The Smiley Smile Message Board

I know that a lot of songs were recorded for this LP but does anyone know how many exactly?

I think that a couple of Celebration songs were considered but did the band attempt to re-record them?

Were all of the Carl/Bachman collaborations recorded?

Has `Goin` to the Beach` ever been bootlegged?

etc.

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs79.html (http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs79.html) - start in July.  :)

Thanks for the link.

Does anyone know how many of these songs have been made available on bootlegs? And which of them should have been included on the final album?

I think I remember that the backing track was booted, but not the finished version. I'm not sure though. You can hear Mike and Brian working on that song in the TV-special.


I said it once and I'll say it again: "Oh darlin'" is a very, very good song but that terrible (!!!) production ruined everything

Randy Bachman recorded "What's Your Hurry Darlin'" with his band Ironhorse during 1980, and then also recorded his own version of "Keep The Summer Alive" (note abbreviated title) with the band Union the following year ...

Keepin' The Summer Alive is one of those woulda/shoulda/coulda albums. I wish Dennis would've participated in the album. The album is skimpy to begin with - only 10 songs. If Dennis could've contributed two gems, it would've been not only a stronger album, but one of the "groupiest" albums they ever did, almost Sunflower-like, except for the production of course....

Every time I've tried to get into this album I've failed, it's probably my least favorite pre-1990s BB's album.  Am I wrong?  I agree that some Dennis' songs would have made it better, but not by much.  The BB had a lot of talent, but for a long time I've felt that they should have become a vehicle for Dennis Wilson after Sunflower like they were for Brian for most of the 60s. 

Also, I would have thought that a collaboration between Carl Wilson and Randy Bachman would have been produced better material, but they were getting old by then in popular music terms.  Goin' On sounds like a good tune, but one tune does not make an album worthwhile.

To me, the version with Brian singing on it sounds better.

And are they any good in your opinion?

I know it was recorded for the KTSA but released on it, but I just have to point out that I listened to it recently and was very surprised that "When Girls Get Together" is a really beautiful composition in it's instrumental state [see bootlegs]. It's just so much better than the final version---I have to say I can't stand the lyrics really. But it's really much more successful as an instrumental.

Not in my opinion.

I think Goin` On could have been a good song but Carl should have sung the whole thing pretty much instead of Mike.

Santa Ana Winds is quite nice but again Mike`s nasal vocal should have been removed and the sloppy band chorus should have been re-recorded.

Keepin` the Summer Alive is ok but let down by the puny production.

That`s about it...

Stating the obvious here but it`s a real shame that the band couldn`t have worked with a strong manager or producer who could have organized them more.

I agree that convincing Dennis to donate a couple of songs might have improved things a lot and getting Mike to donate a couple of First Love songs would have helped massively too.

Having now listened to this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC6DfsQo1RE

I think it could have been a nice little song.

I had root canal surgery two and a half hours ago, my jaw aches, my tounge feels like a football and I've got a headache but that song really made me want to be back in the dentist's chair doing it all again rather than listening to it.

Yeah, the only good things about "Goin' to the Beach" are some of the vocal melody and the left hand piano parts Brian added to the demo. It's funny watching that KTSA piece on YouTube when Brian adds those parts and asks Mike if it sounds good, and Mike just kind of dismissively says "yeah, sure Brian" when it's actually the only thing that makes the song instrumentally interesting. I noticed that they aren't in the instrumental Mike apparently helped produce.

here's the other finished C.Wilson/R.Bachman song:

http://www.imeem.com/people/CsNaY_L/music/WIjXWcmX/iron-horse-whats-your-hurry-darling/

I read somewhere a interview with Bachman many years ago about his work with Carl, and these 3 tracks are the only only ones that were demoed...
so the rest are just on a notepad in Mr. Bachman's music library.
 (so I'm picturing the two of them with acoustic guitars playing together back in '79 coming up with these songs)

would be interesting if he'd let someone have the info on the other 2 or 3 songs...
another Adam Marsland project?

Yes, although far from a good take, it has much more soul. Could have been a great recording.

Thanks for the link and not a bad song. Preferable to some on KTSA I would say...

for being the title song, i wish it was it bit b@lls-ier...i feel like there's no bass...the live version is 45% better

I agree Brian's original demo recording of "Oh Darlin'" is way better than what would eventually end up on the actual album. To me, the biggest letdown about KTSA most certainly is how "un-Brian" that whole record sounds considering the high percentage of all-new (or previously unreleased) BW material.

Now THAT's funny...just get me Randy Bachman's phone number and I'll get right on it!

Seriously, the biggest missed opportunity was "I Will Always Love You", the Mann/Weil song that Carl cut for these sessions.  VERY 1980 A/C radio hit-like, and a wonderful performance.  Right in sync with what was going on at the time.  I can see why they left it off because it didn't really resonate with the other tracks on the album...which right there is the problem.  I am also fond of Brian's take on "Smokey Places" that I got to hear once...the only half-decent vocal he did around this time (seriously, my God, his voice was WRECKED in 1980, shocked at how bad some of the unreleased vocals are...amazing that he did so many of the BVs on KTSA competently).  Though again, wouldn't really have fit on the album.

It's too bad about KTSA.  It's true that it was a real group effort (though I think Carl's tracks are mostly solo, right?  "Heartache" for sure), but it's a thin and uninspired record to me, which is a shame because I think the idea behind it -- get the band back together and try to do a more organic album -- was in good faith, it just didn't work out so well.  The only songs I really love on it are the title track and "Santa Ana Winds," and the processing on the vocals on the latter make it almost unlistenable.  This may have the highest percentage of tracks I really hate on any (pre-"Kokomo") BBs album..."Sunshine," "Girls Get Together," "Oh Darlin'".  I loathe them all, and I'm not fond of "Heartache" either.  And this is coming from the guy who will defend LIGHT ALBUM to the death.

I like Goin' On, Endless Harmony and Santa Ana Winds. I can stomach the two Carl-Bachman collaborations. The rest is pure dreck.

I don't dislike any songs on the album, and I still think it's one of Carl's best albums - vocally -in any decade.

I think everything they did after is worse, and everything they did before is better. I'm not talking song by song just as LP's. Love You isn't my favorite but there are a few songs there that I think are first rate. KTSA does have more of an organic feel then the later stuff, frankly only a half dozen group tracks after Dennis died were worthy of their legacy and two of those didn't come out. I don't hate too many things on there except for "WGGT", "Endless Harmony" (despite some fine singing it's still Bruce at his most cloying), and "School Days" which made "Rock and Roll Music" look like "Break Away".

Bruce's production is pretty bad though much better then Melcher or Levine's. He lessens if not ruins some potential classics. Santa Ana Winds is a beautiful concept. Melodically it's wonderful, and I never minded the processing. What's wrong with it is first off the dorky spoken intro and secondly Mike. Mike shouldn't have used his whiny voice on such a delicate song. He's terrible on it. I guess I like the LA Light version better for all its rough spots.
KTSA is a good song for its genre, it should have kicked more and I blame Bruce for that. Still I like listening to it. Goin' On is the last Brian/Mike classic composition. If not for the horrible sax solo I would say it's a classic recording as well.

God that was bloody awful. No wonder Carl looked like he was cringing when he heard it.

A fair judgement of this album.

If your serious Adam, I'm told that he's quite approachable on this kind of stuff..
maybe contact him through his website  randybachman.com.

 :)

I always liked Goin On. I agree with Santa Ana Winds first version for sure! They would have needed to rewrite that first verse, on my porch thinking about the torch??? Get rid of the on my porch.  Even something like "sometimes I start thinkin bout the torch" Mike's nasal does not belong there. Some of You Love, WGGT and Sunshine are awful.  Never cared for School Days, why not just do Runaway on the album, Al sounded much better on that.
Funny, I remember a few years back Bruce blaming Carl for the album version of KTSA saying he wanted to make it rock and Carl did not.

Ahhhhhh, Keepin' the Summer Alive. No other BB album has had such venom spewed at it from yours truly. Indeed, easily the worst thing the band ever did. "Group effort"? More like Carl, Mike, Al, and Bruce trying to make sense out of Brian's half-finished ideas, Carl going into lame MOR mode (LA was COOL MOR), and Bruce being Bruce. And of course, Dennis knew it was horrible so he kept his distance. I rest my case.

I would argue too that Brian's lack of solo performances of KTSA-era tunes speaks volumes too - he has even more horrible things to say about the 1978-80 albums than I do!

One outtake I'd like to hear is Brian's song "Boys And Girls"...he's raved about that in later interviews, saying it was a huge mistake that they didn't finish it and/or release it.  He even did that one twice...the "KTSA" version (produced by Bruce), and a remake Brian cut a year later.  Don't know if vocals were added to either version, but I'm sure it's worth a listen. 

You know, if they had worked on this a little more, cut out "When Girls Get Together", re-recorded "Some Of Your Love" with the keyboard synth intro like on the live versions, and added "Under The Moonlight", KTSA would have been a damn fine album. They could have also substituted "School Days" with "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love?".

Did he deliberately chose to leave the project because he didn't like what Bruce and the group were putting together? Why wouldn't he rather contribute a few songs of his own in order to make it an overall much more successfull group effort? I know that mere logic doesn't apply to the world of the Beach Boys, but of course both M.I.U. and KTSA could have used a couple of Dennis tunes.

For some reason, I like "Some of Your Love". I think it's the harmonies during the chorus. There's something really spacey and 'out there' about them, like Brian thought them up while he was on way too much coke. It's hard to explain, but they stop the song from being too bland, or Celebrationized as I call it in this particular instance. Also, IMO, "When Girls Get Together" is one of the best songs on KTSA! Same with "Santa Ana Winds". Yes, they're cheesy, but they're very interesting instrumentally and melodically, something that can't be said for a quite a few other KTSA songs.  I mean, come on, The BBs have always been cheesy! It seems like BB fans only take objection to the cheesiness when critics tell them to. Are you telling me "Barnyard" or "Vegetables" are any less cheesy? "Cool Cool Water" anyone? I'll never understand how Al's 5 second spoken intro (or however short it is) can ruin a whole song for people. Quit trying to be hip!

Apparently he did dislike it a lot and I can understand why he wouldn`t want to waste his own material on something he had no belief in. Maybe a reason why Carl as well later chose to write for outside projects rather than penning songs for the band.

That`s a pretty good description and `Sunshine` is probably the best example. Bruce has talked about the trouble they went to to adapt what Brian had come up with but what he didn`t say was why? It`s sad that the band members had lost confidence so much that they didn`t believe that with a bunch of talented session that they could record better music than that.

Let's be honest here Dennis wasn't in shape to record consistantly at this point. He couldn't finish Bambu let alone work with the Beach Boys. They had kicked him out at this point, and I doubt he was welcomed even by Carl who was newly clean. I love the man but I don't think he was worried about the artistic highground at this point. Perhaps misguidedly he wanted to be back in the group badly.

KTSA is way too short...the original intent was to give Brian a "Spector corner" on the album...if they'd done that, and stuck on "San Miguel" (unreleased at that point)...and maybe "Sea Cruise" (which, along with "San Miguel", came out anyway a year later), it would've been a much more well-rounded and better album.  Those two cuts would've gone a long way toward satisfiying our Dennis craving, and the addition of "Sea Cruise" along with "School Days" and Brian's "Spector corner" would've made it similar to 15 Big Ones in concept, only better, I believe ('cause the vocals were better). 

"What'y your hurry darlin'" has a melody similar to part of this song's melody, which was released in '91:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9RlS6ELw8U&feature=PlayList&p=59EDAECF68BBCD42&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=28 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9RlS6ELw8U&feature=PlayList&p=59EDAECF68BBCD42&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=28)

I like Mike's nasal voice, so Santa Ana Winds is really cool to me. How can you guys not like When Girls Get Together? It's a Wilson/Love composition from the 60s!!

Yeah, I don`t think When Girls Get Together is a bad song at all. I just think that it`s completely out of place on the album.

Like some of you, I've been trying to like this album for almost 30 years.  That's right 30 YEARS.  Goin on and Keeping the Summer Alive are about all I can take.

Mike's voice on the album is nearly as bad as Brians.  Bad vocals = bad Beach Boys.  Sunshine could have been a lot better without the nasal.  Even a BW hoarse and gruff lead would have sounded better to me....more appealing.

But I really like the album cover!  I don't know the original intent of the cover but it seems quite cynical...keeping it all alive by extreme measures and artificial means.

I like Beach Boys 85 a lot better and some of the stuff yet to come such as Somewhere Near Japan and Soul Searchin.
And not to forget, the (until recently) unreleased Dennis Wilson, the sporadic but excellent work of Brian in subsequent years, and the Carl Wilson solo albums.

LA ranks right up there in my top 3 BB albums of all time, but KTSA is kind of all over the place and doesn't work very well as a cohesive album...it's more like a collection of B-sides or something.  However, I do enjoy most of the songs on the album to some degree. 

I've always loved the title track, although I think that the bass vocal "duh-duh-duh" could have been left off like it was during live performances...this totally should have been the first single. 

It took a while for "Oh Darlin" to grow on me, but I really enjoy it now. 

"Some Of Your Love" would have been a LOT better if it had been shortened by about 30 seconds...the repetition toward the end is too much for me to take sometimes. 

"Livin With A Heartache" was a song I didn't like until I heard that it was recorded outdoors in a field, and for some reason, it changed the way I heard the song.  Great Carl vocals. 

"School Days" should not have been the 2nd single...what an embarassment. 

"Goin' On" should have been the 2nd single after KTSA, rather than the lead single. 

"Sunshine" is one of my favorite tracks, although it feels like something is missing and it's not a complete song...it feels like you're watching a parade float going by, and you're hearing one part of the song, and never get to hear the ending. 

WGGT has always seemed pointless and out of place for me. 

"Santa Ana Winds"...I agree with whoever said that the spoken intro should have been left off, as well as Mike's whiny vocal. 


"Endless Harmony"...love the 2nd half.

I don't agree with your assessment. It WAS a group effort, and, except for Dennis' absence, it was precisely the way a Beach Boys' album should've come about, THEN AND NOW.

The album was built around a nucleus of B. Wilson/M. Love songs, with two Carl songs, the obligatory Al and Bruce tracks, and an oldie. Again, you add two Dennis tracks to that mix and you have an ENTIRE group effort, and a stronger album. How much more of a group effort did you want? To me, that's a blueprint for a good Beach Boys' album, one which I would like to see used for a reunion album.

I know the entire album wasn't done at Al's barn, but that documentary (which name escapes me, Going Platinum?) shows a happy and enthusiastic group. It was also united - for better or worse - by Bruce's production. I know it's a matter of opinion, but I think the "other guys'" tracks are excellent - the title cut, "Livin' With A Heartache", "Santa Ana Winds", and even "Endless Harmony" (as a closer). Brian and Mike's tracks could've been stronger - for them - but I'd have to at least call them good. It's actually the oldie "School Days" which disappoints, yet it's not embarrassing.

A quick comment on Dennis. I don't know if Dennis' absence was intentional or not (was he ill?), but, either way, it disappointed me. This was becoming a trend, Dennis not having tracks on a Beach Boys' album. First Surf's Up, then MIU, then KTSA. It's disappointing when somebody in the band doesn't want to contribute or boycotts an album because he doesn't think his bandmates' songs are strong enough, or as good as his? A team player? But he had a big heart....

Again people miss the point Dennis was not a Beach Boy when this was being recorded. Sure he showed up once or twice but he wasn't really welcome. If you call addiction illness then yes Dennis was very ill by this time.

Stone, you never cease to amaze me.

Wasn't Dennis kicked out of the  band when that record was made? Oh wait, I can predict your response, "well whose fault was that? Dennis, the slacking druggie. But he had a big heart, right?"

EDIT: Thank you, Mike for pointing that out and confirming what I just wrote.

I think that the Brian/Mike compositions are mostly dreadful..."Goin' On" excepted. "Some of Your Love," give me a break!

Rob is right, from what I understand, Dennis simply could not produce complete great songs in 1980, his focus was shot. If you look at the Gigs/Sessions AGD has for June 1979-all of1980, there was not one session where he was present and contributing a song. I remember Desper saying Dennis cried when he was in the studio with the BB. So he's out.

Mike 's voice sabotages the great "Santa Ana Winds," the production kills "Oh Darlin" and THE TITLE CUT (especially); "Sunshine" is just stupid and I've already made comment on "Some of Your Love". Carl's songs had potential, but as I said before I love the title track but don't care for the production or Mike's vocal at all.

And further you can't blame Brian. Without a steady hand he was uncontrolable; I'm not defending Landy but without him from 1978-1982 he was really in bad shape. Mentally and physically very ill. He couldn't contribute much and what he did was esssentially variations on a very simple theme. Cocaine sessions excepted.

This album really was dead before it started.

MBE, I wasn't missing the point. If you notice, I put "was he ill?" in my post, because I wasn't sure where he was at with his problems during the recording of KTSA. I was trying to recall some dates/appearances from 1979 - I know he was on the The Midnight Special and I saw him live in 1979, and I recall he was with the band for the 1980 4th Of July festivities. Maybe in between those high profile appearances he was not available? Or made not available. It does seem kind of ironic that Brian and Carl, of all people, would vote Dennis out of the group. And for that reason (addictions). Or maybe they didn't?  

I do, however, stand by my point that Dennis withheld his participation/songs from albums for reasons that don't seem "team" oriented.

Plus the arrangement. Man that song was slaughtered to death !






First, what are the reasons? I haven't read about them, but maybe I missed something.
Second, how could he have contributed songs, when he hadn't any good ones? He already gave the band "Love surrounds me" and "Baby blue" which were supposed to go on "Bambu".


It is well known that Mike more or less had control over Brian's voting right.




He did contribute songs to "Surf's up" but had a fight with Carl over them. It wasn't like he didn't give them any.

Now things are getting lively again! :police:

Well, if I've read correctly, Dennis had a song (or songs, including "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again"?) which were considered for the Surf's Up album. However, if I've read correctly, he wasn't happy with the song sequencing, specifically HIS song's placement, and, in essence, took his ball and went home.

On September 2nd or 3rd, 1977, Dennis got into that infamous "airport argument" with Mike and Al. Thus, during the recording of MIU, Dennis is mostly absent. On top of that, he went public with his own scathing review of the album, his band's album. A team player? Did he turn down his portion of the money the band received for the album?

Again, I don't know if Dennis had any songs - or felt like trying to write songs - for KTSA. I simply raised the question and stated that I was disappointed that he didn't contribute.

And, finally, I would love to see the minutes of those voting meetings.... Just to see IF Mike voted FOR Brian, but, even more importantly, to see how Carl and Dennis voted. It's been written that Brian "gave his vote to Mike". I'd like to read more about that. It doesn't make any sense.

He was scared and paranoid...mentally ill and just wanted peace. Mike always put up a fight.

I don't know everything but the answer might be drugs.

For any of us to try to pretend we can explain or understand the "how's" and "why's" of this band is an exercise in futility.  Mental illness, drug and alcohol abuse, sibling issues, money factors, ego, etc. make this perhaps the most complicated group in rock history.  It's a miracle they put out so much great music.  The frustrating thing is that they also put out their fair share of dreck which COULD have been great under the right circumstances.

The lack of participation/product from Dennis is due to many of the aforementioned factors.  He may have been disinterested, dysfunctional, and displaced all at the same time.  Dennis really didn't seem very productive at the time of KTSA.

Overall, I like the album in spite of some poor production.  For me, Carl's two songs and "Goin' On" are the highlights. 

\
I just wrote a really long reply and lost it somehow! Anyhow I wasn't trying to single you out but I was just frustrated because I had already mentioned that  Dennis wasn't in the band at the time. From mid June 1979 to May 1980 he only played 2 or 3 shows and only was at 2 sessions. I doubt he was invited, but more or less just showed up. For Surf's Up and MIU Dennis did chose not to contribute because he didn't feel supported by the others at those times. For KTSA I think he was just so caught up in a decline that he couldn't do anything productive on a consistant basis. I think every Beach Boy at one time or another was not a team player. Let's face it after Murry died they never were all on the same page. Even before then they didn't always see eye to eye but everyone was still together enough (physically and mentally) to work it out.

The reason Dennis was "out of the band" during KTSA was partly due to his distaste for the band's direction and mostly due to the fact that he had been banned (by Carl) from concert appearances after the first of six shows at the Universal Amphitheater in mid-1979. Michael and Dennis had been fighting all day and night, and they were both irritating each other onstage. The fact that he had made a comment about a hard drug onstage (keep in mind, they were at least TRYING to keep up appearances in 1979) just ate at Michael. Dennis had enough of Michael sneering at him after a while, and literally threw half of his drum kit onto Michael and then ran down and pummeled him. This was the famous "Michael kicked Dennis in the balls" incident. Dennis and Michael had to be restrained, with Dennis being tossed from the arena. Bobby Figueroa had to jump in on drums so they could finish the show.

I think this is a pretty fair comment. I`m sure that Dennis should have been given a lot more respect by his bandmates for his songwriting but he could have given them more respect too. For example, he dismissed Susie Cincinnatti as `a silly piece of sh*t` when 15 Big Ones was released. They are plenty of other examples too...

Dennis couldn't deliver Bambu, even with Guercio doing anything to cheer him on and no TM-follower around to blame. I guess his non-appearance in KTSA is very logic in the sequence of things in Dennis' life. Simple as that. He simply blew it. Missing the new Beach Boys album was probably a very little matter in his mind in 1980.

I asked this before in a different thread, but never got an answer. When Dennis was "banned" from appearing with the group, does that mean in the studio too? Was Dennis MIA from KTSA because he literally was not permitted to be involved?

By the way, IMO 'Oh Darling' sucks and no production could save it. It's boredom solidified in a song, though it's far from being the worst track in the bunch.

Yes he was not made welcome at all.

"I like Goin' On, Endless Harmony and Santa Ana Winds. I can stomach the two Carl-Bachman collaborations. The rest is pure dreck."

Agree, but I've developed a tolerance for WGGT.

Mike and Brian harmonizing in 1969. It should be gold, just listen to the 'I close my tired eyes' line in Add Some Music. But they somehow never gell in this track. And it goes on and on, the torture never stops. It could very well lose one minute and a half.

Random thoughts to a pretty good thread:

No, I'm not serious about calling Randy Bachman.  If I did I'd tell him that a BTO single was the first record I ever bought with my own money, and ask him if he drinks Labatt's.

There's something to be said for not being a team player when you're right and the rest of the team is wrong (talking artistically here, not lifestyle choices).

Stone makes the point that this is how he feels a Beach Boy album should be made -- except it isn't very good.  Which, well, I'll leave that one alone.  But I guess this is the point I have made in other posts, that wanting things to be done a certain way for wish fulfillment reasons often flies in the face with how things and people really work in the real world.

Al J. at the CWF concert spent about a full minute onstage bashing the KTSA cover.  Boy, did he hate it.

I like Eric's precis of the album.  I'm going to do my own.  No reason, I just don't feel like going to bed yet!

KTSA -- This song is dumb as hell but I love it.  The production could be more rocking but there are nice touches.  I like the random clap at the end.  Randy Bachman's version is very different, and kind of odd.

Oh Darlin' -- This is the same plodding arrangement that sunk the unreleased (but otherwise beautiful) version of "California Feeling" cut for the album, and the flanging on the piano just makes it worse, as do all the intentional homages to "God Only Knows."  The background vocals are truly bizarre.  I hate this song.

Some Of Your Love --  This is like the 3rd go-round for this hook, and Mike recycled it yet again on SIP.  The point about the harmonies is well taken...they're pretty cool, as is Darryl Dragon's kickass piano.  It's a pretty dumb song though.  The "kiss me baby" bridge melodically is ace.  Still, this song just rubs me the wrong way, like it's trying too hard and totally insubstantial at the same time.

Livin' With a Heartache -- Again, I just think this arrangement is boring.  The flanging on the guitar robs it of any urgency.  The (non-BB) vocals are cool, and I agree it's neat that Carl sang it outdoors. 

School Days -- I kind of like how muddy this sounds, it's very authentically rock.  I'm assuming that's from its four track origins.  Jardine sounds like he's having a good time, and the guitar playing is great.  It feels so close to being a rock track that it's kind of annoying that it doesn't get there.

Goin' On -- This is a cool song, but I've always thought it's overrated.  I like the fade out.  It sounds like they just decided to stop bothering to sing the chorus!

Sunshine -- HATE this song.  It makes me want to gouge my eyes out.  Dum-Dum-Dum-De-Dum-De-Dumb, bland production, repetitive melody, basic 1-4-5 progression.

When Girls Get Together -- Makes the plodding "Oh Darlin'" sound like a foxtrot.  This just lumbers along for about a hundred years.  It's not without charm, it's just boring.

Santa Ana Winds -- I love this song, and the fadeout is GORGEOUS.   The orchestra and the harmonica and chugging acoustic guitars?Great vocals, and wonderful to hear a BB track with such a rootsy, basic feel.   Magical.  Things to hate:  the triple tracked Al J. vocal on the first verse.  Really jarring and ugly sounding -- compare with Al and Bruce's laid back second verse.  Mike's nasal vocal, as noted elsewhere, is horrible.  A couple of other places in the song the strings are a bit much.

Endless Harmony -- I can't make up my mind about this song.  I think it's technically superior to most of the rest of the album, and it's a much more sophisticated song musically than anything else on KTSA.  Bruce's first half, which not-so-subtly quotes "Still Crazy After All These Years," doesn't bother me, it's smooth but the starkness of the track and the way the Rhodes is recorded gives it a little edge.  The second half of the track is the only part of the whole album that sounds like classic Beach Boys, and the lone falsetto bit is spine-tingling.  With all that going for it, the song just seems totally wrong-headed to me.  I like it a lot better on the ENDLESS HARMONY soundtrack than I do here.  It just seems more appropriate in that context.

What would have been better?  "I Will Always Love You" for sure.  "California Feeling" isn't any worse production-wise than "Oh Darling" and it's a miles better song.  "It's Not Too Late" could have really lifted the record to new heights, but you'd have to dump a lot of the album to make it fit sonically and stylistically.  "Goin' To The Beach" and "Surfer Suzie" aren't any better than "Some Of Your Love" -- and just as dumb -- but they'd be more interesting than the plodding ballads on side two.  I think the problem is trying to make everything make sense as part of one album.  It is, as Eric pointed out, like an album of B-sides and trying to improve it with different tracks might have just made it spottier.  None of these tracks fit with any of the other ones.  That may be the problem that faced Bruce Johnston when he put this thing together.

One last thing I wanted to add, "Livin' With A Heartache" is much better as an edited single. It sounds a little brighter and it doesn't overstay it's welcome like the LP version. Not a top rank song, but the remix or edit really improved it.

With all the talk about the lack of Dennis' participation or songs, wasn't "San Miguel" in the running for KTSA at one point? Since Dennis most likely needed money, it seems like he would have been glad to have the song on the album.

I think San Miguel is a terrific sound that would have helped KTSA a lot and would have gotten more notice there than it did on 10 Years of Harmony.

What could be removed from KTSA to make room? A lot.

I like "Sam niguel" but it wouldn't have fit on KTSA. It sounds just too different to the rest of the songs.

What could be removed from KTSA? EVERYTHING!

Like I said in my review on this very site - if this was the best the group could do in 1980, I am not impressed. The year before they had delivered LA, their last great album, which had a lot of effort on the part of all who contributed, even Brian in his hospitalized state. Keepin' the Summer Alive, according to history, showed "more effort" on the band's part. The project just ended up being worthy of the bargain bin as soon as it was released. This isn't even worth being called an album of B-sides, as B-sides have MERIT to them. The album is garbage.

It may have been a "group effort", but it was a group effort by a band who didn't care.

There are bits and pieces of KTSA that I like in different times and contexts. But there is nothing--nothing--that I could always point to and claim to like. That's not a good sign for an album, being that dependent on the listener's mood (or state of inebriation).

As for what could have replaced it, I'd say there is easily an album's worth of then-unreleased music that would have been better than every song on the album. To truly get the best possible album, totally discarding this one would be the way to go. Not that I don't think it's better than what came later, it's just worse than most of what came before.

I haven't listened to KTSA or BB'85 yet, & it looks like I haven't missed much.  On the other hand, I know I'll buy it eventually, so maybe going into it with no expectations of greatness will make it somewhat better.  At least that's what I hope.  By the way, I love the L.A. album from the year before, too.

Even Brian? Did Brian play a note of music on L.A.? I know he's barely audible. Actually, L.A. is one of the least-Brian albums in the group's history.

I've always taken "ice cream weather" to mean hot, summertime weather.

In a way both albums are way better than their actual reputation might imply. Mind you, they're not great by any means, but if you're genuinely interested in the history of the group you're going to find quite a few intriguing moments (some of which you might even find to be musically rewarding) on that twofer. BB85 in particular has lots of great lead vocal moments to offer despite the obvious triteness of some of the songs.

Me, too.  I've always liked that line. The "ice cream weather, all the girls will look better, the boys try to give them a ride..." line is the only part of the song's lyrics that reach my brain. It makes me imagine a bearded trio of Carl, Brian, and Dennis sitting in a hot rod outside of an ice cream stand, licking their vanilla ice cream and offering teenage girls rides (probably because that was only a year or two after songs like "Roller Skating Child" and "Hey Little Tomboy"). It's sort of a metaphor for what the group was about commercially at that time, just like the insular glass house on the cover.

It DOES sound different, but that wouldn't b unusual for the Boys. Their previous album included a beautiful, haunting ballad in Baby Blue, a rock version of a traditional children's song in Shortenin' Bread and a never-ending disco song, Here Comes the Night. Talk about songs that don't fit together.

It's not just on LA either. Take a Load off Your Feet hardly fits on the same album with Surf's Up, Feel Flows and Til I Die.

KTSA needed any good songs it could get, so I think San Miguel would have helped.

While BB85 isn't the Boys' best album by any means, it's much better than KTSA, Still Cruisin', or Summer In Paradise. Where I Belong could've easily fit on LA Light or even Holland, Male Ego sounds like a Love You outtake, and the rest of the album consists of guilty pleasures (yes, even California Calling!).

I was thinking about "Santa Ana Winds" today. Lovely, beautiful song; but it sounds like the chorus is something Brian would've written in about three minutes flat and then gone off to eat a steak. Al probably finished it off. I also miss Brian's high harmony on the chorus from the early version, though not those awful comments.

Still a lovely song.

I was talking about the sound, not the quality, arrangement or whatever of the song. Not only do the vocals sound totally different, it is the whole recording. HCTN and Shortnin' bread however sound totally like they were cut around that time (which they were) and with the same recording techniques...

I agree.  Putting San Miguel on KTSA would be like putting WIBN on Still Cruisin'....oh wait... :lol

Despite some weak material, the main problem for me, which has been mentioned by others, is Mike's nasal vocals. "Santa Ana Winds" surely the worst offender. Why Al's lead had to be interrupted three times by MEL is beyond me, ruining an otherwise decent song.

I was in a rehearsal for a gig with Nelson and Probyn yesterday and I deliberately tortured Probyn by playing "Oh Darlin'" on the piano between songs (and Probyn didn't recognize it, dammit!)

Bachman is quite a Beach Boys fan and hosts a radio show that you can catch here: http://www.randysvinyltap.com/main.php?ch=4#


Check out show # 111 which was on The Beach Boys. I am not sure if they are archived, but if anyone is contacting Randy anyway.....

I've been playing it myself lately on piano quite a bit. Like I said, I think the song is really good, but everything on the released version is wrong, everything !

Whatever else you say about KTSA, you have to admit, the liners on the 2000 reissue aren't too shabby...  ::)

Did you write them?

 ;D

My problem with Santa Ana Winds is the strings.  Best track on the album by a mile, however, and should've been on LA.
The syrupy sax break almost kills Goin' On, my second favourite track.
The lyrics are the biggest culprit in Endless Harmony (wasn't it actually written before Still Crazy?), my third favourite.
KTSA is okay but it's no Do It Again.
WGGT is beginning to sound better - worryingly...
I don't care much for the rest at all, especially Sunshine and LWAH.

You're right about it being written before Still Crazy, but the electric piano sound and vibe of the A section are very similar.  It may very well be a coincidence but the "A" section of each of the songs ends with the same little 1-4-1 keyboard riff, which makes me think it was a conscious or unconscious tip of the hat to the Simon tune.

about the sax solo on Goin On, it's alright, but I always found Mike Meros' keyboard solo on the concert versions charming.

BTW, whoever brought up the Sunshine/parade analogy was genius!

Really?  I didn't like that solo at all, though I don't blame Mike, but the lack of decent keyboard patches to approximate a sax at that point in time.  (Actually, this is still largely true)

In 1980, Mike Meros did the Some Of Your Love "sax" sound two different ways. In Philly he used a poor quality sample, but at Knebworth he used just a plain synth saw.