The Smiley Smile Message Board

As many of us on this message board know, Brian Wilson's production techniques in the 66-67 era were way ahead of the times.  I am hoping to tap into the Smiley Smile brain trust and see if I can learn more.

Was there anyone else doing this kind of tape editing/splicing in the mid 60's?

Who actually did the tape splicing?  Was it Brian or someone like Chuck Britz?  It appears to me from hearing some "test mix" bootlegs that the different parts to be sliced together were "staged" up on one tape with gaps between them.  I assume then the little gaps were sliced out and the pieces were spliced back together.  If anyone has ever spliced tape they know that it is not the easiest thing to do, especially nailing the edit on-beat like in GV or H&V.  Whoever did it had some skills!

Did Brian come upon these techniques on his own during the GV sessions or did he have direct influences (other people doing the same thing around that time, Spector for instance)?  I have heard people say that he was influenced by the Musique concrète movement, but I am not convinced that Brian was exposed to that stuff.

Thanks for any and all input.

Was there anyone else?!? More like who wasn't.

Edgard Varese comes to mind, as he was experimenting with tape as early as the 1950s. Les Paul might have dabbled in it in the 40s. John Cage's early works dealt with tape splices and delays. I don't know how much, if at all, Brian was influenced by these folks. Certainly, Brian was possibly the first to do it in the mid-60s, but then you have to consider the Beatles, who were doing tape edits and splices as overdubs on Revolver and such.

The tape splicing was most likely done by Brian with Chuck at his side offering advice.

Is this actually how they did it? I have absolutely no clue about Brian's editing techniques and would also be fascinated to hear how the parts were 'spliced' together.

Tape editing was around for as long as magnetic tape had been around, but was primarily used for "practical" reasons rather than "artistic" reasons (though that depends on your definitions of practicality & art), to remove musical fluffs & mistakes, patching in a better section from a different take etc. I can't speak for orchestral/classical recordings, but I'm sure most early beat combos implemented this practice. A good example is She Loves You: the line "Pride can hurt you too, apologise to her" is clearly edited in from a different take. There, I've spoilt that song for you now, & you'll never be able to hear it again without hearing that edit! Sorry. There are plenty of other examples in the beatles catalogue, but I don't want to ruin their entire oeuvre for you...

As well as Stockhausen, Varese, Pierre Schaeffer and all the musique concrete crowd, I have to mention Joe Meek, who was doing all this is a pop context 7-8 years before Lennon "invented" backward tapes, and the BBC Radiophonic Workshop, who brought the most avant garde musical techniques into people's living rooms in the 50s & 60s.

I don't suppose any of this influenced Brian in the slightest, though I'd be surprised if he wasn't a fan of Telstar...

There's a difference between tape splicing/editing use in music to create new sounds/juxtapositions/electronic noise and what Brian was doing.  Brian was recording the music in pieces, and then assembling the pieces together to make a continuous song - so he'd record the verse, chorus, and bridge (and sometimes fade) as different sections (not having the band play the piece all the way through) and then assemble the complete song.  He did this with GV, Smile, Smiley Smile and wild Honey.  Often all three sections were recorded the same day at the same session (Child), other times he'd record all three sections only to rerecord one or more sections and then assemble a " master" (Smile's Wind Chimes, for example).  This all has very little to do with Varese and Cage or musique concrete and is completely antithetical to Spector's approach, which was always to have the band play the entire song through until he found a take he liked.

I doubt Brian would ever have touched the tape - the engineer would be doing the splicing, at Brian's direction.

There's the "GV" session where Brian says "we're recording this on two 4-tracks, so we only have to play it once" - of course, some took this to mean he was using an 8-track. Well, really...  :o

To me "why" is more interesting than "how."  I can think of several reasons why Brian switched to the modular recording process:

1. His attention span had decreased due to drugs (marijuana/hash/speed), so it was easier for him to concentrate on one section at a time and perfecting that than to go through the entire track and tweak it, as he did for Pet Sounds.

2. He wanted to keep his options open to add, subtract, and replace sections, as he had with Good Vibrations -  if further inspiration struck or he changed his mind after "living" with the tracks for a period of time - which he apparently did quite often during Smile.

3. Good Vibrations' success validated the approach and so he wanted to continue to use it to create other "epic" songs.

4. The technique was influenced by modern artists including pop artists who were into collages and the juxtaposition of widely dissimilar materials and images in their paintings.  It also tied into the pop art "cartoon consciousness" that Van Dyke has referenced as inspiration for his and Brian's collaboration.  Brian was translating some modern pop art painting techniques into music (and Van Dyke the same into lyrics).

4. With Smiley and Wild Honey where Brian and the boys were playing all or many of the instruments, it was easier to play it in short sections without making mistakes, especially when they were stoned (Smiley).

Frank Zappa was doing a lot of work with serious editing and splicing of tape.

I thought that the only reason GV was in sections was because he recorded however many different versions, and then he took the sections out of those that he liked and spliced them together. I didn't think that it was neccessarily done that way on purpose per se, it's just the way it worked out. Then, having some success with that concept, he started doing that with SMiLE.
I always kind of liked the thought that maybe he did things in sections so that he could make sure every note on every song was perfect-it's alot easier to make a bunch of thirty second pieces of music perfect than a two and a half minute piece perfect.

That idea would hold up better if every note were perfect.  ;)  But he was splicing tape before GV. Unless I'm mistaken, he was already doing it for instrumental tracks of verses and choruses of earlier songs just to simplify the process: once you have a good take of the verse, you can just copy and use it again for the background of the second verse.

He also did it for many of their a-capella tracks..."Auld Lang Sine" and "And Your Dream Comes True" are the two that immediately spring to mind.  Of course, those weren't really an artistic choice, but rather a primitive method of what they now call "comping." 

Thanks for some great insights here.  Maybe the true origins of the technique falls someplace in between comping and artistic choice (such as using the splicing for extreme juxtaposition).  It makes sense to me that the success of GV would have lead him to more creation in this mode.

Sounds like there were others splicing for artistic reasons, but no one did it like Brian did it!

One thing to add: wasn't the intro to You Still Believe In Me spliced onto the front of that song?  I always wondered if the into to California Girls was spliced onto the front of that song too.

You are correct about the intro to "You Still Believe In Me;" you can hear the separate sessions on the Pet Sounds box.

As for California Girls, if memory serves there was no edit there, they just played it straight through.

While some splicing and editing was involved for the a capella tracks mentioned, I can't recall any verse/chorus splicing before Good Vibrations - there were some fade/tag splicing though.  I'll have to look through my SOT's to refresh my memory on this.  Any examples of earlier verse/chorus splicing?

Indeed - Frank's Lumpy Gravy is in many ways what most fans imagined Smile to be - a collage of spoken comedy (Vegetables arguments, party reels, audio verite - the cab driver tape), sound effects (water recordings, basketball echo), avant garde classical/jazz music (Fire, I Wanna Be Around/Woodshop), and pop songs.

The idea of disparate song "sections" that musically don't have much to do with each other being juxtaposed was also used by others such as Love in Forever Changes and Your Mind and We Belong Together, and later even in CSN's Suite for Judy Blue Eyes.  Brian was really the first major pop/rock artist to do that.

Bicyclerider, thanks for the Zappa Lumpy Gravy comparison.  I had never made that connection, it makes sense.  Was there any contact or influence between Wilson and Zappa.  It seems like Zappa spent a lot of Freak Out doing Beach Boys parody.

There was one major connection between Zappa and Brian:  David Anderle.  He's thanked in the sleeve for Freak Out.

It wasn't verse/chorus splicing exactly, but I'm pretty sure the intro to "I'm So Young" was edited onto the finished track.  But you are correct in that Good Vibrations was the first time he did verse/chorus/bridge splicing.

So is Carol Kaye (who played for both). Zappa was definitely aware of what BW was doing, although I don't know if that went both ways.

I am a huge Zappa fan. I stumbled across Zappa after  reading a post on a beach boys yahoo group where someone was comparing We're Only In It For The Money to what Smile was aiming to be. I was like "I HAVE to hear this".

Zappa was splicing tapes all over the place, obscure cuts, intermissions of random talking, echo-chamber distortion noises as well as great pop songs, great rock songs and beautiful art music. I think the original Mothers of Invention albums would really appeal to the dedicated Smile fan. They are more in your face and ugly though. With a snarling sarcasm replacing the child-like innocence and wonderment of Brian's Smile.

"Call any vegetable... call it by name."  <- another Beach Boys parody?

Since The Mothers' "Absolutely Free" was released in May '67, Zappa wouldn't have heard of (or heard) "Vege-Tables" yet.  Unless maybe David Anderle snuck over one of Brian's acetates to him.  But the songs are so dissimilar anyway.

I wasn't sure which came first, but I wasn't necessarily referring to the song Vege-Tables, maybe Zappa had heard of Brian's fascination with Vegetables from an interview or something. Otherwise it could just be a reference to the hippie scene, tree-huggers loving their vegetables. Or not related to that scene at all.  ???

I didn't say the songs were similar musically... I took it as Zappa making fun of someone like Brian.

And if anyone is interested... here are a few other beach boys/zappa links...
- Gail Zappa was seeing BW at some stage
- Van Dyke was briefly a part of the Mothers of Invention (for about four months)
found these and more http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=14207&sid=1c5389fbd95b74d3cca6da407846309d (http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=14207&sid=1c5389fbd95b74d3cca6da407846309d) not sure if you will need to sign up to view that link though.

I think David Anderle tried once to make Brian listen to one of Zappa's early records. That should be Freak Out or Absolutely Free. Apparently Brian HATED it.

According to Zappa, "Call Any Vegetable" was written in the second week of April 1966 in Hawaii.

Isn't  the more fleshed out version of DYDW from the Vigotone boot a Zappa-related recording? The version of worms I speek of is distorted with a bunch more vox. Anyone?

No, he didn't employ that technique until "Good Vibrations"/SMiLE/Smiley Smile/Wild Honey.  And the track for "California Girls", which someone asked about further down the thread, was one complete recording, including the intro...which the main reason it took 44 takes to perfect.  The intro to "Im So Young" was indeed recorded seperately & edited on...as was the tag at the end.  Another thing Brian sometimes did was punch-ins of individual vocal lines...not often, but definitely on "Kiss Me Baby".

See www.beachboysarchives.com for more details...

Other connections:  Steve Desper mixed Zappa on the road for awhile.  And some members of The Boys' early '70s touring horn section (like Sal Marquez, I believe) were Zappa alumni. 

Is Sal Marquez the one playing the flute on "Forever" at that gig in New York in 71 (I think that's the one)?

That was Ant Bee, which was a group with some ex Mothers in it - not sure who though.

The use of "vegetables" was VERY different between Zappa and Brian - Zappa was using it as a derogatory term for straight America.  Brian . . . well he really LIKED vegetables, and was literal in his use of the term.

Nope, I'll take your word on it. I don't care nearly enough to research it. Thank gods for people like you who do, though!

Great info here.  I think what sets brian's tape editing technique apart was his use of it as a compositional devise, it became as useful as an instrument.  It was so fully Integrated into his process.  It allowed him to go where ever the hell he wanted to go within a song.  Look at Cabinessence, arguable the greatest example of the technique in practice.  The sudden switch between verse and chorus nearly gives you whiplash!  It goes to a whole other place sonically, and also literally goes to a different place in time--another day, maybe another studio, maybe some different players.  It is an effect that I believe wasn't fully achieved again until the two turntables and a mixer concept arrived in the 70's.  I'd say that even the guys down in Jamaica inventing dub didn't even fully realize the potential for editing the way Brian did in 66-67.  Theirs was more of a recycling of pre-existing recordings with new effects and vocals put on top.  I have always found it interesting how Brian used the tape echo feedback very similar to King Tubby or Lee Scratch Perry--that sudden escalating wash of tape feedback.  Heroes and Villains Cantina version and I'm In Great Shape are good examples.  Also, the Smiley Smile version of Wind Chimes has a pretty crazy dub-like noise in the middle of it.  You can hear Brian on a test mix of Vegetables adding a pretty dub-like reverb/echo to the last words of certain verses. 

I don't mean to imply that there is any influence between Brian and the guys in Jamaica, but it is interesting to see these post-modern techniques springing up in different places.  I can't wait to hear Zappa's Lumpy Gravy--I've got it coming in the mail.  It might get me changing my Smile mix!

Lumpy Gravy is brilliant. It and We're Only In It For the Money are absolutely wonderful. (And if you're interested in this heavy editing, you're going to get it.)

I think that the modular recording style was due to the spiritual/religious event that sparked SMiLE. It was after this trip that Brian started recoding in modular fashion.

It may have to do with Brian looking for meaning in a variety of events that needed further consideration. By jumping from thought to thought the modular form started to take shape.

Then, because such modular thoughts resulted in the ultimate religious experience, the modular form seemed surely capable of prompting such an experience for record listeners as well.

Um, what about "Good Vibrations", the definitive modular recording, which sessions preceded Smile by a good two months ? (I'm ignoring the February & April sessions as they were essentially non-modular)

Yes, I must agree.  Good Vibrations is the ultimate modular recording, and the best production by anyone in the 1960's in my opinion. GV trumps Cabinessence.  The rank of Brian's best modular recordings probably goes something like:

Good Vibrations
Cabinessence
Heroes and Villains (Cantina version)
Heroes and Villaiins (45 version)
Vegatables (box set version, even if the fade is tacked on)
Wind Chimes (box set version)
Do You Like Worms (box set version if you edit in Bicycle Rider lyrics)

Heroes and Villains part 2 would have been an amazing modular recording if it had been finished and released.  Same with the 1966 Surf's Up.

I"m not sure what your ranking is indicating - are you ranking them in terms of best modular songs, or in the order of MOST modular songs?  I'd rank the most modular songs as follows:

Heroes and Villains (cantina)
Good Vibrations
Heroes and Villains (single)
Vegetables (box set)
Wind Chimes (boxset)
Cabinessence
She's goin Bald
Child (Brian 3 minute Smile mono mix)
Wind Chimes (Smiley)
Little Pad
A Thing or Two
Here Comes the Night

Andrew said with regard my comment that the modular form was due to Brian's spiritual/religious experience;


"Good Vibrations" was post Brian's spiritual experience. Basically after Brian's religious experience came the "Heroes And Villains" trial sessions and then the modular "GV" sessions (good of you to point out the non-modular Pet Sounds takes).

I was told that the Pet Sounds promo film shot in the mountains was "Big Sur," which seems to tie the spiritual experience to late April, 1966.

I said;

I was talking to a big Beach Boys fan about the Pet Sounds promo movie shot in the woods. The fan said that the BB experts had determined that the visit to the mountains to shoot the promo film was what David Anderle was describing when he laid out Brian's "Big Sur" adventure to Paul Williams of Crawdaddy. Since Anderle's "Big Sur" description seems very likely to be Brian's ultimate religious/spiritual experience then it can be inferred that Brian's special event likely ocurred where the Pets Sounds promo film was shot, or there abouts.

A great list.  Was there any modular recording done for Friends, or was it over by then?  By the time of Wild Honey the modular style seems to become less obvious.  Sometimes I forget that those Wild Honey tracks were done in pieces too.

Brian was recording in a modular style until at least 1969...Ol' Man River, Walk On By come to mind. Maybe even Soulful Old Man Sunshine could be considered such.

The other way to arrive at the same conclusion (about the modular style happening after the religious/spiritual experience) is throughBrian's autobiography. The book states that Brian envisioned the elaborate production of "GV" during his ultimate LSD trip.

Pet Sounds wasn't recorded in the modular style (nor were it's "GV" sessions). In May of '66 the modular style happened.

I think you mean:

Another thing that gives off a strong hint that "GV" is part of Brian's new SPIRITUAL direction are his comments in the Tom Nolan article.

Brian lets it be known that "GV," while it still has old traditional style boy/girl lyrics (remember Van Dyke had declined the lyric job on "GV" but HE WAS ASKED),  is "definitely a start" in Brian's new spiritual direction.

I have come to understand the spiritual, at least in part, referred to the difference between social music (music for dancing such as most of the BBs output 61-65) and reverential music, music to sit and listen to, music to pray to, as Brian told andrew loog oldham.

I wonder how Heroes and Villains fit into his new spiritual direction?  Where is a good source to read the Tom Nolan article?  Is that in Look Listen Vibrate Smile?

The Tom Nolan article is in LLVS. It's the article w/the Zappa picture. It's called "Pop's New Frontier" or something like that from some Los Angeles Weekly newspaper, or something similar.

You said;

You're supposed to look, listen, vibrate, smile!

The "my children were raised.." bit, I swear, is about the "children of God"(Brian's expression), AKA "the beautiful people," AKA the "flower children," AKA freaks, hippies, etc. The vocal section entitled"soul becomes beautiful" gives one such an indication. The "suddenly rise" reference would then have to do with "sudden enlightenment" or the speed at which the change occurs.

Another way to realize that the modular "Good Vibrations" and SMiLE are both on the same wavelength (pun intended) is by viewing the Brian directed firehouse promo film for "GV." "GV" and SMiLE aren't separate events but rather co-current events judging by the film.

The way to connect the "GV" promo to the spiritual/religious theme of SMiLE is through Brian's personal LSD experiences. His 2nd trip (in the "autobiography") has Brian in an apartment seeing firemen falling down & getting hurt. In the "GV" promo film you can see the firemen Beach Boys split from the apartment running & doing it up in Keystone Cops style. Brian's spiritual 3rd LSD trip must have put a positive spin on the ego-death scene of Bri's 2nd trip (must likely via a positive ego-death outcome this time around). In any case it seems to all go together, "GV" & SMiLE.

Just my humble opinion, but I think you guys are maybe being a bit too nitty gritty with the spiritual interpretation of Brian's music.  I believe (and I'm pretty sure Brian thinks this way from things I've read) that sound, and especially music, is inherently spiritual. So maybe some of the lyrics have some references buried in them, but I think the idea that the Smile music is "spiritual music" (at least on things less overtly "religious", like Heroes and Villains) has more to do with Brian's relationship to the music and how it affects him(and other people).. not so much the content of the lyrics

No doubt.

While Brian does indeed often note the spiritual quality of his music overall, an accurate account of his history does show SMiLE to be when there was a spike in singular spiritual focus.

Read Brian's quotes from the SMiLE era & compare them to any other part of his career. Do it honestly & accurately. Remember that after the SMiLE era Brian was automatically spiritualized. Stuff that follows SMiLE automatically is going to have the spiritual bent due to Brian's heightened awareness of such things. Write down all religious/spiritual comments from day one & see if SMiLE doesn't seem to be when all this spiritual stuff went public in a big way.

Bill, I completely agree with you. Once Brian became 'spiritualized' it permeated nearly everything he did for the next few years.

Is there an article or part of a book that details Brian's spiritual realisations in detail? And how does this timescale fit in with Lake Arrowhead? I seem to recall a thread on here about Brian's whole vision for Smile coming together, or being realised, at Lake Arrowhead?

I think this subject is fascinating and underpins what makes Smile (and what followed) so special.

I only dimly remember a Lake Arrowhead story. Is that where they took all those photos with Brian in the yellow shirt and Denny with the blue and white one?

It is Derek Taylor that stated in a book he did in the seventies that the Pet Sounds promo film was done in the mountainous region above Lake Arrowhead. That's where the idea that Brian's spiritual trip could have happened came from.

I laid it all out on my webpage;
http://pages.cthome.net/tobelman/The_Out-Of-Sight_SMiLE_Site.html

If you compare David Anderle's description of Brian's "Big Sur" adventure to Lake Arrowhead you'll see that Anderle's description could apply to Lake Arrowhead as well. Anderle mentions that Brian got into the "snow" and I've often wondered if Big Sur had any snow in late April of '66. There's a good chance that Lake Arrowhead had snow.