The Smiley Smile Message Board

I wish they had used "Sound of Free" vice "Lady" in the new collection.  While "Lady" is a very good song, it is pretty mid 60's/old school (the new version is even more 60's sappy); while I've always thought "Sound of Free" was more forward looking, innovative, cool and hip.  A preview of what was to come on Sunflower, Holland and POB)

What's every one else think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMtYIAtXNT0

(not the best sounding conversion of "Sound of Free")

I agree.
I wish they would release a 3CD 40 years Special Edition of Sunflower/Surf's Up with all unreleased or forgotten gems from that period, with "California Slide", "Sound of Free", "Big Sur", "Back Home", "Good Time", "Seasons In The Sun", "Games 2 Can Play", "San Miguel", "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again", "4th Of July" etc.

"Sound of free" is a great song and I hope it will be also re-released soon, but it wouldn't have fit the concept of "Summer love songs", that's why it isn't on there and rightfully so

I'm actually glad that it wasn't used on 'Summer Love Songs." I think it would be the perfect opener for the Dennis Wilson solo compilation. I'd love to hear what John Hanlon could do with the multitracks.

In The Parkin' Lot's a bit tenuous on those grounds, surely?  More of a "summer grope song", really?

Personally, I suspect Sound of Free isn't too far away from a fresh CD release, and suspect that Jon Stebbins might be able to enlighten us, if he's allowed?  I don't know anything, just have a hunch (as Quasimodo might say).


I've also just found a Smiley that apparently incorporates Guinness so I'm going to use it, just because I can.  :beer

sound of Free would have been on Surf's Up if it had been on an album, wouldn't it?

Agree it's a great song and would have been a great side one closer (but then almost anything would have been better than Student Demonstration Time).

I'd be surprised if Jon comments that there is actually something in the works.  No doubt he wants it (who doesn't) but he was pretty tight-lipped about POB/Bambu till he was sure it was going to happen.  This two CD set is tops on my wish list just in front of the Smile box set (because I think just about all of Smile has been booted)

The chronology seems about right but I thought that the only DW tracks that were supposedly left off Surf's Up at the last minute because of an inter-band tracking order dispute (or something like that) were 4th of July and WIBNTLA.

Was SOF ever under serious consideration for inclusion on a BB album?

Not to my knowledge. "SOF" was recorded 13th November 1970, btw, so could have been on Surf's Up... except that it was always a DW solo project.

Thank goodness we at least have the 1981 Rarities LP from downunder!

Agreed -  his discretion was amazing.  Could he discreetly drop a hint?   ;D

Except that the lyrics were written by Mike Love . . . and I think Carl is on backing vocals, isn't he?

Dennis often pulled "solo" session songs for Beach Boys albums, so it's not impossible that it could have ended up on Surf's Up - it SHOULD have - but you're right, it's not on any BB comp tape for Landlocked/Surf's Up, unlike Fallin' in love/Lady (which is even more of a solo project song than Sound of Free). 

Wow, I did not know the Lovester wrote the lyrics.  Good catch there Bicyclerider!

Says right there on the 45 (WIlson-Love)

http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=296950

Yes, and also Brian.

Allegedly - seen it reported, but never confirmed.

Was it typical for Europen 45's to have solid centers, as is the case with Sound of Free / Lady on Stateside?  I had thought they generally had punch out centers so that they could be played on either a standard turntable spindle or be punched out to play on a wide 45 rpm spindle.

Anyone know if Sound of Free / Lady saw any significant sales in the European market in late 1970?  (Both great songs, although Sound of Free had a very tinny EQ and Lady always sounded like an unfinished and not well mixed demo to me.)

The high "Free"s near the end after Carl's "The sound is coming" could be Brian. When I first heard this song on a boot , I detected him in the background, but not so on the link posted above, perhaps that was an alternate mix?

Can only speak for the UK, but all the 45s I saw while growing up had a solid center.

Sam here - I always thought the punch out centers were for jukeboxes (remember them?).

Is anybody surprised at the group's decision to perform "Lady" on The David Frost Show?

The "Lady"/"Sound Of Free" single was released on December 4, 1970; it was performed on The David Frost Show on February 25, 1971, almost three months later. The single was already dead in the waters by then. So why perform/promote it? Of course, we know the group never took Dennis' music seriously and fought to keep his songs off their albums. ::)

Is it possible that it was being considered for the upcoming Surf's Up album, which was being recorded at the time of The David Frost Show?

Lady is on the Landlocked tape, so yes, it was being considered for Surf's Up. 

I've speculated that there was a shift in group dynamics and leadership with Brian's increasing withdrawal from the group.  Dennis was coming into his own as a songwriter and producer, and was far more prolific than Carl.  Brian apparently wanted Carl to take the reins but I suspect Dennis felt he should become the upfront person and be more involved in the album decisions.  Dennis essentially "saved" the Add Some Music LP after it was rejected by Warners, he was still the "sex symbol" and hippest guy in the group.  But then Carl and Dennis had a falling out over the running order of Surf's Up and pulled his songs out to pursue a solo album.

Repeat after me, "there never was any Landlocked tape or album". Steve Desper - the guy who compiled that tape and cut the acetate - told me that it was just a bunch of songs to play on the radio. Not an album... not a potential album. Just current work in progress.

Over here in the states, every 45 I've ever seen has a giant hole in the middle and required a special adapter to be placed on a record player spindle.

Not really, since they also played "Vegetables" and "Lady" was the newest output. Perhaps an US release was in planning?


It was on the "Add Some Music" tape, the rejected Warner-album that became Sunflower.

Yeah, I was gonna mention the "Vegetables" performance; I find that choice equally perplexing. ???

Weren't they getting ready to release SMiLE as well as a new album? These songs would be great singles off of any album so it makes sense to promote them on TV.

When David asks if Lady "is on the new album," I beleive someone answers 'yes.'

They're not terribly good at that sort of thing.... Theres that Mike Douglas footage where they play Breakaway and CTN, and apparently those were supposed to be on the next LP. Either the tracklists were last minute things, or they're just saying it to impress.
I think Grillo's otm concerning Veggies. They were doing Wonderful at gigs too, remember...

Why did they play Good Vibrations on TV in 1980? Sometimes you don't necessarily want to promote a single, you just want people to see you're a cool band.

True, but by that time most people (including themselves?) didn't think they were a relevant band with new ideas, but rather a good-time throwback group. Ten years earlier they were playing new songs on TV, not Surfin', because they were (in their minds) still relevant and dynamic, etc.

Of the two I would pick Sound of Free. Big surprise there, right.  :lol

I like Lady a lot and like most of Dennis' ballads (and LOVE some of them), but I really wish he had done more uptempo songs like Slip on Through, San Miguel, It's a New Day, I'm Going Your Way (California Slide), It's About Time, etc.

To my ears, there's a kind of desperation and forced, doomed euphoria in some of Dennis' "upbeat"songs, particularly Celebrate the News, with its tag "celebrate the news, there ain't no blues" almost like overcoming the "blues" or depression, is a piece
of cake and you can just snap your fingers or through casual affirmations you can beat it.

You know as you listen to it that it's not realistic, it's not that easy, and, because he approaches it as if it was, he is fooling himself and is certain to fail and slide back into despair, drug and alcohol abuse, etc. It's very poignant, and of course with 20/20 hind-
sight it's easier to identify than it would have been at the time. :'(

The optimism expressed in other songs like SOF and Slip on Through is very uplifting,
though. :)

There was a tape of songs being considered for the followup album to Sunflower - that is what I am referring to as the "Landlocked" tape, since that it how it has been booted and referred for many years.  And Desper did say he played the acetate of that tape to Warner's (on this board in fact), so that work tape was presented to the record company to show the Boys' progress on the next album.

Sound of Free is my favorite song by DW.   It's a shame he couldn't have had his solo works put front and center on some BB projects, he was underrated as an emerging artist, and that is a crying shame.

Ed, can you shed any more light on the "mistreatment Brian was subjected to by the group"? We appreciate your recollections....

Ed, we cherich the fact that insiders from then and now take their time to visit us and share their stories with us. So in case it feels like you're "killing the subject": be sure that you're not, we (as Sheriff already mentioned) appreciate these inside-stories a lot.

Ed, I'd just like to add my own appreciation and thanks to you for sharing your insights. And I don't believe you kill any threads - far from it; your time and what you post is deeply valued.

I'm a bit late in replying, but to clear up the UK 45 centre confusion, the timeline runs approximately thus:

1950 - 1959: Triangular push-out centre
1957 - 1969: Circular push-out centre
1967 - current day: Solid centre

All dates are wildly approximate. The issue of 45rpm centres apparently depends on the equipment used to press the records. For example, Pathe in France were pressing 45s with solid centres as early as 1965, whereas Polydor were producing singles with large centres and supplying plastic "spiders" in the 1980s.

It is possible to collect different copies of the same single with both solid and "optional" centres (EMI parlance) - I have "Break Away" in both variants, as well as various late-1960s Beatles singles with both types.

Hope this helps.

I'd like also to thank Ed for his comments and participation in this board . . . you are still writing a book I hope.

I have a question for Ed related to what seemed like Dennis' ascendency to front man of the group in 69-70 . . . and why it didn't happen.  the group's popularity in the US was at a nadir at this time . . . no hits of any kind.   They had turned to outside producers (Murray, Rick Henn, Terry Jacks) without success.  Dennis was writing and producing and was the only member of the band with any "hip" cachet.  Slip on Through opened Sunflower and Forever was the best song on the album (IMO, certainly one of the stand out tracks). 

Why didn't Dennis become the leader of the group?  You mentioned jealousy - he was getting too big for his britches, what with a movie career and all - but everything I've read about Dennis mentions how erratic he was, how he would work hard on recording for brief periods but then not show up for sessions to go surfing, sailing, or partying.  Could his unreliability have convinced the others that he would not be suitable as front man?  Or could Dennis have realized himself he didn't want to handle the responsibility of leading the band?  I've never heard the full story of what went on with Dennis' pulling his material from Surf's Up, but it seems like that conflict with Carl (and perhaps others of the group - especially Jack Reilly) was crucial in Dennis giving up on the Beach Boys as his primary artistic outlet, and the group really lost out as a result.  One can only imagine if the BB albums of the period had included songs like It's a New Day, Barbara, wouldn't it be nice to live again, Carry Me Home, etc. how much better the albums would have been.

Why didn't Dennis become the leader of the group?

- He didn't write THAT hit single they needed so much in the dry years
- He didn't fit the part AT ALL. Brian also didn't after '68, but there was always hope that his old self would come back.
- I'm shooting in the dark here, but did he show any interest in tracks that weren't his?

Ed, what happens is, people are usually afraid to post the wrong thing and the guy who was there reply "You just don't get it and never will. I'm outta here!". The more you join in, the more folks will reply with ease.

That one's quite interesting. I've often wondered what an album like Holland would sound like had a (sincerely motivated) Brian produced all members' material. You'd have only 2 BW originals but the whole record would have been "produced by Brian Wilson".

To me, it seems like only Carl did care about the whole group's material as much.

Hi Ed, I add my appreciation and interest in any aspects of the above topic that you're comfortable sharing. You're probably saving the bulk of your perspective and anecdotes for your book, but everything you post here is very interesting, far from thread-killing. 8)

Dennis always seems to have done whatever he could for Brian. He usually stuck around long enough to sing on BW productions, but I see your point. Is he audible on any Mike or Alan or even Carl tracks during this period (I know he and Carl worked together a little on LA)?

He helped a lot on Lady Lynda.

I think that Brian being in charge would've resulted in everyone else's songs not being on Holland. It would've been the Fairy Tale EP, Funky Pretty, and a few other tracks.

Yeah, but the time period I meant to be talking about was '68-'74, when DW really had the chance to be the new BW. My comment on LA was just to point out that Denn's seems to have started working more with others after his own career went out the window.

My idea of Dennis as front man would be that he would be featured more in the stage show and on TV appearances, get more Asides, get more of his material onto the albums.  He would be the "face" of the Beach Boys - because let's face it, without Brian there really wasn't an outgoing, attractive, charismatic member of the group other than Dennis.   Mike was outgoing and for stage performances acted as the frontman, talking between songs etc.  But his stage act was old and corny even in 1965.  Dennis could have done a Brian and given his mostly finished songs to Carl to finish for the albums if he was not disciplined enough to do it.  But next to Brian the greatest songwriter/composer in the Beach Boys was Dennis.

Maybe in the studio....I was priviledged to see the Beach Boys WITH Dennis a few times during the 1978-81 period, and, whenever a "new" song would be played, incuding "Lady Lynda", Dennis was long gone. So was Brian ....

I've heard the same...he was responsible for inspiring the full string arrangement, correct?

Does anyone have details of this new mix of  "Lady/Fallin in Love"?

Was it a Mark Linett mix?  Was "Sound of Free" on the same reel(s)?  What other songs were found with these multi-track tapes?

I think it's simple: Despite their quality, both Slip On Through and the Dennis-heavy album tanked on the charts. I said before if Slip on Through had been the hit it should have been, it would have been followed by another Dennis-written single (either It's About Time or Forever) and the album could have been the smash it should have been.

If that had happened, I don't care how jealous it would have made anyone, Warners would have demanded Dennis hada big role on the next LP.

Can someone tell me if I'm right with this?

That Jon Stebbins didn't comment on this thread makes me hopeful that other Denny releases from the vaults are in the works.

You mean, erm, that we should start a 'Original Smile Sessions 6 CD Box Set' and test whether Mark Linett will comment (or rather: not)?