The Smiley Smile Message Board

What if, after the M.I.U. album, the band decided to go in a whole 'nuther direction.  Instead of jumping on the then-descending disco bandwagon, they had instead gone really cutting edge and decided to make a punk rock album?  After all, the Ramones were really a dumbed-down version of the 1962-era Beach Boys.  (Imagine "I Wanna Be Sedated" with BBs harmonies.  Pretty cool eh?)

I am kidding, of course, but when you consider the band actually did a hip-hop remake of "Surfin'," which is a much larger genre stretch, it's actually not as ludicrous as it sounds.  And on LOVE YOU Brian did come very close to anticipating the Human League.

You can see it now.  1979.  The trade ads.  'THE BEACH BOYS HATE YOU.  The Beach Boys have found a new wave.'

Thoughts?

Would of possibly been the greatest album title of all time

First of all, I don't think the Beach Boys jumped on the "disco bandwagon" after MIU. They recorded one disco song (granted it was seven minutes too long); but it's not like they recorded a few, an entire side, or an entire album. I always viewed it as much of an experiment as a direction, almost as if they just wanted to see what they could do with it, how it would sound, how it would turn out. They got their asses kicked, and that was that.

I always felt the Beach Boys recorded what and how they felt AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME. Right or wrong, good or bad, united or divided, as a whole, I think what came out was really where they were at that time. That's not to say Dennis was supportive, or maybe Carl felt a different way, or maybe Mike didn't agree with something. But, I don't think they faked it.

Which brings us to your idea, a punk album. Did any of the guys listen to that genre? Could/did they at least appreciate it? I've never read anything about it. What I'm getting at is that it might've sounded forced, because simply, they weren't a punk rock group. That being said, I think they could've come up with something at least respectable. The reason I say that is because, right around that time, 1979-1980, they were starting to rock - hard. Listen or watch that 1980 tour, especially the Knebworth DVD. They were rocking, with Ed Carter on lead guitar and Dennis really pounding away. That was a rock concert in some ways. Was that the loudest and most furious they ever played? And, while the production doesn't do it justice, Keepin' The Summer Alive could've rocked even more; the songs called for it in places.

So, yeah, they could've done as punk album. But, and there's always a but, it might've sounded a bit self-conscious, or dated (because of their ages). Would've it sounded too much like an experiment, in the same vein as "Here Comes The Night"? Is that where they were - musically - at that time? Carl and Al would've definitely had to "toughen up" their voices, and Mike's nasality (is that a word?) might've been a problem. They'd have to sound angrier. Would've the public "bought it"? I'd a bought it! ;D

You know, some of their early stuff wouldn't sound too bad as punk. 'Little Honda', 'Fun Fun Fun', 'Don't Back Down', 'Little Deuce Coupe'. An interesting twist on some songs that have been overplayed. In fact, I think that DBD showed up on the 'imagination' vhs played by a punk band....

Are you kidding, that's been David's fantasy for the Beach Boys since 1962 !!!  I should upload video to YouTube of him playing with  Al and Dean a few months ago...his rhythm guitar is up pretty loud in the house mix and it sounds a lot like what you are describing.

Lead single: "Don't F*** With The Formula".

And, of course, "Anarchy in the USA".

"My stuff was always about positivity, I'm Mr. Positive," Love said, the blood and pus still oozing from the hole he pierced in his own nose with a rusty safety pin. "And I am positive I fucking hate you. This, along with meditation is something that the Maharishi taught me when I was in Rishikesh with the Beatles. On that trip, I helped Paul McCartney write a little song called 'Back in the USSR'--I'm sure you've heard it. Well, we're doing a revved up version on our new album, The Beach Boys Hate You.

"That album, I should say, has a very interesting title--one that I came up with. I've always been a titles man, as you know. Pet Sounds is another one I came up with. But Hate You was, I thought, a very funny little play on words because a few years ago we came out with an album titled Love You. And I think that's really clever. But honestly, I think this album will be a great success, especially if the record company backs it with the kind of support we deserve--something they have not done with recent offerings, honestly not since Endless Summer (which I also titled, by the way). I mean, this will be a hit: Brian is truly back, and he's writing some great things, some creative things."

At this point the interview was interrupted by the sound of rhythm guitarist Al Jardine making the short fall from a standing position to the floor when the Boys were going to initiate him into punkdom with his own piercing. Jardine fainted when a shockingly furious-looking Bruce Johnston, pin in hand, shouted he was a "folk-tilted p*ssy." Love began to laugh. The interview, it seemed, was over.

The 1964 live recording of "What'd I Say" is pretty darn punk. 

Melodic songs, with punk rock energy and loud guitars...add some songs about the environment and globalism.

Thirty years too late, eh?  :smokin

Was it the Queers who did a "punk" vesion of Don't Back Down, shown on the Imagination DVD? I have heard a handful of other Beach Boys' songs covered by punk artists, most notably Me First and The Gimme Gimmes (Sloop John B).

Nice work, but at some point he should have been referred to as "The Hatester".

I heard a kick ass punk version of wendy on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-brwVv0fiWI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-brwVv0fiWI)

Oh and the Ramones covered a BB tune I think.

Oh and of course

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--6p9JsK7yE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--6p9JsK7yE)

They are really a band, they do shitty covers of the BB  :lol

Would HAVE, Wild Honey, would HAVE!

Why y'all gotta be hatin' on Dr. Love, fellas? Good stuff. :lol

o no, no that topic again...

Listen to the Surfin USA or Fun Fun Fun  from the 73 In Concert album... gets pretty close as well.

The Queers covered quite some Beach Boys songs. They did Don't Back Down, Little Honda, Salt Lake City and God Only Knows (unlisted bonus track, actually their own voices over the original backing track) and they also have a song called Brian Wilson.

Though perhaps Punk would have been a bit of a stretch I think they could have taken a cedible leap into the Power-Pop genre of which they would have had considerable influence over originally (think Big Star and The Raspberries in the early 70s but Cheap Trick, Dwight Twilley etc in the late 70s).
As pointed out, the 73 'in concert' album has near raucous guitar versions of their early hits, its a shame that this approach never carried over into the studio albums, even of the same period (Holland isn't particularly guitar heavy). As also said there is something of the early Beach Boys in the Ramones.
When I heard the version of 'Do Ya' by Jad Fair on the 'Caroline Now!' album, I thought that was a good indication of how they could have sounded in the late 70s, after Love You would have been the prime time to do it as there were a lot of simple, melodic and catchy songs which could have been turned into Power-Pop gems - Do Ya, Almost summer, It's ok (that had already obviously been done but still a good example), even a lot of stuff on the MIU album (a favourite of mine) has an almost raw production under the strings and keyboards (love the drum sound on it), imagine those songs with added crunchy guitars and they would have been on a winning streak.
Sadly the middle of the road beckoned and the turgid LA light album and KTSA alive are good examples of this...

Punk is the one popular genre of music the Beach Boys didn't touch. It would've been great.

Almost everything in '64 was punk. TAMI-show, the "Concert"-album (listen to the unedited performances). As soon as brian was no longer touring they sounded kinda tired. That began to change in '68 luckily...

"How She Boogalooed It" is pure 60's garage punk as Lenny Kaye would have defined it. A lot of the records that aped the Beach Boys early sound in the 60s ("Surfin' Bird", "California Sun") could certainly be considered the progenitors of the 70s punk rock explosion (there's a reason these songs were covered by the Ramones early in their career).

I think Dennis would have made the most convincing punk rocker; his "All I Want To Do" (albeit with Mike singing lead) is pretty darn close to what the Sex Pistols and Clash would sound like a decade later.

If we're comparing the Beach Boys to what is considered "punk" these days (mainstream, slickly-produced), then THE BEACH BOYS LOVE YOU already is a punk album!

Some people here seem a little in the dark regarding the BB's and the roots of punk, others have made excellent points and thrown out examples(How She Boogalooed It is a great one...definite bubblegum-punk). Many many rock historians through the years have drawn the connection between the Beach Boys early sound and the beginnings of garage punk, or more specifically surf punk. The Ramones were considered the architects of '70's punk and they based much of their fundamental format on the structure of the early BB's sound, they took a little Spector, a little BB's/Jan and Dean and speeded it way up and removed the harmonic and production elements, keeping the same type of chord changes and some of the melodic and thematic attitude. The Ramones first three LP's are basically cartoonish versions of the Surfin USA sound on amphetamine with Marshall amps. British punk spawned from the Ramones, so the BB's are in there, they influenced that genre.

The early BB's projected a kind of sneer in the Pendelton shirt era, especially David Marks and Dennis Wilson, both are considered punk pioneers. Mike Love also had a punkish attitude on some of the early records, especially the surf and hot rod stuff. Live...yeah...the '62 to '64 BB's could be very punk. Dennis was all out when let off the leash, Dave Marks and Carl's guitars had an edge,there was punk potential that was softened and later  doused by other elements of the band, as well as the BB's well -played emphasis on their vocal prowess. There were garage punk pioneers all over the states long before "punk rock" became a staple genre. The Pacific Northwest was fertile with groups like the Sonics, Wailers, Raiders, Kingsmen...btw...the BB's were doing Louie Louie in their live set two years before the Kingsmen's national hit. the S.F. Bay Area produced some of the best garage punk, Syndicate of Sound, Choc. Watchband, Count Five...L.A. alwys had a bunch of punks, Seeds, Love, Standells. NY was perhaps ahead of the rest in sheer dark attitude, Velvet Underground etc... But the BB's preceded all of it on a national level. Surfin Safari has a garage punk vibe...there is no doubt about it. Surfin USA takes that a little further, a little faster. I think a late '70's punkish record by the BB's would have been a smart move, some elements of BB's Love You are already there. The opening track for sure. Brian had some punk in him too. IMO the BB's were much closer to punk than they ever were to disco...therefore even though Adam had tongue in cheek with the BB's Hate You concept...if things had played out the way they should have the BB's would have re-embraced the re-rumblings of punk in '75/76 and 15 Big Ones would have been a harder, rawer, more stripped down rock or punk sounding record. That would have put them back on the cutting edge.

I picked up the guitar at the age of 13 because of the Beach Boys (among a few other artists). Just for perspective, I'm 30 now. Around the time of high school, I really got into some punk bands and garage rock stuff (Ramones and Social Distortion were big favorites of mine).

Having had experience playing Beach Boy songs, I quickly realized just how similar their music is to some punk stuff. This is especially the case with their early material, with Carl and David on guitar. Take for instance "Shut Down." If you added distortion to the guitars, it'd be a punk song. Even the tempo of the original is right.

Other songs like "Surfin' Safari", Dennis' drumming and the guitars on "Surf Jam"...not to diminish these songs, but they're like punk songs without the distortion and with great vocal harmonies. As a matter of fact, my old band used to play "Shut Down" much like the original, but with a little more dirt (overdrive) on the guitars. Those chords changes are perfect and aren't all that dissimilar to a number of Ramones song.

Seminal Australian punk band Radio Birdman used to include Surf City and Surfin' in their live sets ... I believe there is a live boot from 76 doing the rounds ... although the Radio Birdman sound had more to do with Iggy and The Stooges and the MC5 they had a core surf punk ethos - two of the band members (Gilbert & Masuak) used to frequent a pub I used to go to wth a very cool 60s (think Nuggets) jukebox and they used to play the Dick Dale, Surfaris, Beach Boys, Jan and Dean tracks a lot.

What I really wanted was for the Beach Boys to have recorded a spiritual reggae album called "The Beach Boys Love Jah" ... :smokin... (I'll get my hat & coat ........ )

Great, so we could get a whole album in the style of "Sunshine" from Keepin' The Summer Alive. Egad! I don't think the BBs could do reggae.

How about a dub companion album to The Beach Boys Love You?

inna dub style!  :smokin

Wow, a lot of very thoughtful posts to something I just threw up here in a puckish mood (Sheriff John Stone, I see your humor meter is still broken.  "Here Comes The Night '79" is one of my favorite Beach Boys tracks, btw).

If you want to take this idea seriously, I think the main problem with the Beach Boys doing something like this Luther touched on his hysterical post...Mike Love in particular but most of the band were very concerned with projecting a positive image and the whole punk thing as perceived in '78 ran totally counter to that.  That's NOT a diss...it's actually a valid branding decision and embracing punk would have been a risk.  The point's already been made that LOVE YOU is very, very close to punk rock already, and the general reaction to that album in mainstream rock circles (as opposed to among critics) was a resounding wtf?  So going further in that direction would have been a risky move that could well have blown up in their faces.

They didn't completely go MOR though.  As S.J. Stone correctly points out (again kindly educating me about the finer points of Beach Boys history), the BBs band in the KTSA era was pretty rocking live, and one of the reasons I like L.A. (LIGHT ALBUM) so much is that it was made in 1979, and in 1979 even MOR bands were embracing new wave elements in the studio (I direct you to "Love Surrounds Me" and "Angel Come Home" in particular the creepy synths, percussion and Bruce Johnston's Oberheim overdubs...not to mention "Shortenin' Bread," which is LOVE YOU redux).

ABSOLUTELY the Beach Boys have a punk connection.  I have to tell a short story that I don't tell very often because it's so on point to this.

In the early '90s I was one of those geeky insecure kids that did not listen to and could not relate to anything punk or college radio-related.  I was into my Beach Boys, Raspberries, and '70s pop, a few '80s bands like Crowded House, and that was it.  I might not have ever changed except my band at the time was sharing rehearsal space with my bass player's roommates.  The band happened to be Weezer.  Rivers Cuomo was a HUGE Beach Boys fan, and used to ask me about Beach Boys trivia.  The day they got signed to Geffen I realized there was something about the way I was approaching music that wasn't working and I asked Rivers what he thought I was doing wrong.  He was a true friend and told me.  It boiled down to "stop trying to make people love you, and start trying to make people understand you.  Forget about playing an industry game, get out of your musical cocoon, take your unique influences and make them cool."

He and my bass player then gave me a box full of tapes to go with me on a cross-country road trip.  There was no Beach Boys, Elton John or any of my comfort food.  There were a few power pop bands like the then-new Jellyfish and Rembrandts, but there was also Pixies, Goo Goo Dolls, Replacements, Sonic Youth, Husker Du.

So I'm listening to this stuff in the car and it's just like noise to me and I basically tolerated it until I put in the first Frank Black album.  About two songs in he launches into a punked-out cover of "Hang Onto Your Ego" and I swear to God it was like this giant light bulb went off in my head.  All of a sudden I got the connection between the pop music I loved and punk rock.  It was the same thing!  What's more it was MY music....it was the same concept that, as Jon Stebbins has pointed out, drew me to Dennis Wilson's music.  The idea of taking the Beach Boys sound and making something different and cool with it.

After that I could not get enough punk rock.  My concept of music expanded and changed.  I snapped up every punk compilation I could find, discovering bands like the Damned, Stiff Little Fingers, Stranglers, Sham 69, Rezillos, and in the process opening the door to appreciating roots music and folk...it was all about stripping a song down to its emotional essentials.  The bells and whistles can be wonderful, but they can also obscure the fact that there's no song there, or that your song isn't saying anything substantial.

I went home, started a punk-ish pop band called Cockeyed Ghost, applied the theory, and got signed in about 18 months.  We used to do a very punked-out version of "Good Vibrations" (with 3-pieces!) as a showpiece in concert.  I've gravitated more back to my pop roots then, but because of that there's a rock edge to everything I do that wouldn't have been there and that helps the emotional core of the song.  On my album that comes out next month, GO WEST, there's all kinds of instances of using the Beach Boys idea in a different context...for instance there's a thunderous, intense, Smashing Pumpkins-like song called "1 in 4" that derives a lot of its thunder from studying how Dennis played the drums and the minimal way the Beach Boys arranged their tracks on some of their '70s albums.  It doesn't sound anything like the Beach Boys (I pointed this out to Earle Mankey and he was like "huh?"), but I used what I learned from them every step of the way.

Carrie, loved your post!  You tell David to rock on!

I never really thought of LOVE YOU as a punkish album, Adam, but it's a fair assesment. Really it's an album of variations on the bridge to "Be My Baby," you hear that chord change over and over on the album...ever noticed that?

Wow....no I didn't!  Good catch.  Probably "Shortenin' Bread" as well.

As far as LOVE YOU being punk (and I wasn't the only one to make that connection), it depends on how you define "punk."  If you're talking strictly snarly guitar pop, then, no, it's not punk at all, though there were keyboard-oriented punk bands (Suicide for one, which was just a keyboard and a vocal IIRC).

As far as attitude, I think it has all the elements.  Does it embrace the DIY ethos?  Absolutely.  Does it say what the foda, I'm going to express myself and damn how anyone else perceives it?  You bet.  Does it sacrifice technical ability for effect?  Yup.  Is it aggressive and harsh sonically?  More so than any other Beach Boys album.  And needless to say, the vocals are just as ragged as the guy in Sham 69's ever were.

Look no further than the opening track:  the hugest snare ever heard on a Beach Boys record, a buzzsaw moog bass, a quarter note organ figure that screams "stoopid." Carl yelling "HEY!" in his "Mess of Help" voice.  It comes on pretty strong.  You don't have to stretch to call that punk rock.  It IS punk rock.

No, no, no, Adam....I really DO find your posts humorous. ;D

Yes. And if you ever get to hear the piano demo of "Little Children" recorded around that time (it's on Brian Loves You), it becomes obvious that the song is just a variation of "Da Doo Ron Ron". Imagine if Phil Spector and "Shortenin' Bread" never existed. Brian's career would have been COMPLETELY different.

I thought that song was more a rip of Mountain of Love?

I actually prefer that version/arrangement; completely different feel. 

OK, you're right, so it's a variation of "Mountain of Love" and "Da Doo Ron Ron". The way he plays the piano on the demo is highly reminiscent of "Da Doo Ron Ron", while the vocal melody is similar to "Mountain of Love". Despite being so derivative (which is probably why it wasn't on Love You), I really love that demo.

I could see it happening, but they would have to follow it up with a post-punk album to stay current.  Something like The Return Of The Beach Boys produced by Martin Hannett and featuring John McGeoch on guitar, Peter Hook on bass, and Dennis Wilson on drums (on every track).  Okay, sure that would have never happened, but as long as were talking fiction here I think it's okay to dream.

Awesome!  :afro

Hehe... great idea! They surely had enough hair to turn that into dreadlocks. And they liked their spliffs (Mike only had a fake one in his hands, never inhaled).  And, in true Jamdown stylee, the titles would have been unspeakably dull:

Let Us Go On This Dub
Roller Skating Dub
Mona Version
Honking Dub
Ding Dub
Solar Dub
Night Dub
Airplane (Version)
Let's Put Our Dub Together
Dub Is A Woman (Inna Irie Style)

and, of course, with King Tubby at the controls...

And for the follow up.... The Beach Boys Really Love You, a collection of slow jams designed to get those lovin' good vibrations a-happenin'...

Is that where Kenny G came into the picture?

I know, I might get a lifelong ban for this...

Actually, I would be really excited by a dub version of Love You if it was done well, I could see that working really well.  Just not a remix album.  :/

Some day....some day. :hat

I think Lee "Scratch" Perry on the job would be better. His style would compliment Brian's. You know there'd be a whole lot of flutes.

Good call. Perry seldom took out the whole of the melody and let the drums and bass only then go on a long time (with faders, mainly). Perry was more into melodic dub, using a simple phaser to color the vocal harmonies a bit, and yes, he loved flutes and Ernie Ranglin's majestic guitar work.

There are few classic albums that I love as a whole, unreservedly. 'Heart Of The Congoes' is one of these.

Love that album. The first time I heard the opening track, "Fisherman," it completely blew my mind. Just a great roots reggae record with Perry's touch. I know it's not from Love You, but songs like "Caroline No" or "The Little Girl I Once Knew" would be great dub material. The flutes in Caroline No and definitely the bass line in "Little Girl". Such a heavy bass sound in that song. Unbelievable how it wasn't a hit. To bad it's never on "oldies" or "rock" radio these days.

Love You is definitly punk ALL thd ramones best songs reflected a prevalent beach boys influence/

This is well worth checking out for some Beach Boys punk covers

(http://eil.com/images/main/Brian+Wilson+-+Smiles,+Vibes+%26+Harmony+-+CD+ALBUM-552563.jpg)

I went looking for a good Dub Version of Pet Sounds recently.  This was what I found.

https://soundcloud.com/the-assessor-1/sets/pet-sounds-in-dub/

The early version of Ding Dang is even more punk than the released song. Also Shortnen Bread has a punk sound. Brian might have had the ability to mix punk and doo wop the way he mixed Chuck Berry and the Freshman! I also heard a boot from the late 70s that Brian has screaming punk vocals. I can't remember what it's called.

Regarding the KTSA tour, Carl sounds pretty angry punk style on that great performance of Darlin' from Knebworth.

excellent point.  also check out the live boot of We Got Love....from the Nassau or or 93 live boot.....or even Funky Pretty live from one of those boots.  Not exactly the Beach Boys Hate you but still pretty raw and powerful.  One could assemble an entire CD of such material.  It exists.

"L.A. Punk Album"
1.Good riot
2. Screw Bach (we'll just steal his song)
3.(get drunk off of) Full Sail
4.Satan come home
5.hate surrounds me
6. bomb sumahama
7.Death is for the living
8.D-r-u-g is on the way
9. Baby (beat black and blue)
10.Going to hell (for the winter)
11.Everyone wants to kill
12. Snorting Lines
13.It's over now (Bitch)
14. Shortening Bread

"I put a lot of hate into this album", mentioned Brian. 

(http://i61.tinypic.com/ezepns.jpg)

It's Not Easy Bangin' Me.
Lewd and Horny.
Whores and Willing.
Hot f*** in the Summertime.
I Don't Love You.
It Ain't Necessarily So Consensual.
Let Him Cum Wild.
The Little Girl I'll Once Do.
The Nearest Faraway Motel.
She Blows Me Too Well.
Lootin' Bank With Love.
Take A Load On Your Chin.
Slave Trader.
When A Man Does A Woman.
The Hooker Man.
Hump Me Rhonda.
Don't Hump My Little Sister.
Had To Bone Ya.
I'll Be Sober for Christmas.
Island Girl (I'm Gonna Make Her Moan).
Dick Surrounds Her.
Maybe I Don't Hoe.
My Homo Heart.
Our SAAB Club.

I'd add these:

1.) Hey Little Dub Boy
2.) Mr. Positivity Hates You
3.) Jimmy Fallon

 :3d

(http://i60.tinypic.com/5p0aj9.png)

HEY LOOIESVILLE!!!! WE HAAAAATE YOU!

Pest Sounds.
Let's Do Her Friend For Awhile.

She's Got Hate
Come Hate With Me
Hey Little Hateboy
Hate Coast
Peggy Hate
Wontcha Come Hate Tonight?
Sweet Sunday Kinda Hate
Belles of Hate
Hitter Hater
My Hate
Matchpoint of our Hate
Winds of Hate

Hatin' Safari.
Hatin' U.S.A.