeline and on track . . . Still finalizing the liner notes . . . and photos/images have been submitted.

No other specifics yet.

M.

With respect to Dean being in the Mike camp in the '80s...IIRC Dean was one of the moving forces in prying Brian away from Eugene Landy in the late '80s.  Which, if you think about it, is pretty badass of him, considering he wasn't even in the family or the group.  Mark or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.

Dean to me has said some really kind things about all of them. I think he liked all the Beach Boys in different ways. Brian musically, Al and Carl as performers, Mike to chase girls with, Dennis to race with etc. He has some very good insights on the group.

Is this a vinyl only release, or will there be a CD version?

Both CD and Vinyl.

M.

Hello All,

With the pending official release of Jan & Dean's Carnival of Sound by Rhino Handmade (in early 2010) . . . a 1 CD / 1 LP set, with plenty of bonus tracks and extensive liner notes . . . we've upgraded to a new Jan & Dean forum at the following address:

http://jananddean-janberry.com/boards/index.php

We're now hosting the new board on our own Website, instead of using an external server.

So please register and create a user account on the new forum . . . (and don't forget to add your favorite Jan & Dean avatar).

The old board will still be around for a while . . . but everyone should begin posting at the new site, as of December 31, 2009.

This Jan & Dean forum change has been a long time in coming . . . and the release of Carnival of Sound is a good time to make it happen.

Mark M.

It would sure be interesting to hear some more on this...

Hello, are there any comprehensive books or a documentary about Jan & Dean out there?

Over five years between posts.. Wow! I wonder if that's a record.

Yes, 5 years is up there but the quoted post is relevant in light of the Brian bio and the kudos Melinda gets. I wonder if Ray Lawlor or anyone else can provide some confirmation?

I wish they would do a documentary about them with footage etc I would buy it, maybe a Jan Berry "songwriter/Producer" series like the "songwriter" series about Brian... also they need to release "Deadman's curve-The Jan and Dean story" on dvd/buray

As long as we have no documentary, try this:

http://jananddean-janberry.com/main/

COMING IN 2015 . . .

A NEW BOOK

 

CRAZY HOURS: In the Studio and On the Run with JAN & DEAN (tentative title)

By Mark A. Moore

Publisher: McFarland & Co.

 

An in-depth reference work presenting day-by-day entries covering recording sessions, single and album releases, concerts and appearances, film and television, behind-the-scenes business and legal matters, chart positions, and other entries for historical context, 1958-1968.

 

Additional data will include studio invoice details, copyright registration dates for all songs written/recorded by Jan & Dean, and BMI registration dates for all songs written by Jan Berry.

 

Recording session details will include studio locations, authorizations, recording times, Wrecking Crew personnel, session details, tape box data, and much more.

I never read the book but had a glance through in store when it first came out. Looked pretty good.

When We Get to Surf City: A Journey Through America in Pursuit of Rock and Roll, Friendship, and Dreams
by Bob Greene

http://www.amazon.com/When-Get-Surf-City-Friendship-ebook/dp/B0017SYMBC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1430693995&sr=1-1&keywords=bob+greene+when+we+get+to+surf+city

 Pretty good book on second phase Jan & Dean and life on the road. Contains next to nothing on the pre-surf years.

Re R&R HoF snub: I demand an explanation from Jann Wenner...

Actually it is a book by columnist Bob Greene and his experiences touring with Jan & Dean a few weeks a summer, over a time frame of a decade. It's not meant to be a history of them. A very fun read.

He also wrote " Be True To Your School", which is a revisiting of his junior year in high school in 1964. He had to keep a journal back then for an English class, detailing day to day activities. As luck would have it, he kept it and it was the basis of the book. This was also a very good book, especially if you were a teenager at that time. I was.

I recommend both of these books.

yup I need to add some jan and dean to my collection.  It's mad, coz I felt drawn to this kind of music in my early teens but didn't investigate further.  I spose there was no internet out there and there was Morrissey and the smiths.  No wonder I was miserable for so long in my life.  glad I've been reunited with this great stuff.  Jan and dean looked like good fun.

I've been meaning to get into Jan & Dean some more lately, so I might as well take advantage of the revival of this thread to ask a few questions.  Growing up, I heard a lot of J&D on road trips with my friend and his dad when I was very young.  This was before any real exposure to the Beach Boys.  When I discovered the Beach Boys, I first thing I noticed was that I recognized Brian's voice from some of J&D's recordings.  I also remember thinking that, as much as I had come to love the J&D's songs I heard, I wished it was the Beach Boys singing them.  From then on, J&D to me were like a rough draft of the Beach Boys.  I compared them (maybe I shouldn't have), and they could never hold a candle to BB arrangements, Brian's falsetto and the sibling harmony.

I've tried to rediscover J&D several times in the last decade or so, but have been underwhelmed.  I bought "Ride the Wild Surf" a few years ago on iTunes, but couldn't get past that awkward delay/sync issue on the word "surf" in the chorus.  Plucking around on Spotify last year resulted in a lot of "meh."  So, J&D fans, help me out.  Please give me a playlist of songs I should listen to in order to internalize and appreciate these guys. 

For a start make sure you get this one:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Liberty-Singles-Dean/dp/B001AVUAIK

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-oPXgMMAL._SX355_.jpg)


These are Jan's original mono mixes and not the terrible stereo releases that flood the market or the re-recordings by Dean that you mostly find.

I primarily use Spotify, and it's hit and miss.  I am seeing a lot of the crappy stereo mixes as well as the re-records (why??????).  The first J&D track I clicked on (because of Brian's involvement) was "Don't You Just Know It."  Next up was the re-recorded "Dead Man's Curve."  Based on those two tracks, I swore off J&D for about a year.

I don't have a clue about spotify and that stuff but can't you search for certain albums?

I like this one:

All The Hits: From Surf City to Drag City ('96)  (w/ excellent stereo versions)

And also essential:

Anthology ('71)

Gotta Take That One Last Ride ('74)

And I love this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpLz-Bl4jBM

Jan & Dean are very, very different from the Beach Boys even though they seem very similar. The vocal blend is nowhere near as good, of course, since they are a duo, although they often used other singers as well, but Jan himself pretty much does Mike Love's act but is funnier and more charismatic.  Unfortunately as a singer he wasn't as good as Mike-although there is no shame in that, as Mike is a great singer. The biggest thing about J&D is Jan's production, which is almost as good as Brian's. If you listen to tunes he wrote with Brian like "New Girl In School" and "Deadman's Curve" you will hear productions that are just as good as Brian's best. The other thing about J&D is their music is crazy, much crazier than the Beach Boys. They were huge on humor and it came through in their albums. I think their best albums are The Little Old Lady From Pasadena, which is basically a concept album with car songs involving senior citizens. How crazy is that? Great album, lots of catchy and funny songs like "Horace, the Swingin' School Bus Driver", "One Piece Topless Bathing Suit" and of course "The Anaheim, Azusa And Cucamonga Sewing Circle, Book Review And Timing Association". I also think Deadman's Curve/The New Girl In School is a good album, and of course the craziest J&D album is the "Jan and Dean Meet Batman" album which is really wild and is the American counterpart to "The Who Sell Out".

You're not kidding.  The vocal blend frankly sucks (with the exception of tunes where Brian is involved).  I can't really take J&D seriously as a vocal act for that reason.  Don't get me wrong-- I like the vocal blend, mainly because it has that youthful, "two everyday dudes from SoCal too busy having fun to worry about polished vocals" vibe.  But yeah, quality vox and harmonies they are not.

I've always wondered why J&D didn't seem to care about the vocal qualities of their records, but a light bulb lit up for me recently when somebody on another thread pointed out that J&D were primarily satirists.  This made me think of some of my favorite TV satire, MAD! (the short cartoon series), whose send-ups of popular culture are brilliant.  They don't worry about great-quality graphics, per se, because their primary job is to lampoon.  Is that the case with J&D?  It's not true satire, because they weren't trying to ridicule SoCal/surf culture, but perhaps vocal blend wasn't as important to them as decent arrangement and cultural caricature.  Am I way off here?

<<I've always wondered why J&D didn't seem to care about the vocal qualities of their records, but a light bulb lit up for me recently when somebody on another thread pointed out that J&D were primarily satirists.  This made me think of some of my favorite TV satire, MAD! (the short cartoon series), whose send-ups of popular culture are brilliant.  They don't worry about great-quality graphics, per se, because their primary job is to lampoon.  Is that the case with J&D?  It's not true satire, because they weren't trying to ridicule SoCal/surf culture, but perhaps vocal blend wasn't as important to them as decent arrangement and cultural caricature.  Am I way off here?>>

The reason they were such effective satirists is because they made great records.  In terms of "vocal blend" I'm not sure what this means.  The Beach Boys had a genetic vocal blend in the three brothers.  The stack of Mike, Dennis, Carl, Al and Brian has a unique resonance all it's own.  No stack sounds quite like it.

But to say Jan & Dean RECORDS had a poor vocal blends or suggest that Jan & Dean "didn't seem to care about the vocal quality of their records"  is inaccurate.

Jan was a brilliant producer and a perfectionist, more so in many ways than Brian in those days.  Dean once told me he always felt the Beach Boys records (we're talking pre-Pet Sounds) were looser than Jan's productions... but Jan's productions sounded a little too perfect.

Jan & Dean themselves - by their own admission - were only fair vocalists.  Their weaknesses are all too apparent on the LP Jan & Dean Take Linda Surfin', where they were forced (by budgetary considerations) to track all their own backgrounds.  But on later records, as budgets and chart success increased, Jan (who was a brilliant vocal arranger as well - studying Gregorian chants in '66, some of which ended up on J&D Meet Batman) used the cream of LA session vocalists (including The Fantastic Baggys aka Sloan & Barri) for J&D records, sometimes even to the exclusion of Jan & Dean ("Move Out Little Mustang").  The arrangements (and "blend") on songs like Anaheim, Azuza, Freeway Flyer, My Mighty GTO and Little Old Lady From Pasadena are of particular note.  Little Old Lady went through countless vocal overdub sessions before the final master.  I think on that one alone, four different singers (including both Jan & Dean) are singing pieces of the falsetto part).

Jan's vocal arranging, double tracking, triple tracking and quadruple tracking was the 4 track stereo/1960s equivalent of auto-tune today, in terms of vocal perfection.  Thus Dean's comment about those songs (at least the ones in 1964) sounding a bit "too perfect."

Was he talking about the vocals, the tracks or the overall record? I always felt (and still do) that Jan's productions sound rougher and ballsier than Brian's whose records were more of a sweeter kind imo.

<Was he talking about the vocals, the tracks or the overall record? I always felt (and still do) that Jan's productions sound rougher and ballsier than Brian's whose records were more of a sweeter kind imo.>

All of the above.  Dean admired the looseness and sometimes slight sloppiness of some of Brian's records, more spontaneity. I think Jan spent days just trying to get the high hat to sound a certain way on Ride the Wild Surf.

Jan's best productions, to me... Drag City... Deadman's Curve... Little Old Lady... Anaheim... My Mighty GTO... Ride the Wild Surf... Horace... I Gotta Drive... Freeway Flyer... Three Window Coupe... B Gas Rickshaw... as some examples, always sound to me like finely tuned race cars... huge band, pounding rhythm guitar, double drums, brass, etc.  They have a roar and adrenalin rush to them.

"I found a girl" to me is one of the best productions he did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X55kBhJyvg8



Something that shall not be forgotten imo is that Jan also did some very nice outside productions and/or writing; even scoring Top 30 hits with those songs, something that Brian unfortunately never achieved with his productions outside of the Beach Boys. Someday I hope we see a "Pet Projects" kind of release of Jan's outside work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3HY2b_zGr8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBoj0xLpJg0

Hi ; someone just pointed out to me that you had asked me this question about Dean Torrence/Landy .  I never heard that one before; ever. Never heard his name mentioned back then or since.  I think that the movie will answer most questions, or as many as you can in two hours ; everyone involved was a stickler for accuracy in portraying the story, both good and bad.

I gotta say as far as Jan & Dean go, I don't understand why they didn't do great material like "You Really Know How to Hurt a Guy" and "I Found a Girl" live after they reunited in the '70s. Was this stuff too hard for Jan to sing? I don't think so.

Seems like they just settled for being a half-assed Beach Boys rip-off group, doing stuff like "California Girls" (and in later years "Kokomo") even though they had nothing to do with Jan & Dean. I definitely don't think their live shows after a certain point did anything but kinda ruin their brand. Which is a shame because they did have a nice handful of really good material.

J&D made two great albums with Drag City
and Ride the Wild Surf, everything else was just singles-Surf city, deadmans curve, little old lady etc. The greatest rock duo of all time in my opinion.

there's a version of Jan singing "I found a girl" on a boot and it sounds like he's having a hard time with it, also didn't Dean say he didn't like "You really know how to hurt a guy."? also one must remember that there's a huge difference in the mix of their vocals in the mono mixes compared to those stereo mixes, it sounds to me that the vocals are way too loud in the stereo mixes, sometimes to the point of where it hurts my ears, I'm glad to finally hear the mono mixes n the Liberty singles cd as well as buying original vinyl..

<< also didn't Dean say he didn't like "You really know how to hurt a guy."? >>
No, he did not like the song.  But the one he walked out of the studio on to go sing on Barbara Ann with the Beach Boys was "A Beginning from An End."  At the same time Jan was cutting YRKHTHAG, Dean was cutting a solo version of the Jamies hit Summertime, which remained unreleased until 1966, post accident.  That shows the different direction they were going.  Liberty was pushing Jan to record more "serious" songs.

<<also one must remember that there's a huge difference in the mix of their vocals in the mono mixes compared to those stereo mixes, it sounds to me that the vocals are way too loud in the stereo mixes, sometimes to the point of where it hurts my ears, I'm glad to finally hear the mono mixes n the Liberty singles cd as well as buying original vinyl.>>

I'm very fond of Jan's stereo mixes, with the exception of the FOLK 'n ROLL album, which is more binaural than anything else... most of the instruments on one channel, most of the vocals on the other.  New Girl in School is the same way.

Because Dean didn't want to do them, for a variety of reasons. After the accident, Dean was in charge of the live portion of "Jan and Dean" and controlled the set lists. Jan, because of his brain damage, had memory issues, including remembering the words to his own songs (there are stories about how he had to listen to the songs they were going to sing that night, songs he had written and produced, in order to relearn the words.) So, part of the set list choices was to help Jan. The other reason, I believe, is that Dean didn't really care. Like his good friend Mike Love, Dean is very focused on the commercial aspects of music--he is no artist with a capital A. His Jan and Dean live show--like Mike's BB's--was about giving the audience a good time, not about performing deep cuts. He'd rather do Beach Boys songs that everyone knows than an obscure J&D song that only the hardcore fans will appreciate.

I absolutely love Dean's rendition of Summertime! In a way it sounds almost melancholy, or is that just me?

I appreciate your response, Steve. It does shine some light.  I'm probably making premature judgments, and that's not really fair.  Aside from the hits I've loved since I was a kid, so far I've only really experienced the Drag City and Ride the Wild Surf albums, along with a few other tracks here and there and some re-records (again, I ask- why???).  While it may be inaccurate to suggest that J&D had poor vocal blends, I am suggesting just that.  At least on the material I've been able to digest.  Honestly, I don't think either of them would have made first cuts at my high school's glee club tryout.  I mentioned above that I like their vocals for nostalgic reasons, but when it comes to things like vocal muscle control, pitch and inflection, they just don't sound good. Almost like they didn't ever rehearse.

Which leads me to speculate that the vocal quality of their records is something they didn't care about-- or at least cared less about than arrangement, lyrics, subject matter, etc.  To me, that would make sense.

<<was about giving the audience a good time, not about performing deep cuts.>>

I saw a great show at Southern Illinois University, 1986.  Jan was in great voice, Chris Farmer played trumpet on Deadman's Curve, Cowsill on drums sang Indian Lake and during Barbara Ann they did an extended medley that included Hang On Sloopy and the Batman theme.

http://endlessskyvideo.blogspot.com/2008/12/endless-sky-volume-ii.html

Has anybody seen these DVD's or can review them?  Is it worth checking out?

I think the set list got worse as the 80's wore on.  Their best sets where in the late 70s, when they first started touring again. A lot of BB's yes, but you would get a lot more J&D material: Jennie Lee, Baby Talk, Linda, Surf City, Drag City, New Girl in School, Ride the Wild Surf, Sidewalk Surfin, Little Old Lady from Pasadena, Popsicle on occasion, and Jan singing You've Got to Hide Your Love Away, which they had done in the 60s.

I highly recommend the Dean Torrence edition. In fact, the entire series of Open/Endless Sky is worth getting.

On the Endless Sky DVDs Dean is a great (and funny) storyteller, with just the right edge of sarcasm.  Dave Beard knows the right questions to ask and Dean is relaxed enough with him to tell some stories no one has ever heard.  The Ice Cream man story is worth the price of admission.  Dean also does a dead-on Mike Love impersonation though I don't recall if he does it here.

Is "A Beginning from an End" meant to be a serious song?  Admittedly it's not funny in the slightest, but the way the spoken interlude goes on and on and takes up nearly half of the song's running time I've always wondered if it wasn't meant as a parody of the teen tragedy song in some way.  I have to admit that the intentionality behind that song totally escapes me--frankly, I can't blame Dean for walking out.

<<Is "A Beginning from an End" meant to be a serious song?  Admittedly it's not funny in the slightest, but the way the spoken interlude goes on and on and takes up nearly half of the song's running time I've always wondered if it wasn't meant as a parody of the teen tragedy song in some way.  I have to admit that the intentionality behind that song totally escapes me--frankly, I can't blame Dean for walking out.>>

I've been listening to this track for about 38 years and try as I might, I don't think it has a shred of parody in it.  This is Jan being serious.

what am I missing here? seems the song is about a mom that died at childbirth, baby surviving. Why would that be thought of as a parody?

I wasn't referring to the subject matter so much as the structure of the song.  The fact that the spoken interlude is so overlong and melodramatic (I know that the subject matter is also dramatic, but generally the idea is to get the emotion into the music) made me think Jan was half-parodying spoken interludes.  I don't really think the track works either way, though.

It's obviously meant to be a pop music spin on a mother dying in childbirth; a serious take on a serious subject and quite sincere.  Jan was no doubt inspired by stories he'd heard in med school.  The problem with the song - like Only A Boy - is that the lyrics are too "on the nose" - too obvious. 

I highly doubt that I'm the first one to point this out, but has anyone noticed that Surf City and Little Old Lady from Pasadena are essentially the same song?

I know this was pretty common at the same (ie. No Particular Place to Go / School Days).  Even Brian and the Boys had a lot of similar songs. 

Also, does anyone know why The Beach Boys covered Little Old Lady in concert in the old days, and not Surf City?  Maybe because Murry was still bitter about Brian giving away a #1 hit? 

drag city & ride the wild surf were the two solid albums, lil old lady has a few orig cuts..

Even when Jan & Dean tried to be serious their vocals came off as goofy.

<<Even when Jan & Dean tried to be serious their vocals came off as goofy.>>

Care to note some specific examples on more "serious" tracks?  Not quite sure which ones you are referring to?

Well serious might be the wrong word I'm looking for - something Like Deadman's Curve. It's certainly trying for a darker tone than say, Batman but it still sounds kind of cartoony due to their voices.

Deadman's Curve was meant as satire.  It was created to send up the entire "Death Rock" genre (Johnny Angel, Last Kiss, etc.).  Dean called it their "Fargo."

You Really Know How to Hurt A Guy, A Surfer's Dream, It's As Easy as 1-2-3, When It's Over, It's A Shame to Say Goodbye, etc. were all pretty serious without being goofy.

But these guys were always pretty self-deprecating about their own vocal prowess.  They make countless jokes about their own singing on that original Filet of Soul LP (side four of the Anthology album). 

is "You really know how to hurt a guy" on an actual Album? or is it just on the best of compilations? I am collecting them on vinyl and since this is my favorite J&D song I am wanting to find it but I have only seen it (so far) on the "Golden Hits 2" album... but didn't pic it up yet because I was hoping to find a better "Best of.." or regular album with it on it...

As far as I know, the only album it appears on is the Pop Symphony No. 1, which has the backing track. Considering the rest of the songs are remakes, this leads me to believe that this was its "proper" album release.

IIRC it was just a single release and didn't appear on an actual album apart from Best Ofs

GOLDEN HITS VOL. II is it as far as original release. 

THE VERY BEST OF JAN & DEAN VOL. 2 was a great United Artists compilation put out in 1975 that contained the four hit singles Dean left off of the Anthology Album, in order, on side two:
FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD
YOU REALLY KNOW HOW TO HURT A GUY
I FOUND A GIRL
BATMAN
plus
POPSICLE

You can buy it on LP here: http://www.discogs.com/Jan-Dean-The-Very-Best-Of-Jan-Dean/release/4068977

thank you all for your responses I was wondering why I was having a hard time finding it on vinyl...lol...

I have another question... I keep on hearing people in the 60's (from various movies) say "You really know how to hurt a guy." was this a term used before J&D wrote the song and then they wrote the song about the term, or was it a term that people used because of the song?

My friend BLH just sent this photo his daughter took yesterday in Phoenix: 

    (http://i61.tinypic.com/2eoe3bb.jpg)

cool thanks... ;D I wonder if they are closing down because of Trademark disputes etc?