The Smiley Smile Message Board

I woke up this morning with this in my head---so when Brian fired Murry during the "I Get Around" session in mid-1964 (most likely April), were Dennis and Carl still living at home? That couldn't have been an easy sitatuon to go home to if so.

Also, was Murry's outburst during the "Help Me Rhonda" session for "Ronda" or "Rhonda"?

Any help is appreciated

Interesting point - I'm looking at an AFM sheet dated 4/29/64, and according to that Carl's billing addy was the Hawthorne House, but not Dennis' (fyi, Brian's address was stated to be the Rovell house). However on a 6/22 date, Dennis' addy was 3701. Go figure.

Murry's outburst was at a session for the SECOND version of "HMR"...the single/Summer Days version...the one spelled "Rhonda", IIRC.

If you'd like a complete written transcript of this session tape...look no further than www.beachboysarchives.com...click the "Summer Days Outtakes" tab...

I always found it interesting that Brian could say, "We don't want you to be our manager anymore, and, you're fired, Dad." And that was that. Didn't Murry fight it, or was he already a defeated man? And, did all the guys have to sign some kind of legal agreement or something? Could you imagine the legal ramifications if something like that happened in 2009?

Er... Brian did a bit more than that - he pinned Murry to the wall and screamed at him that he was fired. I think even Murry took the hint.

And that's unusual for the Wilson's?

I think Dennis said it best in his radio interview with Fornatale:  Pete aked "How do you fire your dad?"  and Dennis replied that it was kinda like "Dad...I'll see ya later".  Like, this weekend, for dinner.  :)

Dennis moved out of the house in '62...first with Gary Usher, then he had an apartment with Mike in Manhattan Beach in '63(that didn't last long)...he was probably on his fourth or fifth residence by the time they fired Murry. Carl probably had his own place by then. They kept using the house as a business address for awhile but the family had all gone in different directions. Remember when Brian cracked up and Audree brought him to the house in late '64 there was no furniture. Murry and Audree split up in '65 I think.

I think this shows another side of Brian that often gets forgotten. Everyone says he was afraid of his dad, of Spector, of water... well, at least he had the guts to tell Murry. Wonder why he was the one who had to do it?  Of course he was their leader, but they were still a 5-piece band

With the deal of Sea of Tunes, where it was just bri and murry, i feel like he was the one to do it. Carl/Dennis too timmid to do it...Mike coulda helped out possibly. Al, well, when does Al ever win a fight?

Thanks for researching, AGD!
Thanks c-man, I started reading that essay just last week but ran out of time at the end of the Today! section, needless to say this is pretty fantastic stuff you did!
Thanks for the info Stebbins, can always rely on you for insightful, informative posts!
It was at least for Brian, he struck Carnie in anger after she stole one of his ciggys in the late 70s and immediately burst into tears, saying that he had sworn not to do that and not to be like his father. (Source: Catch a Wave) And I don't think Carl (intimidating as he may be at times) ever layed a finger on anyone; it speaks a lot that he was always respectful to Dennis because Dennis often took Carl's beatings from Murry. As Stebbins said, that's something that you don't forget...ever.

I get the impression that Brian was a confident young man until early in 1967.

I know there's a difference between competitiveness and physical aggressiveness, and I might be comparing apples and oranges, but is Brian pushing Murry totally out of character. In the previous couple of years, Brian ran track, played football and baseball, was extremely competitive with Phil Spector and The Beatles, and was sleeping with a 15 year-old girl. I mean, he could be as aggressive as the next guy couldn't he?

I think Brian had the clout to put Murry in his place....simple as that. He was the leader, he was the golden goose, he had the power. Someone up the thread said Dennis was "timid". Are you kidding? Dennis was fighting back physically with Murry when he was 12 or 13. Brian never did that until he was an adult. Dave Marks remembers Murry and Dennis fighting in their garage to the degree that Dave's dad had to run across the street to keep them from strangling each other...and Dennis was probably all of 15 or so when that happened. Brian held it in for a long time. By '64 he wasn't going to take it anymore. Carl was a pacifist, Mike is calculating, manipulating, but by all inside accounts a  non-confrontational type. Al...he had no power. If Dennis had pushed Murry against a wall, Murry would have pushed back and it would have just been yet another tangle between two violent guys who were always battling in one way or another. But when Brian drew the line with Murry, that line REALLY meant something. In 1964 No one was more important than Brian... and Murry found out the hard way.

OK, this theory may be very far-fetched... But there were two well-documented heated arguments in the studio between Murry and the Boys, during the "I Get Around" sessions and the "Help Me, Rhonda" sessions. And those were the group's first two #1 hits. Could it be possible that the group got some sort of "We'll show him!" attitude because of these arguments which resulted in two of their most successful singles? These songs certainly do seem to have more of a driving energy than pretty much every other song they recorded.

Good one, but weren't the backing tracks (at least with HMR) already in place, only lacking the group vocals? All Al could do at that point was to try to syncopate - or not.  :)

Take a listen to the infamous "Murry" Help Me Rhonda session.  Brian is more than holding his own weight there.  He's talking back to his Dad, and showing his frustration and annoyance VERY blatantly.  At least at that point in time, he doesn't sound like a guy who had any problem whatsoever in standing up to his father.  And to top it all off, he openly admits that a tape recorder is running, insinuating that the tape is rolling specifically for the purpose of having recorded proof of what a what a jerk Murry is.  This is either a guy who was never scared of his father in the first place, or a guy who had just about run out of patience with his father, and didn't particularly care about the consequences of standing up to him.

Definitely the latter.

But it's the group vocals that give these songs their drive. The first time I heard the "I Get Around" backing track I was amazed by how dull it sounded without the vocals.

I've always been confused by this, I think I read somewhere that the version on the GV box set (I'm assuming that's the backing track you've heard?) was not the one for the actual hit version but rather the Concert version or something like that? Maybe I'm way off on that one but that's what I recall reading.

I believe you're right. But since it was passed as the original backing track I figure it must be fairly similar to the original.

The backing track for I Get Around is incredible for 1964.

It's in itself a good and steady backing track, but I really was surprised to hear how little power, drive and energy it has compared to the complete version. IMO, 80% of that comes from the vocals.