The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hello All!

so i have a live version of Surfs Up.... not the Brian solo , but a full band one with Carl on lead and a horn section.... where does it come from? can't imagine it was a regular in the setlist..... ???

Not sure what you've got, but it was a semi-regular part of the setlist in 1971-73.  I think that there was a widely-traded recording made at Princeton University from 1971 floating around, but you might have something else.

If you have the one I am thinking of with Carl giving a count at the begining (a board tape) it is the version of the song that the group recorded in Baambrugge while working on the Holland LP.

That's actually the song as performed live at the legendary Grand Gala du Disque Dutch TV show, February 25th 1972. They didn't record "Surf's Up" in Baambrugge, or even re-record it.

Really? I have the tape from Grand Gala du Disque Dutch and this one sounds different. Brad has an entry in his book about it. I always thought is was like a reheasal recording. Thanks for the info.

Agree with AGD, Surf's Up was never re-recorded in the studio during their stay in Holland. But just prior to their temporary emigration they did play on the Grand Gala Du Disque TV-show. (H&V, Sloop JB, Surf's Up and Stud. Demonstr. Time). I see that Brad Elliott does mention it in his book (page 285), being a Holland-outtake, but I suspect this is a mix-up with the GGDD-live version, from a few months earlier.

As for the origin of the recording hypehat is talking about. Comparing the Princeton with GGDD recording: both start of with a count. Diffrecne is that their is some applauding on the Princeton-version during it's announcement and count-of (both by Carl), while on the GGDD-recording the audience is quiet (and before Carl starts counting, Dennis introduces the song).

if it clears it up a little bit, it's in Project Smile (i know we're not supposed to mention such things on the board :police: ). It's definitely not an audience recording, as the qualities pretty good (relatively speaking) . I had no idea it was performed live at all, seems like the sort of thing they'd veto as being too 'out there' for the regular crowd....

It was the legendary title track of their then-current LP, with much written in the contempo press about it, so of course they did it live regularly from Sept. '71 to the end of '72, with a few reprises in '73 and '74.  It even made the Wembley setlist in June '75. 

OK, SMiLE-Holland, here's an assignment for you:  talk to your current contacts over there, make some new contacts over there, whatever it takes...but find out if the Grand Gala Du Disque performance exists on archived videotape, and if so...get the national TV to rebroadcast it and put it on the web.  :)  Since they did that docu on the Holland album, I'm sure they'd be willing to consider it!

A new studio recording of "Surf's Up" WAS made...or at least attempted...on June 18, 1971 at Sunset Sound, using many of the same studio musicians who played on the original.  But I'm not sure if vocals were recorded on that.  Come to think of it, I'm not sure why they would use the original 4-track backing tape for the released version, instead of a brand new 16-track recording...unless the new version just wasn't as good as the original...meaning it likely just didn't have the same "vibe"...

speaking of a nice little challenge here...  :P

Chances are not that little that the the original footage isn't there anymore. But one never knows...
Might as well ask if indeed a lip-synch performance Marcella exists. According to Badman's book it was recorded a day before GGDD by the same Dutch TV-channel...

Did the Boys ever appear in 'Sjef Van Oekel's Discohoek'?

for the Beach Boys I really hope they didn't (speaking of another challenge...)

good point, although not everyone has detailed knowledge of BB's setlists, y'know.

strange how many Smile songs made it into the setlist after all the 'how can we play this live?' aspect of the anti-smile feeling from the rest of the group....

I'm not following that logic. The BB's regular crowd in '71 was probably more out there than they were. They were comfortable enough to perform Vegetables on national TV in '71...and as C-man said Surf's Up was the title track of the Top 30 LP they were flogging at the time...seems obvious they'd be playing it in concert. Those were certainly the good old days. I think the "how can we play this live?" stuff from the rest of the group is just more Leafian myth. I don't really see much actual evidence of that.

you'll be a quick learner if you'd visit this very informative website  :)  : http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/setlists.html

For me a high quality, official release of Surf's Up from the early 70s era is high up on my wish list. One can but hope and pray that during the recording of shows for the In Concert album that Surf's Up was recorded and today sits somehwere in the vaults awaiting official release.

I have two recording of the Grand Gala du Disque version of Surf's Up. One is a muddy version from the Long Lost Surf's Songs series of boots (this version seems to be in wide circulation) and the other is a rarer but very good quality version of the same recording I picked up in a trade. I love this version and it sits very comfortably in my 70's live compilation alongside the Nov 72 Carneige Hall recordings and the In Concert album. 

I saw the BBs perform "Surf's Up" live at the Georgia Tech concert in March of 1972. They did a lot of then-recent songs, reserving a few of the oldies for the end of the show. The crowd at GT was generally appreciative, the audience at the University of Georgia show later in the year (after the BBs had returned from Holland) was much less so. The UGA crowd kept yelling out for the hits -- there was even an editorial in the student paper bemoaning the lack of older material in the set list:

"Yes, they were good, but they didn't play what I wanted to hear." Sound familiar?

As for myself, I enjoyed hearing both old and new material in those shows. :rock :woot

is it? i haven't read Leaf's book, is it really that bad? my (somewhat limited - i've only started getting seriously into the BB's recently) understanding was that the BB's live sets never veered far from surfing and cars, although i'm always welcome to be corrected :) thanks for the link too, Smile holland

i had no idea about veggies on telly, too. Is it on youtube?

oh, and hi everyone. Nice to meet y'all  :)

Check this setlist:

Carnegie Hall, New York City
September 24, 1971

1. GOOD VIBRATIONS
2. TAKE A LOAD OFF YOUR FEET
3. DON'T GO NEAR THE WATER
4. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE
5. DARLIN'
6. STUDENT DEMONSTRATION TIME
7. COOL COOL WATER
8. LONG PROMISED ROAD
9. GOD ONLY KNOWS
10. SLOOP JOHN B.
11. IT'S ABOUT TIME
12. MIKE'S TM POEM
13. FEEL FLOWS
14. DISNEY GIRLS
15. LOOKIN' AT TOMORROW
16. CAROLINE, NO
17. BARBARA
18. SURF'S UP
19. HEROES AND VILLAINS

-Encore-
20. DO IT AGAIN

Then Hypehat, you're in for a treat...if you look around, you'll probably find one or two fairly decent concert recordings from that era...

How lucky you are Emdeeh...so, what do you recall about the onstage configuration for "Surf's Up"?  Carl on piano or electric piano, I assume...was Dennis upfront for that one, or toward the back on keyboards?  What about Bruce (still there in March '72)...I know it was a LONG time ago, but I remember most details of all my BBs gigs, going back to '79... ;D

I will give Leaf that one. He doesn't give much a fair shake else from anyone but Brian, but those early seventies sets he does praise.  hypehat they were a very progressive band on stage especially from 1971-73. The shows were short before then, but very tight and the set was continually updated.  It was only around 1975 that oldies really took over. Even as late as 1993 they occasionally had progressive set lists. When playing indoor theatre shows even Mike and Bruce do a lot of rarities these days. They deserve a lot of criticism for many of there sets, but they were a great live band during the same years they were a great studio band.

Ok, let's leave Leaf off for this one, though 'Leafian' is a good (if somewhat unfair) label for the 'Smile wasn't released because the band couldn't play it live' myth. The guys played 3 or 4 songs from Pet Sounds when it was a new release and took care of business. Smile would just be a new album and the same amount of singles and album tracks would be added to the set list. Nothing new.

Btw, Surf's Up was one of two singles extracted from the then new album. Why oh why wouldn't they play it live?

This is sort of related. I've always felt that a lot of the more "progressive" songs (Good Vibes, GOK) sounded better live than some of the earlier songs (I Get Around in particular). I'm sure there are others who feel that way.

I think The Beach Boys get a bum rap when it comes to integrating new material or more obscure songs into their setlists. Even going back to the post-Endless Summer/Brian's Back period, they played their share of new songs/non-hits. It's just that they play SO MANY hits, it overshadows the rest. Not to oversimplify, but it might have to do the the fact that their songs are so short, that, numberwise, they easily overpower the non-hits.

Somebody who has access to the exact setlists can correct me if I'm wrong, but look at the number of "new" songs they actually performed, starting with their "back to the oldies" period:

15 Big Ones
- Rock And Roll Music
- It's OK
- That Same Song (on TV)
- TM Song (on TV)
- Susie Cincinnatti
- A Casual Look
- Back Home
- You Are So Beautiful (around that time)

Love You
- Roller Skating Child
- Honkin' Down The Highway
- Airplane
- Love Is A Woman

MIU
- Come Go With Me
- Peggy Sue
- Country Pie (from around that time)
- Almost Summer (related)
- Cruisin' (related)

L.A. (Light Album)
- Good Timin'
- Lady Lynda
- Angel Come Home (on National TV)
- Sumahama
- Here Comes The Night
- Shortenin' Bread

Keepin' The Summer Alive
- Keepin' The Summer Alive
- Some Of Your Love
- School Days
- Livin' With A Heartache
- Goin' On

This doesn't include some of the album cuts from the Surf's Up, Carl & Passions, and Holland that they sprinkled in there...
 

That's 8 out of 10 songs from their latest album. Impressive.

They played I Get Around GREAT in '64(see TAMI show)when it was a new song. But it never really worked later with Ricky(or anybody but Dennis) on drums. Most of the surf/hot rod period songs were better with Dennis playing drums live...the more sophisticated stuff worked well with Ricky...although Dennis was great on Wouldn't It Be Nice too.

One of Dennis's best performances of a Pet Sounds' song, or any song for that matter, is "Sloop John B" from the 1976 It's OK NBC-TV Special.

Yeah, I agree. In the seventies, they performed often I Get Around. Technicaly everything was there, Mike could still reach those notes without going nasal, but they just pale compared to the performance in Ready Steady Go, for example.

I don't recall specifically, but Carl was on keyboards for some songs at the Tech show, probably SU as well. Dennis wasn't there -- the reason given was that he had a sick child at home. Even without Dennis, it was a sizable lineup of BBs -- Mike, Carl, Al, Bruce, Blondie, and Ricky. Bruce played bass for most of the show.

I have a live Surf's Up from an unknown date/place that is most certainly in front of a large live audience. It sounds like an audience recording. People keep talking through the song and some guy starts yelling at them to shut up and Carl chuckles and everyone cheers!

Anyone know where/when this was recorded?

Good point and they played the 85, Still Crusin, SIP, and S&S stuff too. It's just that starting roughly in 1975 the show was an oldies show for the most part. Maybe we can say the Beacago or the 1993 are the exceptions, but even though they still did new stuff the old songs became the theme. Through 1980 there was some restraint, but after the surf and car medleys with non Beach Boys songs included started it was over.

Sounds like St. John's University, March of '72.  One of my favorite shows.  During "Wodnerbill", Carl stops the song to tell some guys in the audience to quit fighting.  Mike says "Anyone who wants to fight can go to Madison Square Garden and get paid for it". 

wow!

where can I get my hands on the whole recording?

Carl medleys?... now that would've been interesting...  ::)

OK maybe it was a subconscious wish?

Wow, what a set!

Seeing that concert (and hearing Mike's poem) would have been truly "transcendental".

Seriously, contemplating seeing that and similar shows from that era is one of the few
things that actually make me wish that I was even OLDER than I already am.

Thanks for posting that, AGD (Whew, time for me to meditate....) ;D

My post isn't to DISAGREE  with you, muted (it's your opinion), but to state mine....That's the WORST Beach Boys' setlist I ever saw. If I was a Beach Boys' fan, either casual or diehard, I would've walked away from that show extremely disappointed. With songs performed like "Take A Load Off Your Feet", "Student Demonstration Time", "It's About Time", "Lookin' At Tomorrow", and finishing with "Heroes And Villians" and a single encore of "Do It Again", I can see why thet went to the oldies-laden setlist. The Beach Boys chose that route because the fans would've demanded it. They could not have continued with setlists like the above one. From "Good Vibrations" to "Take A Load Off Your Feet"?

Sheriff John Stone I agree with much of what you post but that's a great set. It's only because the Beach Boys were unfairly turned into surfing charichatures in the public's mind that it wouldn't fly. Take the Stones in 1972 they did very little hit wise, but they were accepted warmly. The Beach Boys had the same right to do a modern 1972 show, and for those who couldn't dig it well I consider it their loss. I know you enjoyed the later shows for what they were, a lot of people did, but as long as they were prolificly putting out solid new music they had no obligation to play old songs. Sadly the solid new music didn't last beyond a year, but it could have. At the very least they never should have made the balance of their shows oldies, too many of which weren't even theirs.
I do respect your view but I strongly feel the 1972 Beach Boys were doing something very right.

I honestly don't see why that is such a bad set list? So okay Mike's TM Poem would've been REALLY lame I reckon but still excluding that it's not a bad set list at all:

Top 20 Hits (6 out of 19)
Current Album (8 out of 19)

So that leaves "God Only Knows" (can't argue with that), "Caroline, No", "It's About Time", "Cool, Cool Water" and "Barbara"

Hmm certainly doesn't seem all that bad to me.

Maybe the new music wasn't as "solid" as you think, and I mean no disrespect. As I have pointed out (too many times for some), we on this board make up less than 1% of Beach Boys' fans. I think it's a stretch to call "Take A Load Off Your Feet", "Student Demonstration Time", "Lookin' At Tomorrow", and, to some extent, "It's About Time", solid songs. AS album cuts, OK, but as songs chosen to "carry" a live show, I don't know. Yes, they performed them well and the band was getting good, but they left out too many gems. I praise the band for trying the new stuff, but I wonder how many fans were waiting patiently for the next song, and you know the songs I'm talking about. And I don't think a fan should have to wait patiently at a concert. Just my opinion.

How many shows did they play that didn't even feature California Girls? That's kind of weird actually and I agree this might've been a bit of a disappointment to some, but still it qualifies as an impressive and most of all gutsy setlist. The Beach Boys after Friends and Sunflower could have given up on believing in their current records easily and still this probably didn't happen until after Keepin' The Summer Alive.

i have an old cash box magazine (kinda like billboard...their charts were more on sales and not sales/airplay like billboard) that reviewed the sept 24th 1971 show. the reviewer loved the show. said the audience did also. rave review. said it "was like an old book. leaf thru the pages often, it feels good". so that show went over well.

I like that set  list myself...but I will say that having collected reviews (if they exist) for almost every show that we list on Bellagio from that period-the BBs encountered hostility often.  One glaring example-The BBs played a show at the University of Virginia with the Byrds in 1971.  The audience was extremely hostile-refused to listen to the new songs- the band engaged in hostile banter with them-which is in the review..Audience came alive when the oldies were played at the end. This was quite common at shows in 1971-73.  I have a lot of reviews that describe disgruntled (and drunk) college audiences showing a lack of patience with "Lookin at Tomorrow" and other album cuts..  To the BB's credit they really resisted the "oldies act" tag for many years

Part of the Beach Boys reason for touring was to expose audiences to their "new music" so they would buy the new albums.  They had lucrative recording contracts but they knew if the albums didn't sell, they wouldn't be renewed and it would be difficult to get a new recording deal.  So touring the "new album" was a tried and true method to promote sales, along with trying to get radio airtime.  So it's hardly surprising that through the 70's and into the '80s they continued to introduce new songs into the live act.  The amount of live material in the Carnegie Hall set is a little atypical though.  How I wished I could have seen that set!

Despite this they somehow managed to get things back on track during that time. Some may have resisted the Beach Boys growth, they built up a whole new following and got their reputations back. It's again simply unfair that US audiences wanted to trap them in 1964. Can you imagine the Beatles having that put on them? I think Dennis had a great quote about jumping around in Beatle suits. Ok Feet is no Help Me Rhonda, but the majority of what they cut from 67-72 was fantastic. Besides I bet the tape just ended short and they did more then Do It Again for an encore. All in all had the Beach Boys not looked back people would have had to accept them for who they were not who they used to be.

I respect your opinion as well, Sheriff, but I would LOVE to have seen "It's About Time" and "Lookin' at
Tomorrow" (O.K., not quite as much, although in the laid-back context of the overall set it would have been mellow) live. And "Barbara", "Feel Flows", "Disney Girls", "SURF"S UP", come on! Worst ever?

I would admittedly have gone to use the facilities during"Student Demonstration Time" and am ambivalent about "Take a Load off Your Feet", and yes, it is a short set and a few more choice classics would have been desirable, but that was a rare, delicate and unique live era for them and those who were there are very fortunate, IMO. I would've given my eyeteeth (OUCH!) for the privilege. :'(

I forgot to mention Mike's TM poem. I might have stayed and listened to that out of morbid fascination,
but more likely would have developed (or invented) an urgent need to avail myself of the rest room
facilities again. :)

They should have played Yoga Is As Yoga Does right after the poem.

Barry Piatoff, who attended this concert, recalls that there were five additional songs in the encore, including "Little Deuce Coupe", "Help Me Rhonda", and "Johnny B. Goode", and two others. (from Eric's setlist website)

Rocker and I may be the only ones to get the joke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pro7XpRpU04
Elvis was furious over this one.

Actually, on the evidence of recordings from that era, Lookin' At Tomorrow was *fantastic* live - totally rearranged, and sounding almost trip-hop - easily twenty years ahead of its time...

Mike's "TM Poem" is almost certainly "Rishikesh", which he recites on the Charles Lloyd album Waves.

Is Waves actually worth checking out?

Absolutely hilarious!

That would have been a seamless and brilliant concert transition from "Rishikesh"!
An appropriate follow-up to another "pain in the posterious" (see clip). ;)

Interesting that "Looking at Tomorrow" had an innovative and fresh arrangement live.
I would have expected no less from them in that brief, precious era.

BTW, off-topic, I'm assuming Elvis was furious because he was contractually obligated to do whatever was scripted, no matter how inane, no? Great to see the legendary and very funny
"Bride of Frankenstein" herself, Elsa Lanchester, facing down Elvis like that. >:(

Before I make a point, again I want to reiterate that I respect(ed) the Beach Boys for going with a bold and ambitious setlist in the early 1970's. But....

So many times, especially on this board, Endless Summer is "blamed" for the band going back to the oldies, and abandoning the progressive stance of their previous three or four albums. Not that I'm defending Endless Summer, but I think we're guilty of putting the horse before the cart.

I think the group's going with more oldies in their setlist started a few years BEFORE Endless Summer, and was more a product of the fans demanding them, than the success of Endless Summer dictating them. I have read some articles where Beach Boys concerts in the early 1970's had fans just sitting there, only to come alive and on their feet WHEN the old classics were played. I mean, the guys didn't have to be hit on the head to figure out what was happening. It's one thing to make your point and stand tall, but pride comes before a fall.

Again, I'm sorry to repeat myself - I really love ALL of the Beach Boys' music including the Surf's Up songs - but is that really what the people wanted to hear live? Is that what the guys really enjoyed playing? Or, as someone noted in an earlier post, did the guys feel obligated to play those songs to sell their current album? Or, was it a backlash to the criticism they might've been receiving from some cool journalists who thought they were washed up? And, finally, I wonder if the real personalities of the guys were more reflected in the 1962-66 period than the early 1970's period? Anyway...

I just don't think they could've survived taking that album cut or rarity route. The songs weren't THAT good. They weren't the Beatles or Bob Dylan who could've or would've been able to get away with it. Go with me on this for a minute....At concerts, say you had those chairs/seats with those electronic voting machines on the arms, and the fans could vote. Would they vote for "Barbara" or "Barbara Ann"? "Don't Go Near The Water" or "Surfin USA"? "Student Demonstration Time" or "Be True To Your School"? "Take A Load Off Your Feet" or "I Get Around"? Of course there's no contest. And it was that reason that led the guys to change the setlists. Endless Summer just became a reflection of those setlists.

There's that recent J.W.Guercio interview, about the turning point when the set list started to reflect what the audience really wanted. According to him, the switch was welcome by EVERYONE in the band. And he's a Dennis'n'Carl guy.

Did they ever play The Night Was Young or Roller Skating Child in concert?

I remember a concert in New York in 1976 where they played "Airplane" and there wasn't much audience reaction because it was a dud of a song, but there are plenty of 1970's gems that could have been tacked onto the concert songlist. 

I have a Love You Tour soundboard recording where they do a VERY sped up Roller Skating Child and a kick-ass Honkin Down The Highway.

There's also a Surfer Girl on there where Dennis messes up the words and Brian decised to, um....... vamp!

Well he was mad for two reasons. First because he detested the song, but more because he thought Col. Parker put the scene in to mock Elvis' interest in yoga and eastern philosophy.

While I wish Dennis would have sang more of his ballads, the 1973 sets are pretty well balanced at presenting the entire Beach Boys story. There was room for everything really, and I don't think it's "bad" to play hits. Still I do think the Beach Boys music in 1967-72 is every bit as good, as honest, as important as their early work. They had every right to be a modern band, and a performer has no obligation to be anything but what they are currently. Now the Beach Boys would not have pleased casual American fans, but as Al said people needed to be reeducated as to who the Beach Boys really were. So no I don't think it was a problem to balance the shows out, but I do think they eventually went too much in the direction of being crowd pleaser's.

1974 is the root of the problem, without a new album to promote obviously they had less to offer. Endless Summer gets partial blame because it wrecked the delicate balance between the old and new, and also cemented an antiquated image of the Beach Boys in the publics mind. So OK they had a hit album they are going to do a lot of it because of that. In 1974 they still played most of the stuff with real energy, but by 1984 or 1994? I will grant Beach Boys credit that through 1980 they did include mid period material and promote their new albums, but since much of the new stuff was retro the Beach Boys hardly came off as current. Through 1976 I don't think there were any concerts you could call bad, but from 1977-83 substance abuse constantly hurt the shows. By 1984 when that was all behind them the concerts were on auto pilot. The show I saw during the 1993 box set tour, as well as the Mike and Bruce orchestral performance in 2007, plus nearly all of Brian's sets proved to that the 1973 format can work. People did accept and were impressed with the later stuff, and because they got the hits too they were willing to listen. From 1981-97 the Beach Boys had only one tour that really showed off the true breadth of their talents and to me that is wrong.

Good conversation and debate, MBE. Enjoying it. I do, however, disagree with almost everything you wrote that I highlighted above.

I don't agree that the Beach Boys' music from 19767-72 is every bit as good, as honest, and as important as their early work. But, even if I did, that doesn't necessarily mean it will go over AS WELL LIVE. And I don't think it did. Competent yes, entertaining, not exactly. And that's what a live performance is - entertainment.

So Al thought the fans needed to be re-educated as to who the Beach Boys really were? Really? Who were they? This is just my opinion, but were the guys really like the music they were composing during that time frame (1967-72), or were they just trying to be different, non-surf & turf, and cool? With the exception of Dennis, when the guys - Mike, Bruce, Carl, soon Al, and even our beloved Brian, had the opportunity to do solo albums, what did they come up with? Totally uncool, non-different, slightly retro stuff. People criticize the group for "going back" with 15 Big Ones, MIU, KTSA, and SIP, but, maybe that's who they really were/are, not "Feel Flows" or "Student Demonstration Time".

And finally, what's wrong with being crowd pleasers? As opposed to....? ???
 
 

I enjoy the debate and I suppose where we differ most is down to personal taste. I feel the new music could and did make for great concerts. If something is good then it is entertainment. Sure a concert has a different dynamic then a studio, but take "Don't Go Near The Water" for instance. When the did it live it took on a clap along quality and they put a tougher rhythm put behind it.  Thus to my ears it made the transition from studio cut to live showcase perfectly. Charles Lloyd added  so much with his semi improvisational musicianship into the "Feel Flows and All This Is That" segments from 76-78. On the tapes and films I have heard or seen audiences applauded hard for him.

They were who they choice to be publically at any given time. Where the debate lies is whether it was natural or contrived. Rieley may have been encouraging a certain approach, but I think before he arrived the group was already headed down the path they took. Maybe it doesn't feel authentic to you, but it feels that way to me. What strikes me false are all those later albums you mentioned. Not every track of course, but I think they tried too hard to be the stereotyped "Beach Boys" and mostly it didn't fly. Like I said there is nothing wrong with pleasing the crowd, but when there isn't any risks taken the show looses all its challenge and creative purpose. Again what I stress is that there was a fine balance and the Beach Boys weren't particularly good about maintaining it. If they had to error on one side I would pick the esoteric every time and that goes for anybody I see. If I want to hear the record I'll stay home. I want to see something that I can't get at home.

Fair enough.

I can certainly see where you are coming from Sheriff but I have to disagree in some respects (particularly the bit I quoted). Just looking at Brian's compositions from that era, "Time To Get Alone", "This Whole World", "Busy Doin' Nothin'", "'Til I Die", "I Went To Sleep" I wouldn't say Brian was trying to be "cool" at all... I think he was writing how he felt at the time. I just don't see how that points relevant anyway Sheriff, I mean wasn't the whole surfing fad them not being themselves and trying to be "cool"? I think the music of that era (67-72) was them trying to do music that THEY wanted to do and was closer to who they really were.

mike, there's more of the whole Rieley steering them to write topical songs and play them live.  I think Brian didn't buy into that, as he never wrote a 'Student Demonstration Time'. I don't think the rest of the group particularly wanted (it's nigh-on impossible to say, obviously) to, i always got the feeling they were getting slightly desperate to sell records like they used to. and when that didn't go over, and the old stuff did, they went that way. Which is tres cynical of me, but that's how i see it
and that's really a spectactular setlist, regardless of the quality of the songs ::) - opening with Good Vibes?! into Don't Go Near The Water! People harp about on Brian's band being adventurous (and that's another thread ;) ), but that's just something else  :smokin

I've really been enjoying this thread, I love this era of the Beach Boys so it's great to see it receive such attention. With discussions about how the audience perceived the band during this time I decided to sit down and have a good listen to the Princeton show from Nov 13, '71. About 6 weeks later than the Carneigie Hall show which AGD posted and with a very similar set list:

Thanks to Eric's site:
1. GOOD VIBRATIONS
2. DON'T GO NEAR THE WATER
3. DARLIN'
4. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE
5. LONG PROMISED ROAD
6. STUDENT DEMONSTRATION TIME
7. DISNEY GIRLS (1957)
8. TAKE A LOAD OFF YOUR FEET
9. SLOOP JOHN B.
10. SURFIN' U.S.A.
11. IT'S ABOUT TIME
-Intermission-
12. COOL COOL WATER
13. LOOKIN' AT TOMORROW (A WELFARE SONG)
14. CAROLINE, NO
15. GOD ONLY KNOWS
16. SURF'S UP
17. COTTONFIELDS
18. HEROES AND VILLAINS
-Encore-
19. CALIFORNIA GIRLS
20. I GET AROUND
21. HELP ME, RHONDA (Carl on lead)
22. FUN, FUN, FUN

Any questions about the crowd enjoying the set list are immediately dispelled when you listen to their reactions. It was great to sit down for a couple of hours and listen, perhaps the biggest enjoyment I got out of this show took me completely by surprise - I'm no fan of Student Demonstration Time, infact I think its an abomination on the Surf's Up album, but darn they kick arse on this one live (a bit like the cool Summer In Paradise live recording from Wembly). There is a good mixture of old classics and new songs on this set list - it's also the show with the "Brian's in the music" comment. Really enjoyable.


ooohhhhh for some quality soundboards from this era ...




.... good lord, I just realised a did a post with the words "cool" and "Summer In Paradise" in the same sentence .... my credability is nada ....

Sheriff, you questioned whether the band was expressing their true selves in the 67-72 period-I think clearly you have to seperate members. One of the things that made the BBs interesting (and also maddening) was the differing opinions, interests, etc.  It's clear that in the 70s and into the 80s Carl did not want to be just a member of an oldies band.  I have interviews from 1967-83 where he consistently argues for playing new songs and mixing up the set lists.  I also have an interview from the 80s where Bruce opines that the peak for him was 1971 at Carnegie Hall and that he isn't that happy with their 80s shows.  Al also expressed some reservations with the direction things were heading.  I think that each member came to grips, in their own way, with the fact that by the mid 80s they were becoming an oldies act...but I think in the 70s they all (yes-including Mike) to some degree wanted to stay relevant and not just become an oldies band.  I think also that the band was pretty committed to the material on Holland for example-I mean the California Saga is close to Al's heart and The Trader was a fave of Carl's, etc...I don't think they were just trying to be hip (though I do believe Student Demonstration Time was an attempt to be hip) 

It's also interesting to note that during the early 70's, Mike was much more outspoken at shows than he is now. Listen to how he throws his two cents in after Dennis tells his Nixon joke at the Hartford 1973 show. Mike back then wasn't the "I'm picking up Bush vibrations", ultra conservative guy that he is now.

I always kind of liked SDT. I mean the words were dated within a year but it has a real kick to it. The one at that show is really really good and I noticed that when I first heard the LP boot of it. Don't Go Near The Water I think is great that night too. Surf's Up did pretty well for the group and I am sure a lot of the college crowd knew the album.

While it's true that repetition has rendered some of Mike's on-stage banter tiresome, would you really use the "ultra conservative" tag on Mike?

True, he questions what he sees as over-pretientiousness in pop music, but he's a pretty sophisticated guy himself, has spoken openly against the Irak war, and condemns anti-environmental policies. He's more of a liberal than the "Wouldn't it be nice" book or the Bush Sr.-friendly attitude of the early 80s leads us to think.

I don't think it has been mentioned yet but when the Beach Boys toured with Chicago they supposedly performed "Surf's Up" with Robert Lamm singing some of the vocals...have yet to hear this but would love to!

Regarding Mike's politics (from a few posts ago), I think he's a good example of the fact that there isn't a clear, single "left" and "right." We've created stereotypes for them, but they don't stand up in real life. From what I understand, Mike is probably conservative on some issues (economic) and more liberal on others (environmental concerns, anti-war). I don't see anything unusual about that. In fact, I'd argue that most people who match party lines on all the issues aren't doing their own thinking.

I did raise that question; maybe I didn't separate the members enough. In a couple posts above, mikeyj pointed out - correctly - that Brian was composing pretty much what was "him"; I agree with his assessment. I also stated that Dennis was true to his art, too. I guess my main concerns were with Mike, Carl, Al, and Bruce, and I also questioned the effectiveness of performing the new material LIVE, as opposed to the recordings, which I like, but don't think are as strong as most people do.

I didn't want to get back into this, but it doesn't take much....I was basically questioning whether Mike, Carl, Al, and Bruce were consciously trying to be hip, dispelling the candy-striped shirt image, and maybe, maybe went a bit too far on some of those early 70's songs. Is Mike "Be True To Your School" or "Student Demonstration"? Or both? Does Carl give a darn about Traders - or Goin' South for the winter? Why was Al singing about birds at his window? Hey, maybe those subjects really WERE THEM. Maybe it was just an honest phase they were going through as they were entering true adulthood. Maybe the drugs led them there. All this is that....

I based my OPINION on the music they subsequently recorded - not too far removed from those early/mid 70's songs - which were anything but hip, cool, or feel-flowy. I mean, they NEVER visited that style again, and they all had the opportunities. Carl said one thing but did another. Look at Al's "solo career". And Mike's. And Bruce's for that matter.

My final point, for now, is AGAIN, saying that most fans - about 99% - wanted something else, on record and in concert. Yeah, when you listen to those audience tapes, the audiences were enthusiastic, but, what were the numbers, and, could they sustain it? It didn't take Brian Wilson & Company very long to learn that lesson recently. Again, again, again, I LIKE those early 70's songs, even live; I'm just trying to look at it from the perspective of MOST Beach Boys' fans, average Beach Boys fans, not that they need it....

I don't think Al's music from that period is anything outside what seems to be his overriding character or preference. Melodic, highly produced, folk-influenced, relatively simple music. Birds, yeah, why not? Similarly, I don't know if Carl was out of character. If anything, I think Bruce was acting and Mike was maybe pushing a little too hard to be "hip" (with his "oldies but moldies" comments and drug references in various shows). But I think for the most part, that period was them then as much as surf-rock was them earlier.

Oh there were memorable times concerning this topic that came out during shows. In Saint Louis in 1971, Bruce said, "I'm getting really pissed off at you people who can't let us finish a song without yelling for some oldie." I was stunned. They certainly tried their best with the new material. But in the end, attendees wanted to hear what they were used to hearing on the radio over the years.

Although Mike Love in the past has shown public support for Reagan and Bush (both of them, I believe), supposedly he's gotten more liberal in recent years.  When I worked backstage at Chastain in 2004, I spent the day with their tour manager and he seemed to think Mike was a lot more liberal than he used to be.  (Bruce on the other hand is pretty conservative.)

I saw the second or maybe third stop on the original Beachago tour in May '75 at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas. Bobby Lamm did indeed sing 'Surf's Up' and did an okay job...except he jumped down an octave on the end of the "columnated ruins domino" line. Peter Cetera also did the lead vocal on 'Darlin' which was pretty good. That was my first BB show and also the day I met Al, Dennis, and Carl...and ended up interviewing Carl after the show.

Like Luther says, I think Mike is conservative on some issues and can be a little opportunistic when it comes to keeping his work in the public eye.

I think it has more to do with the simple fact that none of the Beach Boys other than Mike was a consistent lyricist. They relied on others to articulate their feelings into words. Now, just because Carl didn't get a history degree doesn't mean that he had no interest in it or anything outside of music. Same goes for all the other guys. Each lyricist had their niche and jack Riley was maybe a bit more hip than the Beach Boys and rubbed off well for a while. It's no big deal!