The Smiley Smile Message Board

...I just love it. Had Mike just been a bit less nasal, or had Carl sung it, it would have been a classic for me.

Howzabout youse?

I find it quite horrid actually, the eerie saxes at the beginning followed by Mikes creepy vocal and then the worse bit of all when the rest of the band come in - the rhythm is all clunky and lethargic and the boys sort of moan over it. Actually it's not that bad, in a perverse sort of way it's enjoyable, but only for the sheer unmusicality of it.

Glad someone likes it though!

I'm with Matt on this one.  It has sort of a train wreck appeal, I think it is one of the worst covers from that time.

I kind of like it. It would've been better if it they actually committed to building the track up rather than 'quiet verse - screw it, just bring the entire band in'.... Definitely car--crash material.

Now Chapel Of love - THAT'S a cover!   ;D

I felt the same way as matt originally, but Ive come to think that, ot her htan the vocal, its really well produced.

 Brian was producing a lot of stuff at the time with the clunky rhythm. I like the way the guitars and the saxes sort of merge into one golden shimmering wall on that track.

I've really warmed up to 15 Big Ones throughout the last two years or so, and this song is one of the main reasons. Brian's voice sounds rough but very spirited and the production is really clever. It's as good a Spector cover as he ever did.

Love Blueberry Hill, love Talk to Me, love Just Once in my Life... not much for Chapel, hate In the Still of the Night...

I've never been sold on Mike as lead singer on "Blueberry Hill"; his voice wasn't deep enough a la Fats. I would've liked to have heard Brian give it a shot, even in his raspy state.

That has to be the best vocal on the album, although i'm not wild about the other song shoehorned in the middle. Carl didn't like the oldies angle, is that why he has so few leads? He suits these songs better than Mike, imo.

Re Chapel of love, is it just me or does the melody crop up in 'Love To Say Dada'? on the clarinets? Seems like such an unlikely steal...

I LOVE Blueberry Hill... also the instr version that's been floating around. I can overlay the PERFECT vocal on that while I'm driving, or while I'm in the bath...!  ;D

For all 15BOs marked a different direction for the band musically – one which many of us would agree lacked the integrity and class of the progressive stuff found on Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions and Holland – there's some great stuff on there. That Same Song, Just Once In My Life, Had To Phone Ya ( I used the "Come on, come on and answer the phone, come on come on,... " etc on my answering machine for a long time...), Talk to Me, Back Home (the best version of all those I've heard that they'd recorded in the previous 14 years), Susie Cincinatti  ... all really good fun.

The only tracks I'd purge from that album might be TM Song and and Everyone's In Love With You.  Maybe R&R Music due to over-familiarity!

I like TM Song. Once I got past the topic, I noticed a sweet, lovely melody, and many nice touches. Perhaps a bit Wilson/Paley like ('Saturday Morning'). Would not have been out of place on Friends (consider: Busy Doing Nothing).

Yeah, I'm shocked by how many BB songs people here dislike for lyrical reasons. To me, the music of Brian Wilson steals the show, the lyrics aren't that important (and let's face it, most of the BBs lyrics are corny). Like "Hey Little Tomboy". That song is catchy as heck! I can't believe that there are people who would rank "Kona Coast" or whatever dreck over that song. And I think the lecherous lyrics work in a way, kind of mocking how people wanted the BBs to have that old "fun in the sun, never-ending summer vacation" sound at the time when they were really 30-something year old men with failing marriages, substance abuse problems, and etc. I personally think a lot of Love You is tongue in check. Actually, the vibe of Love You reminds me a lot of Iggy Pop and David Bowie's The Idiot, from the ironic happiness to the farting synthesizers. Both came out in '77, and Iggy Pop and Brian Wilson were both thoroughly burned out by that time.

And as for "TM Song", yeah, it's good. BB fans have this strange aversion to all songs that involve TM, I think because music critics decided that it wasn't hip after the Beatles abandoned it (I would honestly like to know what makes the song "Transcendental Meditation" so bad besides the lyrics). BB fans like to build up this myth that BBs were somehow hip. I don't buy it (except maybe Dennis, and Carl for a short time in the early 70s), but I don't think that it's a bad thing. Personally, I love that after SMiLE Brian wasn't afraid to be anachronistic or iconoclastic. I'd rather have the silliness of Love You over the political posturing Lennon did in the 70s or the commercial pap McCartney produced (to bring up what happened to Brian's 60s rivals in the 70s).

Lovely post, well thought out, cheers! Esp. the terms anachronistic and iconoclastic are nice. More and more I tend to think that 'Love You' is simply the true punk album of the '70s. Why? Well, the punk aesthetic always was said to be: do it yourself, be yourself, keep it simple, don't mind what others think, just DO it. Well, in hindsight I find many, many punk albums terribly conservative, following rules, samey, predictable, even unlistenable. And what else is 'Never Mind The Bollocks' than simple and quite boring and badly played heavy metal? Punk/new wave only was interesting when the artists really looked for outside inspiration (to wit: PiL's second album, and Pere Ubu).

See: Love You almost effortless fulfills the original punk criteria. That it doesn't sound like an average punk album is only to its benefit.

Man, I couldn't disagree more. I really can't stand ANY of Carl's pilled-out vocals from this time period. Always sound like he's about to pass out! Blueberry Hill sounds great but needs Dennis or BW to lead it.

And while I'm downplaying the importance of lyrics in BB songs, I'm going to throw a dart at all of the Mike Love supporters that have been waving their Mike Love Not War flags lately. Some people would have you believe (fallaciously) that Mike's lyrics and general 'tude were critical to the early BBs success. I say that whoever wrote lyrics for The Surfaris or The Rivieras could've done just as well as Love. Look up their lyrics and tell me, honestly tell me, that there's a notable difference. He was disposable. Yes, he sang leads on some of the early hits, but that was more because he was more assertive and (unfoundedly) confident as opposed to having a great voice. Brian Wilson was one of Rolling Stones top 100 vocalists of all time, Mike was not.

If any of Mike Love's lyrics seem special or remarkable in any way, it's only because they were riding one of those magically catchy Brian Wilson vocal melodies. Hell, you could probably just talk about vegetables using one of those vocal melodies and it would sound great. And as far as love songs and introspective lyrics go, I think most of would say that Tony Asher did at least as good as a job Mike, and Usher was no slouch either with songs like "In My Room". It's time to make Mike out to be the moneygrubbing joke he is again, before more people are convinced (erroneously) otherwise. OK, he sang well on "All I Wanna Do", but that's it.

I forget who it was, but a Capitol records executive said that when he met Brian in the early/mid 60s, you could just tell that he was meant to be a star, and that he didn't need the group. His talent was limitless. I think the decades of mental illness Brian has suffered from has made it difficult for people to realize just how strong of a figure he was for awhile. He was practically the King of the U.S. music industry for a couple of years (yes, Elvis Presley was the King, but he didn't write or produce his own music, and that made him more of a subject of the music industry, a symbolic King as opposed to a real one).

I totally agree that Mike was disposable. I've said myself before that Dennis should have fronted the group. Denny had the looks and (eventually) a great voice. I'm sure most young girls at the time thought the drummer was a lot "cuter" than the tall balding guy doing all the corny dancing (I swear that Love dances just like my dad does when he's drunk!).

Sorry to spoil the "Love"-fest. ;D

Actually, I was about the only one waving a Mike Love Not War flag recently, but I wasn't saying it was brilliant or anything...sheesh...I just wanted to know who wrote what.

Oh, I wasn't talking his solo album. Just using it as phrase, instead of "peace flags" or whatever.

Gotcha.

Elvis co-produced all his sessions from 1956 on.  Needless to say as a fan of the GROUP I disagreee with the rest of your post as well. To each his own though.

I think 'Still of the night' is great (love the ARP synth toward the end), but I think 'Just once in my life' is the best song on the album, just mind boggling, great synths, great arrangements and production. It's quite a 'big' sounding production which was unusual generally for Brian at that time. Sort of reminds me a bit of 'It's like heaven' which could have been a great BB number.
We all know our stuff here so I don't want to go on about how different and brilliant the Brians Back period could have been but there's so many cool but tossed away songs from this late 70s time that it just kills me. They tried for years to get Brian back into it and then when he got cookin' around late 76 doing all the Adult child/new album/love you stuff a lot of it got rejected. There could have easily been another two 'Love you' type albums for sure.

Agree, Matt. I think while the group was hoping for a great new Beach Boys album from Brian, he was sneaking in his Phil Spector rock and roll album. I find that period (1976-1981) the most fascinating of Brian's career. Whatever "it" is, Brian still had "it". Some of that arranging and producing was/is mind boggling, you know, those moments when you say to yourself, "How did he do that?" I don't blame Brian for the poor vocals on 15 Big Ones and Love You. You could've hired Spector himself and even he couldn't have overcome the effects of the cocaine.

Edit: Oh yeah, "It's Like Heaven". Love it! When did Brian write it? Was it during the MIU sessions?

A bit off track, but I have always wondered about "Talk to Me".  On the Spring version of "Good Time", there's the line "Hey, baby, turn up the radio- the DJ just said he's playin' our favorite song, talk to me"... I always figured that maybe "Talk to Me" was a special song to Brian and Marilyn and that he referenced it in "Good Time".  Anyone else ever shared my thought?

Yeah. Everytime I listen to Spring's "Good Time" and hear that reference, I think of "Talk To Me". After Spring, 15 Big Ones was the next album that Brian produced, and Marilyn is all over it.

Back to "Blueberry Hill" - the intro (Steve Douglas, correct?) is absolutely tremendous...

The thing I like best about BH is that Brian didn't just do a straight cover, he made it his own... I think an all-oldies album could've worked if he took the same approach with other oldies...

One song I always wished he would've covered is "Saturday Night at the Movies" by the Drifters...

The sax on this album.  That's how to do it.  Not like that synthetic sounding crap on California Dreamin' and Kokomo.

Roy. Wood.

When used as a rhythm instrument sax is great - think of the great rock'n'roll songs, Little Richard etc... Also when doing low chords with several of them (Steely Dan do this quite a bit) or at least having them play lower notes it can sound good. If you get any of that horrible Kenny G sh*t then that's up there with the worst musical crimes imaginable (along with fretless or slap bass and plugged in acoustic guitars), I think of Bill Clinton and his sax crimes....

... did not play sax on 15 Big Ones, despite what the liners notes might say. Drums. Saxes on "It's OK" are Nick Pentelow & Mike Burney.

Good point about Brian "making it his own"; I appreciated that, too. Brian was very creative in 1976. There were a lot of ideas flowing.

To some extent, I do think Brian took that similar approach to the rest of the oldies, or most of them. "Chapel Of Love" is very different from the original(s). It was already mentioned how "Talk To Me" was unique with "Talahassee Lassie" spliced in there, a slower version of "TL" than Freddie Cannon's. "Palisades Park", also being slowed down incorporated with BB harmonies, gives a different feel than the original. And, oddly enough, "Just Once In My Life" has more of a "wall of sound" than Spector's version!

Two that didn't make the cut, "Sea Cruise" and "Mony Mony" are also a bit of a departure from the original versions.

Though "Chapel of Love" wasn't a copy of the "hit version", wasn't it a copy of Spector's version?

Marty you are right it is a clone of Spectors which by the way is far better in this case.

On further listening, you guys are right. I just thought Brian's version was a lot more stripped, but I do hear a lot of similarities. Anybody surprised that, of all of the Spector tunes, Brian chose "Chapel Of Love" to cover?

I think Brian figured he could kill two birds with one stone.  Cover a "hit" while also doing a Spector song not normally associated with Phil.

That's my take on it too.

I would have liked it a lot more had Brian cut it a few years earlier though. I can put up with the lead as he stays on key, but his back up vocals are painful.

Well, I guess I'll use this topic to also proclaim my love of the farting synthesizer bass. It's a really unique sound, it's like a fuzz bass, but with a more robotic sound. I always thought it had pixel-like sound, like an 80s video game, as opposed to the smooth, rounded sound I feel a bass usually has. It gives the music a very cartoony vibe, which I thought fit the childishness of the lyrics very well. And I don't think that Love You's arrangements are simplistic or lazy like some people do. They're quite layered harmonically, even if the parts are simplistic if isolated individually ("I'll Bet He's Nice" is just crazy). Brian even uses the drums similarly to how he did on Pet Sounds! Love You is to Brian's music what Switched on Bach is to Bach's music. The music is broken down to its essential parts, usually with the precision of electronic sound, without any superfluous orchestration. This is how Brian does 'rock music'. It's obvious that he hates (or, maybe, to use a softer word, merely dislikes) using the level of guitar distortion typically associated with rock music, as well as the crashing cymbals and etc. He'd rather use a smooth organ, a drum machine or a synthesizer to fill out the sound, at least in 1976 and 1977.

Oh yeah, speaking of 1976 Phil Spector tributes, how about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcrafHxuONQ (kills most of the covers on 15 Big Ones)

Lovely call. I completely agree. I also am fond of the synth bass. Whilst a normal bass, or a fretless, or a standup all are more organic, the synth has that peculiar drive. I don't find 'Love You''s sound outdated at all, by the way.

It's good to hear that again. Brian really seemed to enjoy producing some of that 1976-77 stuff; you can almost hear it in the music, even in some of his vocals.

Also, agree with your observation regarding Brian's arrangements circa 1976-77. He still had that talent intact, and that was his great gift, wasn't it. I STILL have to shake my head at some of the Love You material. And the 15 Big Ones backing tracks.

That has long been my favorite of the 1976 Brian vocals. I guess I am not a huge Love You fan because I see what he could do when he was trying like here. That doesn't apply to every song of course but so many of those vocals were just thrown out. The production for that period is unqiue but I like his previous clean(early) or minamalist (most if not all mid period) sound better.

Yeah, MBE, Brian seemed to just throw out a vocal and didn't seem interested in having it be his best shot (during 15 Big Ones and Love You).  But for YLTLF, he nailed it. 

Well I always thought of Brian's 1976 songs and productions as being purely instinctual; he was being forced initially to do it but he ended up enjoying himself (I'd say mid-15 Big Ones) and did exactly what he wanted to do.

"I wish I had written “You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feeling.” It was such a great record; nobody could believe it. I think what makes that song is the background track, the chord pattern, the melody, the lyrics and The Righteous Brothers’ voices. I liked Bill Medley better than Bobby Hatfield. His voice had a good sound to it. I did a version of “You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feeling” with The Beach Boys, but we never released it. I did it all by myself. I did the track, the piano…all the instruments and voices all by myself."

-Brian Wilson
http://www.americansongwriter.com/2009/01/brian-wilson-gods-messenger/

Thanks for the link, variable 2. After all of these years, Brian's love for Spector's work is still obvious. If Brian wasn't expected to produce "hit" albums, I wonder how close he would've come to doing a complete Phil Spector cover album.

I think he did end up enjoying recording by the middle of 1976 but one thing that sticks out in my mind is an interview (with Earle Mankey I think) that talked about how Brian would rush his mixes and vocals. In other words he was somewhat inspired and happy to work, but didn't have the ability or patience to give the material a professional follow through. Which may indeed be exactly what he wanted to do. My view is that YLTLF is one he did stick with and give the very best he could with his now somewhat more restricted vocal skills. His mix is clean, and he is really singing his heart out. I can pick out a handful of other songs I think he gave his all too (the Dick Reynolds sessions for example) but several of his best late 70's recordings (It's OK and Good Timin') were started in 1974 when he was still really putting polish on the records. I mean that dirty "Hard Times' ditty from 1974 has a more complex and accomplished arrangement then almost anything he did afterwords and that says something to me.

To be fair if we are talking purely about his production on his last four solo albums, it has been great. Of course how much he did himself is open to valid debate. BWPS and TLOS are the best he can do today and that's good enough for me. Of course GIOMH and WIRWFC we have problems with vocals and some of the songs themselves. I think Brian was fairly flawless pre "15 Big Ones" but since I think his work has been up and down. Sticking to 1976-77 I think some of his very best songs and very worst songs were cut then. Frankly I never thought he would come back to the point he did in the last ten years. As disturbing as some of the backstage stories may be, as much as his involvement may be overplayed, he has delivered (if increasingly less not counting TLOS) at a level I never thought I would hear again.

Really? What about "TM Song" and "Had to Phone Ya" off 15 Big Ones, for example? And I think sometimes that the farting synths (which tend to play simplistic but catchy parts) on Love You distract people from all the things going on in some of those songs. How about "Roller Skating Child"? Talk about a 'WTF' arrangement. That's not to say some of the songs aren't simple, but I think you're selling him short.

Brian was always infamous for rushing mixes. Engineers couldn't believe that he'd use 20+ takes to get perfection from the Wrecking Crew, only to spend almost no time mixing it. He always wanted to move on to the next big thing (which is why I don't know why he didn't just let other people mix it). Brian Wilson gets held to a very high standard. A lot of Brian songs and arrangements that get called "minimalist" would be normal or complex for most bands. A song with bass, guitar, drum, and organ parts with four freshman vocal arrangements gets called "Brian not trying" by fans. I wish I could do that when I try!

Oh yeah, and speaking of 15 Big Ones, looking at that terrible cover made me think of some alternates. One would have a photo of Brian with an unbuttoned shirt on as the cover with the phrase "Cover Songs" in white on the front in the upper left hand corner, with the the cover songs listed below it and the title 15 Big Ones in the bottom right corner. The back would have a picture of Brian's back turned to the camera with the phrase "Brian's Back" with all of the new songs listed below it and the phrase "Back Catalog" for "Good Time". My other idea was to have a huge cake with 15 candles on the cover, with Brian breaking out of top of the cake like one of those 'show girls' on the back, preferably with no shirt on. Could someone let me design Brians album art from now, please?   

YLTLF??

Hint: they weren't real brothers.

that's one righteous clue there don........

 :) ...as Van Dyke Parks noted, in a Dutch after-show get-together: 'First Righteousness, And Then Thirst'...

I still wonder why the band didn't choose the original Spector /Darlene Love Version of Chapel of Love (to be heard on the Spector boxset).   A far superior version.  A tougher less cheerleadery version that one can STROLL through.  These characters were smoking cigarettes rather than sucking on a lollipop!