The Smiley Smile Message Board

This is sad, but it's now been so long since there was any new Beach Boys release (17 years), that Summer In Paradise is actually starting to sound good to me.

I understand most people would not agree, but I personally would welcome a new release with ANY original Beach Boys. The guys that tour as the Beach Boys do a great job, and IMO are still the closest you're going to get to the original BBs vocally.

Begin super-critical responses:  :P

Hello John -

did your parents speak often about their love for their respective parents? And do you recall by any chance how stern your potty-training was?

I'd rather listen to both BB85 and Still Cruisin' for days on end. While I appreciate the two or three decent songs the group managed to record even for an album as disastrous as this, just thinking about Remember Walking In The Sand and Slow Summer Dancin' makes me want to reach for a sick bag. By the way, The Beach Boys, from a certain point on, should have never been allowed to use any sax solos on their recordings anymore. If they were to reunite, sax solos should be the number one thing to avoid at any cost.

The last time... no, the last three times I listened to SIP, it was because I was being paid to.

And it wasn't enough.

It sounds the way feces smells. If it were released under some other band's name (and so fans weren't digging for something to like), I'm convinced nobody would bother pretending.

Johnny, you're right. It is sad. And lonely.

I like BB85, I am very fond of Still Cruisin, but SIP should be reason enough to actually invent those Men In Black memory-wipers.

Aw, c'mon!  In another 25 years, SIP will be considered the Smiley Smile of the '90s! 

You watch!  >:D

I absolutely agree with that, the sax ruins most of their late-period songs.

Perhaps humor does not translate well on the internet, but some of the responses I've had to this thread were pretty lame and came off as attacking. Most adults are able to express a difference of opinion without trying belittle others.

There are a lot of bad things about Summer In Paradise, and I was never saying it was actually a good album; rather that it's nice to hear something that hasn't been played to death. I had never before spent any amount of time listening to the album, and it was refreshing to hear the familiar voices on something different. As bad as this album is, I find it funny that SIP is universally panned, but Brian Wilson's 'Imagination' album is considered a really good album by some, which I don't see as significally better or different. The 'Adult Contemporary' genre should be swept from the earth, sax solos and all!

And perhaps the former (humor not translating) is why you perceived the latter (belittling). I doubt anyone cares one way or the other whether you like something, and everyone supports your right to do so. Just don't come to my house and play SIP: that's where we'd have problems. (And yes, that was humor, not an attack.)

That's why I found myself eventually turning to things like M.I.U. or some of the songs on Still Cruisin', which I had both very much disliked for quite some time. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that this stuff is not even close to Today or Pet Sounds, but you can't listen to their very best material all of the time (well, sometimes I do anyway...) and as time goes by you tend to find a certain amount of enjoyment even in some of their lesser material.

This album has been out for some time now and although it missed the mark, Still Surfin' is as classic a Beach Boy song as the rest of the so-called classics. At least to Beach Boy fans of course. And every major group has had at least one bad album. But to call the work excrement is over the top and must come from someone with an axe to grind. Maybe someday you'll have an appreciation for the entire body of work from the group you claim to know so much about.

I'm convinced that phenomenon is true of any major fan of any band or artist. Once you've dedicated yourself to that person or band, you look harder for something to like and forgive the bad. While I despise SIP, I'm quite certain that there is BBs music that I'd mock incessantly if I weren't already "dedicated to the cause." Queen: I love them, and so I can find something to like in The Miracle or The Works even though I'd probably not have enjoyed them on their own terms. Dylan is the same.

I do appreciate the entire body of work, in that for anyone to make a living creating music is an admirable thing. And of course, to have created some of the best work of all time is more than admirable. That's not a free pass to make sh*t, though, and SIP is sh*t. And if you're speaking to me, use my name.

i enjoy the sax solo on Goin on     ;D

I enjoy the sax solo in "Ruby, My Dear" from Thelonious Monk with John Coltrane. After that it gets dicey.

Sax, when used responsibly, can be a beautiful thing between adults.

The 80s almost single-handedly ruined the saxophone as a means of artistic expression.

As big a fan of Brian's new music as I am, there's a part of me that still fears the worst when Paul Mertens steps up to sax all over the tune with his designer stubble.

I forgot some of your love's great sax line

The saxophone wasn't always evil; it sounds awesome on those old records by The Coasters (a favorite of mine), but like someone else mentioned, the 80s 'smooth jazz' sounding sax in enough to make me want to... :o

Another group, Super Furry Animals, have named the saxophone the instrument of the devil, and vow to never have any sax on their records.

Very true. The tool itself is never evil, but the person using it.

"Once you've dedicated yourself to that person or band, you look harder for something to like and forgive the bad. While I despise SIP, I'm quite certain that there is BBs music that I'd mock incessantly if I weren't already "dedicated to the cause." Queen: I love them, and so I can find something to like in The Miracle or The Works even though I'd probably not have enjoyed them on their own terms. Dylan is the same. "

The Paul Williams approach...

I've heard some nice Charles Lloyd saxophone on Feel Flows and All This Is That from the 70s concerts.

Is it really the sax which is the problem, or is it the sax tacked onto cheesy synths and drum machines?

I can't help but think it was all about the benjamins, at some point it became a lot cheaper to use cruddy digitised keyboards and machines than to spend time and effort writing, and get a bunch of good musicians to perform or play on a record.

In this sense, the Beach Boys may have "rationalised" their own music out of contention.

I love "Summer of Love" - always have, always will. If you stop jacking off to Cabinessence for a few minutes and watch the video, you might actually have some fun.

I agree with you, and for me, that can be generalized about most pop music in the US today. As a musician, I'm frequently dissapointed how few instruments are actually played in music today.

What I found surprising about Summer In Paradise, is that they didn't even use their regular touring musicians. As I understand it, the album was mostly put together by Mike and Terry; Carl had long wanted to do a 'rock and roll' album, and Al was kicked out for most of it, but I wonder how they felt about the record as they were making it. They played some of these songs in concert too.

Kenny G.

Sax works great in Madness records however IMO :)

Summer in Paradise is the worst album ever.  Period.  I've never listened to it...

gotta also say that one of the more acceptable songs - Lahaina Aloha - has got Van Dyke Parks playing accordian - a real instrument.  Wooh hooh!

(but i protest too much. Really, I love this album, but I'm just trying to be cool.  :)

There's some GREAT leads on that album. But the group vocals sound thin and poor.

Yep. Summer In Paradise might be in Carl Wilson's Top 3 albums - vocally.

?????


A truely and utterly terrifying remark!

Agreed, and same with Al. Might be just the opposite of "Love You"- horrible material, great vocals.

Yeah, Love You was ALL Brian composed; Summer In Paradise had NO Brian (yeah, I know "Surfin" was on there...). I guess Brian was saving his songs for his next solo album.

Yes, yes, yes!  I agree wholeheartedly!  I could fill the rest of this page with bad examples of sax in 80s rock (but I won't).

Madness nailed it, though!

How about Romeo Void's "Never Say Never". I might like you better if we slept together...

Then how do you know it sucks?

I agree that the Sax has been ruined. I used to hate it, but 'National Anthem' by Radiohead made me appreciate the sax. Then I started to like it on some songs that I didn't before, such as 'All Alone' and 'Goin On'. Not so much on most adult contemp including SIP

Summer In Paradise reminds me of the summer of 92 in a lovely way. I was just becoming a Beach Boys junkie and them having a new album out helped me feel that I was getting into a contemporary band that was still around and relevent rather than not.... How true or not true this might have been didn't matter much in the mind of a teenager.

I think what really killed Summer In Paradise was the fact that Kokomo came out on the Cocktail soundtrack before on Still Crusing! If everyone in the world (like my parents) hadn't ran out and immediatly bought the Cocktail soundtrack and then passed on Still Crusing (like my parents: exact quote "Why do I want to buy Kokomo again when I already have the Cocktail soundtrack"?) things might have turned out differently. So, if Still Crusing had come out BEFORE the Cocktail soundtrack, then Summer In Paradise, who knows?  They might have had some momentum going! It also looked cheesy to 'hip" people that Kokomo was connected to Cocktail, which I certainly can understand.

Also.... If you think Mike gets a beating nowadays, in 1992 he WAS the devil!!!! I think Brian bouncing back in such an amazing way these past 10 years has calmed down a lot of the Mike despisers. In 92, the fact that Mike was doing ANYTHING while Brian was having his problems was simply unforgivable to Brian maniacs!  Also, Brian's "autobiography" came out that year too!

I just feel The Beach Boys (Carl, Bruce, Mike, Al) didn't stand a chance in 92.

"Kokomo" went to No. 1 and, if I'm not mistaken, Still Cruisin' sold pretty well also. "Kokomo" and Still Cruisin' were in 1988 and 1989 respectively; the Beach Boys had a TV series in 1989, you had the 2fers out there, there was still enough interest out there.

Here's an alternative theory as to what killed Summer In Paradise. Because Beach Boys Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, and Al Jardine didn't contribute any songs to the new Beach Boys' album. And, Bruce Johnston, who had/has been stockpiling songs for decades, only contributed one ripoff/remake.

I think that Mike Love contributed 4-5 good songs to that album. And, I actually think the covers were decent. With contributions from the rest of The Beach Boys to round out the album, I think it would've/could've/should've been a decent album, because they were starting to sing very well again.

Before people opine that Mike wouldn't ALLOW any further contributions, I will ask - Of anyone in the world, who do you think wanted a hit Beach Boys' album more than anyone else? Mike Love. That's all he ever wanted. A hit record. Ever.  If one of The Beach Boys would've presented him/them with a solid song for the album, I just don't think he would've shrugged them off, and said "Nah...." The covers alone tell you they needed more material.

Right on the money!

I think if you smack our two theories together you'd be getting an almost clear picture of the truth.

I agree that Mike wanted another hit! But perhaps due to intra band friction/merda he figured he'd rather throw all his eggs in the Terry Melcher John Phillips basket rather than have to rely on Carl, Brian, or Al (who was put on leave for "attitude problems" at this point, right?) Who knows?

Of course, if they all could have got in a huddle and make a great collective effort, who knows what they would have given us.

speaking of horn solos, i do enjoy BW's use of Probyn's trumpet abilities: Oh Mi Amore, Your Imagination (live), Mexican Girl, Christmasy (very subtle)

Summer in Paradise is horrible... I've never heard it... pretty non-sensical, eh?

I understand hell is unpleasant... I've never seen it... sorta the same idea...

Don't take this too seriously, if you happen to like SIP... it's ok with me...

You should still listen to it. It really pisses me off when people go around saying they don't like something if they've never experienced it.

I agree with you, and a lot of people surprise themselves; you might not love it as an album, but I've seen people mention quite a few different songs that they enjoy off of it.

Interestingly Carl's "solo" endeavor of that time (with Beckley and Lamm) dosen't rock that much while does recall to a degree the SIP esthetics.


Edit:

In the end, SIP was the RIP to the Love - Melcher collaboration. They were great at one-of's but could not support an entire album on their shoulders.

No thanks, I really can't stand Summer Of Love... easily the worst song on the album for me (and that's saying something).... If I want to have fun listening to a Beach Boys record I'll likely listen to I Get Around or something.

Its not that its nonsensical, its just that you're a dumbass.

I've tried and tried to get next to this album.  It just doesn't do it for me.  It lacks in so many ways.  The polite way to describe it would be to say that it is a "weak" effort.   Had this album had the support of Carl, Brian and Al, it could have been as good as the 85 album.  Think of the good work that Brian and Carl were doing at the time.

If you want a good last BeachBoys album, try combining selections from Still Crusin such as Kokomo, Somewhere Near Japan, with Brian and Carl's solo work from the 80' and 90's with a few isolated gems floating around out there (think Soul Searchin)' and you'll have your album.  You are allowed one selection from SIP.   Mine would be Hot Fun in the Summertime.

There are just two things about SIP that I like... The cover art looks great, it really deserved a better album. And the John Stamos version of "Forever" is pretty cool. Sure, Stamos isn't Dennis Wilson, but the rock arrangement works really well and the accordion solo is just lovely.

Congrats, you just insulted someone who has forgotten more about the BB than you and 90% of the people who post here will ever know.

I didn't know Hitler personally, would that invalidate any negative opinion I have about him?

Hey, Rob, thanks.  Really, I don't mind being insulted - being insulted is something I HAVE experienced, so I guess I'm entitled to say I don't mind it. 

If someone making an off-the-cuff comment about an album whose reputation is horrible bothers you, you have a problem.  Lighten up...

"Cccan't we all just... get along?"

Jonas - "dumbass" wasn't enough, now you go for "retarded" - I happen to have a profoundly handicapped daughter who nearly died 3 weeks ago on her 16th birthday... so I don't like people throwing that term around loosely... unless you are, yourself, retarded...

You are taking this way too seriously.  My original comment could be taken as humorous, if the stars were to properly align.  Again, you might benefit from lightening up a tad...

I can assure you that I am not taking this seriously. However, it does annoy me that people participate in a post to throw in their 'off-the-cuff' comments when they perfectly are aware that they do it to get a rise out of people. What else are you trying to achieve by telling people who go through 2 pages discussing an album that 'I dont need to hear it to know its the worst album ever'? My comment calling you a dumbass could be considered just as innocent and 'humourous' as yours...if the stars were to properly align. So why take it so seriously?

Jonas - all I can say is "wow"...

You don't know who Taber is, do you? If you knew, you would have picked up the humour of his original post. Plus your paraphrasis of said post is incorrect.

MTaber rules!

I wasn't too impressed with Like A Brother on release, but to these ears it's aged very well.

I think Mr. Taber should be an honored guest. Domenic Priore called Taber a "voice of reason" among BB fans in his 2005 SMiLE book.

Congrats to Taber for his acomplishments, but if I enter a TLOS thread and call it a stinking pile of sh*t, I'd better be prepared to take the heat. Then pulling a 'you take this way too seriously' is lamer than the 'retarded' name-calling IMO.

I've heard Marty called  a lot of things over the decades, but they never, ever had the word "reason" in them.

Or "sensible", come to that.

Nobody here, whether Brian Wilson, AGD (not dragging him into this, just naming a notable poster), or a first-time poster who has never heard anything except Kokomo, is worthy of any particular, extra respect. If MTaber is particularly knowledgeable, that's great, but it's also irrelevant to whether Jonas wants to call him names. (I don't really think anyone needs to call anyone names, but that's beside the point.) Otherwise I take the position that newbies are all fair game for name-calling. "So, it's my first post and I love the Beach Boys!" "Interesting ... you stupid fuckface."

Considering the general quality level of that aforementioned book, that doesn't mean much one way or another. :lol

I don't know who this Taber character is, but comparing Summer in Paradise to Hitler and Hell is a little extreme... ESPECIALLY if you've never heard it.

Rest assured, I'm nobody special.  I don't expect to get a free pass based on my longevity.  I don't expect people that don't know me to automatically respect me.  I think it would be nice if I wasn't insulted, but heh, its a message board.  All I was doing with my original post was trying to inject a little humor.  SIP has a reputation for being HORRIBLE.  I have never listened to it, though I once heard a few seconds of HFITS in a grocery store (never saw a store empty out so quickly) (that was another attempt at HUMOR, folks - put away the razor blades).  I don't REALLY know if it's horrible or not. 

The reaction from some of you reminds me of the BlueBoard...

THE INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.

And indeed, comparing SIP to Hitler is rather rash. But hey...it's the world we live in. :)

Someone who says they like Summer in Paradise on the Blueboard would probably be banned.

Those RETARDS!

You're right!

But when I said to Jonas "you don't know who MTaber is" I meant just that... Not that Taber is worthy of extra respect, but that he's been reknown for decades for his off-the-cuff humor.

Heck, I think you can read bout Taber on the Fanzine section of the Brad Elliot book.

Sounds like all is well with the world, then.

was SIP ever issued on vinyl??

Yes it did. I have a Korean pressing that is actually very good. They go for around $75. The music does sound a little less sterile, but of course there is only so much you can do with bad recordings.

Ah, how can I find one?

Assuming there aren't better ways to spend $75 bucks than on SIP

Which I will happily assume for now. :)

Well just keep looking on ebay or perhaps musicstack.com or gemm.com

I made a search on ebay so that anytime Summer In Paradise under the LP catagory came up I was emailed.

Yes, you'd better spend those $ 75 on a visit to an experienced masseuse, and I bet perfume and a shower afterwards will be included too.

Good idea!

I wonder is Marcella is still avaliable! :p

I don't like the album either. I just figured I needed to listen to it before I know that.

So how long until we get the carefully remastered deluxe 180 gram vinyl reissue of SIP, complete with 100 pages of essays and expanded liner notes?! :lol :lol :lol

I can't see it being reissued in any format, but wouldn't that be a hoot.

I think the only way we'll see SIP released in the forseeable future, is if the Beach Boys get a fluke hit single or hit album or comeback or something - kind of like the Endless Summer craze, or even a "Kokomo" - and Capitol Records wants to cash in on it. The logical move would be to package it with Still Cruisin' (which, of course, has "Kokomo" on it) and release it as a specially-priced 2fer.

I've been a Beach Boys fan all of my life, but I had never heard SIP until maybe 6 or 7 years ago. I had read about how awful it was, and I didn't think it would live up to the hype (or live down to it, as it were) - when I finally listened to it, it lived up to my expectations of awfulness. Truly abysmal and leagues worse than even a song like "Problem Child."

This entire album, "Summer of Love" in particular, was way ahead of its time in gimmicky, pro tools production; the vocals in "Summer of Love"  sound like most of the sh*t that's on the radio nowadays in any genre, with its auto-tuned, phased vocals and the dopey reverbs all over everything.

SIP and BWPS are the two poles of Pro Tools production. SIP represents the worst, even 20 years later, and BWPS represents one of the best.

Never heard this album, and don't plan to........I really don't plan to.

I know there's not a lot of love for Summer In Paradise, but I can't understand how fans would want it to be out of print, while seeking out even worse out of print albums like Goin Public and the disco Celebration. It's not nearly as bad as those are.

Vocally, the album is one of Carl Wilson's best; that alone makes it worthwhile...

Wild_Honey_In_Stereo, everybody is entitled to their opinion, and I respect yours, but....I don't understand how serious fans of The Beach Boys, and I would consider you a serious fan (I've followed your posts), don't want to hear EVERY Beach Boys' album. I'm not talking about every alternate take, every stack o' track/stack o' vocals, every stereo or mono version, every new mix/old mix, and all 142 takes of "Good Vibrations". But, every studio album, yeah, I'd expect that. No offense intended. :police:

I have heard Going Public and Celebration - maybe I owe SIP an apology... ;D

The aforementioned are all awful. Does it really matter much whether an album is the 3,973,561st best album ever as opposed to being the 3,973,562nd best ever? That when, after subjecting oneself to repeated, torturous listenings, one can pick out a few things that really don't suck as bad as the rest of it does? It isn't our job as fans to find the less-than-horrendous in the generally horrendous. We can love the great and like the good, but so too can we vomit from and mock the bad.

You really are right. Also the fact that I LOVE  Keepin' The Summer Alive and that's hated by lots of people should make me wanna hear SIP.

But you know what puts me off, the fact that John Stamos is on the album, and it's just one of the two or so albums that I wish didn't exist in the BB discography. The other being stars and strips.

But I expect to purchase it one day  ;D

But now you have another tough decision - whether to purchase the US or UK version.  :)

The UK version is clearly superior, but also more expensive at this point.

I agree that the UK version is superior. Except I prefer the US version of the title song.

If they don't want to pay to repackage the album, they should at least make it available for download, like they did for 'Still Cruisin'.

Well, that certainly casts a new shadow on these BB album titles.

Carl and the Passions "So Tough"
The Beach Boys Love You
Surf's Up
Pet Sounds
All Summer Long
Surfer Girl

I always thought that the Wild Honey album was full of little sexual innuendos and other dirty little jokes. "I'd Love Just Once to See You" is obvious, but I always thought "Wild Honey" had some sly references to 69, fore example. His 'love' is coming down on him and he's eating up her wild honey, and telling his honey to eat it up. But maybe I just have a vivid imagination...

Now that you put it that way, that's a little Hawthorne smut for ya. Summer of Love is still more offensive. :)