The Smiley Smile Message Board

As I understand it, in Janurary of 1997 Mike, Bruce, and Dave Marks played the Superbowl halftime show. I think it was this show that Al had no idea about, untill he saw it on TV. Does anybody remember this? Was it any good? I've never seen it, and I had never even heard of it untill I read the Catch A Wave book. It seems that this was an historic event, for all the wrong reasons. Al was being pushed out of the band, and Carl was literally weeks away from death. Sorry to put it that way, but it's true. In fact, I think it was on that very day that Brian last saw Carl. He drove to Carl's house, and they watched the Superbowl. I made this topic just to try to get a few thoughts and opinions about show, and about this period in The Beach Boys's career.

I was at a friends house and they finished right before they got there. I didn't know they would be on. It was 1998 btw.

1. It was 1998, not 1997 (as MBE pointed out).
2. It wasn't the halftime, it was the pregame show.
3. Brian & Carl did in fact see each other for the last time that night, but they watched the game at Jerry Schilling's house, not Carl's.
4. Mike, Bruce and David were joined by Glen Campbell, Dean Torrence, and John Stamos (the latter on drums).
5. It was lip-synched.

To which recordings ?

Kokomo I'd guess  ;D

Yeah, I realised it was 1998 after I made the topic. I said it was at Carl's house because that's where I read it was, in a Beach Boys book I have. What recordings did they lip sync to? I'd assume they would have been from the Salute to Nascar cd?

California Girls was one of the songs.  Only bits and pieces of the performance were aired.  The announcers were talking over the performance as well.  It was more entertainment for the people in the stadium rather than people watching on TV.  From what I remember, they were only on the screen for about 30 seconds.

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I wonder what Brian and Carl thought of the performance by "America's Band"?

Thanks Carrie ! Do you or Dave know if those recordings featured Carl and Al's voices ?

Heres a shot.


http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/72570631.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABBCF0C2E12265F5186A40A659CEC4C8CB6

They were probably laughing  - all the way to the bank. I'm sure they got their check in the mail for the "performance", and cashed it....

Somehow, I doubt Carl was laughing at the time. I'm sure money was the least of his worries...

Did somebody say Carl was WORRIED about money?

I still think they were laughing. Can't you envision them making cracks about Mike's stage antics, or maybe Glen Campbell not knowing the words, or thinking "What is Dean Torrence doing there?"

I made the point about the money because they (Brian & Carl) could've voted the whole debacle down. Those Super Bowl things are planned months in advance, so the entire group (including Brian & Carl) knew about it, and could've stopped it. But, they never do seem to veto ANY kind of live thing. Maybe because they'd rather get paid?

As ususal, you are talking out of your ass. I  don't know about the Wilsons, but Al didn't know about it until the actual broadcast.

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Aren't you leaving out one important detail? That the band, whatever they were called, were lypsynching to songs that were RECORDED AS THE BEACH BOYS, PERFORMED AS THE BEACH BOYS, AT BEACH BOYS' CONCERTS?  That makes it a whole lot different than just "a Brian Wilson performance today". Brian, nor anybody else, could get away with that without permission. But, let me say that I never heard or saw the 1998 performance, so I can't verify where the recordings were from; I'm just going by what was previously posted above.

You also posted that the event was booked as something other than the Beach Boys to begin with. I think it was originally intended to be The Beach Boys, not America's Band. That Super Bowl was in San Diego, California. Don't you think whoever was planning the Super Bowl entertainment, months in advance, originally wanted The Beach Boys, and inquired about it? I do. And, if your band was being considered as entertainment for the Super Bowl, don't you think, somehow, the members of the group would know about it? Again, I do. And that would include Al Jardine. And Carl and Brian. There are meetings where these things HAVE to be decided and voted on. While I doubt all the members, if any, attend the meetings, I'm sure they're made aware of the particulars.

Now, when it became apparent that The Beach Boys weren't going to be able to perform - for whatever reason, and, the group was going to be called America's Band, I find it hard to be nobody in the band, except Mike Love, knew about it. I just find that hard to believe. And, yes, I question Al's statement that he didn't know, based on some of the most bizarre statements he has made over the last few years in his interviews.

Could've they (Brian, Carl, Al,) stopped it? I still think yes, based on the music that was performed. Yeah, you can call your band anything you like. But, was there some misrepresentation here? Playing Beach Boys' songs that were previously performed live at Beach Boys' concerts? (and, again, I don't know that to be a fact). Did they want to stop it? Probably not. Did they care? Probably not. Was it a big deal? No. Did The Beach Boys' get paid? I'd still like to know.

I only made an issue out of it because I felt, again, somebody was taking a shot at Mike Love (maybe even deserved), when there might've been some hypocrisy on the part of the other group members (i.e. profiting from the performance).

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Slight correction, Carrie - the band that played the 1998 Super Bowl were billed as follows -

"A Tribute To The Beach Boys Featuring Mike Love, Bruce Johnston, David Marks, Glen Campbell, Dean Torrance, and John Stamos". Snappy, huh ?

America's Band happened in in June - all the May gigs were private, therefore could be billed as The Beach Boys - and of the eight gigs booked under that name, four were cancelled.

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Slight correction? How about a major correction? Which makes most of your theories about Mike Love's "plans", Carrie, a mute point. It's obvious by the billing that it was a one-off, intended for that specific Super Bowl appearance, and had little if anything to do with a "plan in motion" or the "license".

But, it also doesn't disprove my opinion. Actually, it adds more creedence to my position. If that Super Bowl group - and it doesn't matter what they were called - used pre-recorded Beach Boys' tracks, they had to get permission, the group would've known about it, and they probably got compensated for it. Would it be legal for any group to perform at a Super Bowl and on National TV, and play, for example, tracks from Live At Knebworth, and not get permission and/or compensate the Beach Boys for it?

And, I'll state again, I don't know the specifics about the songs that WERE played, which could change things significantly.

EDIT: Carrie, I didn't want to ignore your question to me as to what "proof" I had that the Beach Boys were the original target of the Super Bowl entertainment commitee. I have no proof. In my original post, I wrote "I think". That would make it my opinion. Very, very few people who post on message boards have proof.

In my opinion, I would think a Super Bowl entertainment commitee would want the Beach Boys before a "Tribute To The Beach Boys", and it wouldn't take much to explore that possibility. I do have a few opinions why the Beach Boys, at that specific time, would decline to appear, but I'm not going to go there. I can understand why you don't agree with my opinion. You can dismiss it, which you obviously already did. :police:

Please be nice to The Sherrif!

I rather like the image of Brian and Carl laughing while watching that performance!

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Um, yes, that has been my point, which I obviously haven't been making well enough. And, to clarify, I never claimed it to be "an ethical violation". Actually, I've been saying just the opposite.

Again, I felt that Mike had to get permission to perform the Beach Boys' recorded songs (if they were Beach Boys' recorded songs), got the permission, thus the group had to know about it, and probably, the Beach Boys got some compensation - unless they were just being nice guys and didn't request any. That's all I was trying to say.

As far as whether the Beach Boys were the first choice for the Super Bowl, yeah, I believe that, and I have no proof. Pure 100% speculation! Actually, I didn't think that was such "a broad statement"; I just thought it was logical. I don't think that's an outlandish thought or opinion at all.

And, no, I had no idea that Mike "had his soldiers in line long before Feb 1998". You stated, "If you can't accept that, that's your right....but it's not a realistic point of view". Truthfully, Carrie, it's not a matter of me accepting it, or having a realistic point of view. Actually, I don't have much of a point of view in regard to what went down with the Beach Boys with Al, or after Carl's death, or the license, or whatever. And here's where we will agree. I haven't read/seen/heard much information about the whole reorganization, and I don't want to opine on "what went down". I feel it was all about the money, and the whole thing gives me a sour taste. Uh oh, did I just state another opinion?

Given that the NASCAR CD was 'released' shortly after the appearence in question, and pointedly not credited to The Beach Boys, maybe they were lip-synching to those tracks ?

[/quote]
Would it be legal for any group to perform at a Super Bowl and on National TV, and play, for example, tracks from Live At Knebworth, and not get permission and/or compensate the Beach Boys for it?
[/quote]Not if a member of "America's Band" is AN ACTUAL BEACH BOY. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that Mike needs permission to perform his own music. Or rather, music he actively participated in the making of.

The NASCAR-recordings were studio efforts. Carrie mentioned that they were playing to live-recorded tracks

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Memo to self: next time, read rest of thread before posting.  ???

Carrie, you have a habit of conveniently leaving things OUT when you try to counter my posts. Yes, it was obvious to me, and probably many others, that a band including Mike, Bruce and Dave - PLUS Dean Torrence, Glen Campbell, and John Stamos - would not be a long term lineup. See, you left out Glen Campbell and John Stamos's names above when you were trying to make me look wrong. Are you claiming that Mike was trying to start a band with Dean Torrence, Glen Campbell, and John Stamos in it? Is that your opinion or do you have any proof?

And, Carrie. the reason I agreed with you on one point (about the lipsynching), and disagreed with you about another point (about Al being unaware of he show; actually I wasn't disagreeing directly with YOU about Al), shows that I can be fair and open in debating issues on a message board - unlike some people. I don't try to make my posts personal. I don't agree or disagree with points based on the person who is making them.

Carrie, like I posted above, I don't give a damn about the whole debacle that went down after Carl passed, with or without Al, or with your husband for that matter. But apparently you do. You seem to want to make some point about Mike's takeover and pursuit of power. Fine. Post away. Nobody's disagreeing with you. I'm certainly not. I'm just directing my points to that one Super Bowl appearance, not the long range goals and aspirations of Mike Love. Geez, start a new thread and enlighten us about it!

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Out of interest Carrie, who would have made the call to lip-synch the show?

I have never seen the superbowl performance but all the names mentioned plus I guess sidemen should have been able to do the songs live surely?

I think lip-synching at the Super Bowl is only a recently broken tradition...in the '90's to mid 2000's it was the norm.

OK, Carrie. This is my final reply (I can hear the applause from my living room :police:)....

I stated that Brian and Carl could've stopped Mike's "performance" based entirely on Mike lipsynching previously recorded (released or unreleased) Beach Boys' live tracks, and having the other musicians basically playing "air guitar" to Beach Boys' music. I'm not a lawyer, but something just doesn't seem legal about that, unless both sides agree. In the Beach Boys' world, these things usually end up in litigation, and, money is usually exchanged between parties. That's it. That's all I was saying. Sorry if the WAY I worded it offended you. But, neither you or I know if Brian or Carl got compensated for the performance, again based on the use of the live tracks. Or, maybe you do know!

You are saying (if I'm correct) that because it was a Mike Love solo project, it didn't have to clear BRI. Yes, but I was never arguing that point. My point about stopping the performance was directed at stopping the performance OF THE BEACH BOYS' SONGS. Then, Mike would've had to resort to one of his solo offshoots; frankly, I'm shocked he was able to pull it off. Yes, Mike could call his group a lot of different names; there was a precedent in the 1970's with Celebration. I'm not arguing with you about Mike's motives, but you kept bringing up "Mike's plans" and Al's ouster, and trying to drag them - and me - into that debate. I'm not going there. My point, again, and I'm beating a dead horse, was/is - could he "perform" those live tracks, and did he have to compensate the Beach Boys, no matter what he was calling his band.

I can agree with you that "it sucks" the way Al got ousted - even though I don't know the particulars! :) When I said that I thought the Beach Boys (which I guess would include Al) knew about the performance, I was stating an opinion based purely on deductive reasoning. There was a Tribute To The Beach Boys being performed at The Super Bowl and on National TV. The lead singer of the Beach Boys was going to "sing" Beach Boys' songs. David Marks, Glen Campbell, Dean Torrence, and John Stamos - some fairly big names there - were hired to "perform" Beach Boys' songs. Live Beach Boys' tracks were going to be played at the stadium and on TV. I'm assuming the performance received some publicity somewhere - on the internet, TV, newspaper, radio, word of mouth, at live shows, BRI minutes, etc. And, The Beach Boys, including Al, didn't know anything about it? You don't have to tell me about the "world of the Beach Boys", I know about it. But, in my OPINION, I still find that hard to believe....

It was the pre-game show and only 30 seconds of it got shown on TV (based on reading fan accounts from the day, it was treated like it was an afterthought).  As I recall, it was a tribute to the California Sound, not specfically the BB, which is why Dean Torrence was there. I don't recall there being a lot, if any advance publicity prior to their performance.  The big show that gets the limelight is the half-time show because it is shown during the TV telecast.

Its all water under the bridge now but this must have been a difficult time for all concerned for obvious reasons. We of course can only speculate what went down between Mike and Al at this time but my take is something like this.
I would not be surprised if Al was unsure, or felt it was inappropriate to be planning any kind of future for the Beach Boys late 97-early 98. he may have thought the time had come to retire the band. To put it another way, he would not commit to the band in 1998.

Bruce has mentioned in the past on the Britain board how dates start to fill early for the following years touring. So late 97 I could well imagine promoters wanting to book the BBs for the following summer. Mike could have turned them down flat, or say he could not legally provide 'The Beach Boys', but could provide a form of the band under another name.

Fast forward spring 98. Mike has a reasonable number of dates confirmed without using the BBs title. Bruce and established BB band members willing to tour along with Dave.

So the cash cow rolled on in 98 and the use later of the BBs title increased it. I don't recall hearing of many staying away from the shows because there was no Al Jardine so why would Mike want to bring him back?


Total speculation again.

I'd question that. From the info Ian & I got for the 1998 shows & sessions, there were only eight dates booked as "America's Band" prior to Mike getting the OK to tour as The Beach Boys in mid-July - and half of those were cancelled, presumably due to poor ticket sales. Even if you include the shows immediately after as pre-booked, between Alan's last show on May 5th and September 4th, AB/BB had precisely 12 shows scheduled. 1998 was one of their slowest touring years ever.

As this was a transition period it may have been 8 more gigs than even Mike expected! ;)

This is a little off topic, but WHY did Mike "take over" the leadership? This isn't a put down of Mike, and I don't intend it to turn out that way. My question is, simply, why did Mike not want Al in the group? Why did he want Dave back in the group? Now, here is the BIG question: Why was Carl presumably totally left out? I realise that Carl was very sick by this point, but it was still his band. Not HIS band, but "his band" in the sense that he always participated in concerts, and recording sessions. Why would Mike and Bruce allow Carl to find out from Dave that he, Dave, was back in the band? As Andrew made it more than clear in his last post, it wasn't like Mike was making millions off of his being the "leader". At least not by this point(1997-8).

Carl didn't "find out from Dave" that Dave was back in the band. He found out from the L.A. Times. All of this is addressed in The Lost Beach Boy book... which was published by Virgin books a couple of years ago.

Sit quietly with your eyes closed and without effort repeat the following:
MeLeCo,,,,MeLeCo,,,,MeLeCo,,,,MeLeCo.....~

Meleco... as in: Mike's own label? I only know of the Catch A Wave CD. And that was 1996.

You're book is amazing, btw, Jon!

My favorite BBs related book thus far! Second only to The Real Beach Boy!

Will you PLEASE do us a favor and write a bio of Mike next?

Someone HAS to do it!

Right?

I'm going to bump this thread because I happened upon it, and think it's interesting.

Wasn't it billed as "A Celebration of California featuring Fifth Dimension, members of the Beach Boys,..." etc. etc.? Something to do with a centenial of some sort for California or some such?

OK, found it on NFL site: "A celebration of music and history of California. Performances by The Fifth Dimension, Lee Greenwood and members of the Beach Boys."

Well, that should stop some of the debate.  But it won't.

I've seen pictures of the Beach Boys with Brian doing Superbowl pregame in 1987.  Anybody know anything about that?

Probably not.

Maybe a highly regarded concert information resource could correct their info in this regard and that might help.

Here it is:

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/history/entertainment

Not "to The Beach Boys" but "to CALIFORNIA" and not as "The Beach Boys" but "MEMBERS OF the Beach Boys". Too hamfisted? Sorry.

To really get to the bottom of it, does anyone have the actual footage/sound of the performance or the announcements of the performance? The stuff that aired that would have been seen/heard by Brian, Carl, and Al?

 I believe they appeared on a TV special the night before the Super Bowl.  It was called something like "Super Night At The Super Bowl".  Patrick Duffy hosted the show.  The Beach Boys performed "The Little Old Lady From Pasadena". 

I think that's the segment where Ruth Buzzy is wailing on Mike Love with her purse! And Brian never looked better. White pants, Hawaiian shirt, fender bass....

I have the footage on tape and buried in a box somewhere. One of the sportscasters did refer to the act onstage as the Beach Boys, so he was decidedly in error.

You're right!  She drove up to the stage towards the end of the song and asked Mike "Who's Granny?".  He replied "You are" and she started beating him with her purse.  I'd forgoten about this clip.

This made me wonder if there was a rider in Mike's contract that specified where Ruth Buzzi could and couldn't hit him with the purse, making sure none of the hits came close to his head, especially if he was wearing his customary baseball cap for the show. Either that, or the rider called for extra-strength adhesive tape to make sure the cap didn't fall off if Buzzi's shots were aimed too high...

Ruth Buzzi?  That's so random.  :lol