The Smiley Smile Message Board

Again, I read this in the book Catch A Wave,  Carlin uses Steve Desper as a source.  It sounds like Desper just infers from over heard conversations that BW went to an institution for awhile. I hadn't heard of this detail before.  Any other sources to shed light on this story?  Anybody know anything about it?

I've heard the same, from other, equally trustworthy sources.

I don't know if there was a specific inciident as to why he went. Around when Sea Of Tunes was sold was when Mike had to go in.

Wasn't the story that he was administered Thorazine at that time, and the writing of I Went to Sleep was possibly influenced by the forced tranquility that he experienced while under the influence of that drug? ^-^ :(

Don't know about mental doctoring, but according to an 1968 article in 'Eye Magazine', Brian had an operation on his almost dead ear around November 1967 after the 'Wild Honey' sessions. The modern medicine made it possible, a successful operation was performed. In 1968, Brian was still recovering and hoping to enjoy the Stereo-wonder soon.

Where did you hear that one?

I have never heard that one before!  I guess the effects of the operation didn't last, as he still is almost deaf in the one ear.

The ear operation is also mentioned by Carl in an interview for Beat Instrumental that he did in Dec 1967 while in England

Peter Reum has also reported Brian had a mental breakdown in 1968 and was hospitalized.

So this is looking to me like a legit event with some real sources.  I think I will treat it as such in my essay.  I can see this as something the Beach Boys wanted to keep under raps for public image reasons, which may explain the scant details available. 

Thanks to all for info.

Reportedly, it was of his own accord.

As Friends brings back good memories for Brian, and Al Jardine has called it a good period for Brian as well I still wonder what happened that year. As I mentioned the early 1968 interview I found with Brian has him in fine shape. Verty relaxed, friendly, and upbeat. I can only think of two things that may have set him off. One the Old Man River argument, or two having a child scared him. I do remember a Marilyn quote where she says after having Carnie is when she first noticed something wrong. She remembered him crying. Then again I heard stories (and seen home movies) where Brian is playing with her happily and I think we all heard the one about him crawling into her crib to nap with her.So I just cannot put my finger on what happened. As Catch A Wave makes note of he couldn't have been there too long as he was recording pretty freuqently.

My guess was that it was towards the end of the year, judging on the events - Friends had bombed, which definitely stung, having a child is tres stressful, and he was barely present for assembling 20/20, which was happening then (but i don't know for sure. I'm going on the facts like they used cabinessence, prayer, time to get alone - stuff that was basically finished and Carl knew how to complete). Sea of Tunes must have hurt too. As did Ol' Man River, like MBE said. Such a dramatic swing, though - He was writing some of the calmest songs known to man at that time....


That makes it stranger....

Please remind me of these old man river arguments...they sound interesting, but I don't remember ever hearing of 'em.

It was simply that Brian kept wanting to record it over and over and Mike eventually got fed up with it.

As far as them using old stuff, Brian did miss some 20/20 sessions (perhaps while he was ill) but I think had a hand in finishing his songs on side 2. Maybe not a major hand but he approved what was going out and particpated to some extent, singing what have you.

Actually the SOT sale happened in late 1969 and seemed to trigger off a bigger breakdown in Mike. Granted Brian stayed in his room for a few days but he was actively recording and writing during that period.

I was told it was summer. Going on the available session info, July or August - from June 28 to September 3, there's only the "CWTL" sessions of late July.

And the thing that we have to remember is, Brian was never, at any point 'fine' during this period. Remember, during SMiLE he thought his music started fires and there were mind gangsters messing with him-not to mention he thought Jules' chick was a witch with ESP who was screwing around with his mind. Those things alone warrant some serious psychiatiric analysis.

Knowing he has mental issues, good shape for Brian Wilson was relative even in 1963.
If he was going through a bad period (end of Smile) I'm sure he came off very odd. If he was having a good period (Friends, a decent part of 1970) I bet he seemed fairly normal at least by rock star standards. I look at Brian in say 1978 and say he was very sick, but in 1968 there was an element of togetherness or a normalicy in how he was able to interact with others. Looking at the big picture I think we lost the original Brian for good slowly between 1973 and 1983.

In 1968 obviously he had an incident that made him feel like he couldn't deal with life.  What is hard to figure out is what exactly happened. Perhaps his 1968 stay helped him for a time because between the fall of 1968 and the fall of 1970 he was pretty darn active. We have Honeys sessions, finishing work on 20/20. "Break Away", the prolonged "Sunflower" sessions during which he produced well over a full album of work,  Fred Vail album, Kalinich poetry album, 1970 tour to cover for Mike, 1970 jam with Flame at an L.A. club, early work on the Surf's Up sessions, and finally the Whisky gig. This wasn't like later where he was forced on stage either, photos show him to be getting into the music and having fun.

Sources in my head tell me that Brian was in the same cell as Syd Barret. The result was Olivia Tremor Control.

I heard that Carl got fed up of recording the song over and over again.

As Friends was failing in the marketplace the Beach Boys lost loads of money over a cancelled tour with the Maharishi, and Brian was quoted as saying the Beach Boys were broke, which Carl took exception to . . . the financial pressures and intergroup squabbling may have prompted the breakdown.

Two words: voyage 34.

Amphetamine and predisposition to schizophrenia.  A winning combination.  That is if you want to win a trip to the psychiatric hospital.

Mental Institution is so 19th century!    We now say psychiatric hospital.  Or rehabilitation program.

I don't remember exactly where I heard the detail about the Thorazine, but do remember that
it was form some seemingly authoritative print source. The part about the influence on the song is very hazy, almost to the point that I think senility has finally set in, I may have never actually heard that anywhere and shouldn't have posted it. I hate it when that happens! :P

someone is quoted as saying that Brian was never the same after they gave him thorazine.

i wonder if there was any electroshock as well, which was still fairly common at the time i believe?

Or we just call it the loony bin.

Now, this is what puzzles me. Everybody in the Endless Summer documentary described Brian as being very "fragile", mentally speaking, almost as soon as Smile ended. The same thing with all the Beach Boys books. The Catch A Wave book paints a picture of Brian being in a very dark place starting around the end of Smile. But as you just posted above, the real story was very different. Brian wasn't nearly as "fragmented" as we're all meant to think. It's not like everything you mentioned above were just rumors. There is a lot of documented proof of Brian basically being the old Brian from 1968-71-ish.

Exactly. Let's put it this way if the Beach Boys and Brian's records sold in 67-70 what they did in 63-66 people would look at Brian a lot differently. Funny the only place they got Brian right from 68-73 or so was a Carnie Wilson documentary. It showed his decline but rightly dated the big downturn when Carnie was about five. 

Btw, how's it going with your book, MBE?

Well I had to take a few months off because I free lance and when I get a paying assignment of course I have to take it. I am planing on going back to it next week. The final draft is about 60 percent done. I have everything except TLOS and the Dennis POB reissue written in rough form, but it's still going to take me some time because I am a perfectionist and I work completely alone on it. I am my own editor, proof reader etc. which is good and bad. I promise it will be worth the wait. The last thing I finished was my review of "It's A Beautiful Day" so I am on the later stuff. The main Beach Boys LP and 45 section should be done in two to three months. Then I have to do the final draft on  the vinyl comps, V.A. LP's, solo releases, and vinyl boots. These appendixes don't have much biographical stuff because that's covered by the main text. There is a little background on the solo stuff of course, but mostly it's just reviews in that part. I also have a discography and bibliography to work on.

Well the thing to bear in mind is, the "old" Brian was erratic even before "Smile" fell apart -- Phil Spector's mind gangsters and all.  It sounds possible that he was both visibly and increasingly coming apart at the seams, and still way better off than he would be after 1970...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

That's the point. The moment he stopped going on all the tours in 1963 was the first warning sign-as was the weight he was slowly putting on. Yes sadly as troubled as he was he was better in his twenties then he ever would be after. Why? Because he wasn't a full blown addict yet, he had a pretty decent relationship with the band, and he was married to someone who loved him for him. As drugs took hold all that he had fell apart and his mental illness' grow worse. It's not his "fault" so I hope nobody thinks I am saying that, it was just circumstances. I think the biggest thing Brianasta's miss is that the other Beach Boys did try to help him and their support helped keep him going during the post Smile-pre So Tough period. Nothing is black and white, and there are no heroes or villians. We just have a group of everyday suburban people being put through extraordinary circumstances. I won't deny things between the group got ugly around 1976-77, but before that they managed to acomplish things together that most of us can't even dream about.

I was just wondering about this the other day and stumbled upon this old topic.

Does anyone have any further info on Brian's 1968 breakdown?  I've always just read vague descriptions of there maybe being an "incident" or something and then a stay in a psychiatric hospital.  If you look at the timeline on AGD's site - he doesn't appear to have been gone for very long.  By August 1968 he's producing a poetry LP for Steve Kalinich.

This also poses a deeper question.  Brian's stints with Landy have been discussed a lot.  While Landy's work with Brian remains "controversial" it at least indicates that he was receiving treatment.  It would seem that his early episodes in the 1960's were possibly not treated with the same level of concern?  I'm not saying those around him were not concerned - but was there an element of Brian just being Brian?  If he would have received more thorough treatment early on might he have avoided some of the horrible mental illness he encountered later on?

The guy has a serious breakdown in December of 1964 - yet he's basically back to work by the beginning of 1965.

Well according to an 'insider' who briefly posted here, Brian faked the whole thing.

Really?  I had never heard that.  What would have been his reasoning?

It wasn't true, Lorren Daro was talking out of his ass when he posted as the "insider".

Wasn't it around 1968 when Brian was telling people he wanted to jump out of a window? Or digging a grave in his backyard, or something to that effect?

I thought I once read that Brian said that the "voices" would threaten to kill him and his family.  Wasn't it also around 1968 that he started using cocaine on a regular basis? 

Staying more than a few days in a psychiatric ward is a "very long" time to be staying, from my understanding.

I wonder if it was a breakdown or a panic attack?

That must've been around the time of Surf's Up when Jack Rieley was already working with them.

To your first point - as someone said earlier, it seems it was Carl who got most fed up with it.
To your second point - I don't think Brian had anything to do with finishing off "Our Prayer" or "Cabinessence". It seems he did, however, help with finishing off "Time To Get Alone". Perhaps the difference is that the first two of these were from the SMiLE sessions, which Brian still felt very weird about, while "TTGA" wasn't, and therefore Brian had no problem (or not as much of a problem) working on it. The 20/20 version of "Cotton Fields" was cut by Brian from scratch during the album sessions.

This is from Wikipedia:

Wilson entered a psychiatric hospital for a brief period of time. Biographer Peter Ames Carlin has speculated that Wilson had self-admitted and may have been administered a number of treatments ranging from talking therapies to stiff doses of Lithium and electroconvulsive therapy during this stay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Wilson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Wilson)

That's not Wikipedia that's... Peter Ames Carlin.

It's on the Wikipedia page for Brian Wilson regardless if it's from Carlin's (rather fabulous) bio. My point is that this is what is regarded as "fact" on Wikipedia. That is all.