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Title: Rio Grande Post by: The Heartical Don on July 01, 2009, 03:06:21 AM ...I'd like to know what you think about this one. I think that it's too self-conscious, as if Brian (perhaps guided by Landy) thought: 'I must do something big, like Cabinessence, to prove that I still 'got it''.
As a whole, I find it overwrought. But I am very fond of segments in it, e.g. the 'Night Blooming Jasmine' thing, the 'campfire/mandolin' wordless chant, and esp. the 'surf waltz' section, 'She's Waiting For Me On The Other Side'. That last one should have been a song onto itself, Brians sounds so comfortable: 'Who-oh-oh-oh-oh-yay-yay-yay...'. What about you? Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: c-man on July 01, 2009, 04:26:35 AM ...I'd like to know what you think about this one. I think that it's too self-conscious, as if Brian (perhaps guided by Landy) thought: 'I must do something big, like Cabinessence, to prove that I still 'got it''. As a whole, I find it overwrought. But I am very fond of segments in it, e.g. the 'Night Blooming Jasmine' thing, the 'campfire/mandolin' wordless chant, and esp. the 'surf waltz' section, 'She's Waiting For Me On The Other Side'. That last one should have been a song onto itself, Brians sounds so comfortable: 'Who-oh-oh-oh-oh-yay-yay-yay...'. What about you? It was Lenny Waronker's idea, but it's pretty good IMO. I remember thinking, "We would never have expected THIS out of Brian just a few years ago". Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: The Heartical Don on July 01, 2009, 04:46:11 AM ...I'd like to know what you think about this one. I think that it's too self-conscious, as if Brian (perhaps guided by Landy) thought: 'I must do something big, like Cabinessence, to prove that I still 'got it''. As a whole, I find it overwrought. But I am very fond of segments in it, e.g. the 'Night Blooming Jasmine' thing, the 'campfire/mandolin' wordless chant, and esp. the 'surf waltz' section, 'She's Waiting For Me On The Other Side'. That last one should have been a song onto itself, Brians sounds so comfortable: 'Who-oh-oh-oh-oh-yay-yay-yay...'. What about you? It was Lenny Waronker's idea, but it's pretty good IMO. I remember thinking, "We would never have expected THIS out of Brian just a few years ago". Did Waronker have a hand in the song's contents? Did he think up themes? Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: hypehat on July 01, 2009, 05:00:58 AM ...I'd like to know what you think about this one. I think that it's too self-conscious, as if Brian (perhaps guided by Landy) thought: 'I must do something big, like Cabinessence, to prove that I still 'got it''. As a whole, I find it overwrought. But I am very fond of segments in it, e.g. the 'Night Blooming Jasmine' thing, the 'campfire/mandolin' wordless chant, and esp. the 'surf waltz' section, 'She's Waiting For Me On The Other Side'. That last one should have been a song onto itself, Brians sounds so comfortable: 'Who-oh-oh-oh-oh-yay-yay-yay...'. What about you? It was Lenny Waronker's idea, but it's pretty good IMO. I remember thinking, "We would never have expected THIS out of Brian just a few years ago". Did Waronker have a hand in the song's contents? Did he think up themes? I think he just came up with the title, and wanted something 'epic' from Brian. Personally, i like it, although it's quite hit and miss. The title rhyme makes me laugh, for some reason - 'rio grande, rio grande, i'd swim you but i can't' just seems very Brian, for some reason :) Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: LostArt on July 01, 2009, 05:04:35 AM ...I'd like to know what you think about this one. I think that it's too self-conscious, as if Brian (perhaps guided by Landy) thought: 'I must do something big, like Cabinessence, to prove that I still 'got it''. Yeah, I agree with you on this. I, too, love all of those sections that you mention, but as a piece it just seems so contrived. I would like to know more about this song. I know the idea to do a Smile-like piece was Waronker's. I assume Brian wrote the sections at different times in his career, and these 'feels' were put together. How much involvement did Brian (or Landy, for that matter) have in the concept, in the lyrics, and in the construction. AGD? Craig? Anyone? Bueller? As a whole, I find it overwrought. But I am very fond of segments in it, e.g. the 'Night Blooming Jasmine' thing, the 'campfire/mandolin' wordless chant, and esp. the 'surf waltz' section, 'She's Waiting For Me On The Other Side'. That last one should have been a song onto itself, Brians sounds so comfortable: 'Who-oh-oh-oh-oh-yay-yay-yay...'. What about you? Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: Roger Ryan on July 01, 2009, 05:11:47 AM I seem to recall (Brian's "autobio"?) that when Waronker suggested a SMiLE-like suite, the original concept was going to be a psychobabble "Infant/Child/Adult" thing. When that was rejected, a "Saturday Morning In The City" concept was kicked around (obviously including that piece of music). Ultimately, it came down to a "Cowboy" theme or "Hawaiian" theme and Waronker said "go with the 'Cowboy' theme". I didn't research any of this; just what I recall off the top of my head regarding the song.
Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: hypehat on July 01, 2009, 01:00:13 PM I seem to recall (Brian's "autobio"?) that when Waronker suggested a SMiLE-like suite, the original concept was going to be a psychobabble "Infant/Child/Adult" thing. I read the original title, proposed by everyone's favourite LA psychiatrist, was 'Life's Suite'. :o I think Waronker, Titleman and Paley had a lot to do with that not happening. The 'saturday morning' thing might have been better, actually. Rio Grande, if anything, was faux-smile, so maybe a 'day in the life' kind of scenario would have been more progressive..... until you consider Brian's day-to-day at the time :-\ Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: lance on July 01, 2009, 01:04:18 PM Its forced but I like it anyway.
Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: The Shift on July 01, 2009, 01:54:26 PM I love it. It's little more than a collection of segued chants really but even more appealing for that. The cowboy section is my fave bit but who knows whether that was a Wilson bit, a Paley bit, a Landy bit, a Waronker bit, a Titleman bit or what.
Where's AGD when we need him ! :o Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: Chris Brown on July 01, 2009, 02:33:55 PM Its forced but I like it anyway. That's my feeling too. Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: Amy B. on July 01, 2009, 02:59:54 PM Whoever is responsible for it, I love it. It has some beautiful sections to it.
Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: the captain on July 01, 2009, 03:14:27 PM Well, personally
As a whole, I find it overwrought. But I am very fond of segments in it, e.g. the 'Night Blooming Jasmine' thing, the 'campfire/mandolin' wordless chant, and esp. the 'surf waltz' section, 'She's Waiting For Me On The Other Side'. That last one should have been a song onto itself, Brians sounds so comfortable: 'Who-oh-oh-oh-oh-yay-yay-yay...'. That's what I think about it, anyway. Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: James Hughes-Clarke on July 01, 2009, 03:37:59 PM ...I'd like to know what you think about this one. I think that it's too self-conscious, as if Brian (perhaps guided by Landy) thought: 'I must do something big, like Cabinessence, to prove that I still 'got it''. As a whole, I find it overwrought. But I am very fond of segments in it, e.g. the 'Night Blooming Jasmine' thing, the 'campfire/mandolin' wordless chant, and esp. the 'surf waltz' section, 'She's Waiting For Me On The Other Side'. That last one should have been a song onto itself, Brians sounds so comfortable: 'Who-oh-oh-oh-oh-yay-yay-yay...'. What about you? It was Lenny Waronker's idea, but it's pretty good IMO. I remember thinking, "We would never have expected THIS out of Brian just a few years ago". In which case, hats off to Mr Waronker for prompting Brian to make the best music he'd done for......15 years? Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: The Shift on July 01, 2009, 03:40:37 PM Agreed... I would love a whole album like that - and I guess we got that twice, though with differing themes, with BWPS and TLOS. Rio Grande did it well.
Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: Shane on July 01, 2009, 04:41:14 PM Check out the CD reissue of the album that has the bonus tracks. The tracking sessions for this tune are quite fascinating... I felt like I was listening to some of the Smile sessions.
Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: onkster on July 01, 2009, 05:08:59 PM This really needs to be performed live with Brian's band. (Maybe along with the rest of that whole album!) (And a 'finished' version of Can't Wait Too Long!)
How great would THAT be? Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: mtaber on July 01, 2009, 06:59:13 PM I remember making phone calls to Derek Bill back when Brian was in really bad shape, asking for updates on his condition and fearing the worst -was that '80, '81? We thought it was a matter of weeks before he would be gone. I sort of dropped out of the Brian picture for a few years after that, paying only a little attention. Then his solo album came out and I bought it right away, nervously put on headphones and let it play. When I got to "Rio Grande", I started crying. I couldn't believe he sounded so good.
Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: Mr. Cohen on July 01, 2009, 07:06:06 PM Quote The tracking sessions for this tune are quite fascinating... I felt like I was listening to some of the Smile sessions. I know. The parts specifically demoed for the "Rio Grande" suite really are quite amazing (I think Brian calls them "pt. 1" & "pt. 2"). Everything else after that sounds shoehorned in, older demos that they thought could fit the concept. In this way, it reminds me a lot of how Brian might have originally structured "H&V". You have the main song, and then a bunch of sections crammed together, all followed by a reprise (imagine the alternate "H&V" with "Barnyard", "I'm in Great Shape", "Old Master Painter", and "Workshop" crammed together after it, followed by a reprise). Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: Alex on July 01, 2009, 08:35:53 PM Quote The tracking sessions for this tune are quite fascinating... I felt like I was listening to some of the Smile sessions. I know. The parts specifically demoed for the "Rio Grande" suite really are quite amazing (I think Brian calls them "pt. 1" & "pt. 2"). Everything else after that sounds shoehorned in, older demos that they thought could fit the concept. In this way, it reminds me a lot of how Brian might have originally structured "H&V". You have the main song, and then a bunch of sections crammed together, all followed by a reprise (imagine the alternate "H&V" with "Barnyard", "I'm in Great Shape", "Old Master Painter", and "Workshop" crammed together after it, followed by a reprise). Sounds like an idea for a new SMiLE mix! Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: phirnis on July 02, 2009, 11:25:54 PM I really enjoy it, to me it's one of the definite high points of BW's solo career, although I certainly have to agree it does sound contrieved. While of course I can hear some of the similarities to the Smile music and themes, it clearly lacks most of Smile's apparent effortlessness, making it sound almost as forced as your average prog rock suite at times.
Still, its overall wit and catchiness is a powerful reminder you're actually listening to Brian Wilson's first solo record. It's amazing if you just think about his contributions to KTSA and BB85 - who would've expected a song like this after that? It's kind of weird, by the way, that BW88 would include both Night Time and Rio Grande - that's quite a contrast, isn't it? Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: Jason on July 03, 2009, 12:02:40 AM Rio Grande is breathtaking. I'm more willing to be lenient on Brian considering he was still in "bounce back" mode, and if that meant he had to be prodded a bit, then so be it. The entire Brian Wilson album is a small triumph for the man in the 1980s - on par with many of his 70s Beach Boys contributions, though more consistent overall. The first ten tracks on the album, despite the number of cooks in the kitchen, flow effortlessly.
I remember back in, I believe, October of 2001, in the WAY early days of my fandom, for a couple days on the way to school I brought my newly purchased CD of the Rhino reissue with me on the bus rides to and from school. It was one of the great experiences of my life to hear THIS Brian - a Brian not impeded in any way by the Beach Boys. To me at the time, it was liberating to hear this music. It sounded fresh, insistent, and above all, revelatory. Of course it was my general naivety as a fan at the time - little exposure to the bullshit around the band and an appreciation for what the band was able to put out. Eight years, thousands of bootlegs and too much information I probably shouldn't know has clouded a lot of this for me, but the Brian Wilson LP stands tall as probably Brian's last great effort. Rio Grande was an event then for me, and still is now. Sure, computers allowed it to happen better than the Smile music could have at the time, but it's a great amalgam of ideas and emotions wrapped up into a production. It's still amazing to hear, and would be a great thing for Brian to perform live. Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: The Heartical Don on July 03, 2009, 12:23:04 AM Rio Grande is breathtaking. I'm more willing to be lenient on Brian considering he was still in "bounce back" mode, and if that meant he had to be prodded a bit, then so be it. The entire Brian Wilson album is a small triumph for the man in the 1980s - on par with many of his 70s Beach Boys contributions, though more consistent overall. The first ten tracks on the album, despite the number of cooks in the kitchen, flow effortlessly. I remember back in, I believe, October of 2001, in the WAY early days of my fandom, for a couple days on the way to school I brought my newly purchased CD of the Rhino reissue with me on the bus rides to and from school. It was one of the great experiences of my life to hear THIS Brian - a Brian not impeded in any way by the Beach Boys. To me at the time, it was liberating to hear this music. It sounded fresh, insistent, and above all, revelatory. Of course it was my general naivety as a fan at the time - little exposure to the bullmerda around the band and an appreciation for what the band was able to put out. Eight years, thousands of bootlegs and too much information I probably shouldn't know has clouded a lot of this for me, but the Brian Wilson LP stands tall as probably Brian's last great effort. Rio Grande was an event then for me, and still is now. Sure, computers allowed it to happen better than the Smile music could have at the time, but it's a great amalgam of ideas and emotions wrapped up into a production. It's still amazing to hear, and would be a great thing for Brian to perform live. Um, if it is not too much trouble, can you provide a list of those 'thousands of bootlegs', records I am sure you don't possess? Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: The Shift on July 03, 2009, 01:25:26 AM Quote The tracking sessions for this tune are quite fascinating... I felt like I was listening to some of the Smile sessions. I know. The parts specifically demoed for the "Rio Grande" suite really are quite amazing (I think Brian calls them "pt. 1" & "pt. 2"). Everything else after that sounds shoehorned in, older demos that they thought could fit the concept. In this way, it reminds me a lot of how Brian might have originally structured "H&V". You have the main song, and then a bunch of sections crammed together, all followed by a reprise (imagine the alternate "H&V" with "Barnyard", "I'm in Great Shape", "Old Master Painter", and "Workshop" crammed together after it, followed by a reprise). Sounds like an idea for a new SMiLE mix! Sounds like TLOS! Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: MBE on July 03, 2009, 02:12:26 AM Rio Grande is breathtaking. I'm more willing to be lenient on Brian considering he was still in "bounce back" mode, and if that meant he had to be prodded a bit, then so be it. The entire Brian Wilson album is a small triumph for the man in the 1980s - on par with many of his 70s Beach Boys contributions, though more consistent overall. The first ten tracks on the album, despite the number of cooks in the kitchen, flow effortlessly. Some good comments here. I think Brian's 1988 album is above average, but I like the production on his records better now. Still at the time these were Brian's best sessions since Adult Child, and it was a (mostly) creative LP at a time when the Beach Boys were really going downhill on record (their 1988 summer tour was unusually good for the period). I became a fan around this time, and it was the first new music I bought from Brian or the group. Landy tarnishes some of it for me, but it's a lot better then anything else (released) until BWPS.I remember back in, I believe, October of 2001, in the WAY early days of my fandom, for a couple days on the way to school I brought my newly purchased CD of the Rhino reissue with me on the bus rides to and from school. It was one of the great experiences of my life to hear THIS Brian - a Brian not impeded in any way by the Beach Boys. To me at the time, it was liberating to hear this music. It sounded fresh, insistent, and above all, revelatory. Of course it was my general naivety as a fan at the time - little exposure to the bullmerda around the band and an appreciation for what the band was able to put out. Eight years, thousands of bootlegs and too much information I probably shouldn't know has clouded a lot of this for me, but the Brian Wilson LP stands tall as probably Brian's last great effort. Rio Grande was an event then for me, and still is now. Sure, computers allowed it to happen better than the Smile music could have at the time, but it's a great amalgam of ideas and emotions wrapped up into a production. It's still amazing to hear, and would be a great thing for Brian to perform live. Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: matt-zeus on July 03, 2009, 05:37:56 AM I've always thought (and stated this before) that BW88 and Sweet Insanity and all the extra outtakes from this period add up to a really great body of work. Sure the production is dated in places but the 80s production suited Brian much better than a lot of his contemporaries in my opinion. I know Landy had a hand in it but so did he in some of the late 70s stuff too and so did others before, the bottom line is there's some great tunes there.
I've always enjoyed Rio Grande, and often find myself humming it just as much as any other Brian song. One of my friends describes the intro of Rio Grande as 'The sound of madness'. Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: derekbill on July 10, 2009, 01:33:14 PM I remember making phone calls to Derek Bill back when Brian was in really bad shape, asking for updates on his condition and fearing the worst -was that '80, '81? We thought it was a matter of weeks before he would be gone. I sort of dropped out of the Brian picture for a few years after that, paying only a little attention. Then his solo album came out and I bought it right away, nervously put on headphones and let it play. When I got to "Rio Grande", I started crying. I couldn't believe he sounded so good. I believe it was a year or two earlier than that, Martin, but I remember that as well. BTW, are you still really, really tall? Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: TdHabib on July 10, 2009, 09:02:27 PM Rio Grande is breathtaking. I'm more willing to be lenient on Brian considering he was still in "bounce back" mode, and if that meant he had to be prodded a bit, then so be it. The entire Brian Wilson album is a small triumph for the man in the 1980s - on par with many of his 70s Beach Boys contributions, though more consistent overall. The first ten tracks on the album, despite the number of cooks in the kitchen, flow effortlessly. Some good comments here. I think Brian's 1988 album is above average, but I like the production on his records better now. Still at the time these were Brian's best sessions since Adult Child, and it was a (mostly) creative LP at a time when the Beach Boys were really going downhill on record (their 1988 summer tour was unusually good for the period). I became a fan around this time, and it was the first new music I bought from Brian or the group. Landy tarnishes some of it for me, but it's a lot better then anything else (released) until BWPS.I remember back in, I believe, October of 2001, in the WAY early days of my fandom, for a couple days on the way to school I brought my newly purchased CD of the Rhino reissue with me on the bus rides to and from school. It was one of the great experiences of my life to hear THIS Brian - a Brian not impeded in any way by the Beach Boys. To me at the time, it was liberating to hear this music. It sounded fresh, insistent, and above all, revelatory. Of course it was my general naivety as a fan at the time - little exposure to the bullmerda around the band and an appreciation for what the band was able to put out. Eight years, thousands of bootlegs and too much information I probably shouldn't know has clouded a lot of this for me, but the Brian Wilson LP stands tall as probably Brian's last great effort. Rio Grande was an event then for me, and still is now. Sure, computers allowed it to happen better than the Smile music could have at the time, but it's a great amalgam of ideas and emotions wrapped up into a production. It's still amazing to hear, and would be a great thing for Brian to perform live. One thought about the production. It's the drums that ruin it for me. In particular I heard the backing track to "Love and Mercy" recently and it's basically an update of the Love You style of production, or even something like "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling" "Had to Pohne Ya" style of synths and stacks with the BOOMING drums that I can't stand. The vocals, in particular the harmony stacks on things like "Melt Away" or "Let it Shine," the latter probably the best vocal he cut in the eighties, are good. A bit whiny here and there but in the case of "There's so Many" they rescue what is really a slightly mediocre song... Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: mtaber on July 11, 2009, 05:23:26 AM Derek- nice to hear from you! Yes, I am still amazingly tall... how tall are you these days? I'm still working on the next issue of "Celebrate the Newsletter", should be out posthumously...
Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: schiaffino on December 24, 2011, 11:33:16 PM Although I'm pretty new to posting, I've been following the board for over a year now and that's why I've this tendency to write stuff on older posts...
I've been trying to find Rio Grande on YouTube but I can't find it. Does so someone know where can I find it? My other alternative is to get BW88...but I don't know yet of its worth it or not. Mmm. Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 24, 2011, 11:57:53 PM Get BW88. Despite the dated production, it has good songs...
Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: Outtasight! on December 25, 2011, 03:18:01 AM For me Rio Grande is one of the hghlights of Brians career. It has everything I could hope for from a Brian Wilson song cycle. BW88 was the first BW/BB's album I ever bought. I was 17 when it came out and truthfully it took me a while to appreciate much of it, however once I "got it" it led me to the rest of his output and many many many years of rewarding listening. Although some songs suffer from the production (Love and Mercy) the album is superb and Rio Grande is the best closing track(s) I could wish for. Beautiful.
Title: Re: Rio Grande Post by: Mark H. on December 25, 2011, 08:23:39 AM Rio Grande is a beautiful thing. Love and Mercy along with Melt Away are as good as any songs in the cannon. That Brian could make music that good in the midst the the ensuing Landy debacle demonstrates the man's incomparable talent.
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