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Title: How "live" were their live albums? Post by: shelter on July 17, 2009, 11:56:58 AM We all know that 'Concert' and 'Live At Knebworth' were heavily doctored and that 'Lei'd In Hawaii' was even going to be entirely re-recorded in the studio, but how about 'Live In London', 'In Concert' and 'Songs From Here & Back'? Are those recordings all "pure"?
Title: Re: How Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 17, 2009, 12:17:57 PM Don't know about "Live in London", but "In Concert" and "SFH&B" def. were heavily edited. If I'm not mistaken, "Caroline No" from "In Concert" was actually spliced together from more than one show.
Title: Re: How \ Post by: Andrew G. Doe on July 17, 2009, 01:43:16 PM Live In London is substantially honest - just a few edits here and there, no overdubbing that I know of.
Title: Re: In Concert Post by: Ed Roach on July 17, 2009, 03:41:28 PM We all know that 'Concert' and 'Live At Knebworth' were heavily doctored and that 'Lei'd In Hawaii' was even going to be entirely re-recorded in the studio, but how about ...'In Concert'...? Are those recordings all "pure"? Good gosh, it's a little disconcerting to even see this question, re: "The Beach Boys In Concert", because to me that album was drained of any 'live' feel at all. And that's truly sad, because it represents them at just about the top of their game as a touring act, at least in my sometimes-less-than humble opinion. I mean, good Lord, it was recorded over the course of two years, wasn't it? On a positive note, though, (beyond the quality of the songs themselves), is that the massive overdubbing and the eternal and endless recording of tours led to the building of Brother Studios! Had that not have gone on & on, that building in Santa Monica would have remained just a storage warehouse in an alley for The Boys, with a porno movie theatre up front! Title: Re: How \ Post by: astroray on July 17, 2009, 05:03:29 PM My good buddy Al Jardine ,told me once,the "Live In London" recording was sped up. He sang along with "Their Hearts were Full of Spring"It was playing while he signed autographs ,many years ago!
Title: Re: In Concert Post by: TonyW on July 17, 2009, 06:16:59 PM .... and the eternal and endless recording of tours led to the building of Brother Studios! ... RELEASE THEM NOW!! ... Title: Re: In Concert Post by: shelter on July 18, 2009, 01:54:24 AM Good gosh, it's a little disconcerting to even see this question, re: "The Beach Boys In Concert", because to me that album was drained of any 'live' feel at all. Of course I know it's not a "real" concert album in the sense that it was not recorded during once concert. But my question was if the seperate songs are all real live recordings, without overdubs or anything. Title: Re: In Concert Post by: shelter on July 18, 2009, 02:11:30 AM I mean, good Lord, it was recorded over the course of two years, wasn't it? November 1972, April, August and September 1973. Title: Re: How \ Post by: Beach Boy on July 18, 2009, 10:22:40 AM We all know that 'Concert' and 'Live At Knebworth' were heavily doctored and that 'Lei'd In Hawaii' was even going to be entirely re-recorded in the studio, but how about 'Live In London', 'In Concert' and 'Songs From Here & Back'? Are those recordings all "pure"? I read somewhere that the Knebworth concert wasn't much overdubbed, just with some backing vocals and a guitar or something. Title: Re: How \ Post by: Andrew G. Doe on July 18, 2009, 10:58:57 AM We all know that 'Concert' and 'Live At Knebworth' were heavily doctored and that 'Lei'd In Hawaii' was even going to be entirely re-recorded in the studio, but how about 'Live In London', 'In Concert' and 'Songs From Here & Back'? Are those recordings all "pure"? I read somewhere that the Knebworth concert wasn't much overdubbed, just with some backing vocals and a guitar or something. When I spoke with him some five years after the show, Steve Desper told me the tapes of the show were extensively overdubbed as the original intention was for the gig to be released as a video album for the 20th anniversary. Title: Re: In Concert Post by: Dave in KC on July 18, 2009, 11:32:30 AM I mean, good Lord, it was recorded over the course of two years, wasn't it? November 1972, April, August and September 1973. I'd love to know which songs on which dates as I was at a few of the April shows. Indeed they were at their best. And then Endless Summer changed the roadmap. Title: Re: How \ Post by: Andrew G. Doe on July 18, 2009, 11:43:52 AM Can't help with the songs, but these are the known dates recorded for the 1973 live set:
1972 11/19 - Capitol Theater, Passaic NJ [2 shows] 11/23 - Carnegie Hall, New York NY [2 shows] 1973 4/20 - Hollywood Palladium, Hollywood CA 8/12 - University of Cincinnati OH 8/14 - Auditorium Theater, Chicago IL 8/15 - Auditorium Theater, Chicago IL 8/16 - Auditorium Theater, Chicago IL 8/18 - The Mosque, Richmond VA 8/19 - Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale NY ("We Got Love" & "California Girls" from this show used on the released album) 8/20 - Schaeffer Center, Foxboro MA 8/24 - Dillon Stadium, Hartford CT 8/25 - Roosevelt Stadium, Jersey City NJ 8/30 - Merriweather Post Pavilion, Columbia MD 8/31 - Syria Mosque, Pittsburgh PA 9/1 - Century Theater, Buffalo NY 9/2 - Massey Hall, Toronto ONT, Canada [2 shows] 9/3 - Pine Knob, Clarkston MI Title: Re: How \ Post by: Jon Stebbins on July 18, 2009, 12:18:33 PM To say the '64 concert LP is "heavily doctored" is probably not quite accurate. Other than the two "fake" live songs (Fun Fun Fun and I Get Around) that LP is quite honest in its Live-ness. There are a few additional vocal fixes, but really not much at all. Things like Lets Go Trippin, Papa Ooh Mow Mow, Little Old Lady from Pasadena and Graduation Day show the '64 band exactly as it was....which was great IMO.
Title: Re: How \ Post by: yrplace on July 18, 2009, 12:47:09 PM We all know that 'Concert' and 'Live At Knebworth' were heavily doctored and that 'Lei'd In Hawaii' was even going to be entirely re-recorded in the studio, but how about 'Live In London', 'In Concert' and 'Songs From Here & Back'? Are those recordings all "pure"? I read somewhere that the Knebworth concert wasn't much overdubbed, just with some backing vocals and a guitar or something. When I spoke with him some five years after the show, Steve Desper told me the tapes of the show were extensively overdubbed as the original intention was for the gig to be released as a video album for the 20th anniversary. I think Steve may be confusing the shows he worked on in that period. When I mixed the project we found that aside from a single track of group bg vocals that were overdubbed and some scattered xtra guitar tracks the show was not overdubbed. The lead vocals are all live..... Hope that helps...... Mark Title: Re: How \ Post by: Andrew G. Doe on July 18, 2009, 12:50:28 PM Thanks for the clarification, Mark - another note in the 'corrections' file. :)
Title: Re: known dates Post by: Ed Roach on July 18, 2009, 01:32:24 PM Can't help with the songs, but these are the known dates recorded for the 1973 live set: 1972 11/19 - Capitol Theater, Passaic NJ [2 shows] 11/23 - Carnegie Hall, New York NY [2 shows] 1973 4/20 - Hollywood Palladium, Hollywood CA 8/12 - University of Cincinnati OH 8/14 - Auditorium Theater, Chicago IL 8/15 - Auditorium Theater, Chicago IL 8/16 - Auditorium Theater, Chicago IL 8/18 - The Mosque, Richmond VA 8/19 - Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale NY ("We Got Love" & "California Girls" from this show used on the released album) .............................. One of my next 'future projects' has to be cataloging whatever tour itineraries I have left, to assist with putting together correct show dates & locations. I'm always amazed at how many dates through the years are still so vague. Unfortunately, Dennis would often involve me in a game of 'guess what city we're landing in', (especially when we were traveling on private jets), and in that case, we'd destroy the itineraries at start of the tour, so I'm missing many of them. Title: Re: How \ Post by: Wirestone on July 18, 2009, 02:45:15 PM So let's recap:
Beach Boys Concert (64) Features a couple of studio-recorded tracks but is otherwise largely true to life. Live in London (69, 76) Basically untouched, although potentially sped up. The BBs in Concert (73) Painstakingly edited together and overdubbed in the studio. Live at Knebworth (80, 02) Scattered overdubs (re Mark) but otherwise basically "pure." Songs From Here & Back (06) Edited live tracks (although one doubts the band would have bothered to dub them). Then you have the Brian Wilson live discs -- pretty much all of which are edited and dubbed. Title: Re: How \ Post by: Shady on July 18, 2009, 08:00:50 PM Then you have the Brian Wilson live discs -- pretty much all of which are edited and dubbed. Strange considering he has the best live band on the road Title: Re: How \ Post by: grillo on July 18, 2009, 08:53:50 PM Then you have the Brian Wilson live discs -- pretty much all of which are edited and dubbed. Strange considering he has the best live band on the road Title: Re: How Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 18, 2009, 11:01:59 PM We all know that 'Concert' and 'Live At Knebworth' were heavily doctored and that 'Lei'd In Hawaii' was even going to be entirely re-recorded in the studio, but how about 'Live In London', 'In Concert' and 'Songs From Here & Back'? Are those recordings all "pure"? I read somewhere that the Knebworth concert wasn't much overdubbed, just with some backing vocals and a guitar or something. When I spoke with him some five years after the show, Steve Desper told me the tapes of the show were extensively overdubbed as the original intention was for the gig to be released as a video album for the 20th anniversary. I think Steve may be confusing the shows he worked on in that period. When I mixed the project we found that aside from a single track of group bg vocals that were overdubbed and some scattered xtra guitar tracks the show was not overdubbed. The lead vocals are all live..... Hope that helps...... Mark Mark,about the DVD release of the Knebworth concert... was that autotune used on Mike's vocals? Title: Re: How \ Post by: shelter on July 19, 2009, 04:44:32 AM The BBs in Concert (73) Painstakingly edited together and overdubbed in the studio. Edited together, yes, but who said anything about studio overdubs on that album? Title: Re: How \ Post by: Andrew G. Doe on July 19, 2009, 04:53:38 AM The BBs in Concert (73) Painstakingly edited together and overdubbed in the studio. Edited together, yes, but who said anything about studio overdubs on that album? Reportedly, they had to all but pull Carl away from the mixing desk in order to get it out on schedule. Title: Re: How \ Post by: Alex11 on July 19, 2009, 05:09:01 AM Songs from here & back:
The "live" songs from the late 80s were at the time recorded for the "endless summer" tv series. if you watch the clips today you get the feeling they weren't completely "live" at the time (overdubbed for TV). If you listen to "Kokomo" from this concert on "Songs from here & back", the sax solo by Michael Brecker is missing. So they were worked over then and are again edited for the "SFHB" CD. Greetings from germany... Title: Re: How \ Post by: Sheriff John Stone on July 19, 2009, 06:36:29 AM On "Dance Dance Dance" from Songs From Here And Back...I know it's supposed to be the original live vocals, but Mike's lead always sounded "added" to me.
Title: Re: How \ Post by: Smilin Ed H on July 19, 2009, 10:33:48 AM I always thought Concert could have done with more overdubbing - the guitar on SOS, for example.
Title: Re: How Post by: Sound of Free on July 19, 2009, 03:50:23 PM I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but why was Dennis snubbed on "In Concert," except for the cover photo?
Title: Re: How \ Post by: Matt H on July 19, 2009, 05:37:47 PM I don't get that either, especially since they were doing a decent amount of his songs at some shows. They could have at least used his lead on Help Me Rhonda.
I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but why was Dennis snubbed on "In Concert," except for the cover photo? Title: Re: How \ Post by: Sheriff John Stone on July 19, 2009, 06:19:52 PM I don't get that either, especially since they were doing a decent amount of his songs at some shows. They could have at least used his lead on Help Me Rhonda. I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but why was Dennis snubbed on "In Concert," except for the cover photo? Which songs by Dennis were they consistently performing in 1973, and which ones would've you included on the In Concert album? Title: Re: How \ Post by: TdHabib on July 19, 2009, 07:42:41 PM I don't get that either, especially since they were doing a decent amount of his songs at some shows. They could have at least used his lead on Help Me Rhonda. I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but why was Dennis snubbed on "In Concert," except for the cover photo? Which songs by Dennis were they consistently performing in 1973, and which ones would've you included on the In Concert album? Title: Re: How \ Post by: Aegir on July 19, 2009, 10:14:37 PM I think I remember reading an interview or something that they had to rerecord all the piano tracks on In Concert.
Title: Re: How \ Post by: Dave in KC on July 19, 2009, 10:35:11 PM Dennis was doing YASB at every show during that period. Always a special moment.
Title: Re: How \ Post by: Dove Nested Towers on July 19, 2009, 11:17:28 PM I don't get that either, especially since they were doing a decent amount of his songs at some shows. They could have at least used his lead on Help Me Rhonda. I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but why was Dennis snubbed on "In Concert," except for the cover photo? Which songs by Dennis were they consistently performing in 1973, and which ones would've you included on the In Concert album? Wow, Cuddle Up, River Song and Forever would've really made that album incredible. Never knew that the 1st two were done live. Title: Re: How \ Post by: TonyW on July 20, 2009, 12:41:47 AM Of the 17 shows AGD listed earlier in this thread which were recorded during 72 and 73 only three of the shows are on Eric's (wonderful) set list archive - a quick bit of cross referencing shows that "rarities" performed and recorded during this period but still to see the light of day in an official release are:
California Saga: California California Saga: Big Sur Surf's Up It's About Time River Song Wild Honey Jumpin Jack Flash ... who knows (?? - oh to be that man) what else from these shows is sitting in the Brother tape library ... this whole live band era is just screaming out for a good box set treatment - it was an era when the live Beach Boys were the benchmark for other bands performing live and these were the performances which revitalised the bands career .. come on BRI, come on Capital, we don't want another compilation with Barbara Freakin' Ann or God Only Knows, we want Surf's Up live!!! Title: Re: How \ Post by: Smilin Ed H on July 20, 2009, 01:38:30 AM "Dennis was doing YASB at every show during that period. Always a special moment." Doubtless sung better than in the late 70s too!
Title: Re: How \ Post by: shelter on July 20, 2009, 03:39:34 AM If you look at the shows & sessions list on AGD's site, there are dozens and dozens of shows that were recorded throughout the years for 'possible live albums'... So it shouldn't be too hard to compile a kick-ass live box set...
Title: Re: How \ Post by: The Heartical Don on July 20, 2009, 04:50:04 AM Don't want to interrupt the flow of the thread, but -
I really, really wish that 'Knebworth' would have been 'doctored' a bit, only a few seconds edited out: the end of 'Lady Lynda', where mr. Love totally ruins the beautiful coda by yelling out loud: AAALLL JAAARR-DIIINNNE!!! I am quite sure that Johann Sebastian Bach is still turning in his grave to this day. Title: Re: How \ Post by: phirnis on July 20, 2009, 05:04:50 AM Never found yourself wanting to shout Al Jardine's name atop a timeless Bach melody?
Title: Re: How \ Post by: The Heartical Don on July 20, 2009, 05:07:29 AM Never found yourself wanting to shout Al Jardine's name atop a timeless Bach melody? :lol ...priceless... Title: Re: How \ Post by: Smilin Ed H on July 20, 2009, 06:39:20 AM Yelling would be okay, but he whined!
Title: Re: How \ Post by: Foster's Freeze on July 20, 2009, 06:41:21 AM Never found yourself wanting to shout Al Jardine's name atop a timeless Bach melody? LOL! ;D Title: Re: How \ Post by: Jon Stebbins on July 20, 2009, 09:45:38 AM Dennis was doing YASB at every show during that period. Always a special moment. He didn't start singing YASB in the live set until early to mid-1975. Title: Re: How \ Post by: Ed Roach on July 20, 2009, 12:45:29 PM Of the 72 gigs I can’t really say, but for God’s sake he did “Cuddle Up” with them in August with the Boston Commons Orchestra…and if the audience recording I have is anything to go by…it was fantastic, beautful. Like MBE said awhile back, he should've had his own side to the album. Good God, I'd love to hear a recording of that show! I'm sure that I knew he was going to do "Cuddle Up", and that I positioned myself to really be able to listen, but I'd completely forgotten that he did it that night with the orchestra. I was sort of trapped right in with the orchestra, and as far as I can remember, I only have photos that are closeups of members of The Philharmonic - it was them, wasn't it? I remember being out front for some of the rehearsal, and really looking forward to that set, as the band themselves were, but for some reason, once the set began, I couldn't leave the spot where I was positioned. Whew, another long-ago memory, and one that's going to send me digging into the archives once again! He didn't start singing YASB in the live set until early to mid-1975. Thank you, Jon; I knew that didn't sound right! Title: Re: How Post by: Sound of Free on July 20, 2009, 06:14:15 PM "Cuddle Up" was definitely one I was thinking of. It also would have been great to hear "I've Got a Friend." Even if they weren't in the regular setlist at the time, I would have figured someone would have thought, "Hey, we're recording a live album, let's get a song or at least a lead vocal from Dennis."
Title: Re: How \ Post by: TdHabib on July 20, 2009, 06:15:49 PM Of the 72 gigs I can’t really say, but for God’s sake he did “Cuddle Up” with them in August with the Boston Commons Orchestra…and if the audience recording I have is anything to go by…it was fantastic, beautful. Like MBE said awhile back, he should've had his own side to the album. Good God, I'd love to hear a recording of that show! I'm sure that I knew he was going to do "Cuddle Up", and that I positioned myself to really be able to listen, but I'd completely forgotten that he did it that night with the orchestra. I was sort of trapped right in with the orchestra, and as far as I can remember, I only have photos that are closeups of members of The Philharmonic - it was them, wasn't it? I remember being out front for some of the rehearsal, and really looking forward to that set, as the band themselves were, but for some reason, once the set began, I couldn't leave the spot where I was positioned. Whew, another long-ago memory, and one that's going to send me digging into the archives once again! Go to the sounds section of this website and you'll find it: http://www.danaddington.com/denny/ Title: Re: How Post by: Jay on July 20, 2009, 08:20:58 PM We all know that 'Concert' and 'Live At Knebworth' were heavily doctored and that 'Lei'd In Hawaii' was even going to be entirely re-recorded in the studio, but how about 'Live In London', 'In Concert' and 'Songs From Here & Back'? Are those recordings all "pure"? I read somewhere that the Knebworth concert wasn't much overdubbed, just with some backing vocals and a guitar or something. When I spoke with him some five years after the show, Steve Desper told me the tapes of the show were extensively overdubbed as the original intention was for the gig to be released as a video album for the 20th anniversary. I think Steve may be confusing the shows he worked on in that period. When I mixed the project we found that aside from a single track of group bg vocals that were overdubbed and some scattered xtra guitar tracks the show was not overdubbed. The lead vocals are all live..... Hope that helps...... Mark Mark,about the DVD release of the Knebworth concert... was that autotune used on Mike's vocals? Title: Re: How \ Post by: MBE on July 20, 2009, 08:36:24 PM I don't get that either, especially since they were doing a decent amount of his songs at some shows. They could have at least used his lead on Help Me Rhonda. I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but why was Dennis snubbed on "In Concert," except for the cover photo? Which songs by Dennis were they consistently performing in 1973, and which ones would've you included on the In Concert album? Wow you remembered! I really can't love that album because I know what Dennis was doing at the time. What's there is mostly good but man Dennis was at his peak and it was wasted. Title: Re: Cuddle Up Post by: Ed Roach on July 21, 2009, 12:33:54 PM Good news Ed, it's online: Go to the sounds section of this website and you'll find it: http://www.danaddington.com/denny/ I actually had listened to that there, quite awhile ago, and don't think I realized that it was from that particular show. Thank you! Wow you remembered! I really can't love that album because I know what Dennis was doing at the time. What's there is mostly good but man Dennis was at his peak and it was wasted. I know; I remember thinking at the time how bizarre that was, and yet, not untypical of how they tried to belittle Dennis and his talent. And it was often at their own expense, too! Title: Re: How \ Post by: MBE on July 21, 2009, 02:56:00 PM The funny thing is Ed if you listen to the Cuddle Up intro Mike goes out of his way to tell the crowd to shut up and listen. I also have a tape of him introducing I've Got A Friend as one of his favorite songs.
Title: Re: How \ Post by: Awesoman on July 22, 2009, 09:50:32 PM The BBs in Concert (73) Painstakingly edited together and overdubbed in the studio. If this album had been over-dubbed in the studio, I would wonder exactly *what* they did with it. The harmonies on this one always sounded kind of ragged; but maybe that's what they were shooting for. :-) Title: Re: Cuddle Up Post by: shelter on July 23, 2009, 11:30:52 AM not untypical of how they tried to belittle Dennis and his talent.[/b] Did they really? At least until that time? Let's take a look at all the singles that the group released in the five years after Dennis started to emerge as a songwriter... I underlined the songs Dennis wrote or co-wrote: Friends/Little Bird Do It Again/Wake The World Bluebirds Over The Mountains/Never Learn Not To Love I Can Hear Music/All I Want To Do Break Away/Celebrate The News Add Some Music/Susie Cincinnati Cotton Fields/Nearest Faraway Place Slip On Through/This Whole World Tears In The Morning/It's About Time Cool Cool Water/Forever Long Promised Road/Deirdre * Long Promised Road/Til I Die * Surf's Up/Don't Go Near The Water * You Need A Mess Of Help/Cuddle Up Marcella/Hold On Dear Brother Sail On Sailor/Only With You * = singles from Surf's Up album, Dennis withdrew his songs from that one. It could be argued that they should've given him some more A-sides (especially Forever should've been an A-side, obviously), but it's hard to say they completely ignored his efforts... Title: Re: How \ Post by: Sheriff John Stone on July 23, 2009, 11:55:21 AM Good points, Shelter. There's also The David Frost Show, a pretty popular show at the time, and the group performed "Lady" a Dennis Wilson song that had ALREADY been released as a solo record.
Title: Re: How \ Post by: Ed Roach on July 23, 2009, 02:57:43 PM You know, I've gotta go back and really and look much more closely at that time period. You can't deny they were looking at him as their 'next big thing', albeit somewhat begrudgingly, even performing "Never Learn Not to Love" on Mike Douglas! I remember him being somewhat in control of things on the road & everywhere for a really brief period, then something happened, (prior to "Surf's Up", too), and he was back to being persona non grata. Probably had a lot to do with all of the quick tours that had to be thrown together to keep him from being able to testify.
Title: Re: How \ Post by: Ian on July 23, 2009, 03:35:50 PM Personally-I'd like to see a DVD release of the complete Campfire concert taped for the 89 TV show-this is a fun live show-with great energy and spirit
Title: Re: How \ Post by: TdHabib on July 23, 2009, 08:45:03 PM Personally-I'd like to see a DVD release of the complete Campfire concert taped for the 89 TV show-this is a fun live show-with great energy and spirit Brian is so close to normal in those (at least judging from the YT clips) it's ridiculous...he's requesting Carl to do songs, doing falsetto---STRONG falsetto too with Jeff Foskett doubling--on "In My Room," "Surfer Girl," "Hushabye," "Be My Baby," and others, joking around with Mike, remembering Dennis...it completely changed my judgment that he was a trapped vegetable during the Landy years...he was under duress sometimes but shined during others. |