The Smiley Smile Message Board

In the late 70's and early 80s why did the Beach Boys bring BW around on tour with them?  He clearly was dysfunctional and added nothing to the show, at times it seemed like he was trying to sabotage it.  I can't imagine being part of it and willing to tolerate having him around why he destroyed himself with drugs every day.  It must have been depressing.

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as some called him, he was a trained bear, making the Beach Boys oldies act a circus, with ringleader Love, tightrope walker Dennis, and the bearded monkey Alan Jardine

What was Carl?  :)

It was a business thing because Brian all of a sudden was in the headlines. Maybe they thought it would help at first.

Why he agreed...it's more a matter of Brian being strong enough to say no before 1976 and not being strong enough after.

I think part of it was that Brian needed money, too. For as much money as he made, he and the rest of the group blew just as much. That's the thing about a lot of rich people, once they get a lot of money they stop living a normal life with normal costs. Suddenly, you HAVE to have huge houses, maids, tons of drugs, expensive cars (some of them rentals that you trash and have to pay for), lavish vacations, private jets, and whatever else. Next thing you know, you're broke.  Remember, Brian wasn't even getting most of the royalties from his back catalog at the time because Murry sold a lot of it in the late 60s.  He hated being there, but in a way he had to be there. Other people in the group were running low on cash too, and they probably felt that if they were going to have to share the concert money with Brian he sure as hell at least better be there performing. Plus, Brian Wilson's name probably helped bring in more people to the shows, too.

I was always under the impression that for the first few years of his "comeback", he was brought out on stage as part of his "therapy".

Two words:

"Brian's Back !"

Right. In addition to all of the above mentioned reasons, this was one of the main ones. The "therapy" included keeping him out of his bed, away from his drug connections, actively playing and singing music, maybe sparking some creativity, and, basically, being "alive", instead of wasting away in a mansion. And, for awhile, it WAS working. Look at the Brian Wilson shown in the 1976 NBC-TV special, sitting frozen behind his keyboard, barely able to move. By 1979, he had lost weight, had written Love You, was playing piano and bass, was more active on stage, and appeared to be a functioning human being again. Then, for reasons which have been written about a little, but not fully explored, he backslided, and the rest is history.

I think the reasons for Brian's extensive touring in the last decade were for a lot of those same reasons.

I don't know he got better for a while but by mid 1978 he was huge and in the mental hospital. He did get better for a short time in 1979 but by 1981 he was in trouble. I mean he shows signs of drug abuse all through 76-82 Landy was giving him weed for sure. By 1977 he was back on cocaine. Check out the concert video from early 1977. He and Mike argue on stage and he keeps wiping his nose. I would go as far as to say Brian was a lot better in 1974 then he was in 1980.

I didn't say he was cured! :-D

I guess I was looking for the positives. By the end of 1976 he was out from behind the keyboard and playing some bass. He did The Beach Boys Love You and Adult Child during this period. His voice improved considerably; MIU features some excellent vocals. He wasn't huge in 1978; I saw him in Philadelphia in June 1978. He lost about a hundred pounds; check him out on the 1979 Midnight Special. Some of the interviews in 1980 showed some lucidity and even humor. Maybe some of that sitting expressionless behind the piano was boredom, I don't know. I can't speak about the drug problems because I don't know the facts. I thought Landy kept them away in 1976 and Stan & Rocky served that role in 1977; I realize he was never totally clean. I'm more interested in that "breakdown" in late 1978, because I was really optimistic after Love You and MIU, then he was gone - again....

Brian hasn't been a normal, fully functional and independent adult since god knows when. He needs handlers. Those handlers - Landy, Beach Boys, Marilyn, Leaf & Melinda etc - will always be in an unfortunate position, because the fans want Brian to be happy, but they also want 'just one more album' and 'just one more gig' from the guy.

I remember reading a long time ago that the BBs fired Landy the first time around because he cost too much.  If that's true, they should have spent whatever it took to save Brian, or hired someone else.  I saw him at  number of concerts in the late 70s and he was obviously using and not happy to be there, didn't add to the show.  If you watch the You Tube clip for the interview for Japan Jam in 79, he was a zombie.   

Not this fan - I just want Brian to do whatever he wants to do (within reason - no drugs, of course), not what, to use his very own words "my wife and managers think".

Same here, the guy deserves to retire, if that's what he wants to do. 

Is that even possible?
Would Brian even know what he wants?
No wife and manager, no BWPS and no TLOS.

Carl woulda headed up the consession stand 

It really puts into perspective how sad of a loss Dennis and Carl Wilson were for Brian.  Sometimes, it is easy to forget how important a REALLY caring family is.  I'm not that interested in Brian touring or making more music.  I love the Beach Boys and some of Brian's solo music, but the man really should be able to make his own decisions. 

When it comes to touring, I can't really say why they did it.  Maybe the people around him thought it would be better for him, but I just can't  imagine touring being good for a person try to stop taking drugs.

Why Did the BB's Drag Brian Around on Tour? .....that is a question I put to Mike Love in 1982 and to Bruce several times (the latest being last year on the BB Britain board). The "answer"...."Who are WE to tell Brian he come out on tour with us?"........SOSDD with this group!

In 1978 he was bigger then 1977 for sure but I never thought he was huge until I saw film of . June 25 - The Meadowlands, East Rutherford NJ. That's the PM Magazine interview. He looks like 1975 Brian there and it's one of the first interviews I have seen where he doesn't seem to be there at all. Now you saw him earlier that week and say he looked fine. It's just inexplicable to me how he could bloat up so fast. By Midnight Special he looked pretty good again. Some interviews even in 1981 show him in great humor and very present. Late 1978 I figure he was getting back into hard drugs, his marriage broke up, and perhaps things weren't going his way with the group either.

From what I could tell Brian didn't have anyone keeping close tabs on him until 1975 when Stan was hired. I wonder if anything he has done since that day is out of true inspiration. This is especally a seriouis question since 1983. I am grateful musically for LOS, BWPS, etc. I just don't like that he is told to work. Andrew's post sums it up perfect.

I've said this before, but I think the final "nail in the coffin" was Carl's death.  The stuff with Dennis's death, and the Landy situation took a heavy toll, but I think that whatever remained of "Brian" died the day that Carl died.

True... but my impression is that Brian would be happier had not touring, Pet Sounds live & BWPS been 'suggested' to him. It's no secret that last summer he was in a very bad place: the Kenwood show very nearly never happened (and as it was a truly terrible performance, that might not have been such a bad thing). Fact - Brian hates doing the GH shows. Fact - Brian hates doing the post-show meet-&-greets. If the material engages him, he responds... if not, the autopilot kicks in.

I take your point about GH shows but he seemed on fire when I saw TLOS at RFH.

Precisely my point - the material engaged him, and he responded.

You see, even in 1978, there were shows where Brian was 'on fire'. Even in 1982. Brian's best MIU songs aren't worse, in general, than TLOS. I bet lots of fans found a way in their hearts to praise it in 1978 and hope for a better one next year. You can always see the positives, if you want to. Before we point fingers at the situation in the late seventies, let's think how 99-2009 will be seen in ten years or more.

Because I respect your opinions - and I want to be in your book! :police: - I'm gonna nitpick with ya!

Seriously....I was near my peak fanaticism during those 1976-1981 years, and I lived (and died) on every new picture/sighting of Brian Wilson I could get. Remember, these were pre-internet and pre-759 cable TV channels, so you didn't get nearly as many looks. I was obsessed with Brian's "comeback", and I judged it (my own way) on his songwriting (15 Big Ones, Love You, and then MIU), his vocals (which were vastly improving; check out some of those late 1977 concerts), and his physical appearance.

I thought he looked great at the Labor Day 1977 Central Park concert, despite the gaudy American Spring shirt and those red bell-bottomed pants! His arms and thighs looked downright skinny. The next time I saw him was, I guess, on American Bandstand with Mike & Celebration, lipsynching (poorly) to "Almost Summer". He did look slightly heavier, but not "huge" by any means. And he looked exactly the same on June 20, 1978 (my first BB concert) at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. The show opened with "California Girls", with Brian wearing a blue Adidas sweatsuit - and playing a brown Fender bass! He was not "huge" there either. Off the top of my head, the only other pictures that come to mind around that time are those USC pictures with Celebration, Jan & Dean, and the cheerleaders. Brian was wearing cream colored pants and shirt. Again, while he wasn't skinny, he wasn't like 1974 or 1975. As we know, by 1979, he did get thinner.

Maybe we see him the same - but describe him differently? No big deal....

Beg to differ, but when Love You was released, the general reception was along the lines of "that's more like it", although I'll grant that some cocked their heads and went "huh ??". When GIOMH came out, the overwhelming fan and critical reaction was "WTF ??!?", and in my opinion, rightly so. We now know that Brian didn't select which tracks to record and almost certainly didn't have the final say regarding the mix (if my sources are correct... they've not failed me yet).

Love You is the rough gem... GIOMH is the diamond turned back into coal.

I often wonder what it would be like if Brian wasn't touring in the 2000s, or recording, or writing. Would he still be mentally sound, enjoying himself, healthy, wealthy and wise? Or would it be a repeat of the bedroom years.

He'd be probably wearing a beard.

I agree about GIOMH, it really was a shame.  Here we could have seen Brian digging into his vaults and picking out his best stuff (Oh Lord for example) and just  making wonderful music.  The celeb cameos was of the time and would not have been missed by me either, but anyway.  I don't know what touring does for Brian these days, I just hope that if he continues to make music he is doing it because he wants to and the way he wants.  I know, no matter how much I love something, I wouldn't want to spend my whole life working.

I felt the same way when GIOMH came out.  I thought it was sloppy and the songs were weak.  I was also confused on the timing.  Why was it released so close to BWPS?  Why was it just tossed out there?  Weird.

But putting on my BW-colored glasses -- or really my 1977, bearded Brian Wilson glasses -- I get it.  This works wonders for all of Brian's solo work for me!  Yay!

It's easy to be critical -- Imagination is too slick, GIOMH is a mess, BW88 is too 80s or too Landy.  Whatever.  I think that's a crappy way to look at it.  The same guy who made Love You made GIOMH , made "TLOS" -- and I can totally envision that Brian making those albums.

It's easy to see the older Brian today as being propped up, dressed by his wife and his ego-stroked by David Leaf -- being forced to be someone he's not.  All of that may be true.  But so is what I'm saying.  That odd "McDonald's hamburger for every new song" is the only Brian we have left.  Or some variation of it.  Occasionally we even get 60s glimpses -- but really the late 70s "Brian is Back" -- "the performing circus bear" -- is who he is.

That's not changing.


(http://www.groovytunesday.com/thumbs_periodicals/fanzines/tn_bomp_brian_wilson_1976_77.jpg)

I guess I'm saying I like that Brian.   ;D

It's OK that you like GIOMH while it is a generally "panned" album. Liking or disliking an album is a matter of opinion; you like chocolate ice cream and I like vanilla ice cream.

But, you're really going out on a limb when you say that the Brian who made Love Love You is the same guy who made GIOMH and TLOS. That is not as much of an "opinion". That was 30 years ago. He ain't the same Brian. I wish creatively he was more like that Brian, but I don't think he is. Oh, I don't know him; do any of us know him? That part of the equation is an opinion. I guess all we have to go by are the interviews. Take a look at the Brian Wilson who made Love You in late 1976, and then take a look at the Brian Wilson from 2004 -2009. Do you think that's the same guy? Creatively?

Because it was part of the package - "you want BWPS, you gotta have this too". The original release date was January 2004, but everyone that heard it passed on it. Tell you something ? Like, they also thought it was sloppy and the songs were weak ?

Actually I agree with you for the most part on this post, it's just that P.M. Magazine film that throws me off. Have you seen it? I swear he looks awful in it.

I think a better title for this thread would be why is Brian dragged out on tour? I mean honestly. The first two years of solo tours it was new and he seemed fairly into it. Pet Sounds, Smile, and TLOS were valid musical efforts on stage. I strongly feel Brian should not have done non thematic tours after 2001 or so. If he goes on the road any more I hope he has a creative reason. He hasn't been what you call a real at ease performer since when 1970?

Recording and playing music is something I can't see him stopping completely. The 88 solo LP was OK when he had the right people in there with him. SI, Imagination, GIOMH, Orange Crate Art, IJWMFTT soundtrack all of these weren't worth much. I think you may be able to get a short 10 track LP or CD of quality if you combine them all. The Paley sessions, BWPS, TLOS, and I'll even say the Xmas LP were all enjoyable , but was Brian really getting to call the shots? Artistically I hope glad those recordings exist, I just hope Brian got something out of recording them. I feel he did but the way he is told what he is going to be doing still makes me uneasy.

Andrew, what was going on last summer?

I read that Brian enjoyed traveling with a bunch of guys around the world, I know I would.  Maybe he doesn't enjoy the pressure of performing, but perhaps traveling the world appeals to him.

Well, it depends what you mean by "general reception".  Reception within Beach Boys fandom, maybe -- but in the wider world, the Beach Boys followed up their highest-charting album in a decade with their lowest-charting since "Sunflower" bombed.

Dunno if that's a "huh?" or just a shrug, but it's hardly a sign that people in general thought that was more like it!  "Love You" is very much an album for the cult base -- in some ways liking it defines that cult base...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I can buy that some of the touring is a drag for Brian.

But I can't buy that never touring Smile would have left him happier overall.  Yes, it was hugely scary and confronting at first, no one denies that -- but his confidence level and creative output both leapt up a notch in its wake.  After years in which he only seemed to be writing one song ("How Can We Still Be Dancing"), suddenly we got an album-and-a-half's-worth of demos -- developed with a member of that touring band who he'd built up a good relationship with -- which sound more like a guy having fun in the studio than anything we've heard for decades...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Today I think many people like Love You that aren't big Beach Boys fans. People into alternative music probably dig it. Am I the only hard core fan that still thinks its mediocre?

Brian was just another victim of metabolism. Besides, what circus is fun without a fat man on stage? :)

If I'm walking funny tomorrow it's because I got raped by Clay and Mr. Blum. :)

Course, they thought that about "Holland" too.  :-)

I can easily see the labels thinking that GIOMH was completely uncommercial, but I'm not sure how much of that was an artistic judgement and how much a business one, given that it was the five-years-later followup to an album which peaked at #88, from an artist who was no doubt asking for a significant advance on royalties the label might never recoup, and which didn't have obvious-AC-hit-single written on any of its tracks.

And yes, I can see how people can feel that it's a flawed, inconsistent, rough-hewn and sometimes slapdash album... but I can't see how that makes it different from "Love You"!  "Unpolished gem" was the best we could hope for from Brian any time in the previous thirty years.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I gotta admit, the GIOMH/Love You comparison is probably the best way to consider the former album. It really makes sense. Rough as hell, basically piss poor vocals...maybe I need to re-evaluate GIOMH.

I may be misreading this, but if you're referring to Darian's input to the GIOMH sessions, it was close to non-existant. He told me the only track he's on is "Desert Drive" - and that was recorded in fall 2002.

I assumed Jonathan was referring to TLOS?

I want to know what Brian's band's feelings are about all of this. I think the general consensus is that they respect Brian and want what's best for him, and that they're good people. So if he's unhappy touring and recording, why are they taking part?

In my opinion GIOMH does have a lot more in common with M.I.U., KTSA, or even BW88. Whatever the real circumstances, Love You sounds like the product of one single creative burst by an enthusiastic, if mighty troubled artist, whereas GIOMH seems patchy, forced, and uninspired. There's also too much of a difference between a sloppy yet highly committed and lively vocal performance by 1977 Brian and the ones we got to hear on most of GIOMH.

Ah yes.. I have a pair of those glasses..  :3d  If you really want to increase your appreciation for his solo output, listen to GIOMH while imagining that Brian is singing every melody with his pre-1974 voice..  a perfect example is the end of You Touched Me.. it sounds like something right out of Smile or the fairy tale! (I'm completely serious).. folks, his voice went south, but he writes melodies in the same exact way he always did..  from his mind's ear.

I'd like to know too.

Simply put, Brian wasn't a happy camper: his sleeping problem was only a part of it. Other areas of his life were not in good shape.

Bean Bag - any chance you could cool it with the large print ?  It's kinda like all caps, i.e. shouting.

How's this?

Kids these days...  ::)

 :-D

Grumpy old geezers these days.   

 :lol

Well anything he did after 1974 would be better with his undamaged voice. It's a stumbling block and I can only think of a few near perfect Brian Wilson vocals since then. Matchpoint, Stevie, the 1994 GIOMH, Winter Symphony. That's about it.

Maybe throw in Won't You Come Out Tonight?  It's not very 'clean' but I like his vocal on California Feelin (2002), it's pretty emotive for him.

The 2002 California Feeling is pleasent but I don't feel it's outstanding. Woncha Come Out Tonight is pretty classy though.

I dunno if I am hard core.. probably not. There are things which I don't like about "classic" Beach Boys. The 80s concert gigs, and the ending of "Fun, Fun, Fun". A wooooh oohh ohhh ohhh, over and over again. Be True To Your School. But I do love Love You, and never really get bored of it. So you might be onto something here.

I think the fact that you even know about all those things you don't like makes you a hardcore fan  ;D

I certainly don't know all the details of every session, etc -- but I would definitely consider myself a hardcore, hopeless fanatic.  I love everything they did.  I don't have Summer In Paradise, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want it.  As for Brian -- he can do no wrong!   ;D

I didn't drink the Beach Boy koolaid...I was born with it in my veins!!