The Smiley Smile Message Board

Did anybody else notice that the original "Til I Die" clocked in at 2:29, but on some of the re-issues, including the 2fers, the ending was extended, and it then timed out at 2:41? And the reason behind this is....?

1. Does it bother anyone that maybe Brian's best song of the 70's was tinkered with?
2. Do you think Brian was consulted?
3. Do you think he would care anyway?
4. Do I need to get a life?

Probably No, No, No, and Yes... :police:

personally, i don't notice a difference...really, i mean extending it only makes that 'these things i'll be until i die' that much better...that just imo

If it bothers you, you can copy all your CD's with that song onto CDR and fade the song at the appropriate point.  :angel:  Has the original fade appeared anywhere on CD?

Yeah, on Ten Years Of Harmony and I think the boxed set. Do you think it was extended intentionally, or was it another one of those "mistakes" that got released before anybody noticed it?

They tinkered with Baseball? Bastards!

On the original 1/4" master tape for the SURF'S UP album, TIL I DIE has the long fade, exactly as on the later reissues.  Apparently, the decision to shorten the song was made when the album was mastered for LP release.  I don't know, however, if that edited version is on the surviving eq'd tape copies.

When the song was included on TEN YEARS OF HARMONY, and later, when the album was remastered for CD, they presumably went back to the first generation source material and simply used the complete version that was on the master reel.

Alan, I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere, but is it Brian I hear hitting those gorgeous high notes on Disney Girls? It sounds like him to me!

Now that's the kind of response I like to get, directly from an Honored Guest!

Hey, Luther, they did tinker with "Baseball", well kind of:

"Do You Like Worms" -------> "Roll Plymouth Rock
"I Love To Say Dada" -------> "In Blue Hawaii"
"They're Marching Along" ---> "Little Children"
......... and "Baseball" -------> "It's Trying To Say"                 

I think Bruce has gone on record saying that Brian is indeed singing some high parts in "Disney Girls," on the "church, bingo chances, and old time dances" section.

Does anyone else out there recall that?

it sure sounds like him in the best way!!!!

It's been ages since I've watched it, but I remember it mentioned on the Lost Hotel Tape.

Yep.  And I believe that's what is meant by Brian's "ghost singing" on the SU album...he would occasionally sing parts for the others, like a ghost writer writes someone else's book.  But it would just be a line here and there.  I think he's on the tag of "Don't Go Near The Water" as well.

Nope the ghost singing quote was in the 1973 record world interview. He said his voice sounded like a ghostly wail.

Speaking of Brian 'ghost singing': on "Good Vibrations", Brian sings "I hear the sound of a" and Carl picks it up again with "gentle word", right?

Yes that's right (at least I think it is)

Yup - he does that on both verses. There's a tape of Carl's vocal with Brian-shaped gaps right there.  ;D

I wonder why they would switch lead singers for half a sentence... It's not like Carl couldn't reach those high notes...

Carl said in an interview that he had trouble reaching those notes back then (which was why Brian had to sing it), but that his voice matured later on. Must have been quite a quick maturation process since he sang those parts live as early as... October 1966, wasn't it?

By the way, the na na na na naa, na na naaa part at the end; is that Brian as well?

Yeah I never understood that either...if he could hit the notes for the live performances, why not a few months earlier in the studio? 

And yeah the really high part at the end is Brian.  I wouldn't be surprised if the other high part at the end is him too, but I'm not sure about that.

I think it comes down to both Carl and Al (or maybe just Al) saying that they were both content to just play guitar and sing harmony up until Al had to do lead on Help Me Rhonda and Carl on Girl Don't Tell Me!

It's obvious that Carl stepped up to the plate in a big way, but by Good Vibrations, he'd only sang lead on one song, right? And Girl Don't Tell Me wasn't the most dynamic of a song, rage-wise.

Dennis had far more lead parts than Carl by that point, and at that time is was still the Brian and Mike show.

This just shows how quckly Carl matured and what a quick learner he was. Within just a small period of less than two years he was leading the band onstage and possesing the greatest voice of all-time (IMHO)

Don't forget a little tune called "God Only Knows"  8)

Major oops on my part!!!!!!!

I deserve to my my right to post revoked  :'(


range-wise though, God Only Knows aint quite Good Vibrations

Back to "Til I Die" for a second....Wikipedia (I know, not the most reliable source) states that Brian started "Til I Die" during the 20/20 sessions. What if Brian would've quickly finished it and included it on 20/20? That would've been a heck of an album. Still is pretty strong.....

True, though it is quite challenging to sing.  But you're right in that with God Only Knows, Carl didn't have to hit a note nearly as high as the B flat in Good Vibrations. 

It still doesn't make sense that he suddenly figured out how to hit it by October.

Remember Brian flew out to rehearse them the first time Good Vibrations was to be performed. He must of taught Carl the part then.

Carl had sung at least 4 leads ("Summer Time Blues" with Dave, "Louie Louie" with Mike, "Pom Pom Playgirl," and "All Dressed Up for School") by the time he got to GOK.

It wasn't a matter of teaching him the part...if that's all it was, it would have made more sense to teach him during the sessions and not force Brian to edit himself in. 

Aren't you forgetting one?   (Girl Don't . . . )

Sure it makes sense. In the studio Brian probably just figured it was easier to do it himself. Carl had to do it on stage so  Brian likely ran through it with him during the rehearsal until he nailed it.

Also "I Should Have Known Better / Tell Me Why" with Al, and part of "The Little Girl I Once Knew".

We did do a definitive vocal credits thread so people would stop thinking Carl's first lead is Girl Don't Tell Me.:D

I always thought it was Bruce singing the part in 1966.

I stand humbly corrected  ???

Not to mention the even higher G at the na na na section. But that Brian would've needed to teach Carl how to sing it? Either he could reach the note or he couldn't, I'd say.

That's my point...people can improve their range over time, certainly, but that fast?  Just doesn't add up to me.

Not forgetting, more like making a typo. I meant to type GDTM instead of GOK, which makes more sense.

Brian could hit the note with no problem. Carl strained at it (note I didn't say couldn't do it at all) thus Brian sang it on the record. Since this was a part Carl didn't feel good about, before it's live debut Brian probably worked on it with him until he felt more assured. With this practice Carl managed to do the part competently, not necessarily changing his range overnight. I don't offer this as more then a theory. Here's another... maybe Brian just liked the textural differences between himself and Carl and thought it was a cool way to arrange it.

I think this is a good example of just how selfless Brian could be. He wrote one of the most brilliant songs ever and worked on the arrangement for months until he got it exactly right. And instead of stepping into the spotlight to take full credit for it, he gave the lead to Carl, who couldn't even handle the entire song yet, and shared his writing credit with Mike, although the effort that he'd put into the song wasn't even 1% of what he had put into it himself...

Sounds reasonable. Both of your theories. :) To expand on the second (and make it slightly farfetched): I read in another thread here that Carl's and Brian's parts were recorded in different studios (Brian's being Gold Star iirc). Maybe Brian wanted different studio sounds on the different lines, but Carl wasn't there for the Gold Star session? Okay, I feel the farfetchedness as I'm typing...

I doubt they were done in different studios, since they were recording the final vocals on 8-track, and Columbia was the only studio with an 8-track at that time.

In that case, I doubt it too. :)

Thanks. I always like trying to figure out who did what part and how they were decided etc.

Gotta say... I think the extended version is the best, regardless if it was the original intent (same with California Girls, the ending of which is 'extended' depending on which mix you listen to on which compilation CD/album).

With such a great outro, I just don't want it to ever end...