The Smiley Smile Message Board

Jenny Fabian: Years later I found him again living up the road from Earls Court in a flat where he had room. Again he didn't speak much. He was sitting in the corner on a matress and he'd apinted every other floorboard alternate colours, red and green . He boiled an egg in a kettle and ate it. And he listened over and over again to Beach Boys tapes, which I found distressing. He was still exactly the same, only now he was only Syd Barrett the has-been rather than Syd Barrett the star. Years after t hat I was told that he lived in the Penthouse Club and was very fat and got a weekly cheque from the Floyd. I prefer to remember him as this thin, white, violet-eyed nutter who didn't speak much and who wrote wonderful songs.

When I read this I had to take a moment out an evaluate my own life and mental state.

"Wait, is that me? Am I doing that?"  :o

I wonder what he listened to? Smiley Smile?

I've always liked Syd's music. I did notice that the "ah-HAH-ha-ha-HAH" part of "Vegetable Man" sounds just like the part of "I'd Love Just Once to See You" where the BBs do go "bah-BAH-ba-ba-BAH" (big differences in phrasings, you see), except it's a little more sinister sounding on the Floyd song. Those songs were made around the same time, so it could be that Syd listened to Wild Honey and subconsciously sang that melody in his own song. Or it could be a coincidence. Who knows?

No, they were tapes of Smile acetates: The Beatles gave them to Syd when both bands were in Abbey Road recording Piper and Pepper.  That was what really sent him over th edge. ::)

I was looking around for a Hoffman thread and voila, here is one. :)

Vegetable Man was recorded before the release of Wild Honey. But the parts do sound alike.

What's the story about Vegetable Man? To me, it's a great song. But it was rejected as a potential single? I can see that, but I also read somewhere else that the rest of the Floyd thought it was incomprehensible madness or something? Of Montreal should cover it.

No surprise. I love early Pink Floyd and Syd stuff.  ;D

It was one in a bunch of tracks that were being worked for the next single and album, while Syd was still a full fledged member. Eventually Apples & Oranges was chosen and released in Nov'67. Aftewards the band decided that the Syd situation was impossible to sustain and he was out. But you already knew that.

About the song itself, it's said that Syd wrote the lyrics on the spot, describing what he was wearing at that very moment.

Syd was so hip I'm not suprised he was into The Beach Boys

Soft Boys did in 1980

http://www.amazon.com/Underwater-Moonlight-How-Got-There/dp/B000059N5Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1238402000&sr=1-1

Of Montreal does some very cool covers. There take on Friends of Mine is my favorite.

In case you havent seen it, here are eighty-something covers they have done: http://www.youaintnopicasso.com/2008/01/30/a-collection-of-of-montreal-covers/

Vegetable Man and it's A-side, Scream Thy Last Scream, will never be released as long as Waters is still alive and has anything to say about it. Sure, everyone with a modem's heard them by now, but still. They should be available.

Jugband Blues was the only Syd song on Saucerful, but I think it was a Piper outtake...yet IMO its the best song on that album. Vegetable Man should've also been on Saucerful. I'll take Syd at his most demented and incomprehensible over Dark Side of the Moon any day of the week.

Nah, I'm pretty sure "Jugband Blues" was a genuine early 2nd album recording before he'd left the band. Syd plays on one or two other Saucerful tracks, too, I believe.

It's really a shame stuff like "Vegetable Man" and "Scream Thy Last Scream" haven't been officially released. It just seems like people are being dramatic about them, to be honest. I'm sure it was hard to see a friend unravel before them, and those songs showed a bit of that, but come on. And of course, at this point, they wouldn't want to put it out even more as they'd fear it would look like a cash grab after Syd's death.

And yeah, I agree - I can't really get into most of their post-Syd stuff. His solo stuff was pretty nice, too.

I fail to see what the issue is with "Vegetable Man."  Is it any "crazier" than "Jugband Blues" or anything off Piper?  To me it's just another great Syd song, but the way Waters talks about it makes it seem like it's a clear sign that Syd was losing his mind.

I've never been a big Pink Floyd fan, but I've grown to like Syd and his music  more and more over the years.  Funny that he was a Beach Boys fan, but only because I don't sit around pondering what famous people listen to.  Waters, blah blah, Waters, blah blah, ugh, Waters, I just don't like the man that much. 

Anyway, I believe some other Syd songs were supposed to be on Saucers but didn't make the cut. The rest of the band weren't really pyschedelic guru's (or musical ones!), sadly.

I think it would have been really interesting for Syd and Brian to work together, I think they were coming from a similar place during the pyschedelic era. 

Vegetable Man is a bit boring IMO. Let's face it, the songs Syd was writing in the latter half of 1967 - VM, Scream, Jugband, Apples and Oranges - weren't of the same calibre as those in Piper and the two first singles. But Waters and Mason should release them anyway. Funny that Waters is so concerned about exploiting Syd's madness and he has made a lot of cash from those Syd-related lyrics in DSotM, WYWH and the Wall.

Wow, thanks for the link. This is great.

Syd contributed guitar to "Remember A Day" and "Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun" on Saucerful Of Secrets .

Syd should have played on Wish You Were Here.

That story about him showing up fat, bald, toothbrush in hand, etc., at the studio is bizarre and interesting. He said "When do I put my part on?" and maybe it was just Syd's sick sense of humor or some kind of prophetic statement. If the story happened like the band tells it then it's almost unexplainable. Band records song about Syd almost invoking his presence and lo and behold! Syd appears, looking not like their young friend but a fat yogi/mental patient.

To me, Syd Barrett pretty much WAS Pink Floyd.

Duh.

He wrote the songs, had the ideas, was the image, arguably had the most sincere and agreeable personality (although Rick seemed like a good guy), lived the life, had more originality in his guitar playing than Gilmour, etc.

I like a few post-Syd Pink Floyd albums but the sound they captured early on was very exciting. Syd's solo work is great to my ears as well - sometimes it seems unfinished, as if it's all just fragments of ideas he had at the time, but even in that form there's a mysteriousness to them that comes from his sincerity. Whatever he was living - he was living. He wasn't thinking about it and cleverly putting it to song, it WAS him and the music came from it.

People are very polarized on this issue though. It seems to be, sometimes, either Syd's Pink Floyd or the no-Syd Pink Floyd, and no inbetween.

Thank god they didn't agree with you and recorded another ten great records. By 1969 they had found their own path and Syd was history, if you don't count Waters exploiting his myth in lyrics.

There's a great Syd quote somewhere about the post-Syd Pink Floyd where he made the connection between him studying art in school and the rest of the guys studying architecture...

I'm inclined to agree with him, although I like some of their other music.

Post-Syd Floyd was much more calculated. No contest.

In fact, there must be no contest. Piper is great but the guys had to pick the ball and run with it. And we don't know if Syd would keep his high profile. If Robbie Robertson had died before Stage Fright, we'd be wondering about all the masterpieces he'd record with the Band through the seventies. Look what actually happened.

Yeah, you gotta give those guys credit for sticking together after Syd left and producing some good stuff. Losing your main songwriter, lead singer, lead guitarist, and, well, overall creative force would've killed many a band.

Alex, I'm a big Syd fan, too, but don't you think Dark Side Of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, and even, The Wall, are good to great albums?

Just some background info. Roger still holds out that Syd was a schizophrenic, while Richard (in an interview not too long before his death) said that he blew his mind out on acid and that he didn't think he was a schizo. Gilmour contends that it was during the "See Emily Play" sessions that Syd showed the first signs of being out of it: he invited Gilmour but then had trouble recognizing him, an old friend. I think it's Roger's way of saying it's too deep and too close to the bone. Still I love "Vegetable Man," the fast version.

The whole Syd Barrett mythstery is appealing if you think of him as eternally young. In many ways it's as if he did die young. It has a certain appeal to it - far out young genius takes more drugs than the rest of us dare to, now exists in a higher realm of consciousness. Well, not now, since he's dead. But that was the appeal. There was (is?) a sort of devotional cult to Syd Barrett that I read about somewhere. Some guy who thought Syd was enlightened and sending out esoteric teachings in all his actions and music.

I dunno - the whole myth shatters when you see him out of the stylish afro, eyeliner, thin physique days -

(http://www.pinkfloydz.com/personal/Syd-Barrett-abril-2001-3.jpg)
"Going to read my paper, read my paper, read my paper. Hum dee dum dee dum."

Just imagine seeing Kurt Cobain age 40+ instead of the 27 year old pretty blonde guy.

I've always been a Water/Floyd man myself. Sure I love Piper but that was a totally different Pink Floyd than the band that recorded Dark Side. I've never really liked Madcap Laughs or Barrett though "Vegetable Man" and "Scream Thy Last Scream" are always on my MP3 player "hits" playlist.

Brian and Syd were geniuses at the same time. The  music these two were making at that time wasjust mind-blowing. Piper and Smile are the truest of pop music art.

Piper f***ed me up once on Ketamine.

I don't think sober listeners can appreciate what depths Syd (and his backing group) were exploring at the time.

I also don't necessarily think it was any good depths - something like Interstellar Overdrive is far from an enlightening piece of music. It's like a bad trip, irreversible psychosis, total madness all put to tape.

I think you're right, Son of man.    Wade to deep on Syd's stuff and you'll catch a riptide.  I get the same vibe with much of the SMiLE tapes.  Especially with them creepy chains (tambourines) in the Heroes and Villains instrumental.

Right. Which gives an interesting twist to that bit regarding Syd obsessively listening to Beach Boys tapes when he holed up in his apartment...

I'm sure BW today would be living just like Syd did if he didn't marry Melinda and no one was pushing him for more albums and tours. Friends was pretty much nothing but songs about a reclusive "hum dee dum, read my paper" lifestyle. "Busy Doin' Nothin'", anyone?? I think Smiley Smile (not the original SMiLE) and Piper could be perfect companion albums.  :o :ahh :ahh :ahh :ahhMadness...bad trips...startling freakouts...odd lyrics...etc. :ahh :ahh :ahh :ahh

I don't think so.

Syd lived in a small house with his mother until she died and then lived alone. Brian has always had people around even if he hung out with himself primarily. Even if Brian didn't still tour and make albums he'd still be living in some high-class L.A mansion enjoying the high life in his own way. Besides, Brian is and always has been a much more wealthy man than Syd (don't have any concrete facts but... c'mon) and can afford to live the life of Eccentric Pop Star if he wants to... Syd was playing Mr Normal because he wanted to play Mr Normal. He got tired of the pop music business and dropped out and lived like the rest of us.

You make it seem like there's something wrong with "songs about a reclusive" (which is only relative to Brian's position as Beach Boys pop star - otherwise the songs on Friends are pretty much what any of US would write if we were honest and not pretentious about our daily lives). Busy Doin' Nothin' is one of Brian's best songs - musically and ESPECIALLY lyrically. I can relate to that song more than Don't Worry, Baby. Meandering around the house, calling friends, doing little chores is closer to my life than drag racing.  :-D

 
  Been listening to the mono mix of Matilda Mother alot lately.  Another great song.  Great vocals.
  Might have made a good single.  Were there any singles from Piper?