The Smiley Smile Message Board

Does any one have information about some of these nagging questions I have:

Was the "Child is Father of the Man" ending part of the 1966 vision for the song, or was it an invention of the 1971 era?

Also, do we know who wrote the line that is sung over the "Child" chant?  "A children's song and he listens while they play..."  I have been told that Jack Rieley wrote the line.  Other sources say Van Dyke wrote it.  Thanks for any info!

Also, does Brian sing any of the new (or newly remembered) parts he came up with for the coda at the last minute?  The "A children's song, have you listened as they play?" part sounds like Al to me.  Is Brian in some of the new interweaving background parts?

I've been wondering this as well.

My guess is that he overdubbed some more "wailing"

According to Steve Desper (and he has repeated this many times) it IS Brian at doing the lead at the end. I don't think Jack had anything to do with the ending, Brian brought it down complete one day by total surprise. Either he wrotre it on the spot, or it was an old thing he and Van Dyke had considered.

When you isolate the individual tracks from the 5.1 mix on Endless Harmony, that "a children's song" part is damn near isolated and it's very clearly Al singing the part.

Desper says its Brian sped-up.

It sounds like Al, but Desper writes some meticulous notes on his recordings...so unless someone went into his stuff with whiteout and perfect handwriting, I dont know...

I've read that the BBs sometimes asked Desper to do this when they couldn't hit the high notes (record them singing high parts to a slowed-down track), but in the case of SU, the "a children's song" part is not in a high register.  We know from various recordings that Brian still had a sweet and high sound through '74, so why would he need (or want) to be sped up here?

Why would his voice be sped up on Caroline No? Its an aesthetic choice.

So is being put forth that Desper's notes list it as Brian? Thats the first I have heard that one. I always thought it was Al (but before that I thought it was Mike  :P).

I suppose I could buy it being Brian sped-up, although I haven't heard the isolated vocal.  My first guess has always been Al.

As for the end, I'm not certain but I think Brian just overdubbed his wailing vocal from the demo (obviously for the coda it had to be continued on longer).  There were plenty of other singers to do the other parts (including Van Dyke, allegedly), so I doubt Brian would have sang anything else.

We went here maybe a year ago: "a children's song..." is Alan. Alan says it's him, and also, the isolated vocal is clearly him, according to someone who'd know. Furthermore, the vocal on the album track is clearly Alan. No-one's memory is perfect.

If I had to guess, I would say that the "Child" reprisal at the end of "Surf's Up" was something that existed before 1971. I always thought it was Brian saying, "I don't want to work on this song, but if you're gonna do it regardless, then let's get the ending right."

Maybe it was an idea that Brian got for the ending very late in the process of working on Smile? Even if he had scrapped it, as an artist, new things are always popping into your head regardless of if you want them to or not. Or maybe it was just written that way but Brian just never sang the lead on the two versions of the song that we have.

And my ears say it's Al singing the, "A children's song..." but that's just me.

I may actually have something worthwhile to contribute to this conversation  :)

I was browsing the Desperpedia the other day and I noticed these references:

"One question: Re Surf's Up lyrics - on pp. 45 and 46 of the book, you reproduce a lyric sheet hand-written on orchestral manuscript paper by Carl, w/ additions by Brian. The Brian additions are the familiar "a children's song" lyrics. But there is a last line in Brian's hand that seems to read "as life is done all the children carry on." Do you recall if they tracked that lyric, too, or was it dropped?

I read your post over breakfast and was a very nice way to start a Friday. Thank you for your remarks. As to the tracking of the lyric, “as life is done all the children carry on.” This was recorded by Brian, and everyone liked it, except Brian. He later dropped the line. You’re the first to catch that one, and ask about it."

But what confuses me is that the original poster than asks: "Mr. Desper, Did Brian sing these lyrics as counterpoint to Al's or were they the same melody as "A children's song?" and Desper answers "Same Melody."

So it seems like the person asking the question is assuming Al sang the children's song bit, and then Desper is perhaps adding that Brian sang the original last line to the same melody.  It seems odd that Brian and Al would have switched off for the last line...perhaps Desper remembers Brian singing the earlier version, with the extra line, which was then eventually wiped, at Brian's insistance, and replaced by Al?

or am I just confused? 

on a related note, how about the Til I Die demo with the original lyrics Desper talks about?  Does that actually exist?  They both play into that sort of "Brian wiping his own brilliant vocals" story line which seems to occur frequently in this period. 

I wonder whether that vocal was wiped or replaced? Could Alan Boyd tell us whether the recording exists? Or maybe Mark Linett could tell us whether that might have been a bonus clip on the shelved 5.1 Surf's Up release (along with the a cappella/vox only track)?

Now I know about it, I'm burning to hear it!

Talking about the Surf's Up DVD-A, I've often wondered why this one got shelved eventually. Always thought it was quite a promising move for a non-Pet Sounds studio album to receive that kind of treatment.

Suspect it was down to the diminishing market for the DVD-A format. I had to search high and low to find a DVD player that could handle DVD-A. That said, I've DVD-As by The Doors & Neil Young, as well as Brian and The Beach Boys, so some top acts did align themselves with it in the search for audio quality.

Might be more chance now of a Blue-Ray release -  and interestingly I've found a Panasonic Blu-Ray player that can handle DVD-A.   If only it could also handle 48s and 33-and-a-thirds too, I'd be like a pig in muck!

48's?  ;D

Was thinking 45s, 33-and-a-thirds and 78s!  Brain fell over my fingers... Ooops...  :lol

That's what I read, I think on the Jack Reiley interviews on this very site. Though Reiley seems to imply that he(J.R.) wrote the lyrics to the tag. I know, I know, grains of salt.

I don't have any answers to the questions, but I think that piece at the end is one of the most beautiful pieces of music they played. 
Carly

A most under-rated version of the song IMO.  I happen to love Carl's vocal in part 1 and Brian's "demo" vocal on part 2.

I never thought "Battle Hymn..." was that bad, and I think it was played so fast not as a gag but because Brian was probably on coke. That's my guess.

I think almost everything they cut after 1980 is worse really. I don't know if it was cocaine, probably it was just done for a laugh.

I would think that Brian had some additional vocal parts in mind when he sang the single
descending notes of the Surf's Up tag in the demo and for the "Inside Pop" performance.
Whether or not there were lyrics or a lyrical concept is less certain, but for someone who writes songs in his sleep with harmony parts it would be almost inconceivable that he would've sung those single (beautiful, yearning) notes without having it be more fully fleshed-out in his head.

It's fascinating to consider that no lyrics may have existed before 1971, whether he, Van Dyke or Rieley
wrote them. That, of all SMiLE songs, (besides H&V) doesn't seem like one that wouldn't have
been fully conceived in '66-'67, at least vocally if not lyrically.

I trust AGD that it was Jardine singing the "Children's Song" part. Interesting about the extra lyric that was supposedly sang or even recorded and then vetoed by Brian. ???

It's a stinker!   Thank God that wasn't the first BBs' tune I ever heard, or I'd never have taken them seriously again.

But, y'know, if it was officially released, with outtakes, sessions etc, I'd probably buy it, as a completist (or do I mean complete idiot!  :-))

"BHOTR" was on an early lineup for Endless Harmony - until the compilers actually listened to it.  ;D

BHOTR is one of my favorite unreleased Beach Boy's recordings.  :)

Everybody sing along:

Glory glory hallehluyah, his truth is marching on!  :lol

Good God, That's awful (just heard it for the first time 30 seconds ago).

Trite, manic, but oddly catchy. Encapsulates some of the worst, most excessive aspects of 
the Beach Boys' sound. :P