The Smiley Smile Message Board

I know, I could have chosen a more specific title, but I thought maybe a discussion will start that talks about more than just these two songs.

Anyone ever recognized the little similarities of "Stoked" and the Rolling Stone's song "Stoned" apart from the title? Do you think there's a possibility the Stones heard the BBs song? I believe "Stoned" is from '63 or '64 so it might be more probable that they heard the "Surfin' USA"-album than in '62. Anyway, I just always felt that the songs were kinda alike. Maybe it's just me ears...

I hear the similarities. Never thought of that before, but it could be. There are a few interesting stories about the BBs and Rolling Stones. The Rolling Stones were huge fans of "I Get Around", pushing it on national TV in the UK. I think their manager tried to do some symphonic arrangements of Brian's music in the 60s, they were (and might still be) on youtube somewhere and were not very good. Brian was involved in a cover of "As Tears Go By", and will randomly call his more rocking songs his tribute to the Rolling Stones (I think I've read that "Let Us Go On This Way" and "Marcella" were two of his so-called tributes). Somebody here paraphrased Brian as saying he would beat his head tens times a day trying to figure out how to outdo the Stones. He once met the Stones around '65 or '66 in a studio. He said that he got so stoned that he couldn't find the door, and talked about dancing with Stones groupies. I always thought that "Let's Spend the Night Together" sounded very BB-inspired.  The next single, "We Love You/Dandelion", also had some more BB sounding vocal harmonies at points.  A softer style of harmonizing than had been typical of the Stones before. And how about "We Love You", anyway? It sounds like it's absolutely drenched in acid.

The "Surfin´ USA" album was released in March 1963 (much later in the UK: August 1965) - "Stoked" was recorded October 7th, 1963. So it´s possible that the Stones heard the BB songs (but unlikely, imo). To my ears "Stoned" was inspired by Booker T.´s "Green Onions".

Brian attended the session for "My Obsession" at RCA and, like whenever he heard something new, it made him doubt his musical direction (which was Smile at the time).  I believe that was the session that he was so stoned he had problems finding his way out of the studio.

The Stones jammed "I Get Around" on one of their sessions. It's on a bootleg boxset of theirs - I think it might be the sessions for "Let It Bleed" or "Exile".

EDIT: It's on a bootleg called "Bones and Jones" - http://www.taringa.net/posts/musica/2064241/40-Bootlegs-de-Rolling-Stones.html

You can (ahem) listen to it here...

Mick & Keith did an MTV interview in late '83 (promoting the "Undercover" album).  When asked if they had any plans to play live, they mentioned a possible pairing of them and The Beach Boys the following year at the Olympics Gala in Los Angeles.  As it transpired, the Boys played it but the Stones didn't. 

Also, in Robert Greenfield's book on the "Exile" sessions, he recounts a Stones mixdown for "Tumbling Dice" at Wally Heider's.  Mick asks someone if that's the studio The Beach Boys use.

I also recall a Rolling Stone interview with Mick from the "Some Girls" era where the interviewer asks if he remembers (!) The Beach Boys' "California Girls", and Mick replies that he LOVES that song.

And, in 2002 Keith did an interview for Guitar World, where he compared the sacking of Brian Jones to "the Beach Boys syndrome":  "I'f you don't pull your weight, you're not in, man.  If you're not there when we're working, and if you're totally f*d up when you are there...If it's gonna be like that', we told him, 'we can't work together'".

That's some pretty interesting stuff that I never heard of before. Man, a concert with the BBs and the Stones... Please keep it going. I love to read those connections. Two others:

A few years ago the RS compiled a CD with their favorite songs and the only non-blues-recording (better "non-roots-recording" because I don't remember if some country was on there) was "I just wasn't made for these times" by our boys.

In '98 (I believe) Keith said in an interview that the RS won't become an oldies-band. "We're not the Beach Boys".


But anyone got more thoughts about "Stoked" and "Stoned". I guess since the RS had their influences almost totally in american music, they might've been informed about the market even when the BBs weren't that popular in the UK and therefor maybe knew the album and song.
Thanks for all answers !
Thanks Christian for the dates !

The Beach Boys and Stones both played the amazing TAMI Show, Oct. '64 at the Santa Monica Civic. Did you know that the BB's were paid twice as much as the Stones for that gig?? Stones had little U.S. chart success at this point, and the BB's were sitting on a number one single and poised for a number one LP...bigger, and more in demand than the Stones at that point...not that the Stones weren't coming on like a hurricane...but in the U.S. it wasn't until '65 and Satisfaction that the Stones commercial appeal caught up with their notoriety.

Funny story about Dennis and Mick. Backstage at the TAMI show Mick tells Dennis "I'm Above You" Dennis gets pissed and throws his drumsticks at Mick who retaliates with his maracas. I heard this on a 1965 radio interview with the Beach Boys.

Should be the version by the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra from the album "EAST MEETS WEST - FAMOUS HITS BY THE BEACH BOYS AND THE FOUR SEASONS (Parrot PAS 71003) from October 1964, vocals by Mick Jagger (no other Stones involved).

Oh, here's another...before joining the Stones (in fact, before joining The Faces or The Jeff Beck Group), Ronnie Wood used to play in a band (with his brother Art, IIRC) called The Birds.  He says they used to cover "God Only Knows".

And in his great 1995 piano instructional video tape "Play Songs Of The Beach Boys", Billy Hinsche recalls jamming with Woody, who taught him how to play "Tumbling Dice", while Billy taught him "Little Deuce Coupe" (or was it "Help Me Rhonda"?).

Should be mentioned-BBs shared the bill with the Stones in  Birmingham (Alabama) in May 1965. Bill Wyman mentions in his book, however, that Stones were in a rush that day-and no real chit-chat time. 

The Birds´live set included "God Only Knows" & "Here Today".

Wow.  So I'm guessing it was Ronnie's choice to put "IJWMFTT" on that comp that Rocker mentioned.

I just thought of a few more...

Marianne Faithful narrated the doc of the Boys' '66 U.K. tour.
Andrew Loog Oldham promoted "Pet Sounds" with a print ad, paid for out of his own pocket.
Blondie Chaplin has played for both groups.
On the "Bigger Bang" tour, Dennis' "River Song" was played prior to the start of the show.

@ Rocker I think the Keith quote was from 1995 and it's pretty interesting because the Stones would become more and more a tribute band. If you know the great board at iorr.org you read many posts about fans complaining about the set list.  And we know who is to blame for it ... . I just say, in 2006 the Stones played 2 songs from the last 5 or 6 albums. In 1981 back then from the last 3 albums it was 13 songs (Some Girls 5, Emotinal Rescue 2, Tattoo You 6).

There's definitely a jammed version  - I think there's a boxset on www.vigotone.com that shows it...

No, he didn't, and I can state that with absolute certainty. back in 1994, I was asked by the folk making the IJWMFTT BW documentary to get them a copy of the famed ad, as Graham Nash mentioned it prominently in his interview. So, I spent a full day at the Newspaper Library in Colindale, looking for it.

It doesn't exist. Not in the rock press of the day, not in the dailies. That's why you don't see it in the movie -  'cause it doesn't exist.

Oldham did do something very similar the previous year, when he took out an ad telling people to buy the Righteous Brothers original of "YLTLF" in preference to Cilla Black's cover. I'm thinking someone misremembered that.

Another myth, debunked.

Another piece of the puzzle could be that, allegedly, Mick and Brian were both visitors of the Spector/Turner session for "River Deep, Mountain High" in 1966, together with Dennis Hoper and Rodney Bingenheimer.
Although it's often stated that Brian visited a My Ob-session in 1967, he was there at RCA, Hollywood in December 1965 for "Going Home", more a jam session. Invited by Andrew Oldham, other guest were Terri Garr,
Toni Basil and again Rodney.

Two other points:

Carl and Ron Wood playec in a all-star backup-band in the mid 80s backing Bo Diddley and Chuck Berry. It's out on DVD.

Bill Wymann joined Mike & Bruce on stage a few years ago.

But is anything known about the Stones being influenced in any way by the BBs?


BTW this is the CD I mentioned: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=5692593 (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=5692593)


EDIT: And what went on between Mike and Mick? In the early 90s it seemed that mike thought about some rivality (right word?) between them? Did this start at the Hall of Fame-induction?

I believe the My Obsession session was Nov 66, wasn't it?

August 1966, RCA Studios, Hollywood &
November/December 1966, Olympic Sound Studios, London

That's cool! Why?

The one on "Bones and Jones" is definitely the jam version. But it sounds weird, the vocals are much more polished than you'd expect from a Stones jam. Almost like they were overdubbed.

August 1966, RCA Studios, Hollywood &
November/December 1966, Olympic Sound Studios, London
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Interesting.  Brian was still working on good vibrations!  And starting Smile with Van Dyke.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Andrew G. Doe ... AKA "Boner Kill"  :P

Interestingly, I had thought it was Blondie who had slipped the Stones' sound man a copy of "River Song" -- until he told me that he had no idea that it was being played prior to the gigs. Dennis must have a fan somewhere else on the Stones team.

It's interesting that the Stones also had a song which was based on "Fanny Mae", just like "Help me R(h)onda". Forgot the name but I believe it was a pretty long title

That would be "The Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man," the B-side to "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" here in the States (as well on both UK and US versions of the OUT OF OUR HEADS LP).

Having downloaded "Bones and Jones" and listened to "I Get Around" : this is the version by the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra!

Yes!

From the liner notes of "Artist´s Choice":

Ronnie Wood on The Beach Boys

"This was Brian's best period. This is a very sad song, and it's very heartfelt. He has a wonderful kind of phrasing, which is quite rare in white singers, and he's such a melodic person. I remember hearing Pet Sounds for the first time. It was quite different for them - I think they were trying to copy Revolver, but whatever they were doing came out sounding unique. I picked this song because it has stood the test of time, and the lyrics remind me a bit of myself."

Okay, my bad. But they sure are using the word orchestra in a strange way. Here I was expecting strings and horns and a polished performance and what I get is a guitar-driven, sometimes out-of-tempo ditty that sounds more than a little improvised at times.

I heard that the Beach Boys played at Ron Wood's restaurant in the 80ies.